PDA

View Full Version : Ideas for Horde of Tzeentch?



NoxiousQubert
08-03-2009, 22:52
Looking for ideas on a Tzeentch heavy caster list no other marks, but i can seem to figure it out. I haven't played WoC in a while. Anyone have ideas?

Bodysnatcher
08-03-2009, 22:54
Villitch and three wizards. Cram a puppet and a black tongue in. What more is there to know?

W0lf
08-03-2009, 22:56
Lvl 4 on disk
2x lvl 2 on disc
3x marauder horsmen
3x chaos knights.

Works.

NoxiousQubert
08-03-2009, 23:00
The thing is I have never played a magic heavy army nor played one. When I play Lizzies i run magic defense and a carnisaur.

W0lf
08-03-2009, 23:04
Oh ok. The let me tell you this from personal experience (i mostly go magic heavy lol).

Dont take Tzeentch on lvl 2 wizards. Its a terrible lore for lvl 2's. MoN is better and easier to get on with.

Magic heavy takes a certain finesse people dont realise. Things like casting order, dice per spell and drawing scrolls is vital.

Bodysnatcher
08-03-2009, 23:05
The trick is to go for stacking and interaction. A tidal wave of low powered magic will cause more damage than a few turbo spells across an average game.
Flickering fire is one of the best spells for this, because it has the potential to be obscene but, because it's usually pants, often slips past dispell attempts.

NoxiousQubert
08-03-2009, 23:14
Oh ok. The let me tell you this from personal experience (i mostly go magic heavy lol).

Dont take Tzeentch on lvl 2 wizards. Its a terrible lore for lvl 2's. MoN is better and easier to get on with.

Magic heavy takes a certain finesse people dont realise. Things like casting order, dice per spell and drawing scrolls is vital.

The reason im keeping it to Tzeentch is that he is my fave of the Chaos Gods.

Aranel
08-03-2009, 23:17
No disrespect to W0lf, but I would disagree with the Lv2 arguement. The first spell on the Tz list is red fire, possibly the best 1st spell in the game. Its so potentially devastating that it draws dispel dice like nobodies buisiness and if your lv2's get poor spells, you can do a lot worse than lobbing 2x2 dice loads of red fire a turn and letting your lord have all the pool dice. one of my favoured tactics is sticking a a lord with the Skull of Katam very near to a Lv2 with power familer and book of secrets. +2 to cast with these two for every spell will quickly draw out scrolls and put real pressure on your opponants dispel dice. Also, the banner of wrath works well with this combo and generally gets through as the guy on the other side of the table will be more worried about your other spells!

W0lf
08-03-2009, 23:51
OK lets do this.

I was a Tz purest for 18 months under the hordes book (played that army almost exclusivly as my only fantasy army) for a long time. SO that answers the fav gods part.

Now my critical analysis of the lore of Tzeentch;

1 - yes ofc good. Not buboes good thou.
2 - Most useless spell ever, on average itll do nothing.
3 - disgusting spell. (as in best spell in game imo)
4 - pretty useless. Immune to psy is very common on elite units and across several armies. Only really useful for non-immune to psy GW wielding troops, of which there are few.
5 - HIGHLY situational and 3 dice isnt a likely cast, waste of power dice.
6 - wont cast. I like to make sure all my power dice are doing something.

so 4-6 are effectivly non-used. Especially when playing vs vamps/daemons/DE.

2 is one of the worst spell ever written. Agasint LD 7 it on average does NOTHING. WOO go spell!.

This leaves your 140 pt wizard (magic items aside) wanting only spells 1+3. And 3 assumes the opponent has magic.

I dont think flickering fire is worth 140 pts, do you?

Vs lore of nurgle.

1. Buboes. 3 dice buboes makes baby jesus cry. Opponent simply has to dispel it or lose characters pretty fast. Far more deadly then fire.

2. Regen and its not RiP. Oh and a 7+ you say. Disgusting.

3. pretty average given. Still nice vs knights.

4. Not too dismiliar to treason in terms of damage. Brilliant for those annoying grave guard deathstars that are oh so common thou. Oh and dwarfs beware!

5. Again a game-winner. Another MUST dispel (so thats 2). Cast this and your opponents units have no chance in cc. Also perfectly castable on 3 dice (AVG is 10.5) so no dice wasted.

6. Not brillaint but still castable. If you do cast it, its pretty nice.


Nurgle > Tz for lore imo. Thats from 20 or so games playing with 2x Tz lvl 2's aswell. ANd yes festus rocks (spell 1+5 guaranteed)

NoxiousQubert
09-03-2009, 00:44
OK lets do this.

I was a Tz purest for 18 months under the hordes book (played that army almost exclusivly as my only fantasy army) for a long time. SO that answers the fav gods part.

Now my critical analysis of the lore of Tzeentch;

1 - yes ofc good. Not buboes good thou.
2 - Most useless spell ever, on average itll do nothing.
3 - disgusting spell. (as in best spell in game imo)
4 - pretty useless. Immune to psy is very common on elite units and across several armies. Only really useful for non-immune to psy GW wielding troops, of which there are few.
5 - HIGHLY situational and 3 dice isnt a likely cast, waste of power dice.
6 - wont cast. I like to make sure all my power dice are doing something.

so 4-6 are effectivly non-used. Especially when playing vs vamps/daemons/DE.

