PDA

View Full Version : Is playing WoC fun?



Panzerkanzler
07-03-2009, 23:03
Hi!

Thinking of starting my first WHFB army but I'm not sure which one. I really like the WoC models (the mounted lord and the lord on the juggernaught are pure sex) but their list just seems to be really, really inflexible and well...boring to play over time. Can people who have played them since the codex release please fill me in on how they feel about the longevity of the WoC fun-factor?

TheDarkDuke
07-03-2009, 23:07
hmmm not sure i loved playing with them when you could mix beasts demons and mortals and they were very fun, although fairly underpowered but the new list was just so bland and boring i couldnt even make a list for them any more. so for me i would say they are not fun, because well if you cant even make a list without being bored how likely is it your going to find them fun playing?

id say just proxy the army first if you have models with right bases, etc. and play a freind a couple times to find out since its all personal preference.

W0lf
07-03-2009, 23:38
Not in the least.

That is ofc my oppinion, i just cant enjoy WoC like i did HoC. That book had so many things/builds i never got the chance to try:(

Loki73
07-03-2009, 23:43
I have fun playing them but fun is subjective to the individual.

Do you like the miniatures?

Do you feel inspired to paint and convert chaos miniatures?

For me I like the chaos mortals miniatures. EOTG rule is ok it could be better to say the least. For the most part I like whats available to me in the lists. It would have been nice to have a greater deamon avail but oh well.

I picture my cav army burnanating villagers like in the Conan movie. That was my inspiration.

Laughingmonk
07-03-2009, 23:49
They don't look to boring to play, but then again, I don't play them. They have fast support units in their core section, such as maruader horsemen and chaos hounds, which I think gives the army a lot of flexibility.

They also have a lot of cool monsters, such as giants, trolls, and dragon ogres.

Some units also differ in every game.

Boring? I don't think so. Once I get my cavalry section rounded off nicely for my empire chaos is the next army I'm going to.

O&G'sRule
08-03-2009, 00:04
Depends on if you need shooting in your army really, but no there are alot of ways you can use the army, you can just do monsters, just cavalry, just marauders, just warriors or a mix of the lot. Then theres the differences you get by changing the god you serve. Its not boring at all

W0lf
08-03-2009, 00:11
Its boring because every army is the same; Heavy magic and lots of knights. Fun.

(assuming like me you powergame and tourny play)

Lordsaradain
08-03-2009, 00:29
Is playing fun? Who cares, Warriors of Chaos have the best miniature range avaliable in fantasy hands down, and that's what matters IMO.

W0lf
08-03-2009, 00:31
Again personal oppion.

I hate the marauder + knights models. Best model range is surely WE followed by DE.

Nicha11
08-03-2009, 00:32
WOC can be boring in that they are tactically limited.

No skrimishers and no flyers/ ranged makes Archaon a very dull boy:D

Loki73
08-03-2009, 04:28
Not dull at all, not boring. Lots of things i can do with the list besides magic heavy tourney players.

Ultimatley you have to paint/model them.

Axis
08-03-2009, 05:23
I have a lot of fun playing with them. Their list isn't as inflexible as most say (maybe for powergame/tourney but i play casually). In many ways they are not easy to use since you don't get skirmishers and much shooting.

But i have fun with them.

Tizz
08-03-2009, 06:18
I play an all mounted army and it's probably my favorite to play out of the three I own.

Nals
08-03-2009, 06:34
i would really have to say its a matter of opinion, personally i feel there play style is boring right now, its very much just move towards your opponent and i feel your tactics are limited although a cav army is pretty sweety. But if cool looking models is what you want, than hellz yeah they are sweet!

Ward.
08-03-2009, 06:52
That book had so many things/builds i never got the chance to try:(

Why would that be?

Seville
08-03-2009, 07:55
Is playing WoC fun? I think so. I really enjoy my WoC army a lot.

It's characterful and fun, and pretty strong, too. And the sky is the limit from a modelling and painting standpoint. We also have tons of options. Not only fun builds, but competetive builds as well.

Do it!

Da Boyzz
08-03-2009, 09:23
No.



