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Nykster
10-03-2009, 06:49
Just as the title says, is it plausible to get chaos tau?

I'm wanting to build a Slaanesh cult from tau, basicaly just tau, but cool paint and conversions.

holmcross
10-03-2009, 07:00
What do you propose? A rogue Ethereal become seduced by Slaanesh and takes a batallion of troops along for the ride? (no sarcasm)

Seems highly unlikely, so my guess wouild be that its not plausible. I'm no expert on Tau fluff, but my understanding is they are very, very resistant to chaos corruption.

Deadmanwade
10-03-2009, 07:07
If you want to make them, go ahead, it's your army.

Fluff wise, Tau are supposed to have no warp presence (no psykers etc) making them difficult for daemons to possess etc. At no point has GW said "Chaos Tau are impossible" though.

At the end of the day, so long as your army isnt breaking any rules you're fine to make anything you want.

That said, Khorne Tau would be hilarious.:D

There are dozens of similar threads posted in the past, look them over to see what others think.

Iceheart2112
10-03-2009, 07:11
As stated Chaos Tau is extraordinarily unlikely...somewhere just below the level of a Grey Knight being corrupted. Its just too much work for them to fall into Chaos; a very very small warp presence.

But you can convert/paint it however you like.

Vaktathi
10-03-2009, 07:15
It's possible for Tau to fall to Chaos, they aren't immune to it, but they aren't exactly attuned to the Warp either, their warp presence is almost nothing compared to a humans, they'd have to be far more exposed to it than humans or Eldar. There likely wouldn't be some cult hiding in the shadows slowly corrupting everything, something would likely have to be directly exposed to the warp or Daemons, something drastic, but it could happen. (they aren't anywhere near "grey knights" incorruptible)


It's certainly not impossible.



Anything, no matter how small or nonexistent it's presence in the Warp is, can be corrupted. Tau are no exception, they just need a more...direct corruption method.

Explodingboy
10-03-2009, 07:19
Generaly, its unlikely to happen. no psykers, as has been pointed out.

but, There is already official fluff of the rouge Tau, commander O'shovah, and going by the the games workshop page on him, they have everything from chaos to Necron influences as conversions for him.

Lord-Caerolion
10-03-2009, 07:26
Just because something isn't a psyker doesn't mean it can't be corrupted. After all, we have Defilers, which are possessed vehicles. We have corrupted planets, and you definitely can't argue that they have a soul.

So yeah, go for it. Somehow your Ethereal got corrupted, perhaps by studying something he really, really shouldn't have, and with him gone it was easy for the rest of your Tau to fall too. Simple.

Clang
10-03-2009, 07:36
Fluffwise, it seems justifiable to me - Tau are interested in any technology or power, they investigate this mysterious alien thing called the Warp while cheerfully believing themselves immune to its dangers. Decades of work and zillions of Tau-dollars later, they succeed, only to then accidentally release a greater daemon who happily enslaves all the Tau nearby. Sure other Tau will try to cleanse such impurity once they realise what's going on, but a whole lot of damage happens in the meantime.

The other fluff possibility would be that a new Tau mercenary race, even more savage than Kroot (or a new extra nasty subspecies of Kroot), turn out to be enhanced by Chaos

dugaal
10-03-2009, 07:38
It would be interesting if the very fact they have no warp presence made them more likely to worship...

If humans/eldar etc are easily manipulated by the warp and they are indoctrinated to view the whole affair as evil and debased (considering the Horus Hersey/The Fall) It just seems too easy.

If some Tau witnessed a possession or Daemon raising uninitiated, it would be a fantastic paradigm shift from their solid grasp of reality, and beyond their experience to fathom.
They would have to try extra hard to gain favour, making their worship all the more pronounced.
Call it 'Warp Envy" :D

Edit : Clang, I like that idea, perhaps it requires some bioengineering to 'turn on' their presence, or like you said; And If some tribal/chaotic VS current Tau Civil war resulted

ehlijen
10-03-2009, 07:48
To corrupt Tau you have to overcome both the fact that they have very little psychic presence in the warp and that they have very strong beliefs in a unified destiny for their people (far stronger even than the imperium).
Both need to be overcome before any Tau will consider going against the greater good.

The low psychic presence could also mean that deamons just wouldn't be interested in them as they might get little power from their souls in return.

Ddraiglais
10-03-2009, 07:52
Is it that time of the month already?

To the OP, it's not impossible that Tau could be corrupted by Chaos. However, an entire army of Tau is pushing it a bit. You'd have to come up with some crazy fluff. Something like a Tau fleet got lost and stumbled into the Eye of Terror or something along those lines.

To address defilers and such... There is a huge difference between bound daemons and possessing daemons. Chaos regularly binds daemons to vehicles and weapons. Those daemons aren't usually willing. In possessions, the daemon is definately willing. The host is usually willing as far as 40K fluff goes, but that's not always the case (Fulgrim).

tankadams
10-03-2009, 08:01
That said, Khorne Tau would be hilarious.:D



Actually just thinking about it, Khorne Tau would be one of the more likely cults. Fire Warriors are quite violent if left to their own devices and were the last to accept the ethereals as rulers. A whisper in the ear, a vision of how things "should" be and away you go.

Orcboy_Phil
10-03-2009, 08:02
In the Deamon Hunters Codex, there is the very scenario your suggesting. A Tau Etheral is possed by a Greater Deamon and hilarity ensues.

Thougth I do have one question for you; why does everything have to be chaosified, can't anybody come up with something original for a change?

holmcross
10-03-2009, 08:06
The "Possible justifications for Grey Knights to fight _____" in the back of the DH Codex are pretty ridiculous for the most part. They were really making a stretch on some of those entries.

ReveredChaplainDrake
10-03-2009, 08:40
Cue the Warseer signature that goes something like:

The Chaos Tau hang out with the Chaos Grey Knights who are far too interested in the female Space Marines and sexually active Sisters of Battle...

...or something like that.

totgeboren
10-03-2009, 09:49
That said, Khorne Tau would be hilarious.:D


As has been pointed out, Fire Warriors without an Ethereal would most likely fall to Khorne. Khorne isn't just about hitting people in the head with sticks. You can throw rocks at them too! Its all the same to Khorne.
The warriors pride is the hallmark of Khorne, and the Fire Warriors got that in shiploads.

I mean, there are many Khorne Traitor Guards, the Blood Pact being the most famous, and they don't go charging into the guns of the enemy.

Other than that, sure, Chaos Tau can be done. Though I would prefer if the force did not include an Ethereal. They are like the central image of "the incorruptible Tau".

Chaos Ethereal are a bit like Chaos Grey Knights...

The Grey Guy
10-03-2009, 09:57
Would make for an interesting looking army. On a side note slaneesh daemonette heads look pretty similar to the tau, would make for an easy base to build on

a squig
10-03-2009, 10:06
Actually just thinking about it, Khorne Tau would be one of the more likely cults. Fire Warriors are quite violent if left to their own devices and were the last to accept the ethereals as rulers. A whisper in the ear, a vision of how things "should" be and away you go.


it would be great to watch though, 1000 khorne firewarriors vs 1 slighty crankey baby with a lollypop.

ethreal(sp): CHARGE
baby : gurgle
Fire warriors : blood for the blood god, skulls for the skull throne
baby: giggles
ethral : WTF we got to the target???? we are usally bleeding out on the floor by now.:wtf:
firewarriors: we scared, we got into close combat :( look what it has in its hand
baby: burp
Fire warriors: maybe we should just lie down and hope he dosent unlease the lollypop of DOOM
ethral: good idea ;)

Result baby with lolly pop =1001
ethral and 1000 firewarriors = 0


Rearly khorne is the worst god for tau to follow i reckon that they would be better as a slanesh(sp) or tazench(sp) worshiper.

but yeah i like the idea, would you use the demon or chaos codex or stick with the tau codex for the rules?

Bathfinder
10-03-2009, 10:08
To address defilers and such... There is a huge difference between bound daemons and possessing daemons. Chaos regularly binds daemons to vehicles and weapons. Those daemons aren't usually willing. In possessions, the daemon is definately willing. The host is usually willing as far as 40K fluff goes, but that's not always the case (Fulgrim).

That just got me thinking: ( well, there isn't much seriousness to this thought but they could be cool conversions) what if the things corrupted aren't the tau themselves, but some battlesuits and skimmers? This, of course, would work best if you play a suit-heavy army, but I just get the feeling of evil chaos-cultist (counts as etheral) leading hords of suits with spiky bits and defiler-legs to battle with the original drivers of the suits trapped and screaming inside.

Lanparth
10-03-2009, 10:18
To be honest, all it takes is one. One Tau Ethereal of higher rank twisting and jumping. Because its about luring his army to a location where they too will be corrupted, or forced to make dark deals with ruinous powers.

One Tau of rank (A decent one) could twist an army to the favor of the Gods.

Ficho
10-03-2009, 10:36
Well, in the fluff there never was a corrupted tau.
But in one little backstory there was some kroot that
had eaten something they shouldn't have and got mutated
and corrupted.

Hrafn
10-03-2009, 10:43
Ooooh the favorite burning topic of Warseer self-immolation! :p

Countdown to appearance of torch-wielding Bregalad begun...5..4...3.....

Lord Damocles
10-03-2009, 11:51
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86170&highlight=chaos+tau

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55992

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40404

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34577


EDIT: In before Bregalad / lock!

EDIT 2: Aww, Bregalad's list of links is so much better than mine :( :p

Bregalad
10-03-2009, 11:58
...2...1.... tadaaa :p

Just have a look at all other Chaos Tau threads where this has been discussed/flamed to death. Let's just say, you are not alone on Warseer with the "let's stick tentacles and spikes to the purest thing I can find" fetish :rolleyes:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120730
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86170
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55992
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40404
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34577
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163959
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103562
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85394
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26457

If you need Chaos Sororitas, Chaos Grey Knights and Chaos Eldar thread links, just ask :angel:

Edit: @Lord Damocles: Too late :evilgrin:

Tarquinn
10-03-2009, 12:33
Yes, it is plausible.

Slightly more plausible than Chaos Necrons and female Space Marines. :rolleyes:

Grimtuff
10-03-2009, 12:35
...2...1.... tadaaa :p

Just have a look at all other Chaos Tau threads where this has been discussed/flamed to death. Let's just say, you are not alone on Warseer with the "let's stick tentacles and spikes to the purest thing I can find" fetish :rolleyes:


Good, you've got him on the ropes now Breg. Work the body! ;)

TimLeeson
10-03-2009, 12:39
I can see why Bregalad hates the idea so much, im a little shocked at how many topics about this subject have been made too.

I do think you should do whatever you want to, they are your models - but I have to agree I dont like the idea myself.

To represent chaos Aliens, I personally find it more interesting to do the ones in the backround like Saruthi, Slaughth and the other warp-worshipping races.

The Gothic Me
10-03-2009, 12:40
The general answer I hear is that Tau are apparently robotic and thus all have identical personality making it impossible for them to turn to a cause other then the greater good.

As you can probably guess, I don't really agree, after all humans are incredibly loyal to their doctrine, yet seem to fall in huge numbers; marines especially. Just because Tau can't be possessed doesn't mean they can't worship chaos gods.

I do understand the objection, wanting to have Chaos Tau can be seen as the sought of "look at me I'm special" move that leads to Chaos Grey Knights and Sisters (always Slaanesh of course, hell, Khorne Sister could actually be interesting) or every second space marine chapter being one of the missing two legions, as well as every second demon prince being one of the missing two's Primarch.

But I don't think it's the same with Chaos Tau (and eldar for that matter). They actually offer something interesting, making the Tau more then just a one dimensional race for the Space Marines to shoot at, and making Chaos more then just The Imperium, but with spikes. I mean, just jamming some spikes on a hammerhead and painting your fire warriors black isn't really worth it. But I think it would be interesting to see just how Chaos influence would manifest in races other then human.

Vyperchild
10-03-2009, 12:41
If you want to do this go ahead. There's nothing specifically against it and personally, i'd love to see a well built slaaneshi tau army.

My suggestion would be to create reasonable fluff for a rogue tau colony being affected by a slaaneshi artefact.

omg just realised. penis railguns. HELL YEAH

Nero
10-03-2009, 12:57
Yeah, people seem to hear 'Tau have a relatively small warp presence' and read that as 'Tau cannot be corrupted by Chaos, ever, for any reason'.

To my knowledge, GW haven't said anywhere that Tau are incorruptible. People are just making assumptions.

A lack of warp presence just means they can't easily be effected directly (daemonic possession, voices whispering to them - they don't have a strong enough link to the warp).

Indirect corruption is still very possible (Hey Ethereal? Want to protect your puny empire from the encroaching Imperium? I'll give you endless daemon 'auxiliaries' that'll make the kroot look poultry in comparison! Just sacrifice some of your men to me...)

EDIT


omg just realised. penis railguns. HELL YEAH

That's getting sigged.

Industrial Propaganda
10-03-2009, 13:10
Just as the title says, is it plausible to get chaos tau?

I'm wanting to build a Slaanesh cult from tau, basicaly just tau, but cool paint and conversions.

Yes, it's "possible". But your idea is sooooo un-original and boring that it sucks... I hate Chaos Tau.

baphomael
10-03-2009, 13:28
Besides, the Tau are fairly isolated from Chaos - to the point where it all seems like superstition and exaggeration toward a force of nature few understand. Most Tau would probably scoff "yea, right, 'daemon's, if you say so".

Necromancer2
10-03-2009, 13:43
I don't know if they can or can't be "Corupted" by Chaos, however I would buy (but it would be rare) that a Sect could become bad and might follow/try to be corupted to get a head of the other Tau. Let just face it... no body is perfect... not even Tau!

That said... evil Tau Painted would be really cool!!!!!!

Tread Head
10-03-2009, 13:44
i have 1,500 points of fully converted and painted Chaos Slaanesh Tau, would any one like to see it.

And yes they can be converted psychic presence or not. i see it as more about a question of power, which essentially is what the lure of chaos is all about. my commander, similar to farsight wants to carve a name for himself and when off kickin some random strangley mutated humans booty discoveres a book in there lair.
odd book this one because it talks to him promising the power and influence he craves, unfortunately his ethereal tells him to leave it alone, but he kills him.
very soon he finds his whole armys armour and weapons mutating but he never looses a battle, bit late by then though, such is the fickle power of chaos.

btw although i have been registered for ages i havent got around to putting almost anything up on warseer and am a compleeeeeeeete noob with forums (i manage a pub and can pull an awesome pint tho, lol)

will have a go today/tommorow at puttin pics up but if havin trouble will post a message and hopefully one of you nice people could go through it with me. lol.

ehlijen
10-03-2009, 14:29
The general answer I hear is that Tau are apparently robotic and thus all have identical personality making it impossible for them to turn to a cause other then the greater good.

