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the blind knight
12-03-2009, 06:57
Recently,I have heard people complain that soon IG would,with the release of the new codex,become what the Orks have become.The Orks went form an underplayed underpowered army to a tier 1,everybody has them army.


While I agree,that this happens with most codexes,I dont think that this will happen to the Imperial Guard.

Why?

Simple,because they dont have the same advantages that the two main armies have:Smurfs and Orks.

Space Marines are played because they are all plastic,small sized,easy to win armies.And,while you might not want to admit it,everybody wants to be the Knight in shiny armor that saves the day.

The Orks on the other hand,are the polar oposites.They are a huge,easy going,fun to build /paint and easy to win with.Those that dont want to be Knights in shiny armor,are the people that just want to wreck havoc,and Orks are perfect for that.

Now lets look at the Imperial Guard.Flom a fluff perspective,these are the guys that get killed while waiting for the cavarly(Smurfs) to arrive and save the day.They are no great warriors,but instead depend on wars of attricion to win the battle.

And while the models are indead cool,they look puny and small compared to your regular Smurf and Nob.


The point I am trying to make here is that the bandwagon crowd,manly consists of kids going for the next cool thing,and easy to win army.I dont think that the IG can offer that.

That means that probably,the bandwagon will consist of the part of players,that play to win,and by the time they collect and paint their army(100+ models) the players of other races,will learn about the next codex.


Thank you.

laudarkul
12-03-2009, 07:12
I hope not:D...I just do not want to see a lot of kids playing guard...it si enough that they play SM/CSM so they should remain at those super uber armies.With the new codex it seems that IG (based on rumours regarding troops and so on) will have some option to make a not so big overpowered list. I prefer to play with all my models painted and now I'm struggling with 20 IG to finish them(another squad and some GL/ML/Flamers troopers just to have them) in order to buy another 1 or 2 20 IG Boxes (who'll disappear).
And btw the Guard player play for fun and win, which can be seen only to DE players;).

Nicha11
12-03-2009, 07:18
Space Marines are played because they are all easy to win armies.

SNIP

The Orks on the other hand,are the polar oposites.They are easy to win with.


And there is the reason that if the new IG codex is overpowered people will start playing it.

Nobody jumps on a bandwagon that doesn't win all the time.

Znail
12-03-2009, 07:22
The Bandwagon isnt quite as large as percieved either. Alot of the numbers people look at are from tournaments, but thats not realy representative of everyone.

Ddraiglais
12-03-2009, 08:27
While I already have traitor guard, I am tempted to start an army or two on the Imperial side. The concept of air cav is very tempting. I've also always wanted to start a couple of Krieg armies (trench and panzer). The air cav will probably become a reality. If GW ever does the plastic great coats, then the Krieg armies will too. I don't know if that makes me a bandwagon fan since I already kinda play guard.

As far as the kiddies are concerned, I think there might be a lot more than people think. GW has masterfully released a kit right before the IG dex (the multiple SH tanks). I could see a lot of kids asking for IG just so they could field those beautiful behemoths. The new valks might also be a big selling point to the kids and/or owners of other armies.

One thing that might keep a lot of people away is the price of an IG army. It's the most expensive army out there in real money (as opposed to points) that I can think of. The cheap cost of basic infantry will make starting a guard army seem outrageously priced to a lot of people.

Znail
12-03-2009, 08:57
Its not realy that expensive unless you plan to swarm the enemy with lots of infantry platoons. The good amount of plastics makes up for the amount of infantry somewhat, so there are other armies that can cost more.

Brucopeloso
12-03-2009, 08:58
I think the cause of the bandwagon for orks was AoBR rather than the new codex.
I wanted to collect orks for a long time but the cost for the large number of boyz needed always put me off, then with AoBR I found myself with some 60 boyz, 10 nobz, three bosses and 6 deffkoptaz for a little less than 60 (bought one box, traded the marines minus the dreadnought and the terminators, then bought another box together with a friend).
All the nice plastic kits further stoked the bandwagon as well.