2 is one of the worst spell ever written. Agasint LD 7 it on average does NOTHING. WOO go spell!.

This leaves your 140 pt wizard (magic items aside) wanting only spells 1+3. And 3 assumes the opponent has magic.

I dont think flickering fire is worth 140 pts, do you?

Vs lore of nurgle.

1. Buboes. 3 dice buboes makes baby jesus cry. Opponent simply has to dispel it or lose characters pretty fast. Far more deadly then fire.

2. Regen and its not RiP. Oh and a 7+ you say. Disgusting.

3. pretty average given. Still nice vs knights.

4. Not too dismiliar to treason in terms of damage. Brilliant for those annoying grave guard deathstars that are oh so common thou. Oh and dwarfs beware!

5. Again a game-winner. Another MUST dispel (so thats 2). Cast this and your opponents units have no chance in cc. Also perfectly castable on 3 dice (AVG is 10.5) so no dice wasted.

6. Not brillaint but still castable. If you do cast it, its pretty nice.


Nurgle > Tz for lore imo. Thats from 20 or so games playing with 2x Tz lvl 2's aswell. ANd yes festus rocks (spell 1+5 guaranteed)

Don't forget that they probably nerfed tzeentch from the ridiculousness that it use to be in the old codex.

W0lf
09-03-2009, 01:54
lmao.

Ridiculousness? I take it you never played the army, they never won no tournys. They were only good if your opponent was dumb. 15 PD and a lore that was so bad id have swapped it for 10 PD + the current one. Then theres the fact the mark NERFED your own troops...

Infact lets not go there. You clearly dont understand

NoxiousQubert
09-03-2009, 04:53
lmao.

Ridiculousness? I take it you never played the army, they never won no tournys. They were only good if your opponent was dumb. 15 PD and a lore that was so bad id have swapped it for 10 PD + the current one. Then theres the fact the mark NERFED your own troops...

Infact lets not go there. You clearly dont understand

True my chaos army never came into being, because i started to get into the lizies before the new book. Now I want to see if I can jump start my chaos army once more, and make a glorious army of tzentch :D.

I was also thinking that for fluff reasons I can name the nurgle spells some thing Tzeentchy. you know so i don't feel like so bad playing them. Then again I am deceiving Tzeentch and hes all for that *Tow Thumbs Up*

Jericho
09-03-2009, 19:55
That and the old Tzeentch Hordes list was even more vastly outnumbered than the current one. The characters were so ridiculously expensive... damn good but if you have like 25 models on the board good luck :D

Re: using MON as an alt-Tzeentch lore, it's not that hard. Most of the nurgle spells seem to be very mutation-based, and Tzeentch is the Lord of Change as we all know. Just have a caster who is mutated all to hell and it'll be close enough.

Bodysnatcher
09-03-2009, 20:04
Tzeentch gives you +1 to cast. Flickering fire on a 3+ is possibly the best spell in the game!
Third eye of tzeentch can also be hilarious for some games.

And then there's the dirty trick of using Call to glory to create a hero, have him accept a challenge and then ending the spell for no combat res... (silly exploit that's bound to be cleared up soon).

Jericho
09-03-2009, 21:08
The FAQ actually allows it, since any RIP spell can be ended at any time by the caster. The FAQ simply states that "It is gentlemanly (and it avoids endless arguments) to wait for the end of a phase before intentionally terminating this spell."

smokemeakipper
09-03-2009, 21:16
you could theme a army on a tzeentch cult within the empire with lots of chaos thugs/marauders led by holymen/preachers.

Jericho
09-03-2009, 21:18
That's a pretty cool theme, actually. Having mostly human Empire models with subtle mutations and a more chaotic color scheme would be pretty sweet.

NoxiousQubert
09-03-2009, 23:35
I was also reading through just because I take the MoT doesn't mean I have to strictly use Tzee spells i could have a caster with MoT and have him use lore of fire, shadow, or Death.

How every im still trying to figure out how to play a magic heavy list. What should i focus on doing to my opponent? What tactics should I use? How do I deal with static combat res units and monsters?

(A lil Fluffy now) I want to bring the glorious power on Tzeentch to the table.

W0lf
10-03-2009, 01:42
Thats wrong. If you have MoT you MUST use lore of Tz.

As for your main concerns. write up a list and post it. Easiest way to recieve critic.

Jericho
10-03-2009, 06:15
Warriors of Chaos versus monsters is an interesting question, one most of us have trouble answering :p

Hellcannons can be quite good, magic definitely helps, and if you must engage them then try to do so after they've been weakened or you've been buffed by magic, Warshrines, or whatever. Not many units/characters can do it without help.

Except Kholek Suneater. He's pretty damn good at killing whatever he can get his hands on.

NoxiousQubert
10-03-2009, 07:27
Warriors of Chaos versus monsters is an interesting question, one most of us have trouble answering :p

Hellcannons can be quite good, magic definitely helps, and if you must engage them then try to do so after they've been weakened or you've been buffed by magic, Warshrines, or whatever. Not many units/characters can do it without help.

Except Kholek Suneater. He's pretty damn good at killing whatever he can get his hands on.

See I was thinking of having 2 hellcannons in my list along with a level 4 sorcerer lord, and 2 level 2 sorcerers one with the book of secrets.