As you can probably guess, I don't really agree, after all humans are incredibly loyal to their doctrine, yet seem to fall in huge numbers; marines especially. Just because Tau can't be possessed doesn't mean they can't worship chaos gods.


For the most parts humans are only loyal the Imperial doctrine for as long as a higher ranking/more powerful human is looking over their shoulder. The second a planetary govenour thinks he can get away with it, he'll stop paying his tithes. There's a reason the Imperium has compartmentalised its militray structure to such a degree at the cost of effective troop movement capabilities.

The whole point of the Tau is that, yes they are so unbelievably single minded as a people. They almost wiped themselves out before they figured out how to be as they are now. Between ethereal mind control and indoctrination of every Tau child that individualism leads to autogenocide, it is perfectly understandable for the Tau race to be as united as it is. Keep in mind that their empire is still small enough for effective direct control from a central government.

Could Tau worship a chaos god? Possibly. Could such a cult grow to self sustaining levels before being discovered and 'corrected'? Much less likely for as long as the Tau empire remains as small as it is.

Given how hard it is for a deamon to even notice the Tau (no psykers and small warp presence means they'd be little more than background noise with all the delicious human psykers screaming around) there is little to gain for the deamons compared to the time and effort required to gain a substantial following. So I only see Tzeentch doing it and then most likely for some greater non-tau related purpose.

massey
10-03-2009, 14:48
Chaos Tau are fine. They have a small warp signature, but that just means they don't have psykers. Having a small warp signature is in no way a defense against demons, just like having a small *ahem* is no defense against STDs. It does mean that they aren't likely to be possessed the regular way, but it can still happen if they stumble across the wrong artifact or go to the wrong place. I think the idea of Chaos Tau gets a lot of people interested (see the number of other threads) because it has the potential to liven up an otherwise rather blah army.

Tau really have very little knowledge of Chaos. They're halfway across the galaxy from the Eye, after all. This is beneficial in some way, as they aren't directly tempted by things they don't know about. But there is some fluff about a Tau force encountering a Chaos cult. The cultists were singing praises to Slaanesh. The Tau thought Slaanesh was the leader of the army. "Dude, we totally shot that Slaanesh guy." "Yup, we bad." That is, until the kroot started eating the dead bodies of the cultists, and started mutating and turning on their fellows.

What about an experimental new type of ship? One that goes a bit deeper into the warp than other Tau craft? They don't have gellar fields, or even know that they need them. They test the craft, unmanned, and it seems to work fine (no souls on board). Then they try it manned, and things... go wrong. The people on board see strange visions, hear terrifying voices, and are in general freaked out. They arrive at their destination and leave the ship, but the ethereal seems to be acting strangely, and some of the warriors claim they can still see the visions, still hear the voices.

Or perhaps, a particular Tau commander feels it is unfair that he should have such a shorter lifespan than other races. Why can human Inquisitors live to be centuries old, yet he is going to die at 40? He begins an investigation into how to prolong the lifespan of important Tau leaders. The Ethereals are very interested, telling him to pursue this research for the "greater good". If the humans have the secrets of a longer lifespan, let us have them as well! On a distant world, through an intermediary, the commander makes contact with someone who claims to have been alive for a very long time, who says he cannot be killed by sickness or disease. All the commander need do is use a particular retro-virus, and any worries about his health will end.

Or, the Tau army has been defeated. The Ethereal has been slain, and the rest of the forces are stranded on a planet, their ships in orbit destroyed. The enemy outmaneuvered the Tau and struck while they were unprepared. As the commander leads his forces into the jungles for a guerilla-style war, he becomes angry. He saw the vulnerability in their deployment. He knew a clever enemy could have taken advantage of the situation. But the Ethereal had disregarded his advice, had left their rear unprotected. "The Greater Good demands we do blah blah blah." The Ethereal was a fool, and now he was dead. As the months go by and he sees more and more of his men killed, the commander's anger grows. His raids become brutal, punitive strikes on the civilian population of the world. The enemy must be broken, destroyed totally. Warriors should lead in war, not peacemakers. It should be someone with experience in battle, someone who knows about fighting, and carnage, and... blood.

The Orange
10-03-2009, 14:56
Yeah, people seem to hear 'Tau have a relatively small warp presence' and read that as 'Tau cannot be corrupted by Chaos, ever, for any reason'.

To my knowledge, GW haven't said anywhere that Tau are incorruptible. People are just making assumptions.

Darn, beaten to it. :p

I've always thought Chaos Tau was possible, but GW were too good at their propaganda drawing Tau out to be the perfect good guys :rolleyes:. Lol, anyone remember how the Tau almost caused their own genocide before the etherials came? When War and Plague was rife because the Fire caste/air caste wouldn't stop? yea, their not that nice.



That said, Khorne Tau would be hilarious.:D
*whistles* just keep your eye on Farsight ;) (who better to shatter the current Tau paradigm?) *whistles*

edit: hey some nice ideas massay

Mannimarco
10-03-2009, 15:04
chaos worshipping tau are wrong, tau getting possessed by random weapons/items are wrong

remember the tau have virtually no warp prescence, its kinnda hard to possess somthing with very little soul to latch on to

you cant even get to them through their dreams, i remember i while back there was a story about a tau who saw things when he slept, other tau found this very confusing so yes although they dream its not on a large enough scale to think they can get possessed

if you want chaos your pretty much stuck with the evil version of the guard and marines

oh and farsight is running around with a necron thing, not a chaos thing

Captain Micha
10-03-2009, 15:05
Just as the title says, is it plausible to get chaos tau?

I'm wanting to build a Slaanesh cult from tau, basicaly just tau, but cool paint and conversions.

The hilarity of this post is that is exactly what I am working on with my Tau.

After Medusa V my tau commander rebelled against the Ethereals and used the experimental warp drive to escape (They would have surely been lost to the warpstorm otherwise).

On the planet an Ethereal had sacrificed his second in command in a cowardly fashion so he could save his own skin, and the kroot and vespid had stayed behind so that the Tau forces could escape. This lead him to question the greater good, when the Ethereals proclaimed the efforts not worth the "sacrifice" he made the decision to not return to the Tau Empire. All of those Tau and Imperial citizens wasted on nothing.

They wound up fighting all sorts of nasty chaos daemons, and a daemonette was captured. She later took the form of an Ethereal, and is working presently to try and bring him over to the forces of chaos.

With the right background anything is possible.

Heck I don't even have Kroot or Vespid anymore. Instead I have converted guardsmen to fit both roles as new "human helpers" that are adept with technology. The Tau allow them to practice this adeptness because 1 they feel they can learn from the humans and 2 they know they don't have the man power anymore to hold back their allies.

Furthermore there are novels in which a Tau pretty much falls to Chaos (Firewarrior. I recommend everyone that likes 40k to read that book!). Tau have souls, warp presence does not = souls.

Also, Farsight is rumored to be under the influence of a Daemon weapon. (or a Necron weapon that was possessed by a Daemon)

Also during Medusa V gw released some Tau fluff describing some Tau going mad from the influences of the Warp. So if there's alot of Warp Storm going on, (which also explains their almost entire self destruction) Tau are quite capable of being influenced by the Warp. When they are away from the Empire I imagine this is doubly true.

There is more to doing this than spikes and tentacles though. Or at least should be. It can be alot of fun making the fluff and coming up with new special units.

The Orange
10-03-2009, 15:19
oh and farsight is running around with a necron thing, not a chaos thing

Right :rolleyes:, the look of the weapon totally overpowers the evidence for the former, blood brothers rule, the 8 bodyguard unit, the reduction in Farsights BS, the red armor, Farsights martial pride, the warrior caste taking prominence in the Farsight enclave, the bloodthirsty nature of one of Farsights pupils, etc.

Mannimarco
10-03-2009, 15:59
IIRC farsight is from the planet viorla, theyre origianl colour was red but gw changed it

8 bodyuard: could have just as easily been 7 or 9, means nothing, it was just done to be different

martial pride: wow a fire warrior commander has martial pride, who knew? but seriously farsight made his name fighting orks, of course he is going to take pride in his skill at arms, this also explains why his warriors can get +1ws, it represents combat experience fighting orks

warrior caste taking prominence: yep the boss likes his cronies in charge, lets move across the gulf into a pretty dangerous area......who should we have in charge? the water caste of course!

bloodthirsty nature of farsights pupil: i assume you mean the now deceased commander brightsword (o'var) who was responsable for the colgoth gorge massacre, didnt he stay loyal to the Aun and was sent off to attack the imperial world of sarcassa (es'tau)

remember farsight picked up the dawn blade on a relic world (probably read tomb world) fighting against an unknown enemy (gee i wonder who) where the ethereals leading the expedition were killed, instead of returning to tau space he headed off into what is now the farsight enclave taking his army with him, doesnt it stand to reason that his army would contain a ton of fire warriors with limited numbers of the other castes? couldnt this be why they are in charge

until i see a firewarrior running around with a sword of axe collecting skulls im going to stick by my original theory of its a necron weapon, lets look at the facts, n'dras was abbandoned by the tau, it just happens to be right next to an artifact world. Arnt the necrons ancient enemies of the eldar? wernt the ethereals created by the eldar? isnt it possible the necrons have long had something that blocks eldar abilites? isnt it more than likely farsights dawn blade cut off the fanatical brainwashed loyalty he held for the ethereals?

Captain Micha
10-03-2009, 16:13
No the Ethereals were -not- created by the Eldar.

Where did you get this?

Also the Ethereals control through pheremones (read Xenology) this is even hinted at in the 3e Tau dex. Not psychic power.

Let's see, his firewarriors -relish- melee combat (something decidedly not very Tau of them not even when they were in the Mont Tau). They heart them some red. Sounds to me alot like a certain Chaos god we all know and love.

He destroyed the long established system of Order for their race (gee doesn't this sound like a Chaos goal already). Replacing it with rulership by the Warriors. (who are arguably Bloodthirsty at this point).

He -killed- the Ethereals. (it's more or less what they say in the fluff) after acquiring his weapon.

There -is no precedence- at all for there being a Necron weapon that possesses or influences it's wielder what so ever. Otherwise the C'tan Phase Blades of the assassins of the Inquisition wouldn't be using them now would they? :

Nor does the Dawn Blade function anything remotely like a C'tan Phase blade which is most definitely the weapon of melee choice of the Necrontyr and C'tan. And -both- versions of the codex were made a good ways after the Crons and phase blades were.

Furthermore the Tau from Viorla (or whatever) are most associated with temper similar to that of Khorne. My guess is the Daemon weapon saw a very like minded individual with Farsight and went slaughter happy on the Ethereals.

Also the term Relic World does not mean Necrons. (nor is it even close to a term the Eldar use for them either so once again dispelling your Eldar Tau connection). As a matter of fact it's hinted that Relic weapons require a very incredibly strong will to use lest the Tau be taken over by them. As Necron weapons nor anyone else's weapons do any sort of taking over.. that leaves us with Chaos. (see the Paradox of Duality that Aun Va uses)

Face it, Farsight is the Tau's first Daemon Prince of Khorne.

MadJackMcJack
10-03-2009, 16:33
Wouldn't your standard cultist demonic possession ritual work on a Tau? AFAIK, having a low warp profile simply means that it's not worth the effort for a daemon to possess a Tau when rogue human psykers are far easier. Possessing a Tau or normal human would be like breaking into a house by smashing down a brick wall. Why bother when there's a flimsy screen window in an untrained psyker's mind? But when someone performs a possession ritual, they basically open the door for the daemon.

It could be possible that some Slaaneshi cultists on a human world annexed by the Tau started secretly corrupting or even possessing Tau, maybe even an Ethereal who then used his mojo jojo to corrupt his underlings. Meanwhile, sipping a glass of port and smoking a fine cuban cigar while reclining in his silk-padded chair, Tzeentch says "Exactly as planned".

Mannimarco
10-03-2009, 16:39
ive heard plent of stories on here and other sites that the eldar stole some king of alien bug queen type after they successfully beat a chaos force that had an almost identical little bone node thing the ethereals have, there were rumours and theories about the eldar having a connection to the tau (using them as a way to fight chaos as the have very little warp prescene and and virtually incorruptable)

if he killed his own ethereals then why was there confusion as to who the enemy were when he found his dawn blade? (1st tau codex)

how could he be possessed/corrupted when the tau have no soul (or very little) to corrupt

look at the marking on the blade itself? its not a particularly khornate looking thing is it?

Captain Micha
10-03-2009, 16:53
ive heard plent of stories on here and other sites that the eldar stole some king of alien bug queen type after they successfully beat a chaos force that had an almost identical little bone node thing the ethereals have, there were rumours and theories about the eldar having a connection to the tau (using them as a way to fight chaos as the have very little warp prescene and and virtually incorruptable)

if he killed his own ethereals then why was there confusion as to who the enemy were when he found his dawn blade? (1st tau codex)

how could he be possessed/corrupted when the tau have no soul (or very little) to corrupt

look at the marking on the blade itself? its not a particularly khornate looking thing is it?

Trust me there's nothing in chaos or the warp that has the ethereal diamond. Read Xenology for the critter with a similar pheromone system. Also, having little connection to the warp does not guarantee you being a good weapon against chaos and or the warp or else the Crons would be best at it. (and we know how well that went)

That's because there weren't any Ethereals to back up whatever his claim was, and or he felt no need to say anything beyond "we came under assault" given that he was embittered after the Ork incident it wouldn't surprise me one bit. He already had Doubt sown into him. Which as well all know leads to Heresy, which leads to Chaos inevitably.


Nothing in the Tau Codex or other material says Tau have no or little soul. They simply have a small presence in the warp. (I doubt you would say the humans have less soul than an Eldar does) they are the least conscious of the warp by far and thus their mind's influence on it is the smallest. It's a simple matter of awareness that determines warp presence. When a human dies his soul flutters through the warp blissfully unaware (assuming the Emperor doesn't have is own realm for Man) of the predators and etc in the warp.

When an Eldar dies he is aware of -everything- that happens to his soul in the warp. The human is "unconscious" and has a smaller presence in the warp, where the Eldar is awake and painfully aware.

It's happened at least three times in Tau fluff that I am aware of where Tau become corrupted by Chaos, none of which except Farsight's implication is in the codex. Medusa V, and Firewarrior.

The design doesn't mean much it could have been -any- race's weapon which later became possessed (i'm willing to say it was an Eldar weapon though given it's name being The Dawn Blade and it has a very Eldarish design). The daemon moved from the weapon to a much better host, in Farsight.