They have given me a brain anurism playing them too much.. Bloody Knights and failing break tests after huge amounts of bad dice rolls.

Not a forgiving army, very one dimensional, very elitist whilst not being the best, low leadershop frustration.

Kerill
08-03-2009, 10:03
For a while I would say it would be good fun, but in the long run it's nowhere near as fun to play, design lists for or write fluff for as HOC even though its technically more powerful now.

chaospantz
08-03-2009, 10:14
I wouldn't call them borring just very limited on the type of troops you'll be using. You prety much have a couple different options for block troops, 3 different options for calvery, and last they have a couple different options for orge type troops. The thing is you have a wide amount of units but for the most part you have multiple units that will cover the same role during the game. You can change it up a little by throwing in a giant or a hell cannon but for the most part your looking at a beat stick group of charcters and some heavy armoured units.

Sam skywalker
08-03-2009, 13:04
WoC was my first fantasy army also... Started them when the new army book came out purely because of the look of the jugger lord... Since starting them I have had sooo much fun being beaten, being the noobie that I am. However, they are so much fun when you play and actually get into combat... I have muchas fun with mine... Playing all Khorne atm... Though I defo need a wizard or two...

I have also started a pure (ish) stegadon army, with more magic than you can wave a stick at... That is awesome also... However I prefer the fightyness of Chaos!

The Red Scourge
08-03-2009, 13:20
For an all-out slaughter blood fest, I play my WoC.

For a challenging tactical game, I play my WE.

For blocks of useless infantry, I play my VC.

They are all fun to play.

Panzerkanzler
08-03-2009, 16:10
Lots of good answers, thank you! I really like the WoC minis, especially the lord on jugger which is just omgwtfbbq-delicious. I'm just weighing the sexy chaos models against the fairly sexy lizardmen and dark elves ones. The two latter seem to have more options concerning tatics than WoC AND look pretty nice. Angry humans, cold dinos or mean elves...tough choice. Maybe I should just roll a d3 and let the dice decide for me. Well...I'm off pondering =)

Laser guided fanatic
08-03-2009, 16:24
I'm also plannong on starting WoC because of the great minis probably an all warrior/knight army.

Rubicon
08-03-2009, 18:45
I think the general perception that you are lower down the power scale adds to the enjoyment for me. If you don't go down the night heavy and maxxed out magic route, then you are presented with a particularly challenging army!

I have a marauder horde, with lots of men on foot and no lord level character. I play spawn and a hellcannon, and quite often no knights. It always suprises people when you deploy that list, since it wasn't the all-ahead full list they were expecting.


As a general rule of thumb, i think that it's a good idea to find out what the status quo is, and try to find an alternative list that works for you, that way you;ll enjoy the game, and offer your opponent something different that they weren't expecting!

mrtn
08-03-2009, 20:30
I'm having fun with them. There's still quite a few builds that I haven't tried that I'd like to.

Ultimo ninja
09-03-2009, 05:17
WOC is limited, no shooting except with the HC, no flying except with dics manticores and dragons, and no skirmishers except for spawns..


good thing I have a disc char, a hellcannon, and 2 spawns in my list!

WOC is the epitome of the half full/ half empty argument.

WOC has great magic, CC, and movement options!

A tzeentch exalted on a disc can massacre warmachines and harrass the rear! Spawns have 360 attacks and are unbreakable! The Hellcannon is not only a strong shot but a combat monster!

If those dont float your boat, you can have a monster army with throgg, A maruder horde backed by chariots, and warshrines, all cav lists that smash the enemy in turn 2, and my favourite, dragon lists that slaughter the foe like theyre tellitubbies!

ChaosVC
09-03-2009, 06:12
They are fun to play if you like tactical challenge aganist certain armies. Yes they will always be the attacker, and one dimensional, but still alright for me. Unless you spam hell cannon and wizards, there is no other way to make the enemy come to you.

Neckutter
09-03-2009, 06:16
WOC can be boring in that they are tactically limited.

