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Dark_Knight
11-03-2009, 06:22
I want to plan ahead on my collecting of skaven and frankly I want to do this as intelligently as possible. I don't want to buy crap I will never field on the battlefield if you know what I mean. With that said I have it in my mind that I would start with something like this:

-10 Warplock Jhezzails (must have!!!)
-Grey Seer (Screaming Bell?)
-Assassin (must have!!!)
-80 boxes of Clanrats
-Warp Lightning cannon
-2 Warplock engineers
-14 Gutter runners (could be used as night runners if need be)
-20 Plague Monks
-8 Plague censers
-Warlord
-4 packs of Rat Swarms

Does that look like a good start? I would use some Clanrats as slaves if the list required it. I'm not paying that crazy price for so few slaves per box. At so few points it isn't worth it yes yes? :)

Axis
11-03-2009, 07:39
Assassins are pretty bad (well, overly expensive) in the current eddition.

Also 80 boxes of clanrats?!?!?!?.. i assume that either means 8 boxes or 80 clanrats. It looks ok in general though.

Darkmaw
11-03-2009, 07:57
Hi, here's what i think:

10 Warplock Jhezzails (must have!!!)

Sounds like a good choice there regardless of whatever army u are planning.

-Grey Seer (Screaming Bell?)
--Warlord

In general Skaven benefit more from having a Warlord (due to leadership issues). But a grey seer would make for alternative lists so i say get both.

-Assassin (must have!!!)

Yes...only if they are unit upgrades like DE.

-80 boxes of Clanrats

Go ahead, you can never go wrong with clanrats. They can be modelled into slaves, clanrats, stormvermin what not. But if i am not wrong, a new plastic box is coming and it might be easier to rank (tails).

-Warp Lightning cannon

Might wanna hold off that...since besides the Elves, all the other books have >2 rare. So there is a high chance that there will be new rare units (?Doomwheel, Burrowing monster).

-2 Warplock engineers

That is assuming no other wizard upgrades are available (except magic items)like in the current list (clan pestilens/plaque priests). In the current context, yes these would be a must.

-14 Gutter runners (could be used as night runners if need be)
-20 Plague Monks
-8 Plague censers

These are all staple choices for most Skaven armies.

-4 packs of Rat Swarms

I wouldnt touch rat swarms. The only advantage is the 360 charge arc. Otherwise they die too fast and costs too much.

GuyLeCheval
11-03-2009, 08:26
I suggest waiting till the new book with the new models comes out...

SteelTitan
11-03-2009, 09:41
yeah i was just about to say that....the model comes out in a few months (around october right?)...i think it is worth the wait unless you want to buy ugly models or models that get a rule change in the next book.

Foegnasher
11-03-2009, 10:04
dont forget the giant rats. think of them as your "fast cav" unit in the skaven army. 4 packs, 6 wide and 5 deep, gets 10 attacks and charges 12" with a static cr of 4 (usually) great for flanking and takeing out small units.

the cannon is too random to be any good. the swarms suck because the crumble too fast and they are stupid expensive points wise.

the new book is comeing and we are almost certain to get new clanrat plastics. if you can wait until july/august, then we are gonna get some tight new rules and sweet new models.

remember, numbers numbers numbers.

moose
11-03-2009, 11:07
I can pretty much echo everyone else above.

A grey seer is a reasonable choice with 2 warlocks, though if you get a warlord(chieftain) instead of an assassin - you can then have a BSB which is very important for skaven because of leadership.

Otherwise it looks fine, from that it sounds like you can make a decent 2000pts list. I'd advise you to play it, then when you want to expand to 2500pts, you can go for nightrunners/plaguemonks/giant rats etc when you know how you want to further diversify your list.

In terms of giant rats the easier way to collect them (free), is by picking out all the rats off the clanrat sprues and finding some spare bases to stick them on. You should get quite a few for free just off the clanrat sprues. Oh and you of course get some in the battleforce.

Moose.

OldMan
11-03-2009, 13:09
I dissagre with some of the statements.

a) assasin is useless. Don't buy those guys

b) Cannon - i prefer them over censer bearers. The are ultimate anti-chariot weapon in scaven arsenal. They arent as random as the seem to. While strenth of attack is random (unlike normal artilery), the attack is almost certain to hit. It has average range of 27", and goes through everything. No guesing, no overshooting and no not reaching the target. IMHO it is better to have a risk of delivering S2 hit, than of not delivering a hit at all.

c) 80 boxes of clanrats :eek: ?!! This would give you 1600 models, and precisely 64 blocks of 25 rats. 8-10 boxes i understand, but not 80.

d) warlord vs grey seer. It depends on what kind of army you intend to create. If you want SAD army, take seer, if hordy skaven, go warlord

moose
11-03-2009, 13:17
I dissagre with some of the statements.

a) assasin is useles. Don't buy those guys

b) Cannon - i prefer them over censer bearers. The are ultimate anti-chariot weapon in scaven arsenal. They arent as random as the seem to. While strenth of attack is random (unlike normal artilery), the attack is almost certain to hit. It has average range of 27", and goes through everything. No guesing, no overshooting, no not reaching the target. IMHO it is better to have a risk of delivering S2 hit, than of not delivering a hit at all.

c) 80 boxes of clanrats :eek: ?!! This would give you 1600 models, and precisely 64 blocks of 25 rats. 8-10 boxes i understand, but not 80.

d) warlord vs gray seer. It depends on what kind of army you intend to create. If you want SAD army, take seer, of hordy skaven, go warlord

The assassin isn't useless, it can do well espcially with The Gouger in a unit of gutter runners going knight hunting, or in your generals unit.

