View Full Version : O&G: Shaga's sword of screamin' & unit chmpions

09-03-2009, 20:02
So, a friend of mine and me do not agree on the synergy between unit champions and Shaga's Sword of Screamin'.

Let me elaborate:
Shaga's sword of screamin' : "The wielder of this sword receives +1 Strength and +1 Attack for each enemy character within 12"." (p42 O&G rulebook)

Champions:"Champions are not characters, but members of their regiment."
"Champions can move in unit in exactly the same way as characters."
"Champions can accept and issue challenges."
"Champions are treated as characters when their unit is hit by ranged attacks." (p.81 BRB)

So he interprets the champions as "champions are not characters" with regard to Shaga's sword, whereas I figured that since the lower three citations consider them as being characters, they should also be treated as character for Shaga's sword.

Is there any definitive answer to this that we have overlooked?

P.s.: sorry if this has been asked before, couldn't find the thread through search.

09-03-2009, 20:06
Refer to the chaos EotG threads.

That first line you quoted says it all (Champions are not characters). There is no need to go any further.

09-03-2009, 20:08
unit champions are not characters, just sometimes they masquerade as characters.

09-03-2009, 20:16
It's all been said already, your friend is right. Quite franckly, if champions were counted as special characters, that item would probably be the best magic weapon in warhammer, by far.

09-03-2009, 20:25
Okay, thanks for the quick reactions! Seems like the item is not as overpowered as I hoped ;). Gonna have to stick with Grimgor for a truly fighty char then.

09-03-2009, 22:47
Indeed. 'Counts as' is never the same as 'is'. Just that he moves in the same way or can accept in the same way, doesn't make him one.
This applies not only for this specific situation, but for many situations where rules say 'treat it like that, for this situation'.

I can walk like a king, but it doesn't make me one. (too bad, but true.)

By the way, if you play it right, you should be able to get at least 2 enemy characters close enough when you get to combat. It's my number one favourite item from the weapons section.

10-03-2009, 09:55
ah but will it work on the named dark elf/chaos champion characters you can now get? they get special rules/items so therefor should count as characters

10-03-2009, 10:08
No, they're champions.

10-03-2009, 10:47
On the other hand RoR units......

10-03-2009, 12:21
If it worked on champions then Grail Knights would be messed up....how many attacks at
strength obscene do you say?

10-03-2009, 12:33
nice try, but wont work.

10-03-2009, 13:55
They are named champions, not characters. A name is not enough to be a character. I can name all my models, but it still doesn't make them characters... Characters, if you ask me, are models that use up lord and/or hero slots.

About DOW, if the named persons in there would count of characters, then please let me fight a DOW army! Black orc warbosses with 11 S12 attacks should be achievable...

No, but seriously, something is not a character because it has a name, its a character when its chosen from the character section of the armylist (e.g. from either the heroes or lords) and directly follows (and not via a 'treat as...') all the rules described on page 72 to 79 of the BRB, a section which is appropriately named 'characters'.

10-03-2009, 14:01
In the case of Dogs of War/Regiments of Renown, having a name DOES mean you're a character because that's what the DoW/RoR rules say.

For anyone else, though, a champion by any name is a champion and not a character.

11-03-2009, 07:16
Yes, I just found that out, and came by to clearify.
Indeed DOW have specific ruling that any named models in that army are characters.

However, do note that therefore they weren't champions in the first place.
And this is a specific DOW rule, not meant for other armies.