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dreameater
08-03-2009, 14:16
okay I am new to the whole hobby and was wondering if you guys could give me the orge lowdowm thanks.
One more thing can you add hunters to units with his sabertusks

Mozzamanx
08-03-2009, 14:22
The good:

- Extremely high stats on most troops, with even the grunts packing multiple attacks and wounds
- Fast moving
- Extremely cheap fodder units
- Cause Fear
- Very cheap to build an army, in terms of $. The battleforce can make a very nice 1000pt army with 2 minor conversions.


The bad:

- You pay for those stats, with basic infantry costing almost 40pts each. Other armies pay around 8, for a comparison.
- Relatively low WS means your Ogres will miss a lot
- Poor armour saves
- Relatively low leadership makes you vulnerable to panic or breaking


The interesting:

- Your units gain impact hits over a long charge, meaning you can trample models into the dirt before they attack. This can add alot to a fight, though it is unreliable.
- For best results, include a mix of Gnoblars and Ogres. Gnoblars are ungodly cheap, with a unit costing as much as a single Ogre.

OldMan
08-03-2009, 16:25
Ogre Kingdoms are an extremally wea.. err, extremally challenging army to win with. :)
It is also quite a funny army, with sense of humor similar to this in O&G.

If you like that kind of not fully serious army, and you are up to the chalange of leading army from the bottom of rankings than OG are for you.

For the rest, Mozzamanx have given a very good review.

Avian
08-03-2009, 16:36
May I suggest my Ogre Kingdoms Tactics page (http://folk.ntnu.no/tarjeia/avian/subpage.php?s=index_ogre_tactics)?

selone
08-03-2009, 16:42
You just did ;)
I have a soft spot for ogre's as they're a pretty unique army but unique does not necessarily= powerful.

dannyfave
08-03-2009, 17:47
My buddy Jim chose Ogres as his first army, he is now a better general for that. Learning to play by using Ogres is challengingbut realy teaches you how to use redirecting tactics and how to protect fairly fragile units.

Stuffburger
08-03-2009, 20:33
Also with ogres most of the army can fight as Dogs of war so if you change your mind you can always use them in most other armies as rare choices.

nosferatu1001
08-03-2009, 20:52
They also have one of the best shock troops in the game - Rhinox riders.

Yes, extremely expensive (FW) however awesome, awesome models and very tough. Also tournament legal almost everywhere, in recognition of the weakness of the army.

Fairly competitive (as in, you have a chance) tend to be 3 butcher and tyrant at 2k. Mix of maneaters and ironguts, most people play min bulls as they arent fantastic for their points

Drongol
09-03-2009, 11:35
Okay, I'm going to be honest. I see a lot of soft-shoeing around this issue and honestly, it's a little annoying.

Ogre Kingdoms is not a competitive book. It was far from competitive when it was released and it's only got worse from there. Fully half of the units in the book are virtually worthless, so you wind up with very cookie-cutter-ish lists that don't do much for the average player.

A typically 2000-2250 OK list will have a Tyrant, 3 Butchers, 2 units of Bulls, 2 units of Gnoblar Fighters, 1 unit of Gnoblar Trappers, and then the rest of the points are spent on Gorgers (assuming Rhinox Rhiders are not allowed), Yhetees or Leadbelchers, and lots and lots of Ironguts.

Occasionally you'll come across someone who thinks that an Ogre Deathstar can work and, as such, will take fighty characters and stick them in a smallish unit of Maneaters, making every shooty army rejoice as it scoops up the victory points.

OK can be a lot of fun to play--that's why they're my primary Fantasy army--but don't expect them to be competitive at all. If you win, it is usually due to a mixture of skill and good fortune as opposed to the overwhelming power of your list.

Drongol

the_raptor
09-03-2009, 12:07
If you win, it is usually due to a mixture of skill and good fortune as opposed to the overwhelming power of your list.

Which would be my definition of "competitive" as opposed to winning by default because the enemy couldn't kill your deathstar (aka "cheese"). A great ogre list will probably get creamed by the top tier army builds; but if you can't even get into the upper third of players well you are just a poor general. Ogres just require above average generalship to make them work well (eg knowing how to use MSU to ensure combo-charges).

Keller
09-03-2009, 12:14
Ogre Kingdoms is not a competitive book. It was far from competitive when it was released and it's only got worse from there. Fully half of the units in the book are virtually worthless, so you wind up with very cookie-cutter-ish lists that don't do much for the average player.

I disagree. You get out of the army what you put into it, and most any type of list can work if you play it right. That goes for any army. My army lists change quite often with any of my 4 armies, and I hold a winning record with all of them. There are some trends that I follow within an army, of course, but that's based on how I like ot play and what models I have at the time.


My Ogre armies are often comprised of 1 Tyrant, 1 Hunter, 1 Butcher, 2 units of 3 Bulls, 1 unit of 6 bulls, 1 unit of 6 Iron Guts, 2 units of Trappers, 1-2 units of Yheties, and 2 units of 2 lead belchers. Slave Giants are also a common sight in my armies, as are maneaters.

Does OK have a fail-proof stratagy? No, but I don't think other armies do either. Players tend to tailor their lists to one specific area and just do all they can to max it out in hopes of beating the enemy. OK doesn't really have 1 thing they can throw all of their points into and dominate the phase with, but can win through effective use of all phases.