Warlord and grey seer are both good choices, just because you have a grey seer doesn't make you SAD. If you like magic and want a seer youre not necessarily being cheesy, it's this with a combination of millions of jezzails/weapons team thats beardy.

The warplightning cannon is good, and is generally quite reliable - I agree with this. Though it does have the tendancy at least once per game to not do a great deal, but thats the price you pay for its raw power potential.

Moose.

Dark_Knight
11-03-2009, 14:45
Thank God I asked. Yeah, I think I will wait until the new book comes out. I might just buy one Jhezzail to model up real cool in the mean time. My Bretonnian Knights will think I'm cheating on them but whatever. :) I will probably have to update this post when the new book comes out. Btw I meant 80 clanrats, not boxes. :) I edited my post a little but didn't finish the job before posting.

mrtn
12-03-2009, 00:33
I think it's a good idea to start with the models you like, and wait with the rest. The plague monk box is new (and awesome!) so if you like them you can start with a box of those and maybe some rat ogres and giant rats. The clanrats will hopefully be replaced.

Darkmaw
12-03-2009, 12:02
Cannon - i prefer them over censer bearers. The are ultimate anti-chariot weapon in scaven arsenal. They arent as random as the seem to. While strenth of attack is random (unlike normal artilery), the attack is almost certain to hit. It has average range of 27", and goes through everything. No guesing, no overshooting, no not reaching the target. IMHO it is better to have a risk of delivering S2 hit, than of not delivering a hit at all.


While the WLC is reliable, the censer bearers are one of the most, if not the best hammer units in the skaven arsenal.

2 magical attacks with hatred at Str5 with a 360 charge arc and additional toughness test...They are like Swordmasters on steroids!!

And its silly to be planning for a SAD army at this moment when the new "direction" of the book is unknown..

Max_Killfactor
12-03-2009, 12:47
I think it's a good idea to start with the models you like, and wait with the rest. The plague monk box is new (and awesome!) so if you like them you can start with a box of those and maybe some rat ogres and giant rats. The clanrats will hopefully be replaced.

I agree. If you want to get a start on a Skaven army, I'd buy some boxes of plague monks and rat ogres to paint up, since both those kits are relatively new.

You should also get a lot of extra rats from those kits which can be used for giant rat packs. Sometimes I even mix giant rats into slave units to make them look even crappier.

OldMan
12-03-2009, 14:19
While the WLC is reliable, the censer bearers are one of the most, if not the best hammer units in the skaven arsenal.

2 magical attacks with hatred at Str5 with a 360 charge arc and additional toughness test...They are like Swordmasters on steroids!!

And its silly to be planning for a SAD army at this moment when the new "direction" of the book is unknown..

But they are so unwieldy. You have to keep them in front of monks, and have to screen them from missile fire. Also, their potential is often wasted, especialy when you are not fighting something well armored.
Worse, cannon is a must against hydras and chariot spam. In fact it is chariot spam that drove me to using cannons. Luckily chariots were nerfed in 7ed.

Incoming
12-03-2009, 14:31
Wahahaa 8 boxes of Clanrats!
Thats good.
1600 Skaven :D

Nice-nice. :P

Edit
12-03-2009, 15:06
Skaven have tons of options, but I find myself rarely taking over 6 jezzails, never taking the bell or assassins, always taking at least one unit of censur bearers and monks and 1-2 units of tunneling gutterrunners

and its not just the models I have, as I have well over 10k of rats :P with 2 bells, 4-5 assassins, and about 18 Jezzails, it's just I find the other available units/characters to be more useful. of course this is all my opinion, but figured I would share

also as has been said, it all may change come late summer :)

Edit
12-03-2009, 15:14
But they are so unwieldy. You have to keep them in front of monks, and have to screen them from missile fire.

just have to be within 3" til you charge (successful or not) doesn't need to be infront.
Ya they take some missile fire but skirmish with T4 is good enough to keep them from getting whittled down too bad by str3 shooting. they are weaker vs magic missiles as they don't have to hit and are typically str4.

PeG
12-03-2009, 15:19
Skaven is often considered to be cheesy if they bring to much shooting or magic to the table and this is sometimes also true in a very competitive environment. I witnessed a game between skaven (2 WLC, 2 rattlings, 3 warlocks+ warlord) against daemons (special character lord Kairos, 2 tzeentch heralds, 12 flamers :eek: with 3 units of 18 horrors as core).
To my surprise skaven got the comments about bringing a cheezy army before the game started.
Once they started playing skaven got ripped to pieces by magic and I dont even think he got to fire anyone of his guns. In an environment with this type of daemon armies were do you draw the line for skaven cheese?

OldMan
12-03-2009, 17:08
It is sadly quite true. In my last battle against HE i felt stupid. My three 85pts warlocks were blasting everything and everyone, while his three 120pts HE wizards were doing next to nothing. In fact vast majory of kills were thanks to warlocks.Warlocks ARE overpowered/underpriced. Its only because other armies are now even worse we don't hear complaints about it so often.

As for censer bearers i dont like them for one more reason. Being frenzied skirmishers, they are likely to charge something that isn't fuly in charge range. I remember when i had to charge Cold One Knights, when only two bearers could make contact with enemy. The rest gathered behind the first two and all they could do was to pointlesly gasify themselves.