Aunva's Daemon weapon either has not turned on him yet, or the Slaanesh Daemon has not seen it fit to yet, or is being held in there by the Ethereal's Iron Will. (Again it's implied in Aunva's weapon fluff, along with the Ethereals out and out apparent immunity in the Firewarrior novel)

Also on the matter of warp presence and soul not being correlated necessarily are the Sisters Of Battle, who's sheer Faith in the God Emperor, and purity of souls grant them supernatural powers which are not psychic in nature.

sydbridges
10-03-2009, 17:35
Chaos Tau certainly seem possible. If trees can be corrupted by Chaos (and I remember there being terrain projects on the GW website for making Chaos Trees back before they pulled all the interesting information off and replaced it with the new, hateful website), I can't see why the Tau would be immune. It's not like the Chaos is anathema to them, they just don't have much warp presence, so it's not like they can't physically be corrupted.

Are large cults likely to spring up? I'd guess no. But it's a big galaxy, you can always come up with some reason. Perhaps the Tau colonized a world which seemed perfect, except it was actually Tzeentch daemon world which he had worshippers create near where there was a Tau expansion to corrupt some of the Tau because he's trying to make sure that even if the Tau somehow manage to pull off a highly unlikely victory over the Imperium over time and become the rulers of the galaxy, he'll still have influence. Or something.

Daredhnu
10-03-2009, 18:05
Just as the title says, is it plausible to get chaos tau?

I'm wanting to build a Slaanesh cult from tau, basicaly just tau, but cool paint and conversions.

NO YOUR DOING IT WRONG!!!

seriously though, if that's what you want to make go right ahead, just be prepared to be bombarded with comments like mine above.
due to the nature of the game certain people seem to have the idea that anything not expressly stated by GW is impossible, and thus wrong.
however i've seen the most awesome conversion of a dreadnought ever and it had a fully detailed interior with a guy piloting the dread.
is it canon? no. is it awesome? yes.

so go ahead, make slaanesh worshipping tau if that floats your boat and enjoy the game.

dal9ll
10-03-2009, 18:12
Horrible idea. Youre taking the goodiest goodie-two-shoes army and trying to pass them off as the most evil, badass army. It just doesnt doesnt sit right with me. If you want to play something shooting AND evil, just play Iron Warriors or Tzeentch Daemons or something.

Ubermensch Commander
10-03-2009, 18:16
*shrug* Possible but not all that plausible. Its also not really worth the effort on the part of Chaos. Without psykers roaming about, the Tau cannot really "hear" the whispers of the warp, so we are looking a physical artifact, such as a Daemon Weapon, but more likely some kind of horrible Icon the Tau decided to capture and study for "the greater good". Then it all goes downhil ala Dead Space. But again....an entire army of Chaos tau does not really jive with many players sensibilities. Probably because they are sick of everything having a "Chaos" thrown on the front of it to make it "cool". Chaos SoB, Chaos Grey Knights, Chaos Orks, Chaos Eldar, etc etc etc.

Chaos Kroot are actually more likely and have been addressed in the fluff. They munch on corrupted flesh and OOPs.

Bregalad
10-03-2009, 18:24
I really don't want to go through this again, but let's try to get some background facts into this thread:

1.) There is no Chaos Tau mentioned in the Codex, rule book or even BL novels. On the contrary, it is stated that Tau have almost no warp presence and are therefore practically invisible to Chaos forces. So they are about on one level with Grey Knights: Might be corruptable but never heard of any.
2.) There is no Chaos Tau option in the scenarios of the Daemon Hunter Codex. If the Daemon Hunters can't think of Tau corruption, noone can.
3.) In the novel "Fire Warrior" (a PC egoshooter novelization), a Tau army meets Chaos forces. The daemon prince sees only in one of a million Tau the chance to corrupt him. This already exhausted fire warrior is attacked by daemons of all 4 Chaos gods in a row trying to corrupt him. They all fail miserably. The fire warrior ends broken but uncorrupted.
4.) The ethereals have a special influence on the Chaos resistance of the Tau race. While the book Xenology hints at Eldar manipulating and creating the ethereals to create a race immune to Chaos, other books at least suggest a soothing and calming influence by them, probably supported by pheromones, but obviously not alone by that.
5.) Tau are not robots. They even had a bloody civil war leading the race to the rim of self destruction. The appearance and charisma of ethereals led them to peace. So they now are in a culture of self discipline, low emotions, friendliness andpragmatics. While on Warseer Civil-war=freedom/good and peace=evil/oppression, some 40k gamers like me like a race that doesn't want to kill everything on sight, for a change.
6.) Sticking tentacles and EVILZZ spikes to everything is just so booooring and not adding interest to the Tau concept.

Mannimarco
10-03-2009, 18:42
bregalad wins this thread

Freakiq
10-03-2009, 18:42
You can do what you want but it feels very much like when kids try out D&D and always play evil paladins.

There seem to be too many people playing Chaos Tau, Chaos Grey Knights, Loyalist Chaos Marines and Tyranid serving Space Marines.

If you don't like how GW writes the fluff why not just make up your own universe instead of raping theirs?

dal9ll
10-03-2009, 18:48
You can do what you want but it feels very much like when kids try out D&D and always play evil paladins.

There seem to be too many people playing Chaos Tau, Chaos Grey Knights, Loyalist Chaos Marines and Tyranid serving Space Marines.

If you don't like how GW writes the fluff why not just make up your own universe instead of raping theirs?


^^WORD, Freakiq.

Captain Micha
10-03-2009, 18:56
Horrible idea. Youre taking the goodiest goodie-two-shoes army and trying to pass them off as the most evil, badass army. It just doesnt doesnt sit right with me. If you want to play something shooting AND evil, just play Iron Warriors or Tzeentch Daemons or something.

Oh please no one cares about Emo Space Marines that daddy didn't love enough that run around with spikes on their power armor.


I really don't want to go through this again, but let's try to get some background facts into this thread:

1.) There is no Chaos Tau mentioned in the Codex, rule book or even BL novels. On the contrary, it is stated that Tau have almost no warp presence and are therefore practically invisible to Chaos forces. So they are about on one level with Grey Knights: Might be corruptable but never heard of any.
2.) There is no Chaos Tau option in the scenarios of the Daemon Hunter Codex. If the Daemon Hunters can't think of Tau corruption, noone can.
3.) In the novel "Fire Warrior" (a PC egoshooter novelization), a Tau army meets Chaos forces. The daemon prince sees only in one of a million Tau the chance to corrupt him. This already exhausted fire warrior is attacked by daemons of all 4 Chaos gods in a row trying to corrupt him. They all fail miserably. The fire warrior ends broken but uncorrupted.
4.) The ethereals have a special influence on the Chaos resistance of the Tau race. While the book Xenology hints at Eldar manipulating and creating the ethereals to create a race immune to Chaos, other books at least suggest a soothing and calming influence by them, probably supported by pheromones, but obviously not alone by that.
5.) Tau are not robots. They even had a bloody civil war leading the race to the rim of self destruction. The appearance and charisma of ethereals led them to peace. So they now are in a culture of self discipline, low emotions, friendliness andpragmatics. While on Warseer Civil-war=freedom/good and peace=evil/oppression, some 40k gamers like me like a race that doesn't want to kill everything on sight, for a change.
6.) Sticking tentacles and EVILZZ spikes to everything is just so booooring and not adding interest to the Tau concept.

Funny I remember Kais -failing- and the UltraSmurf coming in to help him destroy the pillars in Firewarrior as a matter of fact Kais even screams "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!"

Furthermore it's quite clear without Ethereal Presence the Fire Caste goes pretty much right back to their Warlike roots. As evidenced by Far Sight, and probably Brightsword as well. (the one that was "too brutal")

Also turning Tau to chaos does not out of hand violate their principles. Corruption doesn't have to change the goals. (Souldrinkers anyone? Heck even NightLords to a lesser degree!)

Point 6 again it can be far more than spikes. I don't get what you have against this so vehemently other than "NO IT IS NOT GW NO NO NO NNO THEY NEVER SAY THIS HAPPENS THERE FORE IT DOES NOT !!!!!"

I think you are misplacing your anger at Chaos Tau, what you are really -angry- about is badly done armies and fluff. (Which really should you be angry at fans for? Just look at the Dark Eldar and Chaos Space Marines)

Furthermore what gives you the right to say what does and doesn't go in someone's army fluff? I'm sorry if Gw or anyone told me my guard had to be untrained superstitious ****** like theirs are I would tell them to go take a shovel and ram it up their rear for three days to get their head out of their hindquaters. Same deal with my Tau Fluff or any army.



You can do what you want but it feels very much like when kids try out D&D and always play evil paladins.

There seem to be too many people playing Chaos Tau, Chaos Grey Knights, Loyalist Chaos Marines and Tyranid serving Space Marines.

If you don't like how GW writes the fluff why not just make up your own universe instead of raping theirs?

Oh yes, since evil gods so wouldn't have some form of Militarized Champion of their belief :eyeroll: Evil gods need Champions too. Luckily Wizards of the Coast snapped out of their Gygaxian hard on and realized that yes Evil Gods would have their own Paladins and Angels (devils and demons? Please far too untrustworthy)

sneb
10-03-2009, 19:14
Just go ahead and do a slaneesh theme with your tau
If its looks cool to you, just do it. you'll find that the vast majority of people who see your army will think "wow cool" not "OMG TEH TAU CANNOT WORSHIP CHAOSSSS!!!11"

The game would be really boring if everyone decided drop creativity in favor of making there armies strictly based of the source material (there would be about 5 blue marine armies for every non-blue marine army too:P)

Col. Tartleton
10-03-2009, 20:37
The Dawn Blade is Eldar in nature. It belonged to a Wraith lord IMO.

Look how similar they are.

Farsight communes with the spirit of an ancient long dead Eldar prince. The Enemy he fought were the guardians of that maiden world.

Khornate Fireball (Ork)
10-03-2009, 21:31
...2...1.... tadaaa :p

Just have a look at all other Chaos Tau threads where this has been discussed/flamed to death. Let's just say, you are not alone on Warseer with the "let's stick tentacles and spikes to the purest thing I can find" fetish :rolleyes:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120730
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86170
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55992
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40404
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34577
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163959
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103562
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85394
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26457

If you need Chaos Sororitas, Chaos Grey Knights and Chaos Eldar thread links, just ask :angel:

Edit: @Lord Damocles: Too late :evilgrin:

Yeah, hit me up with some Slaaneshi Sororitas! :D

Chaos Grey Knight threads would also be interesting, if only for the lulz.

ard boy stu
10-03-2009, 22:13
List man if u want to do it, do it as long as it dosent break any rules then its fine
any way must pepole will enjoy fighting such a cool looking army

omera
10-03-2009, 22:23
That said, Khorne Tau would be hilarious.:D
.
What about CHAOS RATLINGS?
Edit: Khornite ratlings.

SwordJon
10-03-2009, 22:26
You can do whatever you want, but just remember, no complaining when people make fun of you for it. And they (I) will. You've been warned.

ard boy stu
10-03-2009, 22:30
Remember as long as you like your army it dosent matter wht others think

dal9ll
10-03-2009, 22:35
Oh please no one cares about Emo Space Marines that daddy didn't love enough that run around with spikes on their power armor.

No one cares about Chaos Space Marines but they care about Tau? Is that what you are saying? Whatthe hell is your point anyway?

If youre describing the entirety of CSM as Emo Space Marines, etc. thats huge generalization that I simply will not tolerate.

How can you possibly justify ripping on ACTUAL Chaos, while supporting something a baseless as Chaos Tau??

PhantomRonin
10-03-2009, 22:40
An actual faction would kick ass if GW would do it. Mutated tau? yes please!

Nykster
10-03-2009, 22:56
My original thoughts were that a group of tau began to "perfect" warshipping the greater good. They become so prideful in their perfection and the gratification it brings, that they can't help not being noticed by Slaanesh who quitetly whispers sweet nothings into their ears(the whole "what about me" concept). Several years later they are a lustful group of self loathing, gratification seeking, hipocrites who can't re-join the greater good and thus, due to no other viable option, relent to the hands of the pleasure god. Tau have to worship something.
Sounds like the eldar all over again, to a smaller degree of course.

By no means to I want to mutate them obscenely either. The taint of Slaanesh is not to deform them with physical mutations, but to twist their idea of the greater good to a more carnal and self gratification ideal. They are still working to achive the greater good, their understanding of the greater good has changed. This could be because they have had little communication with other Tau due to warp storms, thier lines of communication being cut off by enemies, their loss of an ethereal etc.

Due to their small warp presence, mutations are very unlikely anyway.

I realize now that this has been discussed to death before, but by no means did I think that anyone had such strong feelings about it.

I'll try to get some models converted and painted and get some pics up soon.

The Orange
10-03-2009, 23:23
IIRC farsight is from the planet viorla, theyre origianl colour was red but gw changed it
I think their sept color is still red (the small color markings), but he's still a big red robot. It's not a big target saying that he has indeed turned to khone, but it can be taken as a hint. And apparently the only counter argument is to turn a blind eye.


8 bodyuard: could have just as easily been 7 or 9, means nothing, it was just done to be different
Yea and his sword was made just to look different so there goes your Necron theory :rolleyes:. Seriously though, we go from a unit of 3 to a unit of 8. For what reason? Their is no obvious one, and frankly the excuse "GW could have used any number" is silly idol speculation. It's the blind eye excuse again, your just choosing not to see it instead of actually refuting the fact. The fact is GW did use the number 8.


martial pride: wow a fire warrior commander has martial pride, who knew?
Thus their more susceptible, their pride is being used as a weakness. Just like how the Voir'la are hot blooded, it's just another thing that makes them susceptible.


remember farsight picked up the dawn blade on a relic world (probably read tomb world) fighting against an unknown enemy (gee i wonder who)
Hum...funny how both daemons can also fit that boot.

Throwing in some moral support for Captain Micha, he pretty much covered everything else I wanted to say. Again, just keep watching Farsight. If GW can ever get past their snail speed development of fluff I guarantee you'll be seeing him take up the Khone mantle. I'm not saying he has yet, but he's definitely going down the road unknowingly. It's kind of sad that GW would go with the Chaos Tau idea, yea a bit predictable and I was really hoping that GW would do something more interesting with him, but the "hints" are their and I personally don't see why so many people wish to act blind when their pointed out.

If anyone it would be Farsight, who's without etheral support, who's separated from the Tau Empire, who's stuck fighting another army with great martial pride (orks love to fight), who's a bit prideful himself (underestimating orks in the ork codex), who's people are known to be hot blooded, who's disillusioned (untrusting of the greater good, as well as that quote about how all the great powers are set against each other so why should he do different), who's that 1 in a million Tau who can be corrupted. And common, Tau are a shooting army and he's the Special Character with a Sword...it doesn't get more obvious then that.

Not a bad idea Nykster, and honestly as long as your army looks good most people won't give much of a crap. Personally though, I've always contemplated a zombie Tau army :).

