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SamChaosInc
11-03-2009, 16:01
Hi guys, I'd appreciate some help finalising this list. I've not played with DE before and thus don't have much of a clue as to what I'm doing.

What I'd like is a fairly well rounded non-magic list but with magic defense. The magic defense in question will be the ring of hotek, but I have to decide how to get it into the army as the 2 heroes I have can't equip it, meaning I'll have to make some changes.

The list as it currently stands -

Hag Queen (General) + Cauldron = 200
Master BSB w/Great Weapon, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak + Banner of Hag Graef = 152 (in executioners, to give ASF great weapons)

20 Warriors w/full command = 135
10 Repeater xbows = 100
5 Dark Riders w/full command, shields + repeater xbows = 150

5 Shades w/Bloodshade, great weapons & light armour = 113
11 Executioners w/full command = 162
18 Black Guard w/full command = 269

Hydra = 175

Total = 1456

I'm thinking I might ditch the cauldron/hag and use the points elsewhere, but I quite like the model so would like to keep it if I can. The benefits of the cauldron are being somewhat limited by the fact the only unit benefiting from the 'Stubborn' rule is the executioners and they are in a unit with a master who is also the BSB. It's debatable whether its worth 200 points just for the 5+ ward/KB/+1A choice.

Another thing is that, as I've previously said, I'd like to get the ring of hotek in as I currently have no magic defense, but the Hag can't take it and the master is already the BSB. If I were to ditch the cauldron I could take a sorceress with the ring in another unit of xbows, or take another master in a unit of dark riders or something along those lines.

As it currently stands I have no magic weapons so ethereal VC is going to be a problem, what's the best way to get magic attacks into the army bar a master with SoM or something common?

Any advice will be much appreciated.

g0ddy
11-03-2009, 19:15
Hi~

Couple of problems :)

First off, the master (bsb) is not khainite and therefore cannot join the Executioners, youll need to take a hag BSB for this... I would suggest giving her manbane, an additional hand weapon and hand of khaine for some protection.

A couple other things spring to mind...
I think it is unwise to purchase a standard for your dark riders. (100vps lost to the enemy), I am also not confident that there isnta better way to spend those 18 or so points for the blood shade upgrade (but keep the great weapons!!!!) the LA could also possibly go.
The rest are issues youve already raised yourself :
Im not fond of having a wizard toting around an item that makes her miscast more often... the ring of hotek could probably be used effectively on a unit champion - however this is not ideal as it makes him a prime target for 'assasintion spells' that are either bound items (itty ring etc) or can be cast easily. The solution for this that I came up with for my (albiet 2000 pt) DE movement/combat army... was to give my bsb the ring and have his unit champion carrying around MR1. But alas, this wouldnt work in your situation where you need the BSB to carry the ASF banner for the Execs.
(See everyone.. dark elves cant have their cake and eat it too - GW development does have a brain! and uses it... :P)

~ zilla

SamChaosInc
12-03-2009, 11:25
Cheers for the advice man, see below my modified list.

Master w/Great Weapon, Armour of Darkness (1+ sv) & Ring of Hotek = 134 (in Warriors)
Death Hag BSB + Manbane, Hand of Khaine & Banner of Hag Graef = 190 (in Executioners to give ASF)

19 Warriors w/full command + Banner of Cold Blood = 144
10 Repeater xbows = 100
5 Dark Riders w/shields & repeater xbows = 115
5 Dark Riders w/shields & repeater xbows = 115

5 Shades w/great weapons = 90
11 Executioners w/full command = 162
18 Black Guard w/full command = 269

Hydra = 175

Total = 1494

Mooglemen
12-03-2009, 17:28
I would caution against giving shield to your dark riders as it makes them lose their fast cavalry status. Give them a musician instead to help them rally after they flee from anything that charges them.
Also, keep in mind that the ring of hotek is not a guaranteed defense. Not sure where you would get the points, but you may eventually have to concede to the need for dispel scrolls.

SamChaosInc
12-03-2009, 18:13
Good advice man, I left shields off in my list, then army buildered it and added them, which makes the loss of fast cavalry rule less obvious.

As for the magic, that's the one part of the list I'm not happy about. I might switch out one unit of dark riders, get rid of the shields and try find enough points elsewhere to get a level 1 sorceress with the staff of sorcery. That'd be 135 and I'd get 115 from the riders, 6 I have left anyway and 5 from the shields (126 total), so I'd only need 9 more points. I'd rather keep the riders, but the extra defence might make it worth it.

The only other real hole i can see is I have no magic weapons, so some things will be un-killable. I'm not sure how or where to rectify that. Any advice? (Bar sticking biting blade on someone).

cyberspite
12-03-2009, 20:20
If your worried about magical defense you might want to consider a small unit of harpies, they are fairly cheap but with their flight move can be effective at taking out wizards sitting in the front rank of a unit. They will get hammered by the unit, but not before you get 6 attacks on the wizard.

As for the magical attacks I'm not sure of a way round it, biting blade might be your best option, if your wiling to jig things around a bit then hydra's teeth or the lifetaker could be effective but they are more expensive and it seems like you pretty much have what you want in the army now. Really depends how often you expect to be up-against ethereals

cyberspite
12-03-2009, 20:26
Oh, and to find the 9 pts I would drop 2 warriors and run them as 18 (6x3)

g0ddy
13-03-2009, 18:35
You could safely drop the banner on the Warriors as well (the magic banner I mean...)

If you lose the shields and the banner of cold blood.. could you buy 2 more executioners? 7x2?

If you want to take a wizard.. In all honestly I think you should drop the ring - and while your at it theres probably not much reason to take the noble at all at that point.

Have you decided you dont want to take the cauldron anymore?

(EDIT: Im not sure im sold on the idea of using ASF Execs without the cauldron :S

You can also probably afford to drop say.. 3 black guard? to free up points for harpies? or something else?)

~ Zilla

SamChaosInc
15-03-2009, 15:36
Apologies for the late response. Regarding the cauldron, while you may not be sold on ASF executioners do you not think in an army with only 1 khainite unit, I'd be paying 200 points for 6 extra attacks on 1 unit. I don't need anymore executioners so to get more benefit I'd need to use some witch elves, by which point I'll be changing a lot of the list and I'm not a fan of the hassle associated with frenzied units, though I do like models.