No skrimishers and no flyers/ ranged makes Archaon a very dull boy:D

this couldnt be more true. WoC are quite boring to play. sure you win more often than not, and your models look amazing, and your models have insane conversion oppotunities.... but tactically unflexable and bland.

teafloy_the_damned
09-03-2009, 08:07
Not in the least.

That is ofc my oppinion, i just cant enjoy WoC like i did HoC. That book had so many things/builds i never got the chance to try:(

Quite agree!
In WOC, the basic warrior is so good, most my armies consist of, CW, chosen CW, more CW some marauder horsemen and oh yeh, more CW...

Very dull, very good, but very dull
Whispers: Sometimes I go crazy though and throw a chaos spawn in! :eek:

Kornath
09-03-2009, 08:13
With a little twist of your mind (shouldn't be hard for us chaos guys) you can make some funny lists. Competitive? Of course they are, even more so in the hands of a skilled general. I'm going to try out a Archaon + warriors/marauders army.

Matt1982
09-03-2009, 12:22
Mines a Marauder horde with a smattering of warriors, chariots/war shrines between blocks to support the charges and spawn on the wings to tarpit... not forgetting the obligatory warhounds out in front and if there's the points available some hellcannon behind the advancing wall to soften the enemy up. Heroes on discs to whizz about dealing with march blockers trying to slow down the advance... there's plenty of variety to my mind. Yes, I guess the optimal tourney list requires magic heavy and as many cavalry as you can squeeze in with a shoe horn but for normal games there's plenty of options for imaginative and interesting builds, Throgg's monster horde is one that will get touted a lot, with good reason :)

Arguleon-veq
09-03-2009, 14:27
They are my fave army to use, much more so than Hordes of Chaos was for me [although I only ever used 1 unit of none mortals in my hordes and that was a unit of Daemonette fast cav].

I have used;

14 Power Dice Lists with Hellcannon and a mix of Infantry and Cav [2 units of each].

Kholek Gunline with 2 Hellcannons and 3 big blocks of Marauders as Anvils. 3 Units of Axe Throwing Fast Cav to march block.

Dragon Cav list with lord on Dragon, Knights, Dragon Ogres, Hounds and a unit of Marauders to house my Scroll Caddies.

Throgg Monsterous Horde with Trolls, Ogres, Dragon Ogres and again, Marauder Caddide House.

All wins with the Dragon and Monsterous Horde lists, 2 Draws with my main magic list [but that has had the most games] and 1 Draw with the Kholek list. The rest are all Wins. I had fun using all 3 but mostly my Kholek and magic lists.

badgeraddict
09-03-2009, 15:02
Is playing fun? Who cares, Warriors of Chaos have the best miniature range avaliable in fantasy hands down, and that's what matters IMO.

I beg to differ! Dark Elves has the best range IMO. Executioners? Black Guard? :)

OT: I did not enjoy Chaos in its HOC days. Having read the book, it doesn't look like it would appeal to me. Plus every Chaos player moans about Chaos Warriors :wtf:

I'll stick with Bretonnia & Dark Elves thank you.

The Red Scourge
09-03-2009, 15:26
Its very wrong to say that WoC has no ranged attacks.

They may not have the strongest potential for a gunline, but they do very mobile and hard hitting firepower.

Take a marauder horseman, equip him with throwing axes and light armor. At 16 points you now have a S4 attack with a 22" range hitting on 4+ with a 5+ save. When I compare this to my 12 pt. WE Glade Guard and 24 pt. Glade Riders, I find WoC missile capabilites quite decent – nothing to make a gunline of, but good enough to harass and bait.

On top of this WoC has one of the hardest hitting stone throwers in the game, which traditional warmachine hunters will be hard pressed to take down – incidentally the only worthwhile WoC rare choice IMO.

So saying that WoC, has no shooting is quite wrong, they just have a different and specialized form of shooting.

@Badgeraddict: Your puny dark elves looks plain horrible compared to the wood elf army and the infantry of the VC ;)

Raverrn
09-03-2009, 15:28
WoC are my first 'real' Warhammer army - I have 1000 points of WE I dabbled in, but these are the guys that really pulled me in.