I guess I just don't get behind the whole "competative list" crowd. Most any list can win. So many players among the competative crowd are not those whom I would want to play against anyway. Such games are rarely fun to play in, degenerating into a game of rock-paper-siscors rather than one of tactics and thinking.

Leogun_91
09-03-2009, 13:33
Nothing wrong with Ogres. They are not that hard to beat but they are not very easy either.

To you´r sidenote question....No, you´r hunter may never join any unit no matter if he has kittens or not.

Drongol
09-03-2009, 13:43
I guess I just don't get behind the whole "competative list" crowd.

This completely invalidates your point. If you are not going to play competitively, then yes, taking large units of Bulls, Slavegiants, etc. really doesn't matter, because you're not playing against the best players with the best lists.

In other words, if you're playing softball with the kiddies, it doesn't matter that you're wearing flip-flops.

Sure, you can hem and haw and say "any list can win," but that doesn't mean "any list has a decent possibility of winning." If your opponent is bringing his A game and you aren't, then it's not his fault for beating you.

Drongol

Voodoo Boyz
09-03-2009, 14:46
Drongol is 100% right.

Ogres can be fun, and they used to be what I'd call "an underpowered book that had 1 list that could generally compete with the rest of the crowd"

Then Daemons came out and there's almost no point in trying to use them for the time being.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: A two year old using a Bloodthirster w/ Obsidian armor could beat any Ogre Kingdoms list you can put together so long as they could stop gnawing on the Thirster's wings long enough to say the word "Charge".

Vedar
09-03-2009, 16:55
This is too bad. My 40K group was looking to get into fantasy and I liked the look of Ogres but the more I understand the more I see why Ogres are like playing Tau in 40K. They can win, but more often then not your ass is handed to you by turn 3. I don't mind a challenge but I don't want to be bound and gagged going into a fight. I'd like a fair chance. Ironically the other army I'm interested also seem to be listed here as weak, Tomb Kings. I own a good amount of Daemons for 40K but I don't want to win because I can say the word charge.

Voodoo Boyz
09-03-2009, 17:18
To be fair, it's really only against Ogres that he can just say "Charge!" and win. Actually, I think it's Ogres & Beasts where he can do that (read: armies that don't have very good shooting to try and keep him honest). Maybe against Tomb Kings too. :P

Solasun
09-03-2009, 17:35
Ogres Kingdoms you say? You've come to the army at an exciting time in my opinion.

This is probably the site for Ogre fans - http://ogrestronghold.com/main/index.php It's forums are brilliant and the site's exploring a whole new look at Ogres.

I, personally, got into them because I love the coverart of the army book (and the army book itself is just gorgeous) and the models looked different from anything else out.

Then I found out how hard they were to use. THEN I realised not how to win, but that I need to play aggresive, not listen to the MSU OR BUST crowd (I do play MSU but not in the same style of Charge + Flank or lose) and roll dice.

We're "weak" in the metagame but in friendly play Ogres run all over alot of things. Except shooting.

Drongol
10-03-2009, 01:52
We're "weak" in the metagame but in friendly play Ogres run all over alot of things. Except shooting.

Yes, when an opponent hamstrings himself, an Ogre army can do pretty well. Go figure. ;)

The whole deathstar being bandied about on the Stronghold is, sadly enough, no more competitive than a typical MSU list, and has quite a few more weaknesses to boot. But hey, it's new and it's exciting, and since the boards are rather slow/dead, anything that gets posts is pretty significant. ;)

To be honest, Ogres are one of those armies that really excel at smaller points games. Like 500. Once your opponent starts being able to take shooting and support units, Ogres just plain fall apart.

That said, I have a winning record with my Ogres, including a few Best General and Best Overall awards at local tourneys, but that doesn't mean that Ogres are a good book. They're a lot of fun to play, but they're far from good.

Drongol

Voodoo Boyz
10-03-2009, 11:10
No offense, but MSU really is the best way to go for Ogres. When I was playing them last year through a couple of tournies, I did "OK" with them. Best I managed was 4th at the Baltimore GD RTT, but at the event I dodged most bad matchups (ie. Daemons & the Dragon lists running around).

Basically what I found was that if they didn't have enough magic defense to let my 3 Butchers do their job, then I can do well. If they have a Dragon then they have to play like a muppet for me to lose the game, or somehow try to charge something that forces them to land within charge range of the Tenderizer Tyrant, which means I win.

Matchup against most remotely competitive lists, and they just really suck. :(

Mercules
10-03-2009, 16:15
Ogres are tough to use, but they are very good training for most other armies out there. I started with Ogres in learning Warhammer. I lost... over and over. Then I started to win a bit. I picked up a Wood Elf army and suddenly all that practice with Ogres paid off. Baiting and charging and picking the right fight became suddenly easy and I started to win regularly with my Wood Elves.

Now I am working with my Ogres again. Still rough going, but enjoyable. Ogres are my fluffy army and WE my competitive one. Great generals can do well with Ogres, but you can't just pick them up and expect to do well. There are a dozen other armies that newer players can pick up and compete with easier than Ogres.

Voodoo Boyz
10-03-2009, 16:26
I was considering trying a Bull Rhinox in my Ogre army if I was going to go back to it. GW may not allow them at GT's, but all the good Warhammer events in my area are Indy GT's and RTT's which do allow Ogres to use Rhinox Riders.

Mercules
10-03-2009, 17:07
Double check first. While you are at it, check to see how they are playing Gut Magic. By RAW Gut Magic does not include Rhinox Riders, they are not in the list of acceptable targets for Gut Magic.