Korras
12-03-2009, 10:31
I hope not:D...I just do not want to see a lot of kids playing guard...it si enough that they play SM/CSM so they should remain at those super uber armies.With the new codex it seems that IG (based on rumours regarding troops and so on) will have some option to make a not so big overpowered list. I prefer to play with all my models painted and now I'm struggling with 20 IG to finish them(another squad and some GL/ML/Flamers troopers just to have them) in order to buy another 1 or 2 20 IG Boxes (who'll disappear).
And btw the Guard player play for fun and win, which can be seen only to DE players;).
so.. kids are only allowed to play SM/CSM, and that's bad enough already? comments like that aren't really needed, now are they? or, do you pretend to be able to tell others what they may or may not do, and how to enjoy a hobby? :rolleyes:

after being in this hobby for 10+ years, I guess I can call myself a 'veteran', but I wouldn't even dare to pretend that I can decide for others what is best for them. nor would I dare to tell them what sort of army list they are allowed to make.

you, apparently, think different.

Occulto
12-03-2009, 10:40
The reason why Orks have become prevalent is because they've just received one of the best deals in GW history by way of the starter box.

*shakes head*

I agree with Ddraiglais. Some people obviously have waaay too much spare money on their hands if they can build an army like IG so quickly, purely to jump on the bandwagon. :rolleyes:

If they get it painted, then they've got too much time on their hands too. :p

I just don't see it happening.

Mojaco
12-03-2009, 10:44
Yep, AoBR is a big cause. As are the brilliant models which attract a lot more people to Orks in my area then their rules (which do help, of course). The WD 'get orks' bombartment might have a part to play as well.

Korras
12-03-2009, 10:58
I agree with Ddraiglais. Some people obviously have waaay too much spare money on their hands if they can build an army like IG so quickly, purely to jump on the bandwagon. :rolleyes:

If they get it painted, then they've got too much time on their hands too. :p

I just don't see it happening.
so people who work hard enough for their money to spend on GW stuff have too much money on their hands? of course, they'd be better of asking you for advice as to what to do with their money? :rolleyes:

those people are what makes GW to invest in Valkyries and Baneblades and Stompa's. people who will buy a couple of them, and who have to suffer through the 'too much money on your hands?' comments, while they've most probably earned the money by working hard enough for it.

and as for your last comment: so, people who don't get it painted don't have enough time? if being a fast painter no longer counts, then lazyness no longer factors in either? :p

I urge all of you to reconsider before making assumptions. some people work long hours to earn their money, some work double jobs. some freelance besides their regular job to earn some extra money. after they earn it, it's their choice what to do with it. I recieve said comments every now and then, when I again buy some Guard. trust me, it gets old real quick.

Brucopeloso
12-03-2009, 11:02
Yup, completely fell for it ;)

NOW. MUST. RESIST. GUARD........ AAAARGH! :(

Seriously I think that whatever the reason of the bandwagon jumping if it leads to more diversity (i.e. less marines armies) it's welcome.

The true bandwagon crowd will get bored and do the next "new thing" (increasing GW sales and flooding e-bay with lovely deals) while the a few will stick with the army they collected (and hopefully painted) and keep at it thus keeping 40K varied and fresh.

vman
12-03-2009, 13:23
I think guard armies are for the more experienced modelers

The army offers treadheads an endless amount of conversion work... you can also take painting to a new extreme with the use of pigments and such

The infantry themselves are very detailed in that they all have faces and fleshy areas exposed such as hands, arms, chest... and the fact that they cost little points wise means that theres bucket loads of them to paint.

And with todays economy the way it is, theres that extra element of difficulty when it comes to collecting a new guard army

On one hand i can see lots of new players popping up purely because they are all jizzing over the new GW valkyrie model, however i think the recent release of orks and space marines has drawn out many people willing to create new armies

However on the other hand it would be nice to see more fellow guard players out there, because once in a while someone comes up with a neat idea that inspires us all

Bring it

tsutek
12-03-2009, 13:35
I just wish the IG infantry plastics would suck less.. The heads are enormous! A resculpt with a bit less "heroic" proportions (more in line with FW IG models) and I'd jump on the bandwagon for sure! As the mini line is ATM.. well, if I could do a 100% vehicle army, then, perhaps..

Wouldn't mind a cheap second-hand SH kit though.. So bring on them bandwagons, I say!

Nostro
12-03-2009, 13:39
I think guard armies are for the more experienced modelers

I agree that an experienced modeler will have a lot to do with IG, maybe more than with other armies.

But I strongly disagree that IG would deter inexperienced modelers. Nothing is more easy than assembling and painting an army with 4 squads of infantry and then only tanks.