First off, let me say that these guys saying WoC aren't flexible probably haven't read the book all that well. There are tons of different army builds, from the 'in-combat-turn-two' cav army to the 'creeping doom' Chaos Warrior army. The one I've been having fun with is actually the creature army, with Trolls (who are utterly amazing) as core and Dragon Ogres as special it really makes opponents take pause.

Secondly, WoC kick some serious ass. I can pit Chaos Warriors, equipped right, against any Core or Special choice in the game and expect them to come out on top. Blood Knights? Executioners? Please. This extends, of course, to your characters - you can expect to kill anything stupid enough to accept your challenges.

Despite the boisterous nature of this post, they are somewhat of a finesse army - it does take maneuver and a solid plan to deal with artillery and magic, for example - but when it gets down to combat, as it always does, it helps to have the best.

badgeraddict
09-03-2009, 15:36
@Badgeraddict: Your puny dark elves looks plain horrible compared to the wood elf army and the infantry of the VC ;)

:eek: *shakes fist at The Red Scourge*

:) Each to his own! Actually I think Peasant Bowmen are the best models in warhammer fantasy.

EvC
09-03-2009, 15:37
I've had good fun using balanced lists. Games that are decided simply by rolling dice [See also: Arg's post above, kidding ;) ] don't bother me, so using more tactical styles of armies really interests me. Just last night I managed to beat an army of 6 Stegadons (Including three Engines of the Gods) using my Khornate force, and good fun it was too!

The Red Scourge
09-03-2009, 15:47
:eek: *shakes fist at The Red Scourge*

:) Each to his own! Actually I think Peasant Bowmen are the best models in warhammer fantasy.

Any GW model treated with a little love and dumped on a nice battlefield with some decent terrain will look his part.

I had a soft spot for brets once but I was into 40K at that moment, and spent all my cash on marines and harlequins especially an old 'pot de feu' model :)

chaosmaddie
09-03-2009, 17:42
WoC are a pretty decent army. I wouldn't call them over or un-powered, but pretty balanced overall (as balanced as a 1-sided army can be)

I think EoTG is a horrid "bonus" to the army, it is treated as a gift but with my playstyle it acts as a detriment. I liked to use my heros to help pump out some static CR for smaller units, but now a smart enemy can put a stopper to this and make your anvils much more vulnerable.

In a situation where you are against all takers, and your opponent doesn't know what army he is playing, they do fine. Against a few standard opponents who know you are bringing WoC, your games might get unpleasant.

The main reasoning being, as others have mentioned, you will have to bring the fight to the enemy...every....single....time. Shooty armies that know they are playing you will just be content to sit back and blast on you. Unless you are heavily vested in magic, you won't be able to respond with much and having to get 95% of your troops into close combat to do any damage means until you cross the no-mans-land in the middle, you are at a dis-advantage.

The Hellcannon, while a great model and a decent shooter when it hits is extremely expensive points wise for what you actually get. You are paying a good deal for its close-combat stats, which it may or may not even use. Rolling against a 9 leadership 6 turns a game averages out to 1-2 turns of it not firing and doing the compulsory move, which may still not put it in any sort of combat if you roll poorly.

Your only fliers will be carrying lords or heros, you have no scouts, you have no skirmishers, and 1 true shooting unit that requires a rare choice.

Unless you are playing with special characters, your army will mostly be leadership 8, and those lucky enough to be near a lord will be 9. Your magic items are insanely destructive but you don't have much that adds combat resolution or boosts PD or DD or gives any bonus to leadership. You will have to win your combats through kills, and don't count on your hero's to always be able to add their power to the mix, they may be stuck in a challenge.

WoC have some different looks (cavalry, foot slogger, monsters) but they are all the same basic theme....rush and crush, get to the other side and into combat as fast as possible. Same pants, just different pockets....but still the same pants.

A movement emphasized opponent, or one who march blocks and has lots of shooting or magic shutdown will pose problems, doubly so if they know you are coming (a good example would be high elves). Once you get your hands on them, they are a smear on the wall, but damn few might make it across the field, especially if they know you have to come to them to win, and refuse to move at all, while being set up in the very back of their deployment zone. Your foot troops wont see CC until turn 4, assuming they don't get march blocked.

