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nickdahkwik
08-03-2009, 06:44
Lizardmen have a Carnosaur which does the "Ultimate Predator" rule which once a wound is inflicted its multiplied into D3 wounds. how does this affect units does it at all or only for characters and other things with more than 1 wound on profile same for D6 with empire cannons do i do D6 wounds i don't think i would but the D3 above sounds different?

:eek:

havoc626
08-03-2009, 07:11
Against 1 wound models, the rule has no affect what-so-ever. But when you verse multi-wound models, then it starts to have an affect on what the outcome of the fight would be.

ZoomDog
08-03-2009, 07:13
Against 1 wound models, the rule has no affect what-so-ever.
Except for challenges. If you do a wound on a 1 wound character in a challenge, you still roll the D3 to see how many wounds it inflicts for combat resolution.

Doing 3 wounds on a 1 wound unit leader tends to shake the troops up a bit. :P

gaiaterra
08-03-2009, 08:34
Would you not roll the D3 for each wound on a unit to find out how many wounds you actualy score so you can work out you combat res properly, as it is possible to kill 3 individual models but cause 9 wounds, giving you a large combat res bonus.

havoc626
08-03-2009, 08:40
Would you not roll the D3 for each wound on a unit to find out how many wounds you actualy score so you can work out you combat res properly, as it is possible to kill 3 individual models but cause 9 wounds, giving you a large combat res bonus.

In short, no. Think about it, I don't think it will change a unit's shock whether Swordsman Bob fell to a Night Gobbo's spear or got sat on by the Great Unclean One, Bob's still dead.

Griefbringer
08-03-2009, 09:18
Would you not roll the D3 for each wound on a unit to find out how many wounds you actualy score so you can work out you combat res properly, as it is possible to kill 3 individual models but cause 9 wounds, giving you a large combat res bonus.

Ordinarily, you cannot cause more wounds on a model than said model has.

The only case where you get bonus for such extra wounds is overkill bonus for challenges.

Neknoh
08-03-2009, 09:37
Indeed.

Against 1 wound models, it works like this:

Outside of Challenge: don't multiply it, there is no point.
Inside challenge: multiply unsaved wounds, and once you reach a total of 6 (1 wound +5 overkill), you disregard the rest of them.

Necromancy Black
08-03-2009, 13:08
Ok, lets explain it this way...

Multiwound weapons still only do a certain number of hits. If they wound, the number of wounds to each model hit is multipled by the dice roll. However, the rules state that you can not do more wounds to a model then the number of wounds it has remaining, and that excess wounds above this are ignored.

Once you work out the total number of wounds, thats how many wounds you remove from the unit.

So against one wound models you can indeed froll D3 for each, but you can never do more then a single wound, so theirs no point rolling, it's just one wound.

Challanges, however, let you have overkill so in this case you will roll as you are allowed to do excess wounds. This was covered in one of the BRB FAQ's.

ZigZagMan
08-03-2009, 18:33
What I am unclear about is, say you hit a unit of Ogres. Do you roll the wounds one hit at a time? or roll them all together regardless of each model?
Example:
3 wounding hits on the ogres do you:
roll d3 and if you roll less then 3 roll another d3 till all three wounds on the first ogre are gone, potentially losing wounds caused in the process (a 2 plus 3, but the model only has 3 wounds, so 2 are lost)
OR
rol 3d3 and apply then to the unit as a whole?

DirtJumper
08-03-2009, 19:32
What I am unclear about is, say you hit a unit of Ogres. Do you roll the wounds one hit at a time? or roll them all together regardless of each model?
Example:
3 wounding hits on the ogres do you:
roll d3 and if you roll less then 3 roll another d3 till all three wounds on the first ogre are gone, potentially losing wounds caused in the process (a 2 plus 3, but the model only has 3 wounds, so 2 are lost)
OR
rol 3d3 and apply then to the unit as a whole?

