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TrojanWolf
11-03-2009, 00:28
This question came up due to the following situation.

I was using my WoC, and had a unit of Trolls that had rolled on EotG and now caused Terror (before someone can ask how Trolls cause Terror). Due to a lost combat, a unit of Dwarf Warriors ran from the Trolls and got far enough away that the Trolls couldn't catch them.

Dwarf turn, and my Terror-causing Trolls were easily within 6" of the fleeing unit of Warriors. We couldn't decide if the Dwarfs could rally during the rally phase, or would be forced to keep running due to a Terror causing unit being within 6".

What do you guys think?

Ultimate Life Form
11-03-2009, 00:38
As far as I know, fleeing units are Immune to Psych, so no Terror Im afraid.

Greyfire
11-03-2009, 00:39
The terror causing unit would not prevent a rally. And like TrojanWolf said, the unit is immune to psych anyway while fleeing.

I think 40K has a rule like that but I don't play it so I'm not sure.

redben
11-03-2009, 00:47
Page 46 of BRB under 'Subsequent Actions of Fleeing Troops' -

'A unit that is fleeing cannot fight, shoot or use magic and is immune to psychology'.

Furthermore, given the timing sequence. If a unit does rally it does not have test for Terror that turn as testing for Terror is the very first thing you do, long before testing to rally troops.

TrojanWolf
11-03-2009, 00:49
Much thanks for the help. I did ask in store yesterday, but we couldn't find that part in the rulebook.

The most useful thing I've rolled on EotG, and it doesn't help me one bit. :cries:

redben
11-03-2009, 00:54
I tend to find there's normally a lot of situations covered by the BRB but they're not always in the places you'd expect. Though it would increase the size of the book and likely make it less cost-effective there are a fair few rules which would benefit from being repeated across two or more sections of the book.

Neckutter
11-03-2009, 02:18
yeah EotG makes things a lil wonky somtimes. :)
the dwarves can rally no problem. assuming your opponent can role under 11 Ld. :P

Nurgling Chieftain
11-03-2009, 02:26
If a unit does rally it does not have test for Terror that turn as testing for Terror is the very first thing you do, long before testing to rally troops.We had that come up in a game recently, but the other way around - if you fail a terror check at the beginning of the turn, do you get to try to rally almost immediately afterwards? As far as I can tell, the answer is "yes", although of course you won't be able to do much else that turn.

Greyfire
11-03-2009, 03:56
Sorry, but no, you can not rally on the same turn that you panic. There is a spell that can do it, and maybe some army has an item that can do it, but in general you will end up with at least one round of fleeing.

See page 19, the first long winded sentence at the beginning of Rally Fleeing Troops.

Nurgling Chieftain
11-03-2009, 04:42
Ah, it looks like I missed the first sentence. Silly me. Okay, that brings up a subsequent question: do they then flee a second time in the compulsory movement phase of the same turn they failed their proximity terror check, having already executed a flee move when they failed the check, and not eligible to rally?

Greyfire
11-03-2009, 05:05
You might get other answers than this one, but my understanding is this:

Start of Turn - Take terror check! Oh no, I failed! Make note that unit will Flee!
Step 1 - Declare charges with my units that are not cowards.
Step 2 - Rally troops fleeing from the previous turn.
Step 3 - Now compulsory moves - And this is where all troops fleeing now move, and by my understanding this would include the unit that failed the panic check at the start of turn.

Units normally flee during compulsory moves but there are exceptions. I know that the terror check on page 51 of BRB says "immediately" but in the FAQ the second question in the Psychology section seems to support my interpretation. It says that units that flee due to being charged by a terror causing unit flee during the following compulsory movement phase. They don't flee during the declare charges phase. So it seems like the same thing would work for start of turn terror checks.

Of course, I could be wrong, but that's my understanding. If someone sees a flaw in all this please let me know. Thanks!

BTW, I think we're getting close to a different discussion: can a unit flee multiple times during the same turn or even the same phase? That question has been handled in several other threads already and it still makes my head hurt to think about it. I'm glad that doesn't happen too many times in my games. (You see, failing terror checks and fleeing only two inches takes all of the nasty "but what if"s out of my games. :) )

Braad
11-03-2009, 06:45
Hmm, I can't find anything that says otherwise... so yes, I guess you move again in your compulsary movement phase.

redben
11-03-2009, 10:17
Yes, just as with a unit that chooses Flee as a charge response you don't move fleeing troops until the Compulsary movement phase. Page 20 of BRB under 'Compulsory Moves' states -

'sometimes troops go out of control for some reason, either because they are overcome by sheer terror...'


The extact timing sequence is -

Test for Terror
Test for Stupidity
Resolve all other 'Start of the Turn' psychology (such as O&G Animosity) and all other Start of the Turn effects in the order of the player whose turn it is choosing
Declare charges
Opponent declares charge responses (if any)
Rally any fleeing troops aside from those who began fleeing earlier in the turn
Compulsory moves that the player has no control over (such as fleeing troops, Chaos Spawn, Fanatics etc)
Move in chargers (in the order the charges were declared)
All other movement


There may be exceptions to this, such as the triggering of Fanatics when an enemy model comes within 8 inches of the Night Goblin unit, but this will be clearly stated.

Braad
11-03-2009, 11:46
Yes, just as with a unit that chooses Flee as a charge response you don't move fleeing troops until the Compulsary movement phase. Page 20 of BRB under 'Compulsory Moves' states -

Is this true? On page 51, it says you take a terror test at the start of the turn, and if failed, will immediately flee away.
Though I find your solution more logical and practical, I find the actual rules don't really say that.

PeG
11-03-2009, 13:35
I would argue that fleeing as compulsatory movement in the first available movement phase is actually immediately. That you would have to flee two times from a falied terror test at start of the turn would not make much sense.

Braad
11-03-2009, 14:15
No it doesn't, does it.
However, with GW 'always' is most of the times not 'always' at all, so I can easily see 'immediately' not being 'immediately' in some situations. I'll discuss this with my mates, and probably well play it your way.

redben
11-03-2009, 17:05
It makes it explicit in the rules for compulsory moves that this is when you move units who fail a Terror test. I realise that the rules for Terror would seem to contradict that but the compulsory movement phase is the first opportunity to 'immediately' move.

Mercules
12-03-2009, 13:55
And it DOES make a difference the order of things when dealing with Declaring Charges and moving troops.

I've declared charges that were later blocked by troops who didn't rally and ended up fleeing into the way. This happens a lot on the flanks where the side of the board is the closest board edge. It has also gone in my favor where I've had a frenzied unit not have to charge because something moved into the way keeping me out of a set up bait and flee.

Which reminds me of a pet peeve. Do NOT remove your fleeing troops just because US fell below the point of being able to rally. They can still have a big effect on the battle as they move across the field fleeing.