Bregalad
11-03-2009, 00:18
Furthermore what gives you the right to say what does and doesn't go in someone's army fluff?
Erm... because he asked :rolleyes:


The game would be really boring if everyone decided drop creativity in favor of making there armies strictly based of the source material
Yeah, and the game would be really exciting and visually enhanced, if every freaking army had spikes and tentacles to prove the owners originality and creativity :rolleyes:


Remember as long as you like your army it dosent matter wht others think
Remember, that it matters what your potential opponents think. If they go :wtf: , you have a problem.


My original thoughts were that a group of tau began to "perfect" warshipping the greater good. (...)

Due to their small warp presence, mutations are very unlikely anyway.

I realize now that this has been discussed to death before, but by no means did I think that anyone had such strong feelings about it.

I'll try to get some models converted and painted and get some pics up soon.
As you have already realized, this only works without the presence of ethereals, which is hard in a "Greater Good cult". Let one ethereal come close to this army, and your concept crumbles to dust.

Making a Chaos Tau army that looks exactly like a non-Chaos-Tau army, only with secret "naughty" thoughts, is no challenge and would go unnoticed on the gaming board. If that makes you happy ...

In one of the later Chaos tau threads I challenged the readers to not only speak of a possible Chaos Tau army but actually show a decently modelled one (without tentacles and spikes) that justified raping the official background. Unsurprisingly, not one showed up. Maybe you can show me something worth the ChaosTau=UltimateCreativity hype.

ehlijen
11-03-2009, 00:19
What if GW doesn't want it to ever be known whether Farsight is chaosy or necrony or just simply fed up with ethereals?

The way it is as of now, everyone can make up their own reason why he deserted. GW (or anyone else) rushing in and telling all but one group that they're wrong is just going to reduce the like for the character all around.

Yes, he's red and has 7 buddies. He also has a necron sword. He has also been abondoned to ork hordes by his ethereal overlords and has expressed his dislike for sacrificing fire warriors like that.

Khorne? Necron? Leader driven into exile by his cruel superiors? They are all valid explanations.

Not every act of dissidence automatically leads to chaos spikes and tentacles, not even in the Imperium. And that's what all the chaos+x protesters dislike about it: the apparant inability to defect without immediatly praying to a chaos god that that implies.

Let things be evil and corrupt without the help of deamons every now and then. It helps the setting, as otherwise we'd just have goody two shoes and goody two shoes on chaos.

Bregalad
11-03-2009, 00:42
On Farsight:
1.) The ethereals accompanying him died in the fight, they didn't abandon him.
2.) Farsight loves close combat and doesn't avoid massacres. Ethereals are the ones that value the life of their Tau and non-Tau soldiers.
3.) The most convincing rumour on Farsight's sword says that it is an Eldar artefact, a special sword made by Vaul and hidden from Khaine.
4.) Massacre-happy Commander Brightsword is a direct pupil of Farsight BTW. He is sacked after his massacre. In the dubious plot of the BL novel "Kill team", Brightsword is finally assassinated by a secret ethereal conspiracy, by hired human madsmen BTW.
5.) Official background leaves it open, if Farsight still has secret ties with the Tau Empire, so while he is officially outcast, he may still cooperate in secret.

The Orange
11-03-2009, 00:46
Yeah, and the game would be really exciting and visually enhanced, if every freaking army had spikes and tentacles to prove the owners originality and creativity :rolleyes:
Yea and Chaos Tau + the mention of conversion automatically mean that all their going to do is glue on spiky bits and tentacles. The OP made no mention of what kind of conversions he was planning on doing, so it's nice to see you've jumped ahead of even him and already started scolding him on what he was about to do :rolleyes:.


Unsurprisingly, not one showed up. Maybe you can show me something worth the ChaosTau=UltimateCreativity hype.
Lol, sorry Bregalad I didn't have the time or money to trow away just to make a retort on the interwebz.


What if GW doesn't want it to ever be known whether Farsight is chaosy or necrony or just simply fed up with ethereals?
Then the door is still open for all interpretations. Yet currently anyone who so much as mentions Chaos and Tau in the same sentince has the "goody goody Tau gestapo" jump on them. :eyebrows: And personally that's what peeves me.



And that's what all the chaos+x protesters dislike about it: the apparant inability to defect without immediatly praying to a chaos god that that implies.
More like they just can't stand the thought or the squeaky clean image of Tau being marred by anything Chaos. Every single time the idea comes up all they do is jump on the same single line out of IIRC the Inquisitor game books. "Tau have a small warp presence" thus their untouchable by Chaos :rolleyes:. They just can't accept that when asking if its possible all their needs to be is a possibility no matter how small. And not only is that possibility there but GW are already driving towards it. Farsight is already creating a schisim in the Tau Empire and that is due to the warmongering nature of the Fire Caste, and which Chaos God do you think is most easily placed to take advantage of that "dun dun dun"?

Edit:


5.) Official background leaves it open, if Farsight still has secret ties with the Tau Empire, so while he is officially outcast, he may still cooperate in secret.
The fact that Farsight is causing a schism in the Firecaste (read a big headache for the etherals) makes me doubt that now. GW simply aren't that complicated in their fluff writing (i.e. I don't think GW wrote that schism bit to show how the whole secret plan with Farsight bit them in the backsides).

sydbridges
11-03-2009, 01:32
In one of the later Chaos tau threads I challenged the readers to not only speak of a possible Chaos Tau army but actually show a decently modelled one (without tentacles and spikes) that justified raping the official background. Unsurprisingly, not one showed up. Maybe you can show me something worth the ChaosTau=UltimateCreativity hype.

Really? This rapes the fluff? I suppose Chaos Eldar molests the fluff's children before murdering them and then stuffing their tiny bodies in their crawl space. Chaos Orks aborts the fluff's baby after raping the fluff and getting the fluff pregnant.

Are you arguing that humans are the only beings to ever experience emotion? That every other race is made up entirely of cold, unfeeling robots which never experience joy, hate, love, sadness, which never for a second ask, "could this benefit me?" which never for a second think, "I don't want to die"? Perhaps every single race is actually just Necron Flayed Ones wearing skins and funny hats and pretending to be all the other non-human races, emotionlessly going through the motions of hate, having over thousands of thousands of years lost any ability to actually feel the emotions that would have driven their murderous rampages, a depressing shell of what they once were.

If we're NOT arguing that the Tau are completely devoid of emotion, then there is the potential for corruption. It might not be likely (the Eldar spend a great deal of effort not being corrupted, for example), but it's possible. Chaos doesn't have to come to you and ask if you'd like to be corrupted - it's not "If the devil didn't ask you to do it, it didn't count as evil." You can fall to Chaos without a Daemonette showing up at your door during a recruitment drive and having you fill out your official application to the Ruinous Powers.

And if it's possible, it does not "rape the fluff." You might dislike it, but it's not like he's making an army based around the concept that Horus was actually a Squat pirate and that the Emperor was actually a cleverly disguised Void Whale named Francis who was just looking to unite the three pieces of the Triforce to bring about human instrumentality while zipping about in his time-traveling police box. And even that doesn't so much 'rape' the fluff as it 'completely disregards the fluff, badly.'

ehlijen
11-03-2009, 03:17
I wasn't talking about the ethereals that died on farsight's mission. I was talking about his campaign against the orks before where farsight was forced to fight for longer than he believed to be necessary due to what he called inadequate support.

And why does any chaos god have to be involved because farsight split off? Why can't he have split off for very good reasons on his own?

The idea that chaos corrupts everything and everyone is what creates the idea of squishy clean races. If behind every corruption ever lurks a chaos god, that means that without them, everyone would be a perfectly happy member of their respective society, regardless of what race.
It takes people being evil, corrupt or seperatist on their own to create an interesting race of non-automatons. If its all just chaos' doing, you instead create those automatons.

Yes, Farsight is creating a splinter faction of violent Tau. No, that does not mean Khorne must be involved. He might be, but there's also plenty of other explanations. All of them valid ones, for as long as GW is vague about it, which they like being. Chaos has just as many hints speaking for it as eldar, Necron or personal grievances.

Imperialis_Dominatus
11-03-2009, 04:12
Hay guise, wat's goin on in dis thred? (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_JsKZ1YCU6Z4/Ry5gfpQ8JhI/AAAAAAAAAZY/zDYxx0GKViw/s1600-h/P1000145.JPG)


humans getting possessed by random weapons/items are wrong

Fixed.

Wait, what?


remember the tau have virtually no warp prescence, its kinnda hard to possess somthing with very little soul to latch on to

Because the difficult is impossible.


you cant even get to them through their dreams, i remember i while back there was a story about a tau who saw things when he slept, other tau found this very confusing so yes although they dream its not on a large enough scale to think they can get possessed

I can barely understand your syntax here, much less what you mean.


if you want chaos your pretty much stuck with the evil version of the guard and marines

...anyone with an imagination just might disagree.


oh and farsight is running around with a necron thing, not a chaos thing

Objective fact. Oh wait. Not. Your interpretation is not gospel. Don't spit on the interpretations of others like that.


What if GW doesn't want it to ever be known whether Farsight is chaosy or necrony or just simply fed up with ethereals?

QFT. Who says they want to reveal the answer? 40k is a setting. If you want advancement, read fanfic (though don't say we didn't warn you... (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Love_Can_Bloom)).


Let things be evil and corrupt without the help of deamons every now and then. It helps the setting, as otherwise we'd just have goody two shoes and goody two shoes on chaos.

YES! Thank you. QFT again. We need more of this in 40k.

Lord-Caerolion
11-03-2009, 05:29
Bregalad, don't just assume that people doing Chaos Tau are just going to stick spikes on everything, and paint it black. Just because it hasn't been done yet, and Dominatus proves that wrong, doesn't mean it won't happen. After all, perhaps your much sought-after original Chaos Tau army was abandoned after the prospective owner saw how many people would shove their prejudices down his throat. Your argument is summarised as "I've never seen a good one, BUT NEVER DO ONE!!1!"

Also, just because something has a low warp presence doesn't mean it can't be corrupted. Several possible situations have been explained, yet you dismiss them because a daemon aparrently won't ever possess a Tau. Funnily enough, you don't have to be possessed to worship Chaos. You don't even have to be possessed just to turn to Chaos. But somehow, the low warp-presence of the Tau completely protects them from all forms of corruption, apparently.

Some of you have stated that the Tau wouldn't turn to Chaos because they don't believe in Daemons. Well, Horus didn't believe in Daemons, and guess what happened to him? Who says the daemons don't present themselves as what they actually are, trans-dimensional beings? Sure, a Tau might scoff if a daemon tells him its a daemon, but imagine the response of the Earth caste when one is contacted by a real, living being in the Warp! A whole new culture to investigate! Think of the knowledge they could gain from such a race! The Tau obsession with study and learning would bring them further and further into damnation.

What about, as others have said, an Event Horizon type scenario? Experimental Warp drive, works fine with just the drones, but when used on a manned flight, shoves them that bit too far in the Warp, without a Gellar Field? Death and insanity set in, the Ethereal comes out claiming to have had the "true form of galaxies" shown to him, and sets out to writing his ideas out in a book. He develops a new interpretation of the Greater Good, and due to his rhetoric he gains a large following of multiple castes.

Two perfectly good explanations of how Tau can be turned to Chaos. Neither involve possession by a Daemon, circumventing your precious "low Warp presence" argument. Neither need spikes stuck to anything. Hell, neither need that big a change of what the models look like. So please, stop shoving your own prejudices in other peoples faces. It is perfectly possible, and just because some kids though "heh, Tau plus spikes = teh Chaos Tau!!1!" doesn't mean others might not approach it in a different way.

EDIT: And Dominatus, who's army is that? I'd like to see more of it, it looks pretty good.

holmcross
11-03-2009, 06:39
"Evil _____" is probably the greatest writing known to man.

It never gets old, and certainly never becomes a cliché.

Industrial Propaganda
11-03-2009, 11:42
"Evil _____" is probably the greatest writing known to man.

It never gets old, and certainly never becomes a cliché.

That's the problem. It will always be so in any system. TEH EVUL PALAD1NZ LOLZZ !

Chaos Tau & Chaos Grey Knights are the summum of bad taste (Chaos Orks, Eye of Terror Eldars, Chaos Sisters of Battle, corrupted by Chaos/Technovirus Tyranids are at least supported by some fluff but,...).

Often, raping GW fluff in the name of imagination/creativity doesn't mean it's a good idea. And results that I never saw good looking chaos tau nor chaos grey knights models...

Lord-Caerolion
11-03-2009, 11:48
But where does it state that Tau are resistant to Chaos? I've already shown that Chaos can easily corrupt Tau without having to possess someone. The smaller warp presence isn't a perfect defence!

Seriously peoples, give me a proper statement from GW that Tau can never turn to Chaos, and I'll believe it. Until then, they are fallible, just like basically everybody else. The only things I see that are purely resistant to Chaos are the Grey Knights.

Also Industrial Propaganda, how are Crone-world Eldar a bad idea, or in bad taste? It's written in canon fluff that they are some of the most favoured champions of Chaos!

Poseidal
11-03-2009, 12:05
Actually, perhaps one of the things that is open to corruption is their AI.

The amount of AI the Tau use, perhaps you could expect some to start 'behaving strangely' and subtly changing some orders. Perhaps even pandering to a specific Tau commander's ego or pride or whatnot.

Or even a scenario with loads of uncorrupted Fire Warriors fighting against a horde of Chaos Gun-Drones and Shield Drones.

Industrial Propaganda
11-03-2009, 12:05
Also Industrial Propaganda, how are Crone-world Eldar a bad idea, or in bad taste? It's written in canon fluff that they are some of the most favoured champions of Chaos!

This cannon fluff is from 2nd (back to the 90's) and has never since recieved support again from GW.

But I know that doesn't mean that they do not exist. I understand also that Ahra is an Eldar chaos champion.

The only thing that shock my puritan fluff visions about the Crone-world chaos eldars is : why doesn't Slaanesh kill them to feed her apetite or how/why does those crone-world eldars survived the initial psychic scream when Slaanesh appeared in the Galaxy. It's no sence.

But this is off-topic.

Bregalad
11-03-2009, 12:09
But where does it state that Tau are resistant to Chaos?
Again:
1.) No mention of the possibility or existence of Chaos Tau in the Codex.
2.) GW can't imagine any scenario in the Daemon Hunter Codex, where Tau are corrupted by Chaos. They can for most other races.
3.) In the novel "Fire Warrior", the attempt to corrupt the one in a million Fire Warrior with the slightest chance of being corrupted, fails miserably, even under bad conditions and with all 4 Chaos forces attacking an exhausted low level Fire Warrior in a row: He survives broken but uncorrupted and kills the Daemon Prince.
4.) If you believe Xenology, Eldar made ethereals to create a race immune to Chaos corruption.
... and so on.

BTW, keep in mind that "there might be the slighest chance under exceptional circumstances" is not equal to "of course there are many armies of thousands of corrupted Chaos Tau around". Grey Knights may also be corruptable in principle, but it never happened.