Summary: If you like close combat troops, its fun. If you like anything else....its probably not going to be too fun, and I wouldn't recommend as your main army, but would be fun to bring to the table as a surprise for your normal opponent.

EvC
09-03-2009, 18:35
The EotG shouldn't really be so much of a pain for you chaosmaddie- Chaos unit champions are free to issue and accept challenges in place of their Lords (as confirmed in the FAQ). And if you didn't have a unit champion in the first place, then the enemy unit champion would have just challenged and forced you to accept with the killy character in the first place :)

lord mekri
09-03-2009, 19:14
Hi!

Thinking of starting my first WHFB army but I'm not sure which one. I really like the WoC models (the mounted lord and the lord on the juggernaught are pure sex) but their list just seems to be really, really inflexible and well...boring to play over time. Can people who have played them since the codex release please fill me in on how they feel about the longevity of the WoC fun-factor?

it depends on what you want out of an army. Mortal Chaos was my first army, and is still possilby my favorite army (at least as far as overall image). I never really mixed beasts and demons in previous editions so i dont have that sence of loss alot of warseer's express.
if you like the idea of huling barbarians running or riding across the file dto slaughter foes in ahand to hand, then this is a good army (they can do very little else, save pehaps magic). core fast cav and cheap hounds go a very long way to covering the fact that we have no fliers or skirmishers (whic i dont really think we need anyway).
something to keep in mind is if you want deversity in table top game terms, this army doesn have a lot.
but if you want deveristy in model choice (ie -exactly what particular combat monseter do you fancy today?) then this has loads of viable themes.

that being said, you will eventually want to get another, radically different army eventually, just to mix things up for yourself. any of the three elf armies would be ideal, or something like empire.

lord mekri
09-03-2009, 19:16
Its boring because every army is the same; Heavy magic and lots of knights. Fun.

(assuming like me you powergame and tourny play)

if you powergame or tourney play only, then yes wolf is right - magic and cav only.
then again, if thats the case - just play demons or Vampires and call it a day.

EvC
09-03-2009, 19:23
lol, almost true.

The alternative is to play a style of army that isn't heavy magic and lots of knights, and through experience and skill become really good at that army, so that you can win even without all the tricks and toys. I know a couple of people who did really well with Warriors-heavy armies in 6th edition, and now that Warriors are better and cheaper, the armies can still do well. Of course you still pretty much have to have at least 2 units of Knights to do well, but you don't have to just pray for Infernal Gateway to win every time.

Of course powergamers play like they do because they're not so good at the game in the first place, so will never put the time and effort into becoming the kind of general that can win with a list more focused on balance.

OldMaster
09-03-2009, 19:25
Play them, and you won't regret it.

Especially as you're a Tau player ;)
WoC will now let you excel in that phase of the turn your perhaps feared most.

I find WoC not in the least dull. You've got models that rock in both stats and appearance, you have four different gods to choose from (making your troops really really really customisable, both from rule as from modelling point of view) and there are still many cool lists you could try out, a bunch of which are competitive.
One of the nicest is, no matter what people think of it, the EotG army. Valkia, blocks of Chosen, Warshrines and perhaps even Trolls make you roll very often and rolling on a list with boosts is insanely fun.

Mind you though, I'm a fan, so perhaps I'm cutting down on negative things =P


Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about the army, I'll be really glad to help.

Angelust
09-03-2009, 19:35
Basically:

If you're powergaming: look to the big three- Daemons, VC, DE. WoC won't come close when they play to win.

If you're not: it's a fantastic army with a lot of diversity in models and themes, though it is a close combat oriented army with some magic options. You may not get the tactical flexibility of elves or lizardmen, etc, but it is very open when it comes to the hobby aspect. Whatever floats your boat really.

MarcoPollo
10-03-2009, 01:46
WoC is my favorite army right now. I love the faint-flee tactics and this army is specially designed for this.

Plus when I think of warhammer bad guys, I think of Warriors of chaos first and foremost.

The models are pretty decent, and enough variety to hold my imagination (tactically and for modelling purposes).

