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Matt1982
11-03-2009, 16:53
I first started in warhammer with a dream of a grand green horde... this enthusiasm didn't last beyond painting the first regiment of 40 forest goblins however as I surrendered to the reality that I would never get around to actually completing a proper horde army to a painting scale I'd be happy fielding.

Trully my respect for those like Foe_Gnasher who have stuck at it and done so and kept it to a high level of quality is boundless.

With that set-back in mind I looked around for a smaller, more elite army and decided the Empire looked like fun. Again however my lack of patience in the face of large infantry blocks sent me scampering back to the army book shelves and finally I plumped for Chaos.

I've spent many years creating mixed armies, Beasts, Hordes and more recently Daemons and Warriors but now, older and wiser, I want to return to the Empire and give them a proper go. I've had a couple of idea's for armies but the two leaders are either a Reiksguard army or a Stirland border force. I've only worked through the Reiksguard list so far but I'll tag the second one on once I've run through it.

Templar Grand Master; Sword of Might, Holy Relic, Aldred's Casket of Sorcery - 240pts

Captain; Battle standard, Doomfire Ring, Bronze Shield, Full Plate, Barded Warhorse - 147pts

Captain; Orb of Thunder, Full Plate, Shield, Pistol, Great Weapon - 100pts

Warrior Priest; Sigil of Sigmar, Dawn Armour, Shield, Great Weapon, Barded Warhorse - 160pts

11 Inner Circle Knights; Full command, Banner of Arcane Warding - 356pts
General goes here

10 Inner Circle Knights; Full command, Steel Standard - 330pts
Battle standard and Warrior Priest go here

6 Knights; Musician - 146pts

6 Knights; Musician - 146pts

6 Knights; Musician - 146pts

19 Greatswords; Full command, detachment of 7 swordsmen - 262pts
Captain with Orb goes here

25 Swordsmen; Full command, detachment of 7 swordsmen - 217pts

Total - 2250pts

Idea is the two large knights regiments would punch down one flank and turn in to roll up the enemy while the chunky infantry blocks move up inside of them to hold the centre and the small knights units dance around on the far wing baiting and redirecting. The sixth knight in each group is just for a little added durability and maybe even punc if they com across a light flank regiment on the opposition side, though we all know it'll be his mount that does the damage if they do some ;)

I realise it's very light on magic resistance with only the one WP and no wizards, which is why I've gone for the banner of warding and the icon to defend the two big blocks. The counter point is the abundance of bound magic, as this will be an all comers list I wanted as many of these as possible to use up enemy dspell dice in case I need to get off a particular one of them without a reliable caster present.

For the greatswords, if I do end up going for this list, I'll be aiming for converting to Reiksguard foot knights while the swordsmen are to be squires/templar guardsmen.

Anyway, grateful for thoughts or idea's, I know the Empire isnt the best of choices for an attacking army but this would be for friendly games only, so please no advice along the lines of two steam tanks and lord on dragon - bare in mind the theme :) Will tag up the alternative Stir force tomorrow.

Cheers, to anybody who made it this far, for reading through all of that :)

Zoat
11-03-2009, 20:11
Attacking empire works surprisingly well actually as long as you remember that it is static CR and not wounds that win your combats. This kind of implies infantry supported by cavalry, but cavalry based armies can be done. They are just not as good as Brettonia that has the opposite focus (cav supported by infantry).

I've played low-magic non-gunline Empire for many years, and here are some general hints:

1) All combat units need to be big enough to ignore the standard d6 S4 hits => infantry units must be large! Detachments should be 10-12.

2) All other units should be expendable.

These two ensures you don't waste DD on simple bolts of different kinds.

3) If you want to go no-magic, scrap all bound items. Most opponents will have the defense to dispell them. If you want magic get a lvl 2 with Rod of Power.

4) The second rank of a cavalry unit costs a lot and provides only +1 (+2) CR. For the same cost you could get another unit.

5) Enemy characters can tip CR. Have at least one character that specializes in neutralizing them. Van Horstmans is a standard gadget for this! :)

6) Have a plan for countering marchblockers. I often use twin hellblasters to cover the backfield, but maybe that breaks your them.


Hope this helps!

Matt1982
12-03-2009, 11:33
Cheers Zoat, looking at it again your advice certainly hits home, my dependance on the bound items was borne from a fear of the dreaded fliers that I could see getting behind the lines and march blocking everything. If I take your other advice though and split the two big cavalry blocks into 4 regiments of 6 and send them in two waves then the following two could charge anything that lands behind the first wave and if they fly all the way to the back of the second line then they wouldnt be march blocking the front line who could carry on regardless... I like this idea, will give it some more thought, cheers! Plus it saves me having to use artillery which I'm trying to avoid and it saves me some points from the bound items to tool up the characters for more hard hitting combat roles and boost the detachments sizes.