Lord-Caerolion
11-03-2009, 12:18
1. It doesn't state Imperial Guard can fall to Chaos in the Imperial Guard codex either. Whats your point? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Using your logic, your Tau cadre has never officially been spoken of in any GW stuff, therefore it doesn't exist.
2. GW not coming up with a sensible reason means we should believe them? Gee, guess we should stop complaining about any other fluff reasoning they use then.
3. It's Fire Warrior. A book based on a video game based on a table-top game. Books based just on games suck badly, and this has a single Tau warrior kill a Daemon Prince, for crying out loud. I wouldn't trust it that much. And Black Library is generally ranted at for being bad quality, yet now it's being held up as immutable canon.
4. No, I don't believe Xenology. I found it a horrible book, creating conspiracy theories just for the sake of it. Plus, see above about Black Library.

Plus, you haven't refuted my indirect methods of Tau falling to Chaos. Falling to Chaos does not necessarily involve being possessed. Why can't people see that? It merely gives protection against possesion, which is not the same as protection against corruption, and possession is not the same as turning to Chaos. A Tau could easily be swayed by reading and studying a Chaos book. It doesn't mean he's been possessed, yet he has become influenced by Chaos.

Poseidal
11-03-2009, 12:44
The only thing that shock my puritan fluff visions about the Crone-world chaos eldars is : why doesn't Slaanesh kill them to feed her apetite or how/why does those crone-world eldars survived the initial psychic scream when Slaanesh appeared in the Galaxy. It's no sence.
There are two easy explanations to this and both can be true at the same time:

1. They already have been. Being 'consumed' by Slaanesh is actually being absorbed and becoming part of it. If they are the 'highest' champions they are probably Daemon Princes; in this way they are already 'consumed' and thus 'part' of Slaanesh. Slaanesh isn't literally a creature that munches on Eldar like cheetos.

2. They are dedicated to one of the other powers. In this case, they would have a greater hold and (especially Khorne) actively try an prevent Slaanesh from consuming the champion.

In the case of Ahra, it says he 'burns with the light of Chaos' but he hasn't been consumed; also, he was head of a Warrior order dedicated to Khaine (who was very much identified with Khorne which is what he wasn't consumed) that was known to be bloodthirsty (as Karandras replaced this facet with that of the hunter). I think it's likely that Ahra has fallen to Khorne.

Drongol
11-03-2009, 12:51
And Black Library is generally ranted at for being bad quality...

This is undoubtedly true, and yet I'm more likely to view a sourcebook like Xenology as more "canon" than any of the novels. I'm not sure why, but it just feels more official to me. Does that make any sense?

Back on topic, "Chaos + (Insert Race Here)" was tired ten years ago. Now, it's hibernating. To the OP, they're your models and you can do whatever you like with them, but please understand that the very concept of Chaos Tau is going to make some of your opponents roll their eyes and assume that you've degraded to a 13-year-old.

"Dark Paladin" is a phase that just about every gamer goes through. It's fun to play a rebel and there's just something cool about saying "screw the world, I'm going to do what I want." Most gamers get through this phase and move on to making characters (and armies) that are more plausible in the background.

A final word of warning: themed armies rapidly lose their charm, and after that, players get tired of them. The first few times you bring the army to the store, people might ooh and ahh (if you're lucky/skilled, anyways), but eventually you become the guy with the Chaos Tau. So make sure you're really wanting to do this before diving in, or else you'll find yourself wishing you didn't spend all that money to make a short-lived "joke" army.

Drongol

Lord-Caerolion
11-03-2009, 13:01
This is undoubtedly true, and yet I'm more likely to view a sourcebook like Xenology as more "canon" than any of the novels. I'm not sure why, but it just feels more official to me. Does that make any sense?

Kind of, but it also feels slightly hypocritical. Bag everything they do, but as soon as something backs up an argument, it can't be argued with, because it's canon. Not knocking you in any way, I know what you're saying. The point still remains that Xenology was written by Black Library, just like any of their other books, but just wasn't written as a novel.

Neither GW nor Black Library says to take their books as gospel truth, yet thats what people do here, and we're fluff rapists if we go against it. Don't get me wrong, I hold Black Library as the key point of some of my arguments about Chaos, but I keep it as an interpretation. I don't accuse people of raping fluff if they disregard it. That's the key difference.

Also, Xenology still doesn't give a reason for why Tau can't be indirectly influenced by Chaos, it only hints that they might be resistant to possession, which is an entirely different thing.


A final word of warning: themed armies rapidly lose their charm, and after that, players get tired of them.

Well, thats a good argument, if you're making the army purely for the enjoyment of others. I've made my themed Night Lords army, have had it for a fair while now, and still thoroughly enjoy it. If the OP wants to make a Chaos-influenced Tau army for himself, then he's free to go ahead. If he's willing to put the time, money and energy into creating it, then he can do what he likes. It's within the bounds of fluff, and I hope he has a blast doing it.
If he's doing it to show off to people, and to impress them, then your point might hold true.

Industrial Propaganda
11-03-2009, 13:12
Kind of, but it also feels slightly hypocritical. Bag everything they do, but as soon as something backs up an argument, it can't be argued with, because it's canon. Not knocking you in any way, I know what you're saying. The point still remains that Xenology was written by Black Library, just like any of their other books, but just wasn't written as a novel.

Neither GW nor Black Library says to take their books as gospel truth, yet thats what people do here, and we're fluff rapists if we go against it. Don't get me wrong, I hold Black Library as the key point of some of my arguments about Chaos, but I keep it as an interpretation. I don't accuse people of raping fluff if they disregard it. That's the key difference.

Well saying that the Black Library stuff is cannon, is highly doubtable.

Take the french department of BL (Bibliothèque Interdite). They won't traduce Xenology and the Horus Heresy book "Battle for the Abyss" because they decided that those books are unfluffy and/or bad written (we jump from Legion to Mechanicum). So from a french talking GW player/fluff reader perspective, we can say that those books are fantasm and don't exist ? :confused:

Poseidal
11-03-2009, 13:27
Well saying that the Black Library stuff is cannon, is highly doubtable.
For a start, I've never managed to launch a projectile from one in any meaningful way, let alone breach the side of a ship with one.

If it's worth anything to anyone, as far as 'canoninity' goes I regard 1st hand publications like Rulebooks, Codices, Specialist Games PDF sheets and WD as all inclusive, and check any direct contradictions in them with explaination enough to be sensible and fit, or as ret-con if the former isn't possible.

I regards BL as 'secondary' so I will (reasonably) accept it unless it's directly contradicted by a 1st hand publication.

I will also rate any player's own interpretation around the same as any BL publication as the whole point of the background is for people to make up their own stuff for it; which is exactly what BL is for the most part.

In personal campaigns and story though, the player comes first (even above official rulebook) as it is their narrative. If Abaddy gets killed in their story campaign due to a game, that's what happens there. BUT - this should never affect what happens in the 'published' canon so is disregarded for these things.

Of course, this is all subject to my whim.

Zzarchov
11-03-2009, 13:50
The Tau can be corrupted about as easily as a rock, plant, dog or horse. Which is to say, put them on a daemon world and they will mutate, go insane and do the bidding of the lord of the planet.

A small warp presence is only a defense in that the chaos powers don't WANT Tau (at least not enough to expend real effort). A warp presence is the amount of power a soul has. More powerful souls are more valuable currency to the dark powers in their wars amngst each other in their home dimension, the warp.

Corrupting souls is alot like robbery. They love to corrupt Eldar because an Eldar has such a strong soul, its like mugging a rich guy with 3 grande in his pocket, humans? They are ok, they got $50 in their wallet for drinks later, and Tau? They are hobos with 4 cents and an expired subway token.

Why would a chaos god/demon/priest waste power and influence he could use converting other races and stealing their souls, to steal Tau souls? Unless corrupting the Tau has some immediate purpose to corrupt others (like maybe a planet full of Kroot or Humans), not worth it.


Seeing Chaos powers also wouldn't shift any Tau worldview. Demons and "gods" are just powerful aliens from another dimension and would be labelled as such. An ethereal or water caste making deal with demons would just view it as incorporating another race into the empire.

You want "Souls"...fine komrad, welcome to the empire, ensure their bodies and minds work for the empire, producing war goods and you may have what intangibles you wish!

Captain Micha
11-03-2009, 14:04
No one cares about Chaos Space Marines but they care about Tau? Is that what you are saying? Whatthe hell is your point anyway?

If youre describing the entirety of CSM as Emo Space Marines, etc. thats huge generalization that I simply will not tolerate.

How can you possibly justify ripping on ACTUAL Chaos, while supporting something a baseless as Chaos Tau??

There's far more to chaos than the Emo Marines.

Daemons for a start. Possessed for another, cultists and mutants etc etc etc etc.

Daddy didn't love certain Legions enough, so in their emo rage they turned to chaos their favorite brothers teamed up with them and they tried to kill daddy.

Ps Imperialis Dominatus, that's an awesome Tau army!

The Orange, thanks for the support!

Drongol
11-03-2009, 18:09
Kind of, but it also feels slightly hypocritical.

Oh, it is hypocritical. I fully admit it. There's just some gamer bone in me that says "sourcebook = official" and "game novel = megacrap." Now, keep in mind that I've never even read Xenology, and I have no real intention of doing so. My argument might be a little flawed. ;)


Well, thats a good argument, if you're making the army purely for the enjoyment of others. I've made my themed Night Lords army, have had it for a fair while now, and still thoroughly enjoy it.

Terribly sorry. It appears I wasn't clear enough. I wasn't referring to theming one's army as in making Night Lord with CSM, or in doing the Vior'la Sept with Tau. What I was alluding to (unsucessfully, it appears) is that if one makes an army out to be either exceptional or humorous, it can rapidly lose its appeal. 40k armies are a rather expensive way of making a joke.

Drongol

Captain Micha
11-03-2009, 18:16
Way to insult the Op's army by implying that it's a joke.

Mannimarco
11-03-2009, 18:28
i wouldnt say its a joke, unrealistic and not as original as people think it is yes, a joke no

Captain Micha
11-03-2009, 18:32
i wouldnt say its a joke, unrealistic and not as original as people think it is yes, a joke no

Who says they think they are being original when the idea comes up? They might be you know doing it cause they think the idea is cool or something... you know something that is more important to them than being "original" (And please like anything in 40k is realistic or original even within the context of itself. Dark Eldar... nuff said. Chaos Marine fluff for another)

Ubermensch Commander
11-03-2009, 18:33
It is unoriginal. The concept of "Chaos+X' has been done unto death. If folks do not want to see yet another faction that is not known for being Chaos prone suddenly dragged kicking and screaming into the Warp where it has spikes put on it (CASE IN POINT: ImP Doms linked list that had Chaos Tau had a Devilfish with Chaos Rhino Spikes on it.) and is then shoved out with a cry of "squeee! now its CHAOS!" I cannot blame them.

So Chaos Tau. Possible? Yes. Plausible? Meh. Kinda hard to justify but hey 40K is flexible enough. Should it be done? Many say NAY!

Captain Micha
11-03-2009, 18:36
Imp D also had a crisis suit that appeared to be half snake. (and several mutants) the spikes on the Fish though I think was out of convenience after having done the Crisis suit.. who could blame him from going the easier route on the vehicles? (besides what are you going to do to a fish to make it look "chaosy" without it looking more "Infested" Nid style instead)

Ubermensch Commander
11-03-2009, 18:36
@ Capt Micha
Yep he has every right to say "But its COOOL!"
And everyone else has the right to say "NOOOO its trite, stupid, overdone, intellectually lazy,etc"
Chill man. People disagree.

Also, why ripping on the DE? They were just an evolution of the Pirate eldar found in the Craftworld Eldar 2nd ed. codex. I would argue they are better writen than the Necrons with an atheist people suddenly turning to worship stargods who give them tech they already had.

Ubermensch Commander
11-03-2009, 18:37
Ack double post cuz no edit button. @ Mich again.

you could paint a Chaos star on the Devil fish.
rather than using imperial tech spikes.
I am just saying...more spikes does not equal Chaos. There are other simple ways to make them chaosy.

Captain Micha
11-03-2009, 18:38
They are Elves that are far far from original. They are basically a straight rip off of Drow, stuck in a Scifi Setting and given lighter skin to avoid being sued. Complete with Whips, Chains and model's who's poses and outfits make you think they sit around all day going "OOOOo SPANK ME BABY"

Also the Necrons, did not initially worship the C'tan and the C'tan -did- advance their technologies well beyond anything they even remotely understood (they didn't have FTL before the C'tan for example. Their ships were described as slow torch ships or something to that effect before the C'tan) they might have had the basics of the tech down, but the C'tan were the Ori, compared to SG1 so to speak.

Second note

Gw has always had a thing about "spikes = teh evilz!" Personally I think it was from them dying too many times in Mega Man and the association was born but that's their shtick. Even the De who aren't even Chaos are just Eldar with spikes and black paint.

The only evil races that Gw has ever made to my knowledge that don't have an unhealthy obsession with spikes are the Necrons and the Tyranid. Both of which were obvious lift offs from other material.

Don't get me wrong I like the Dark Eldar I think there's alot of potential that could be used here (instead of them being Eldar that survived the fall how about they were the Eldar's -slaves- that survived the fall.. that would be much more interesting). But they are far from original creations, and if they should be allowed and if CSM should be allowed and -loved- by fans (many of which in this thread that hate on this Chaos tau thing) then Chaos Tau should be loved too.

The hating of Chaos Tau because it isn't "new or original" is a stupid invalid reason to hate it. Especially when posters find CSM fluff and DE fluff acceptable and likable.

Mannimarco
11-03-2009, 18:38
just thought about it from a gaming perspective, how about battlesuits with a mark? +1t nurgle battlesuits, kroot with the mark of khorne, tau are pretty lousy in HtH, easily solved by adding a daemon prince and some summoned daemons

Ubermensch Commander
11-03-2009, 18:46
@ Micha
They are NOT Drow, sir. They do not WORSHIP some spider legged bitch. They do not worship anything actually. They are not hiding underground because "the lights it burns uss!". Its not a Matriarchal society.

They stave off the depradations of a god they created through their decadence by sacrificing other "lesser" beings. They are a hedonism born of desperation. I like that concept. Beings too proud to change their ways because they LOVE IT and so will kill anything and anyone else just to keep going. A goodly different than Drow.

What I am truly afraid of, is if they transform Dark Eldar into "Chaos Eldar" in the new codex...when and if that ever comes out! haha. Thank GW for stringing us along.

Now as for them being elves in space. Everyone rips off Tolkien to a degree with his elves. Nolo contendre. But WH40K's Eldar are not like Tolkiens elves. They are not quite as pure as Tolkien's elves. Arrogant as them, yes. But other than "Good" Elves vs "Bad" Elves there is little paralell with D and D's trite ass creations.