For me, I don't want to powergame too much but prefer to bring solid lists that aren't too abusive. And I can do that just fine with WoC.

Volker the Mad Fiddler
10-03-2009, 01:55
Again personal oppion.

I hate the marauder + knights models. Best model range is surely WE followed by DE.

I would argue for the Ogre Kingdoms. I just like that Ogres now have some character and are distinct from traditional fantasy Ogres.

W0lf
10-03-2009, 02:04
Of course you still pretty much have to have at least 2 units of Knights to do well, but you don't have to just pray for Infernal Gateway to win every time.

Of course powergamers play like they do because they're not so good at the game in the first place, so will never put the time and effort into becoming the kind of general that can win with a list more focused on balance.

Exactly. Thats because the 2 units of Knights are carrying your army. Hell gateway has never won me games. Buboes and pandi are where the real powers at.

Oh and saying powergamers arnt good at fantasy is highly ignorant and flat out dumb. Im more the happy to play with a balanced list vs the plethora of tourny lists in my gaming group, but why disadvantage myself? Also powergaming is a diffrent way to play for those that like to push the gaming experience. Plus most good players like to test themselves at tournys which is where power-gaming stems from.

In my experience people who put their time into painting/fluff tend to be crap generals, they care more for the look/feel of the game as opposed to pushing the mechanics. Likewise those that cry cheese or moan about power-gamers are usually bad players.

Axis
10-03-2009, 02:16
but why disadvantage myself?

Why disadvantage yourself? (i.e. run a non-powergame list). Well it just might turn out to be fun (what this thread is about).

Of course if you are the only one running fluffy lists and everyone else is running powergame lists then essentially you are playing different versions of warhammer. However, it seems to me that the number of powergame players on the internet is very much disproportionate to their actual numbers in the streets.

If you want to powergame then fine maybe w0lf's opinion might be 100% right. If not then warriors are very fun. In general the fun-ness of an army is what you make it. I.e. you only get out what you put in.

The Red Scourge
10-03-2009, 09:31
In my experience people who put their time into painting/fluff tend to be crap generals, they care more for the look/feel of the game as opposed to pushing the mechanics. Likewise those that cry cheese or moan about power-gamers are usually bad players.

How about those who whine about their armies not being competitive? I believe, I've seen quite a few of those comments from you W0lf ;)

And to your question on "Why disadvantage yourself?". My answer is; just to encourage variety and have some fun while actually playing the game. List-/mathhammering might be fun on a theoretical level, but lets keep it there, WFB haven't got as good and balanced a gameplay as chess, so you've got to help it a bit to capitalize on its sole strength: variety.

BTW: In my experience people with shoddily (un)painted armies are most often the worst of generals, as they have only a minimum of interest in the game.

Kerill
10-03-2009, 09:36
How about those who whine about their armies not being competitive? I believe, I've seen quite a few of those comments from you W0lf ;)

Don't think I've ever seen him whine about his army being uncompetative. Mourn the loss of the way HOC played, its variety, and the loss of Tzeentch fighter mages- yes.

The Red Scourge
10-03-2009, 12:09
Darn! Then I give my apoligies for W0lf. There seems to be a bit too many 'wolves' in this forum for me to keep track on :P

W0lf
10-03-2009, 13:08
Thanks kerill.

Ive said countless times WoC is more powerful then HoC but i love it less.

Oh and though all my winning i do love my chaos deep down, else i wouldnt care and just play any other army :)

Tae
10-03-2009, 13:20
I personally like my WoC, it allows me to take 3 massively different armies (hell, I could take 4, but I personally think Khorne blows chunks) using the same models.

This isn't like my DE list which are 'different armies' in terms of different magic items or heros/sorceresses, this is three completely different armies in terms of play style.

Admitedly I'm not so keen on the whole 'pantheon' of Chaos Gods army building which has snuck in to both DoC and WoC, but as I don't plan on ever playing any WFB tournaments (mixed DoC armies being one of the main reasons why) I can quite happily stick to my fluffy mono-god lists.

W0lf
10-03-2009, 13:33
i hope by 4 massivly diffrent armies you dont mean mono god?