Marvellous :)

I'll scour my book again tonight and work all these changes out, not had a chance to work on the Stir force but I'll be aiming for more of an infantry force there with copious warrior priests and maybe one small unit of knights of the sacred scythe, mostly because I love their fluff :D

Matt1982
13-03-2009, 11:47
Right, here's the revised version with the broken up mega-knights units, bumped up infantry squads and revised magic items selections.

Templar Grand Master
Barded Warhorse, Full Plate, Shield, Lance, Holy Relic, Laurels of Victory
245pts

Captain
Battle Standard Bearer, Barded Warhorse, Sword of Might, Dawn Armour
139pts

Captain
Barded Warhorse, Full Plate, Shield, Sword of Fate
119pts

Warrior Priest
Barded Warhorse, Shield, Biting Blade, Van Horstmann's Speculum, Sigil of Sigmar
160pts

5 Inner Circle Knights
Full Command, Banner of Arcane Warding
200pts
*Templar Grand Master and non-standard Captain here

5 Inner Circle Knights
Full Command, War Banner
195pts
*Warrior Priest and standard Captain here

6 Inner Circle Knights
Full Command
196pts

5 Knights
Musician
123pts

5 Knights
Musician
123pts

5 Knights
Musician
123pts

6 Pistoliers
Musician
-u/k-

25 Swordsmen
Full Command, 12 Swordsmen detachment
252pts

25 Swordsmen
Full Command, 12 Swordsmen detachment
252pts

Approx 2250 - will add appropriate cost of Pistols regiment after weekend

I'm still not too happy with the gear set on the warrior priest, his regiments role will be to head for a heavy looking enemy regiment and accept challenges that go after the battle standard and then reveal his van horstmann's. I took the biting blade so he could still hit first from the charge rather than letting his probably hero-level opposition strike first, even with the speculum I'd imagine they'd have something magical which would carve him up if I wait to strike second with great weapon. Battle standard can then happily lay into the enemy regiment with his sword of might and rerolls for hatred along with the rest of the knights and their lances while the enemy character is tied up with the priest. Throw in the standard, battle standard, war banner, plus kills they should be able to overpower static combat res.

Similarly for the other hammer with the general I'm hoping his laurels combined with his many attacks and lance for S6 should allow his unit to plow through while the captain plays bodyguard until he peels off to go after his Sword of Fate target if it doesnt happen that the regiment as a whole are going for the targets bunker.

Behind those two will go one or two of the vanilla knights regiments to clear up anything trying to march block and maybe hit the flanks of any enemy regiments alligning to flank my characters blocks. The infantry will advance straight up the centre while the cavalry punch goes up one flank and the remaining vanilla knights take the opposite wing to distract and stop anything flanking or getting behind the infantry, think it could work?

Zoat
13-03-2009, 14:52
This looks a lot more coherent! Plenty of steel, some good item combos and a lot of men. The Empire! :)

The only thing I find odd is the 4 units of 6 vanilla knights. For expendable support units I think 2-3 units of 5 is sufficient. As you have free special slots I would upgrade one unit to IC and give them a banner. I'd also reduce the remaining 3 to 5 knights each.

I have some more ideas (see below), but that's more tools of personal preference. I think you should get a game or two with the list and see how the army feels!


Personally I think greatswords are too expensive to field in ranked blocks. Their main characteristic is stubborn and it works also in smaller units. I would take 2 blocks of 25 swordsmen and a small flankguard of 10-12 greatswords.

You also lack protection behind the lines. Fliers, diggers, scouts and to some extent even skirmishers will be a pain for you. As I said I tend to favour the twin hellblaster solution, but that is not for you.

Flaggelants? Almost always useful.


Ah, enough of confusing ideas... Get a game! :)

Commodus Leitdorf
13-03-2009, 15:04
If you plan on useing a knight heavy list I recommend at least 2 units of Pistoliers. They compliment Knights wonderfully and can be help to re-direct march block the enemy. In addition, using them in support of a cavalry charge by hitting a flank is awesome.

I would also recommend switching the Greatswords to more Swordsmen or Spearmen. They are going to lag behind and only get to the fight after you knights are stuck in. If they join the fight you will need cheap CR and Swordmens good at it/cheaper.

-Commodus

Matt1982
13-03-2009, 15:47
Thanks guys, I'll follow that through then and sub the greatswords for more swordsmen instead. Between doing that and dropping the size of the vanilla knights to 5 each I'm saving almost 200 points, enough for some pistoliers and an upgrade on the fourth vanilla squad to IC(allowed thanks to losing the special slot used by the greatswords) and bulk their command out. Cheers!

Zoat
13-03-2009, 17:39
This looks like a good starting point for a slightly different empire army. Try to get some games with proxies and see what happens. I never played a similar build (my no-magic build was more infantry, low characters), so it will be interesting to hear about your adventures!