I'm going to assume that the rule on the Caronaur works like all of the other "d3/d6 wound" multiplyers and say that you first roll to wound the targets, then each unsaved wound becomes d3 wounds.

@ Necromancy Black- Would you mind sharing what page of the rulebooks states that you can't cause more than 1 wound on a 1-wound model? I coulden't find it.

narrativium
08-03-2009, 19:34
No.

Let's run with a D3 weapon against models with 2 wounds (Flesh Hounds, say). You roll to hit, roll and wound as normal. Then each wound multiplies into D3. Every roll of a 1 causes 1 wound. Every roll of a 2 causes 2 wounds. Every roll of a 3 is reduced to 2 because Flesh Hounds have 2 wounds. So if you caused three unsaved wounds and multiplied them by D3 and rolled a 1, 2 and 3, you caused 5 wounds. At no point do you worry about whether any individual enemy model has accumulated wounds or not.

stripsteak
08-03-2009, 20:35
I'm going to assume that the rule on the Caronaur works like all of the other "d3/d6 wound" multiplyers and say that you first roll to wound the targets, then each unsaved wound becomes d3 wounds.

@ Necromancy Black- Would you mind sharing what page of the rulebooks states that you can't cause more than 1 wound on a 1-wound model? I coulden't find it.

it's on page 31, explaijn how you remove casualties with single wounds. and no where in that does it allow you to expand the wounds. There isnt' a rule that says you can't cause more than 1 wound to a one wound model. but there isn't a rule that lets you do more than one (barring challenges which have their own rules for wound distribution in relation to overkill).

same page they explain how you wound multi wound models, and in there allow you to expand multiwounding weapons to do their full damage. but this also shows us that even when expanding wounds you can't do more woudns than the model has on it's starting propfile. ie an ogre with 3w will never suffer more than thateven from a cannon. so taking this back to the 1 wound models they would never take more than 1 wound anyway even if you rolled for 6 wounds. hence why they don't even allow you to roll the extra wounds for a single wound model.

narrativium has it right


What I am unclear about is, say you hit a unit of Ogres. Do you roll the wounds one hit at a time? or roll them all together regardless of each model?
Example:
3 wounding hits on the ogres do you:
roll d3 and if you roll less then 3 roll another d3 till all three wounds on the first ogre are gone, potentially losing wounds caused in the process (a 2 plus 3, but the model only has 3 wounds, so 2 are lost)
OR
rol 3d3 and apply then to the unit as a whole?

you roll them all at once. but each can only expand to a maximum of 3. so in the case of the carnosaur nothing is lost, since they can only do 1-3 wounds anyway. you would roll all 3 figure out how many total wounds you did and remove whole models first. so if you rolled 2 6 6 doing 1+3+3 wounds. you would do a total of 7 wounds you would remove 2 ogres, and theu nit owuld have 1 wound recorded for it.

Sheena Easton
08-03-2009, 21:40
In short, no. Think about it, I don't think it will change a unit's shock whether Swordsman Bob fell to a Night Gobbo's spear or got sat on by the Great Unclean One, Bob's still dead.

Unless Bob being sat on by GUO has a similarly hilarious result as that video fo the elephant sitting on some bloke that gets stuck up is backside...

Necromancy Black
08-03-2009, 21:56
No.

Let's run with a D3 weapon against models with 2 wounds (Flesh Hounds, say). You roll to hit, roll and wound as normal. Then each wound multiplies into D3. Every roll of a 1 causes 1 wound. Every roll of a 2 causes 2 wounds. Every roll of a 3 is reduced to 2 because Flesh Hounds have 2 wounds. So if you caused three unsaved wounds and multiplied them by D3 and rolled a 1, 2 and 3, you caused 5 wounds. At no point do you worry about whether any individual enemy model has accumulated wounds or not.


Your right, you ignore how many wounds a model has and only care about the starting number of models.

As stated before you can find the rule saying models with 1 wound can only suffer one wounds on page 31.