Because they are anything but 'massivly diffrent'.

Tae
10-03-2009, 13:44
i hope by 4 massivly diffrent armies you dont mean mono god?

Because they are anything but 'massivly diffrent'.

Not entirely. Whilst they are all mono-god (well, 3 of the gods anyway, dirty dirty Khorne), the way I play them all is completely different as well.

The Tzeentch one sits back and just spams magic all day long.

The Slaanesh one bombs is forward and tries to smack the snot out of stuff.

The Nurgle one bumbles forward doing a bit of magic spam and a bit of hitty.

Is it as different as say a Knight heavy vs a Marauder heavy army? Hell no. But is it more of a difference then if I were to swap the magic items around on my DE characters? Hell yes.

EvC
10-03-2009, 14:36
Exactly. Thats because the 2 units of Knights are carrying your army. Hell gateway has never won me games. Buboes and pandi are where the real powers at.

True to some extent, the Knights are the real hammers of the army- along with my hero on chariot and Lord on jugger.


Oh and saying powergamers arnt good at fantasy is highly ignorant and flat out dumb. Im more the happy to play with a balanced list vs the plethora of tourny lists in my gaming group, but why disadvantage myself? Also powergaming is a diffrent way to play for those that like to push the gaming experience. Plus most good players like to test themselves at tournys which is where power-gaming stems from.

Mostly powergamers aren't good at fantasy, in my experience. There is a minority that are so good they could win with balanced lists vs power lists, but the majority of people take the power lists because they know they wouldn't stand a chance otherwise. It's like if you're playing some other game, and you have the option to give yourself a bonus before the game to handicap the opponent- if you're a good player, you don't think you need the handicap, and although if you use it you'll be even more likely to win, only a bad player needs to use the handicap. NB we may have differing definitions of what counts as being a powergamer, but I'm thinking of the kind of person who takes Teclis/ Star Dragon/ maxed Daemons/ 15 power dice VC/ gimmick Dark Elves. To be honest, when you play those kinds of lists you often become so reliant on your crutches that when you try and use a regular balanced army you find it difficult. One of my mates spent the last year using bent Daemon and Dark Elf armies (Occasionally dipping into 2nd Gen Slann lists, War Altar/ Steam Tank Empire lists and Star Dragon lists), and now has absolutely no idea how to use an infantry unit, refusing to take it unless it's ASF, ItP and Stubborn. Not saying every "powergamer" is like that, and if your opponents all take the stongest lists then there's no problem with taking a similar one yourself...

W0lf
10-03-2009, 18:11
NB we may have differing definitions of what counts as being a powergamer, but I'm thinking of the kind of person who takes Teclis/ Star Dragon/ maxed Daemons/ 15 power dice VC/ gimmick Dark Elves.

Played vs them all. Star dragon isnt that bad, maxed daemons is ofc horrific and power dice/DE are easily beatable by a strong all comers list. I dont think id lose to VC/Dark elves if my opponent wasnt a good general tbh.


Not saying every "powergamer" is like that, and if your opponents all take the stongest lists then there's no problem with taking a similar one yourself...

I dont play any of the above but my friends do. Add to that list Thorek gunline, slaan +2 EoTG skink spam and SAD skaven and you pretty much have my gaming group ^^. I play WoC almost exclusivly against that lot and go ~ 4/1. Now can you really blame me for maximising my lists? Plus id like to think im a very competant general. I personally have met about 3 people i consider better players then me in my local area + group. Outside of tournys ofc but its hard to judge on 1 game with cheese lists :P

EDIT: Oh and if i find im playing a new player or a heavily themed but weak army id tone down my army. No games fun unless its a challenge imo.

Kerill
10-03-2009, 19:17
@W0lf, you're welcome, we share much the same opinion of the new book I think.

EvC
10-03-2009, 19:19
Well, we're in agreement. Sounds like you're the minority who's a good player, and your opponents are the majority. Thorek gunlines, SAD, double Engine + 2nd Gen, blech...

Sarah S
10-03-2009, 19:30
I'd love to play there.

Talk about making you a better general.