Sorry but D and D lost respect with me since about 3rd, where every race can just bone down another race and you have "HALF/HALFS" running around.

An undead lizardman illithid...WTF?

Captain Micha
11-03-2009, 18:53
@ Micha
They are NOT Drow, sir. They do not WORSHIP some spider legged bitch. They do not worship anything actually. They are not hiding underground because "the lights it burns uss!". Its not a Matriarchal society.

They stave off the depradations of a god they created through their decadence by sacrificing other "lesser" beings. They are a hedonism born of desperation. I like that concept. Beings too proud to change their ways because they LOVE IT and so will kill anything and anyone else just to keep going. A goodly different than Drow.

What I am truly afraid of, is if they transform Dark Eldar into "Chaos Eldar" in the new codex...when and if that ever comes out! haha. Thank GW for stringing us along.

Now as for them being elves in space. Everyone rips off Tolkien to a degree with his elves. Nolo contendre. But WH40K's Eldar are not like Tolkiens elves. They are not quite as pure as Tolkien's elves. Arrogant as them, yes. But other than "Good" Elves vs "Bad" Elves there is little paralell with D and D's trite ass creations.

Sorry but D and D lost respect with me since about 3rd, where every race can just bone down another race and you have "HALF/HALFS" running around.

An undead lizardman illithid...WTF?

No instead they worship She Who Thirsts (You don't have to adore Slaanesh to worship it.. they are still paying Slaanesh Tribute, that constitutes worshiping)... who has much the same attitudes and desires as Lolth. Yes.. so different...mmm hmm. Who caused the fall and sundering of the race just like Lolth... If you actually look at it objectively instead of guzzling your Drow Haterade you will see there is indeed a great many similarities.

The DE also like the Drow -choose- to live a life of hedonism and Depredation. Oh and both of them live in realms separate from their larger racial cousins (DE's underdark is the webway) and both said realms are filled with short cuts that allow them to appear at will and seemingly out of no where to perform their raids.

Not matriarchal? Oh Really? I seem to recall two very specific DE heroes that were Matriarchs. Who ran their cabals guess what? Like the... Drow.

They both run around playing games of political intrigue and backstabbing, both societies take slaves for their personal pleasure /playthings/sacrifices. Both regard the other "half" of their race as inferior and not true "elves".

3rd Edition is largely regarded as an abomination in every sort of way among the larger D&D community at this point. Especially the template related areas. Fortunately 4th solved pretty much all of this.

Ubermensch Commander
11-03-2009, 19:12
@ Micha

They do not entreat Slaanesh for favors (Like Drow to Lloth) They do hold rituals in honor of Slaanesh (Like Drow for Lloth) They do not summon forth the Daemons of Slaanesh ( Like Drow for Lloth) They do not worship SPIDERS (Which is kind Lloths whole Iconic deal)
Hatiing a god and bribing it with souls, while from cynical view sounds a damn sight like any religion, is not the same as entreating your mother goddess for power and to keep the dirty males in line.
Your similarities end at "Elves that have a relation with a Dark God"

The DE CREATED Slaanesh. Drow did not creat Lloth, insofar as I know.

The Dark Eldar do share the same traits of Arrogance and Politikiing as Drow, true. But that can come from alot of different sources, not just the Drow. Rather like...oh I dont know... the Dark Elves from Fantasy Warhammer. As for believing themselves superior and living apart with the ability to pop up out of nowhere, we can see this in Tolkien's the Noldor from the Sindar as well as a few other fantasy races. It is not a Drow speicific thing. Also, do the Drow live in a pocket dimension? Do they travel an ancient and now broken road through an immaterial nightmare realm? No? They just go through tunnes? Oh ok.

Their overall SOCIETY is NOT Matriarchal as their leaders can be Male or Female. Asdrubael Vecht, their boss o bosses is MALE. Only the soul sucking femme domme is anything like the Drow Matriarchs. The Wych bosses is just that, a Wych cult leader. Their obsession is with becomeing perfect killers...but in a "tasteful" fashion. It is not to hurt men and keep them down. So the DE have Female leaders and Male leaders. Their agendas do not match up to the Drow agendas, save on taking slaves. This = Not a Matriarchal society.


Any parallels between the two end at "Evil Elves with a relation to a Dark God" and are singularly superficial. Physically, not the same. Agenda, not the same. Societally, not the same beyond a love of torturing slaves and they are done for different reasons. One entreats their goddess, the other keeps the attentions of a cosmic abomination (slaanesh being male/fem/other/all in terms of gender) Attitude, yep both believes themselves to be superior...but this can be traced back to the Eldar and other fantasy worlds Elves. Its one of those common traits. Arrogant badguys, especially elven badguys, are a staple thing.

Captain Micha
11-03-2009, 19:23
Actually the Drow might very well run through planar travels infact they used to have dimensional door as one of their special abilities in 2e IIRC. They got rid of this in 3e, and replaced it with a High Born Drow feat.

But it was there.

in 4e this could be explained as them moving through parts of the Shadowfell (which naturally has many linking points with caves and dark places.)

The similarities are blatently obviously there. (Dark Elves are a rip off of Drow too but not as blatent about it as the DE, and Tolkein ripped off of myths just like everyone does etc etc)

Also Drow worship lolth much the same way that DE worship Slaanesh. They worship far more out of fear than out of love. (infact love is discouraged as it is a sign of weakness to the Drow same with compassion... sound familiar again?)

Drow also do not summon demons infact they despise Demons. (again.. sound familiar?)

It's like trying to say the Necrons weren't inspired by the Terminator, dude. Hell they come complete with "We'll Be Back". You don't see me crying foul or trying to deny this. (even if I don't especially care about Terminator beyond how awesome the Terminator robots look)

It doesn't make the De any less cool that they aren't original works by any stretch. But denying that there are not numerous similarities and trying to pass it off as "not being a rip off" is to deny reality of the subject matter.

Ubermensch Commander
11-03-2009, 19:44
Drow do summon Demons. Some avatars from Lloth. Big waxy looking bastards if memory serves. Straight from the Drizzit books. heck I think Demons were used when one House wiped out the other as well. Then the War of the Spider Queen, Demons with the Drow make an appearance, such as that half Demon son/consort thing tha was running around. The Dark Eldar do not hold rituals to Slaanesh and do not summon Demons whatsoever. I cannot stress that enough. There is not a similarity there if the two actions are totally different. Now if they do turn the DE into Chaos Eldar, then I would still draw paralells to Chaos, not DnD.

Again, given the dissimilarities I pointed out from the DE relation to Slaanesh to Drow relation to Slaanesh, no they do not sound similar. I will give you another difference. The females amongst the Drown culture worship Lloth as a means to directly reinforce their dominance of the males below them. Again, not sounding at all like the DE.

So: Their societys are not the same. One is Matriarchal. One is not. Yes they both use slaves...so do Chaos Dwarves, Chaos Mortals, Skaven, etc. Its just a pat storytelling tool use to make a faction "evil". Nevermind those Bretonnian peasents or Imperial Conscipts who are also effectively slaves.
Physically the two are different. One is affected by sunlight, their stuff burns up in it. Also, the DE do not have the innate magickal/psychic abilities inherent in Drow or their craftworld cousins.
From a Metaphysical standpoint they vary as well. The DE do not call upon the powers of a spider goddess nor do they summon daemons (so nether in form nor effect of their god(esses) is there a similarity.

I am denying the reality of subject matter, I am simply not making connections that do not exist. Are there paralells? Sure, but they end at about "Dark Elves in SPACCCEEEE!"
To claim otherwise it to give D and D too much credit. But when the differences outweight the similarities and the similarities are products of generally story telling (arrogant badguys/elves for example) I cannot accept the claim that Drow inspired the DE.


As for necrons, yeah physicall, obvious terminator rip offs, but I would say they are more of a "Tomb Kings/Vamps/undead in SPAAAAAAACCCCEE!" than anything else.

Not saying the DE are completely original, simply that their roots do not go back to Drow.

Captain Micha
11-03-2009, 20:16
Actually Drow don't burn in the sun anymore. Like 40k D&D (specifically FR) does go through Retcons from time to time.

FR drow are the ones most are familiar with but there are settings in which Drow hated demons. More feverishly so than Elves infact.

They don't worship Lolth to "maintain security over men" they worship her partly because they are terrified of her, and partly because they want a sliver of the power she can give.

You give Gw far too much credit really.

I wonder if you knew that in the old Dragon and Dungeon Magazines, warhammer products were advertised? (there were even warhammer articles from what I hear) Gw and the company that made D&d at the time had a very strong connection for a while there.

Marshal Sinclair
11-03-2009, 20:26
Drow also have male leaders - Their mages are male.

What is the difference between a tunnel through the earth and a tunnel through the warp? Fantasy setting and scifi setting.

Dark Eldar summon forth daemons all the time, they even have them in their army lists - Warp Beasts.

Honestly you just sound like the usual nerdument. "OMG DE ARE SO DROWZ!" to which the reply is usually "OMG THEY ARE SO NOT!"

Lord Damocles
11-03-2009, 20:36
...so... what about Chaos Drow then...?

Marshal Sinclair
11-03-2009, 20:56
Spikey Drow? What a great idea! Be careful though, or Bregalad will jump on you. I am surprised he took 24 whole posts to arrive in this thread, to be honest.

Lord Damocles
11-03-2009, 20:57
Bregalad will jump on you.
Well thats put me right off the idea... :p

totgeboren
11-03-2009, 21:20
I know this is horribly off topic (or, well not really when you think about it), but the DE do not "pay tribute", worship, hang around with or are affiliated with Slaanesh in any way according to the fluff in their codex plus the fluff in different WDs.

They are more directly negatively affected by her than the CWE, but other than that, just no. Thy are not chaos eldar, or even semi-chaos eldar.

Just had to point this out.

They hate Slaanesh atleast as much as the CWE, probably more, since she is the reason they have to eat the souls of others as slurpies.

Ofc, they would probably do it anyway even if Slaanesh didn't exist, but as it is now, if they don't do it, they die a horrible dead.

And chaos Tau again, ok, not supported by the fluff, but the possibility exist.

The Chaos Tau posted looked kewl, though I didn't like the spikes. But the mutations were very nice. :)

The Gothic Me
11-03-2009, 22:55
What the hell? Chaos Tau have are unoriginal so instead we should just stick to the vanilla armies that have been hashed over a thousand times?

What about Tau genestealer cults? would that be acceptable? Or are Tau immune to that kind of corruption too.

twinsword
11-03-2009, 23:03
hm... i know a great slogen 4 theam "for the greater ME!!":p

Nostro
11-03-2009, 23:58
I am surprised he [Bregalad] took 24 whole posts to arrive in this thread, to be honest.

QFT. He might be a bit out of shape these days.


What the hell? Chaos Tau have are unoriginal so instead we should just stick to the vanilla armies that have been hashed over a thousand times?

What about Tau genestealer cults? would that be acceptable? Or are Tau immune to that kind of corruption too.

I for one find this more original. Of course you see a lot more vanilla marine armies (and a lot of people also criticize marines for being an unoriginal choice anyway) but I think that all the "unoriginal" critics are more about "we have A ? let's make chaos A ! " approach. What would it look like if we had twice more codices: SM, CSM, Tau, Chaos Tau, Nids, Chaos Nids, Necrons, Chaos Necrons, etc ? It would feel very dull if you had good side army A and bad side army A for every army.

First, there's this need to always picture "evil X" and especially in 40K, "chaos X" that is a bit annoying. KUZ IF DEY R EVIL DEY R T3H B4D4SSS !!!one!

Second, I, like a lot of others here, argue that it's refreshing to bring "evil" armies or "evil sides" that are NOT chaos. Like a breakaway planet from the imperium. Like another race that has its own motive for wreaking havoc. Hell, imperials can be considered evil by other races. Resorting to chaos is a bit boring.

And someone asked why we accept Dark Eldar. I for one hate them in their current incarnation and still resent GW for bringing them in so badly. Pirate Eldar, finding another way than CW Eldar to avoid Slaanesh is an interesting idea. But GW messed them up:they are dark and spiky because they are evil!!!!! Very imaginative. But they are not chaos. They like lust, suffering, torture, pain. But they don't follow Slaanesh !

Did they also have to call them dark? It reinforces the impression that Eldar are good and Dark Eldar are evil, bringing a stupid black & white where the grey area of the Eldar is a lot more interesting.
Their background material is so flimsy and ill thought out that you have a hard time explaining that they are not chaos and slaaneshi.

40K's grimdark (when not pushed to far) is a lot of what lures us in. Nobody is really good or evil, so bringing Tim against Chaos Tim takes a lot of that away, that's why I am against that.

So yeah, I'd prefer Tau genestealer cults.

As ever, free to anyone to make the army and background they like, but free to others to not agree. Especially since the OP came here to ask a question, why blame people for answering?

dal9ll
12-03-2009, 00:12
This thread has given me a great idea: Im going to start a Chaos Tyranids army!

Nostro
12-03-2009, 00:17
Awesome idea! You could take Tyranids then turn them all evil and spikey !

Oh wait...

Col_Festus
12-03-2009, 00:19
Did anyone read Firewarrior? If I remember correctly the whole book is about a Firewarrior who is trying to resist his urge to slaughter people. In the end they make references to it being Khorne. The FWs name was Kais I believe? If Im wrong someone please correct me. :confused:

Lord-Caerolion
12-03-2009, 02:29
I for one find this more original

And what if the OP *shock horror* doesn't care about it not being an original idea? Seriously, just because an idea has been done, doesn't mean other people can't try. I mean, gawd, Chaos 'x' armies are, like, so last season! That seems to be the logic some are using here. An idea has been done before. Great, so what? Perhaps the OP liked the idea, and wants to try it out themselves?

The "No Chaos Tau" side is really starting to run out of credible arguments, it seems. We've shown they can get indirectly corrupted (small Warp presence does nothing to stop that), and who gives a stuff if it's been done before?



What about Tau genestealer cults? would that be acceptable? Or are Tau immune to that kind of corruption too.
I'm sure people will argue that the Tau's small Warp presence protects them from that too. I mean, if they can't get corrupted by the Chaos Gods, the Tyranids must struggle too.

massey
12-03-2009, 03:40
So it's settled. You should give up on this totally unoriginal idea and start a nice unique army no one has ever seen before, like Ultramarines. :)

For all we here about Xenology talking about Tau being possibly engineered to resist Chaos, doesn't it also say they have hooves?

