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Teri-Hxlac
09-03-2009, 07:57
I'm having trouble beating my friends Star Dragon Cavalry list, any suggestions with my Lizards how to take it down at any amount of points?

havoc626
09-03-2009, 08:47
Hmm, big lizard list? Taking lots of Stegs would be intimidating for them to verse, but this is just what first jumps to mind for me. It would also give the advantages of lots of terror causing units, making you immune to the affects caused by the star dragon/others in his list.

A Slann would be a powerful thing to have depending on the other characters in your opponent's army. It's tough and an exellent caster, capable of getting spells off like no tomorrow, plus an increased Ld for any near-by unit.

To get more of a feel of the situation, what units do you/your friend usually use?

WhiteKnight
09-03-2009, 14:48
Here's help from a high elf player. With star dragon lists, we tend to go with a level 1 mage with 2 scrolls and thats it other than a banner or two. At 3k, this is where high elves excel a lot so if you don't want to go against 2-3 dragons, don't play that point level. So if i were you, stegadons all the way backed up by a carnosaur. Very deadly and you can put out alot of attacks. War spear too if you can.

Malorian
09-03-2009, 15:39
Blast him with shots. Skinks (poison) and razordons will kill the lord and in time can kill the dragon.

Other than that, just wipe out the rest of his army and make him pay for putting so many points in one model.

PeG
09-03-2009, 15:52
On top of that dragon is a T3 model in a skirt. For the dragon lots of shooting or magic will take him down.

LKHERO
09-03-2009, 16:39
Bane Head works against characters and their mounts right?

If so, taking that would mean the Star Dragon would die a horrible death if you take an Old Blood w/ Scrimitar + Maiming Shield on a Carnosaur.

Foegnasher
09-03-2009, 16:40
carnasaur should be able to kill the mount....

otherwise go giant bow + poisoned skinks.

gogs78
09-03-2009, 17:55
On top of that dragon is a T3 model in a skirt. For the dragon lots of shooting or magic will take him down.

T3, yes. Skirt? Hardly. 2+ rerollable save and 4+ ward has rarely let me down.

LKHERO
09-03-2009, 18:43
Who cares about the rider, it's the mount and all its given properties that's troublesome.

I play High Elves btw.

huitzilopochtli
09-03-2009, 19:05
Blade of realities with an oldblood on carnosaur. Bye bye dragon, lord and anything else you got. Ld 10 will only save you for so long, and even if you pass you've got to contend with S5 hits, and S7 from the carnosaur. If possible top it off with second sign of amul and portent of far to maximize the BoR hits.

LKHERO
09-03-2009, 19:20
Blade of realities with an oldblood on carnosaur. Bye bye dragon, lord and anything else you got. Ld 10 will only save you for so long, and even if you pass you've got to contend with S5 hits, and S7 from the carnosaur. If possible top it off with second sign of amul and portent of far to maximize the BoR hits.

Except the Dragon and Prince will hit your Oldblood and slay him terribly.

The Carnosaur will die in subsequent combat.

What's the Carnosaurs WS? If it's a 3, you need a 5 to hit the Star Dragon or the Prince.

Pete_x
09-03-2009, 19:42
Except the Dragon and Prince will hit your Oldblood and slay him terribly.

The Carnosaur will die in subsequent combat.

What's the Carnosaurs WS? If it's a 3, you need a 5 to hit the Star Dragon or the Prince.

what are you using to "slay terribly" a oldblood with 3 wounds 5t and 1+/2+ armor save???

My advice would be to use a lot of skinks they just destroy dragons. 10 of then with blowpipe will deal in average 3.333 wound to a dragon and rider (before save) 1.111 wound will go to the rider and the remaining to the dragon. That's from poison alone btw. Obviously should the rider die the skink would take the dragon down faster.

Pacha
09-03-2009, 20:11
what are you using to "slay terribly" a oldblood with 3 wounds 5t and 1+/2+ armor save???

6 WS7, S7 attacks from the dragon perhaps? Hitting on 3's, wounding on 2's, 5+/6+ save. Even an oldblood is going to struggle to shrug that off, and even if he does, he still has to weather the attacks of the elf lord.

Chance are the oldblood (and his expensive magic weapon) will be toast and, in return, the carnosaur will probably do d3 wounds to the dragon. Even assuming the max 3 wounds, the carno will still lose due to outnumber and end up fleeing thanks to its mighty ld 5.

Maybe 'slay terribly' is too harsh, but I wouldn't give good odds to the oldblood, no matter his loadout.