By the way if the rules are good, I see "tank + good rules" as a main bandwagon cause for IG compared to "AoBR + good rules" for Orks. I can totally picture it happening.

Bunnahabhain
12-03-2009, 14:19
I agree, I don't see Guard picking up much of a new player/new army bandwagon.
The new codex looks much better than the last, but not Ork good. High money cost as well- expensive tanks, transports and infantry, let alone specialists like ogryns and ratlings. Many things being FW or conversion only, at least until the 2nd wave gets here, doesn't help.

However, I do expect quite a few existing Guard armies to be dusted off, and having a few new units added. Some new models, and the opportunity to use many of the others that have been so badly underpowered in the previous book will do wonders.

NealSmith
12-03-2009, 14:51
I have to say the Ork Codex was already out when I started playing 40K (I'm no kid, but I'm new to 40K). I didn't have any inkling to play Orks at all... until AoBR came out...

That was what got me started collecting/painting an Ork army. Lots of new toys/models for the Orks only furthers that. It still isn't my "main" army, but I paint a unit here or there when I get tired of painting SMs...

I don't think any "explosion" in guard players will be from new guard players. I think you will find a lot of old guard players dusting off the models and playing them now that they will be viable in 5th edition. An infusion of new models/toys will help further that. I don't think it will be as big as the Orks because there is no guard version of AoBR...

Mannimarco
12-03-2009, 15:02
ive got a massive guard army tucked away at the back of my closet since the start of 5th ed and that god forsaken kill point system, now im scared that if i bring them out to play with all the new toys we're getting im going to be accused of jumping on the bandwagon

same thing happended with the orks, ive played them for a while, they get a new codex and i redo my old army and all of a suddden im a bandwagon jumper.

theres a lot of hate for the guard, theyre just not the cool (read: easy) army to play and even with the new codex i dont think we will see hordes of kids starting guard

Captain Micha
12-03-2009, 15:21
Guard are awesome

there are more guard players now more than ever thanks to Dawn Of War I'd wager.

Well there -were-. I bet alot of those disenfranchised Guard Players (like myself) are going to be coming back though with the new Guard Dex.

the1stpip
12-03-2009, 16:45
Not entirely true. I started collecting Orks cos I liked the new models.

SylverClaw
12-03-2009, 16:57
While I understand the OPs comment I find the line of thinking behind it highly annoying.

Like other posters here I've been playing Guard since way back when. I've still got a bunch of Spiders tucked away somewhere (and the first ever Commissar model, who is now a filthy traitor guard officer).

I've got a big, all infantry army which took a long time to paint. I've got draws full of other guard models - in fact I think I own, pretty much, at least one of every Guard model ever made. I *******' love the Guard.

And my Guard get pounded. Often and soundly. They are a weedy army in some respects at the moment (and I'm a useless general). I have no doubt that will change with the current trend to power up Codexs. I didn't ask for that - I've been faithful to the torch-wielding cannon fodder forever even if I lose all the time (and I do).

Therefore I would resent the thought that someone might look at me and think I've jumped on the bandwagon to play a power army. I've paid in blood (well, pride) over the years playing as Guard - if they get a little power up it's only what the faithful deserve for sticking by the ordinary human.

I know that's not what you were doing, OP, but the very fact you raised it inspires the thought in others.

Sure, I guess there will be power players jumping on this and rolling out all tank armies which are cheap and easy to paint. But then there are folks like me who have had a butt-load of tanks boxed up waiting for their time to roll out again - your statement would paint me with that same brush.

There is room enough in this game for all sorts. Power players included. I'll lose to them as well as I lose to all the kiddies, vets and average joys I always lose to. Pointing fingers at any of them is a waste of time and, often, you'll be pointing at the innocent anyway.

DarkMatter2
12-03-2009, 17:05
I'm on a 4-1-1 run with my Guard army ATM.

I don't know about all of you. :p

the1stpip
12-03-2009, 17:50
My Guard are fairly successful. I lose to power builds, but I tend to win against most standard armies.

But then, I am a Guard Player who complains I don't have enough fast attack slots. I want more Hellhounds and Rough Riders.

dlantoub
12-03-2009, 20:59
I will be in for Guard only if the rumours about Greatcoat plastics are true. If not then *le sigh*