There seems to be a cult on this board that thinks Tau are untouchable and pure. I always found them boring and dull. Though I think Inquisitor Kryptmann should have directed the Tyranid fleet into the Tau empire rather than the Orks. When the Nids came out, they'd all be WS 2. :)

Bregalad
12-03-2009, 03:42
Did anyone read Firewarrior? If I remember correctly the whole book is about a Firewarrior who is trying to resist his urge to slaughter people. In the end they make references to it being Khorne. The FWs name was Kais I believe? If Im wrong someone please correct me. :confused:
If you read the thread, you will find that I referred to that book in two posts. And I recently reread it because of false statements in Chaos Tau threads about its end.


1. It doesn't state Imperial Guard can fall to Chaos in the Imperial Guard codex either. Whats your point? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Using your logic, your Tau cadre has never officially been spoken of in any GW stuff, therefore it doesn't exist.
LatD are present in the EOT campaign book and FW material. They are official, with official miniatures and rules, so who do you want to trick with this obviously false arguments? And my Tau cadre is from Sa'cea, sorry pal;)


2. GW not coming up with a sensible reason means we should believe them?
If you don't believe what GW says, there is no basis for further discussion

3. It's Fire Warrior. A book based on a video game based on a table-top game. Books based just on games suck badly, and this has a single Tau warrior kill a Daemon Prince, for crying out loud. I wouldn't trust it that much. And Black Library is generally ranted at for being bad quality, yet now it's being held up as immutable canon.
Seems you haven't read it, or any other BL book. BL books have different quality, ranging from Abnett to Goto. They take liberties, some more some less. Fire Warrior actually isn't so bad, considering the extreme limitations of the original source, an ego shooter PC game.

4. No, I don't believe Xenology. I found it a horrible book, creating conspiracy theories just for the sake of it. Plus, see above about Black Library.
Fair enough. I am not certain about its solidity either, so I post this source with care (see ethereal pic with feet instead of hoves). But it makes strong implications on Tau, so I referred to it here.


We've shown they can get indirectly corrupted
No, you haven't. A Chaos Space Marine can possibly kill a Fire Warrior and therefore "influence" him, but you haven't yet understood the role and influence of ethereals yet.


Spikey Drow? What a great idea! Be careful though, or Bregalad will jump on you. I am surprised he took 24 whole posts to arrive in this thread, to be honest.


Well thats put me right off the idea... :p
Thanks folks ;) . But you realize that the first post was 7.00 am and I responded only 5 hours later, right? Yes, sometimes I sleep and don't read warseer for 5 hours.:rolleyes:
BTW, Dark Eldar HAVE spikes. But if paying tribute to someone equals worshipping him, most people here worship their ministry of finance :p.

Lord-Caerolion
12-03-2009, 05:20
Well, your "only until they meet an Ethereal assumes that the Ethereals are utterly pure, and could never, ever be corrupted, not even slightly.

Also, the fact that Ethereals have feet is something in Xenology I've always thought made slightly more sense. We already know the Tau castes differ in form, so why couldn't the Ethereals have evolved differently, footwise, from the Fire caste? It makes sense for the Fire caste to have hooves, as they developed on plains, and so might need a harder foot. Ethereals, evolving in more civilised areas, may not have therefore evolved in that way, and kept their original feet. Just a different way of thinking about it.

The Gothic Me
12-03-2009, 10:41
Eh, it seems problem have more of a problem with Chaos in general then Chaos Tau in particular. Seems like some people just see chaos as a binary evil to their vanilla forms good. I guess GW does to a lot to perpetuate these views, but I've never seen Chaos that way, I've always seen them as no more evil then any other of the factions, with some exceptions. The idea of chaos Tau seems very different when you don't look at it from the binary perspective of Chaos=evil, other=good.

This is kind of why I like the idea of Chaos Eldar as well as Dark Eldar and regular Eldar, means it's not just a good/evil binary.

All I'm saying is that not everyone who suggest Chaos Tau is suffering from evil paladin syndrome, some people see it as a genuinely unique possibility.

SAMAS
12-03-2009, 11:15
I'm sure people will argue that the Tau's small Warp presence protects them from that too. I mean, if they can't get corrupted by the Chaos Gods, the Tyranids must struggle too.

Remember, Tyranid corruption is genetic There are probably a few Genestealer Cults in Tau space, rendered somewhat ineffective by the whole Small Warp Signature thing meaning the cult would pretty much have to be much bigger than one on a Human world needs to be to call the Hive Mind.

On the original subject, I will say it's possible, but not plausible. In Firewarrior, a demon of Tzeench found one single corruptible Tau out of the entire battle force, and that one fought him the whole way and won. He couldn't even touch the Ethereal.

For Chaos, corrupting Tau is like going to the most exclusive restaurant in the city, and all they got on the menu is a hot dog.

SAMAS
12-03-2009, 11:18
Well, your "only until they meet an Ethereal assumes that the Ethereals are utterly pure, and could never, ever be corrupted, not even slightly.

Well, the last time someone tried, they failed miserably.

It wasn't that it was impossible, just that it would have taken far too much time and effort for the reward.

Lord-Caerolion
12-03-2009, 12:05
And because one didn't, none of the others would either. Because Chaos isn't persistant or anything...

Ethereals still feel emotions. They have desires, they have drives. As long as an Ethereal seeks to better the Tau Empire, he can fall to Tzeentch. He probably won't notice it until it's too late, but he can still fall.
Say an Ethereal captures/finds a secret book of knowledge off a Chaos Cult, that promises so much power, all for a Greater Good. Why not follow what it says? After all, it's only knowledge, and that can't hurt you. After seeing what this source of power and inspiration can do, he'll rely on it further, and further. Soon, he'll begin to equate this book and what it writes of as part of the Greater Good. After all, it's helped them so much, and its just a book! He'll have it mass-produced, as an inspirational creed, telling a new method of serving the Greater Good.
Over time, his perceptions become warped. The book is part of the Greater Good, but he found it, he gave it its purpose, so surely he is just as important? He sets himself up in a role more in line with a traditional priest/prophet, rather than simple mentor. Chaos has truly gotten to him by now.

Wow, some Chaos Tau without having to resort to possession, and the Ethereal would fall. The length of exposure to such a supposedly innocent book, all the while twisting his ideals. He never suspects a thing, as everything this book has ever mentioned has been beneficial to the Tau Empire. Haven't the ships under his guidance been able to travel much faster through the Warp, due to the knowledge it gives? Haven't the philosophers and scientists made massive leaps of progress? Haven't the Fire Warriors benefitted from the Warp technology unlocked? How could such a thing be bad?

Plus, people are still too obsessed over the "small warp presence", holding it up as an inviolable barrier that Chaos could never overcome.
Ok, sure, Chaos might not get as big a "feed" from Tau as from a human. Who says the daemon's goal is gathering souls? Perhaps the purpose of said cult is to destroy a certain artifact, or build a certain temple/structure. Size of warp presence doesn't influence that, and the Tau are just as capable as any other race.

EDIT: Oh, and SAMAS, I was being sarcastic when I suggested that the Tau would be protected from Tyranid infection.

Nostro
12-03-2009, 12:16
And what if the OP *shock horror* doesn't care about it not being an original idea?

What if the made a thread to *shock horror* hear about what people have to say?

What if this what I have to say?


Seriously, just because an idea has been done, doesn't mean other people can't try. I mean, gawd, Chaos 'x' armies are, like, so last season! That seems to be the logic some are using here. An idea has been done before. Great, so what? Perhaps the OP liked the idea, and wants to try it out themselves?

I'm not saying he can't, his time his army his money he does what he wants. But why should I be forced to like the idea if the OP does? Are only people who say "Chaos Tau are great ! Go for it !" allowed to post here?

Yes, doing Chaos everything is like, so last season. There's the evil paladin syndrome (make it evil it's even more badass), the matchbox effect (the more parents tell you not to play with fire the more you want to), the dark and spiky attraction etc.

Chaos Tau are rather unsupported by the official fluff, if we have to find a single Tau that may have been influenced in a book written about a video game written about the codex, it's to the least flimsy.

Now everybody can and is entitled to make a bit of its own fluff to justify Chaos Tau, female Marines or Hello Kitty Grey Knights and model a good looking army. Simply don't ask the interwebs to agree.

Why why why should I be forced to agree it's a good idea if I don't think it is?


So it's settled. You should give up on this totally unoriginal idea and start a nice unique army no one has ever seen before, like Ultramarines. :)

For all we here about Xenology talking about Tau being possibly engineered to resist Chaos, doesn't it also say they have hooves?

There seems to be a cult on this board that thinks Tau are untouchable and pure. I always found them boring and dull. Though I think Inquisitor Kryptmann should have directed the Tyranid fleet into the Tau empire rather than the Orks. When the Nids came out, they'd all be WS 2. :)

Per se Chaos Tau is not unoriginal, because you don't see them a lot. It's the idea behind them that is unoriginal.

Sidenote: hooves = chaos? :eyebrows:

I am not saying Tau are untouchable and pure, that's a to manichean way of seeing that. Yes they were king of optimisitc happy guys in the first codex but their background got darker and the all-happy society hints at being a bunch of brainwashed "Join us or die" imperialistic gung-hos.

Free to you to find them dull, but finding them pure etc is methinks unfair. But I think it's a widespread opinion and has a lot ot do in the urge that many feel to corrupt them in black paint and tentacle madness.

It's way too black and white, this is why I think the following point is very interesting.


Eh, it seems problem have more of a problem with Chaos in general then Chaos Tau in particular. Seems like some people just see chaos as a binary evil to their vanilla forms good. I guess GW does to a lot to perpetuate these views, but I've never seen Chaos that way, I've always seen them as no more evil then any other of the factions, with some exceptions. The idea of chaos Tau seems very different when you don't look at it from the binary perspective of Chaos=evil, other=good.

This is kind of why I like the idea of Chaos Eldar as well as Dark Eldar and regular Eldar, means it's not just a good/evil binary.

All I'm saying is that not everyone who suggest Chaos Tau is suffering from evil paladin syndrome, some people see it as a genuinely unique possibility.

Indeed, Chaos is a lot more interesting when you don't think about it as the epitomy of evil. Maybe they are harbouring righteous marines who fled a fascist dictature after having opened their eyes. The influence of the gods can bring life and creation. I seem to remember a short story about a Chaos Marine aboard a space ship remembering is life bit by bit, why he betrayed, why he thinks he's right, how tired he is by his ling life, how disappointed he is to see his body mutate, how he's going to slaughter the imperials on the next planet he attacks anyway.
Chaos guys are a lot better when Chaos is the only chance they have to escape the Emperor, not because they just are t3h Evil.

Now indeed GW pushes it too far to the dark side, everything Chaos now looks zombies, daemons, spikes, evil, sadistic, treacherous, bloody, etc. Chaos appelas to humanity's dark emotions, hence the feeling that it's the black side to the imperium's white. But I see your point that Chaos Thing should and could be more unique than just Evil Thing.

The thing is then, that making Dude and Chaos Dude everywhere reinforces this binary view. So exploring how Dude can be less rank n file without resorting ot Chaos is interesting. I think that's why Farsight is really popular, he gets out of the percieved dullness of Tau, he breaks the mold, brings dissent, stands up against what his own race stands for etc, without going all spikey and chaosy. Granted, that Necrony sword might just be GW lazily switching Necron for Chaos but at least they let the doubt. The most interesting things in 40k background are untold, like the fate of the two unknown SM legions.

Daniel36
12-03-2009, 12:29
Come on people... Don't get so worked up... It was just a question and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I, personally, don't think it's justifiable fluff-wise. I am a fluff-nut and I don't like the idea of the overly idealistic Tau becoming seduced by Slaanesh. I probably wouldn't enjoy fighting them for that reason... However, I also hate Special Characters for the simple reason that I can't believe that Yarrick really has time to back up my Cadian style army of around 50 men and two tanks. Especially not if he is fighting a Special Character from a completely different era. Ergo, my opinion is merely my opinion. The author asks for our opinion, and probably reads all of our opinions to eventually assess if he (or she, sorry didn't read) still likes the idea of Slaanesh Tau.

However, I do think it is justifiable just for the pure heck of it. I mean, if you want to do it, go ahead and do it. I am not thrilled about Hello Kitty Marines or Flowery Butterfly Necrons, but it sure is a good laugh and something original as well...

And I already have a slogan for you, pal!

"For the Greater Bad"

Isn't that awesome!?!?

Poseidal
12-03-2009, 12:37
[quiote]I am a fluff-nut and I don't like the idea of the overly idealistic Tau becoming seduced by Slaanesh.[/quote]
Who were the Chaos Marines that went to Slaanesh? The overly idealistic and perfectionist Emperor's Children.

There's more to Slaanesh than fun and fornication.

The best way for Chaos to seduce is to work with their ideals rather than against them.

Also, as a side fun topic, each of the four castes each is represented by a different Chaos power:

Fire -> Khorne (martial discipline and honour)
Water -> Tzeench (diplomacy, trickery)
Earth -> Slaanesh (artisans, architects following their purpose to the extreme)
Air -> Nurgle (downtrodden and dispondant because the Fire Caste commander 'Shadowsun' stole their thunder and took all the credit for defeating a hive fleet that should have been credited to one of them)

MadJackMcJack
12-03-2009, 16:24
What about Tau genestealer cults? would that be acceptable? Or are Tau immune to that kind of corruption too.

One of the Commissar Cain, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM, books has a group of pathfinders getting infected by genestealers. Hell, an Inquisitor who knows about it lets them get taken away by the Tau, because she knows that the Tau have little knowledge of Genestealer cults and wants the nearby hive fleet to eat them instead of an Imperial world.

Captain Micha
12-03-2009, 16:29
I just saw pure vomit in model form... I just saw close up photos of De.

So go for it Op.

No matter what you do it'll never look as bad as Dark Eldar.

The Orange
12-03-2009, 18:30
Lol, MadJackMcJack he was being sarcastic, I think we all believe Tyranids can infect Tau (despite their being no proof of it)

Technically the book never showed/proved that the Tau were infected by the genestealers, the Inquisitor and Cain simply thought/assumed they were and stayed mum on the topic.



But why should I be forced to like the idea if the OP does? Are only people who say "Chaos Tau are great ! Go for it !" allowed to post here?


The problem isn't your opinion, its that the whole "Tau are immune to Chaos" arguments don't hold as much water as most people assume it does. Granted some people thoroughly research and back up their own hypotheses (Bregalad) but most just jump on that one quote from the Inquisitor game and run wild with their own assumptions dismissing any other hypotheses that people may make (various ways Chaos can infect Tau), then to top it off they thow in insults on the OP for the idea (what an unoriginal idea, it's just spikes, joke army). Everytime it comes up the OP gets the exact same crap, which is funny seeing as in this game we do have Space Warrior Clowns, Space Vikings, stargods being turned into mewlings, etc. yet no one voices an opinion on the absurdity of these ideas :rolleyes:.

Also, because I think it has to be said, who cares weather the idea is original or not. Painting Khone marines red is unoriginal, painting Ultramarines blue is unoriginal, and last I checked the OP wasn't asking if his idea was original enough. The OP asked if it was possible, IMO it is, the originality of the idea is completely irrelevant to the topic and thus an irrelevant criticism.