Jericho
09-03-2009, 20:15
Even a regular lance will strip 1-2 wounds off the Oldblood, and the Dragon can do the rest. You're likely going to face the S7 no armor save lance which will likely take all 3 wounds off the Oldblood, or the Ld10 2+ re-rollable armor save backed up by a 4+ ward. Good luck with that. Killing the T3 poofter isn't exactly an easy task.

The Carnosaur isn't the best thing out there to deal with WS7+ monsters and their riders, either.

Sorry guys, this is one nut the Oldblood with Blade of Realities won't be able to crack without a heap of good luck.

LKHERO
09-03-2009, 20:37
Two questions here that's fairly important to this argument:

1. Does Bane Head effect the Rider's mount too? That means if I nominate the Prince in the beginning of the game, does this effect his Star Dragon as well?

2. What's the WS on the Carnosaur?

Malorian
09-03-2009, 20:45
Baneshead is issued against a character, so the mount is uneffected.

Carnosaurs are WS3 and would hit the dragon on 5's.

LKHERO
09-03-2009, 20:58
Carnosaurs are WS3 and would hit the dragon on 7's.

I assume you meant 5s :D

But yes, so Banehead doesn't work and Carnosaurs hit on 5s. I think I'm convinced that the Prince w/ Star Dragon will win everytime now.

4 attacks with S5 coming from the Prince's Halbred (or S6 if he takes the lance) and 6 attacks with S7. You will get the charge so you're hitting first. Oldblood dies. Blade of Realities will be a wasted pointsink. The Scrimitar + Maiming Shield combo will fail just as hard.

Malorian
09-03-2009, 21:01
Fixed.

Like I said, shoot down the rider with skinks/razordons, claim the points and hope for a bad monster reaction test. Past that just go after the rest of his army and try to minimize the amount of damage the dragon does.

huitzilopochtli
09-03-2009, 22:26
Yeah I see the problem. I always overestimate the chances of getting the charge and yes, the carnosaur/oldblood would be slain terribly. :p

Still, how are skinks going to fare any better? The rider's not going to die and the dragon has 7 wounds and a 3+ save. Unless you're extremely lucky you're not going to kill it in turn one and by turn two it's going to be happily munching on dino flesh, in combat, away from shooting.

Pete_x
09-03-2009, 22:46
well that dragon is a bit stronger then I thought so yes terribly slain oldblood :cries:

that being said I still believe skinks to be the way to go.

maybe even a list that looks like this

Slann
(leaving the gear and discipline up to you)

16 temple guard, maybe even more

and tons of skinks

An engine of the god would be possible since you could screen it with skinks (by leaving no place between the EotG and the skink squad), and it would give you another tool against cavalry (rod of storm and hopefully the uranon's spell).

with no EotG this list could field about 170 skink skirmisher :)

of course this might not work but it would be fun!

Jormi_Boced
09-03-2009, 23:07
I killed one using beast cowers then charged with an ancient, a steggie, temple guard and a sallie.

LKHERO
09-03-2009, 23:15
Precog and Focused Rumination for your Slann is the best deal.

+1 dice to each cast attempt and you can pick a caster on his side of the table at the start of the game. All rolls of 6s to cast are then immediately discarded (as if they don't even exist).

Teri-Hxlac
10-03-2009, 07:02
Thanks for the help, I'm going to try some heavy skink/steggie shooting first, maybe a slann with pit of shades and see if I can suck his dragon into the void, I'll let you know how it all gos

Vsurma
10-03-2009, 11:11
I wouldn't bother with the pit, he has to roll a 6 to lose the dragon and rider, there are better spells out there.
Beasts for spear and beast cowers comes to mind, that or bane head the rider and take death.

Steal soul will be nice, granted on its own it takes 4 castings to kill it with a 4+ ward, 2 castings and some cc might work also.

sroblin
10-03-2009, 22:54
Like I said, shoot down the rider with skinks/razordons, claim the points and hope for a bad monster reaction test. Past that just go after the rest of his army and try to minimize the amount of damage the dragon does.

I don't think you're taking into account that High Elf characters have a lot of good options for 2+ armor, 4+ ward save, and re-rolls. Against T3 models, it's not as if the poison on the blowpipes such a massive benefit; the larger obstacle is the armor save and wards.

You know what might scare elves?
Blood statuette of spite. Toughness tests on T3.

Otherwise, I think Stegadons are a pretty good; if you can pin down the dragon for a few turns, you can flank it.