Nostro
12-03-2009, 21:45
The problem isn't your opinion, its that the whole "Tau are immune to Chaos" arguments don't hold as much water as most people assume it does.

Fair point.


The OP asked if it was possible, IMO it is, the originality of the idea is completely irrelevant to the topic and thus an irrelevant criticism.

Fair point again. Rereading the OP, he asked if it was plausible.
Possible for a Tau to be corrupted? Maybe, arguments exist on both sides as you pointed out.
Plausible for a whole army to worwhip Slaanesh? Not quite as sure.

If people like it isn't indeed directly relevant to the question asked, but can still weigh in the decision and anyway the OP will have to face the reaction when fielding the army.

Bottom line, this below mirrors my take on the subject, minus that the OP didn't directly ask our opinion on the coolness/originality on the army but it doesn't hurt to give it. If somebody just asked "Do you think a pink armoured chapter could see its head mutate to giant white kitty head?"; the answer would be "Yes, Chaos can do it all" and wouldn't need a thread but opinions would be welcome I guess.


I, personally, don't think it's justifiable fluff-wise. [...] I probably wouldn't enjoy fighting them for that reason... [...] The author asks for our opinion, and probably reads all of our opinions to eventually assess if he (or she, sorry didn't read) still likes the idea of Slaanesh Tau.

However, I do think it is justifiable just for the pure heck of it. I mean, if you want to do it, go ahead and do it. [...]

And now that you ask:


in this game we do have Space Warrior Clowns, Space Vikings, stargods being turned into mewlings, etc. yet no one voices an opinion on the absurdity of these ideas :rolleyes:.

I am definitely ok Space Vikings, not much with C'Tan but I'd point out I read many times people felt it's stupid how weak and ubuquitous a one of a kind stargod could be on a battle field. The rumour of C'tan remaining as a "transformation" of a necron Lord pleased a lot of people discontent about that.

And as far as Harlequins are concerned, I hate the whole concept of clowns with a passion. I don't like the minis (except the shadowseer), old or new. I don't like how they are painted with playing cards and all. I don't care how powerful they are, I wouldn't field them. I do like their background of independent guys roaming secretly around, but that's it. At least they kept the WHFB wardancers decently plausible, but the Jack Hart wannabes are beyond ridicule.



Also, because I think it has to be said, who cares weather the idea is original or not. Painting Khone marines red is unoriginal, painting Ultramarines blue is unoriginal, and last I checked the OP wasn't asking if his idea was original enough.

For fairness's sake I also saw people complain about how black-red-gold inquisition armies were unoriginal, or how making yet another Ultramerine army is not original.

Some people care if their army is original, else why would you see non-"have a codex" chapters around? Different colour schemes on nids, tau, IG? Why would you see conversions? And I'd assume somebody thinking about Chaos Tau cares about originality else he would play regular sand-colored Tau.

Bregalad
12-03-2009, 22:28
Ethereals still feel emotions. They have desires, they have drives. As long as an Ethereal seeks to better the Tau Empire, he can fall to Tzeentch. He probably won't notice it until it's too late, but he can still fall.
(...)
EDIT: Oh, and SAMAS, I was being sarcastic when I suggested that the Tau would be protected from Tyranid infection.
You should accept that all background sources on that topic suggest directly (Fire Warrior, Xenology) or indirectly (Codex, e.g. ethereals ending Mont'au or Farsight story) that ethereals are completely IMMUNE to Chaos and spread that immunity by whatever means to their surrounding and, to a lesser degree, the current Tau society. Only in absence of an ethereal, Daemons see a slight chance of corrupting a Tau, but all known attempts failed miserably. Only in absense of an ethereal, some Tau like Farsight are able to freak out and approach old Mont'au habits. Chaos is not invincible and omnipotent in the 40k fluff, and why should it be.

BTW, making an old Mont'au themed army is perfectly acceptable and fluffy if you want something mad and bloody (forget about modern technology and watch Fire Warriors die in close combat then ;)). Farsight is halfway in that direction. But be aware that both are not Chaos Tau.

Also, even I admit that Tau can be infected by Tyranids, although a Genestealer cult and infected Tau are likely to be detected before spreading.
Kroot are another story. Fluff and esp. the novel "For the Emperor" strongly suggest that the Kroot's and the Tyranid's mechanism to manipulate genes are not compatible so they avoid each other. A shaper smells Tyranid infected flesh and declares it taboo.

Imperialis_Dominatus
12-03-2009, 23:34
However, I do think it is justifiable just for the pure heck of it. I mean, if you want to do it, go ahead and do it. I am not thrilled about Hello Kitty Marines or Flowery Butterfly Necrons, but it sure is a good laugh and something original as well...

I'm sure the OP loves being compared to joke armies.


Farsight is halfway in that direction. But be aware that both are not Chaos Tau.

Not a snowball's chance in the Warp, eh? Nice to see more interpretations being sold as gospel.

Marshal Sinclair
13-03-2009, 00:17
People cite the fact that there are no recorded cases of Chaos corrupted Tau in the canon fluff. I am sure there were no Chaos Humans or Chaos XXX when those races only occupied such a small part of the galaxy too. What would be the point in the Chaos deities putting so much effort into such a worthless race to them? They have a tiny empire, low levels of technology, are unlikely to be corruptable on a global scale. What would be the point?

On the other hand, a Sept vessel on the way to Medusa was pulled entirely into the warp by a freak accident. The Tau are buggered in this situation. Until their Ethereal is offered a helping hand by an unknown agent, anyway. Well, to see where this story ends, refer to the Soul Drinkers.

Lord-Caerolion
13-03-2009, 03:28
But be aware that both are not Chaos Tau.

But earlier in this same post you suggested the Ethereals ending the Mont'au as proof that they aren't affected by Chaos. So which is it, is Mont'au Chaos, or not? The same goes for Farsight. On one hand you're using him to show Ethereals are resistant to corruption, but then saying he's not Chaos. Which one is it?

And your "direct examples" still consist of only Xenology (pure conspiracy nonsense, none of it backed up) and Fire Warrior (as you have said, a book of a egoshooter game. They just thought it would be cool to have a Fire Warrior kill a Daemon Prince by himself, and fluff be damned).

I've shown numerous times how the naievety of the Tau can prove to be their undoing, but apparently they're still immune to it. Corruption doesn't have to happen overnight, it can be a very drawn out process, in which the corruptee doesn't even know it's Chaos until its too late.

massey
13-03-2009, 04:53
[COLOR="Red"]

Sidenote: hooves = chaos? :eyebrows:

I am not saying Tau are untouchable and pure, that's a to manichean way of seeing that. Yes they were king of optimisitc happy guys in the first codex but their background got darker and the all-happy society hints at being a bunch of brainwashed "Join us or die" imperialistic gung-hos.

Free to you to find them dull, but finding them pure etc is methinks unfair. But I think it's a widespread opinion and has a lot ot do in the urge that many feel to corrupt them in black paint and tentacle madness.

It's way too black and white, this is why I think the following point is very interesting.

Hooves = Xenology is wrong.

On the one hand, people want to take an in-universe supposition and treat it as gospel. On the other hand, there are also statements in the same book that are absolutely incorrect. But the same people just want to pretend those don't exist. How trustworthy are the conclusions they draw if we know other parts about the Tau are dead-set wrong?

I always thought Chaos was interesting because there is such a wide variety of it. Chaos isn't simply the evil team. It's a corrupting influence that pushes people along whatever path they were predisposed towards. It's like the Dark Side of the Force. It's the corruption that power brings, and there are many forms. Tau are no more resistant to temptation than humans or eldar.

Should Chaos Tau be mutated with tentacles and spikes? Probably not. There probably needs to be some sort of new artistic scheme to represent Chaos Tau. Probably watch some dark anime and use "evil" character designs. Maybe they change their battlesuits to look more like "bad guy" suits. Darker paint schemes, more aggressive stances. Keep a streamlined look, but include glowing red sensor pod "eyes". Make them look sinister. Maybe their skin starts to look dried out and the color fades. Maybe it becomes knotty and rugged. Maybe their pupils shrink and nearly disappear. Maybe they start using some more experimental weapons, or older weapons that weren't as eco-friendly. Their tactics become focused more on killing than always on keeping losses to a minimum. Why are Imperial plasma guns Str 7? Because the Imperium doesn't care if the gun overheats. At some point, a Tau commander will begin to understand that sort of logic.

Chaos Tau shouldn't be spikes and tentacles. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't exist.

The problem with Chaos is that it normally takes root when people are seperated, off on their own. The Tau try to stick close together under the watchful eye of their overseers, so it's hard for Chaos to grow, because none of them are able to keep any secrets. The Imperium is far flung and the Eldar just didn't give a damn. That's how Chaos took root so easily in them. The Tau? Big brother is always watching over you. Not for signs of Chaos, just because. So you'd need Tau to get seperated from the main group.

Has Farsight fallen? Who cares? If he hasn't, he's at least looking down that path and considering it. Will he go? It's up to you. But once a guy starts getting reprimanded for being too violent in warfare, you can tell which way the wind is blowing. Certainly the hints have been put there to make people wonder. That's something that Bregalad can't even argue with. GW is purposefully leaving the door open on him for us to wonder whether he's a good guy or a bad guy. It's purposefully vague.

And using the main character of a novel and showing how he doesn't fall to Chaos is just ridiculous. Main characters don't fall to Chaos unless the story is a tragedy. They don't die either. You might as well say that Fire Warrior armor is 2++ rerollable because he never dies.

CushionRide
13-03-2009, 05:14
seeing as how the tau have collected some imperial remnants in the past. what if they aquired some of the corrupted guard of Vrak, just for starters...
maybe one of there psykers lay the taint of corruption in the ethreal, ooooooo lol

Volker
13-03-2009, 06:56
Also, because I think it has to be said, who cares weather the idea is original or not. Painting Khone marines red is unoriginal, painting Ultramarines blue is unoriginal, and last I checked the OP wasn't asking if his idea was original enough. The OP asked if it was possible, IMO it is, the originality of the idea is completely irrelevant to the topic and thus an irrelevant criticism.


No, he did not ask if it was possible, he asked if it was plausible.

And it most certainly is not

Imperialis_Dominatus
13-03-2009, 07:11
Gosh, it's a good thing that question has been so definitively addressed. Don't know what I would have done without your wisdom, Volker.

On another note, I read some of Lord Caerolion's posts in this thread again, and doubt has resurfaced in my mind. Do you think you could help me out?

Lord-Caerolion
13-03-2009, 09:17
I know what you mean, Imperialis Dominatus, I can't possibly see how the ideals of the Greater Good could ever be subtly twisted over time! I mean, a Tau can instantly tell when the most miniscule deviations occur in the Greater Good, and instantly shun them, even if those deviations seem to be of benefit, and have no apparent risk.

I mean, the Tau, in their naivety, would never allow themselves to be corrupted while reading a Chaos book, because their small warp-presence removes all trace of their naivety, and they don't even touch it. Of course the Tau would pass up on an important scientific text just because the superstitions of other races deem it impure.

Remember guys, the Tau are naive as all hell. It doesn't matter how Chaos-steeped a book is, to the Tau it's still just a book, and will treat it as such, there to be read. Plus, as we all know, look where naivety got the Great Crusade in matters of Chaos.

Imperialis_Dominatus
13-03-2009, 09:26
Yeah, and if you want to talk about twisting ideals... look at those who sided with Horus- their fall. Hell, look at those who didn't- the Imperium of today. No one wins where the Gods set their gaze.

The Gothic Me
13-03-2009, 12:49
These arguments always seem to start with the anti-chaos tau people saying Chaos Tau are impossible in the fluff, the pro-chaos Tau point out that they are in no way unfluffy, anti-chaos Tau concede that this is pretty much true, but Chaos Tau are a horribly unoriginal and terribly thematically, at this point the argument becomes mainly based on taste and fades away. Next time the argument starts up again, though, everyone has returned to position that Chaos Tau are unfluffy.

I'd just like it if people wouldn't use the idea that Chaos Tau are a bad idea (a point which I'm more and more inclined to agree with) to try and argue that they go against fluff. Imagine were we'd be if we applied this across the board? let's be honest, a lot of the established fluff is terribly unoriginal and shallow.

I for example, really hate Necrons thematically; honestly they seem like nothing more then an attempt to one up all the other races in awesomeness with an ascetic chosen because Terminator 3 happened to be on that night. They seem like way more of a stereotypical "13 year old" army then Chaos tau. But I don't try and say they violate fluff older fluff, because they don't in any way. Chaos Tau are the same.

Despoiler
13-03-2009, 13:27
chaos tau. umm i'd say improbably but not impossible. like its said before i doubt that chaos wouldn't cause entire cadres to turn.

mostly likely it would turn odd warriors. even an etheral (to which i believe tzneech would be the only chaos god with a chance of corrupting an etherals mind) might be able to convince and lead a small force with the false corrupted, illusion that they are fighting for 'the greater good'. but is again very unlikely.

the low warp pressense means that the likelyness of it is reduced even more as chaos would be more likely to pick up humans or eldar. both of which have a much higher warp pressense than tau.

so although not impossible. the likelyhood of one member of the tau let alone whole armies is near zero.

The Gothic Me
13-03-2009, 13:42
so although not impossible. the likelyhood of one member of the tau let alone whole armies is near zero.

I can't imagine it's much lower then a whole chapter of marines turning.

Captain Micha
13-03-2009, 13:43
I can't imagine it's much lower then a whole chapter of marines turning.

And that happens at least twice a week.

The Orange
13-03-2009, 15:19
the likelyhood of one member of the tau let alone whole armies is near zero.

What about a Nurgle plague? Can anyone seriously contest the chance that a cadre might fall victim to an illness, maybe encountered when investigating the disappearance of a fringe colony?

sydbridges
13-03-2009, 15:25
What about a Nurgle plague? Can anyone seriously contest the chance that a cadre might fall victim to an illness, maybe encountered when investigating the disappearance of a fringe colon?

I can't wait to hear how a small warp presence makes you immune to disease.

Despoiler
13-03-2009, 22:55
never thought bout good'o'nurgle like i said its not impossible for chaos to currupt. and never did i say they we're immune to disease. yh it could happen lol. mind you that springs a great image.

Tau leader: what the hell happened?

Infected tau: well its kind of a funny story really, we where exploring that ice planet we discovered the other week. and well we went out exploring in the cold and well.... we all kinda got the flu.

Tau leader: and....

Infected Tau: so we got talking and kind of agreed that with us being sick then the 'greater good' thing isn't the thing for us. we would rather go worship nurgle... which in the long run is better than resting for a few days with warm drinks. so sorry bout that.

Tau Leader:.........................