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HighElfGeneral
03-05-2005, 04:24
Archmage - seer, ring of fury, silver wand, dispel scroll - 345 (Life)

Mage - lvl2, Staff of Sorcery - 170 (Fire)

Mage - lvl2, jewel of dusk - 145 (Shadow)

Commander - PoH, Enchanted Shield, Dragon Armor, Helm of Fortune, GW - 115

10 archers - 120
10 archers - 120
10 archers - 120
10 archers - 120

19 Swordmasters - full command, banner of sorcery, amulet of pur. flame - 342

4 repeater bolt throwers - 400

Total 1997pts

so what do u think?

Moi
03-05-2005, 04:49
You should try playing a Sea Patrol army, it may be closer to the type of army you're trying to make...

Is this army good on the battlefield? It doesn't seem to be very solid to me... Your archer can get crushed by just anybody, your swordmasters will surely get flanked by more manoeuvrable enemy units, and war machine hunters will do short work of your repeater bolt throwers. I also think you have far too much points sinked into that archmage (seer with silver wands and life magic? you sure you need those 5 spells?). Into your swordmasters, your commander would be better off with the armor of the gods (AS 3+, +1S, saves may not be improved by any other means, models on foot only for 35 points) That amulet of pure fire should be replaced by other stuff. I would backup those archers with a unit of spearmen to absorb some charges, at least.

What's your thoughts?

HighElfGeneral
03-05-2005, 05:09
hmmm. u see my experience with spearmen are they get charged, lose combat and get run over. so i tend to not spend 250pts(ish) on a unit of 20(cos u would) cos thats a fair chunk of the army. plus with a possible 12-14 casting dice 6 dispel dice(with +2 to dispel) plus a good player(id like to think i am) would choose his targets effectively, and systomatically destroy units before they get to my battle lines. also, the commander has only been killed once in hth(by a kroxigor champ), the amulet of purifying flame is possibly the best magic item for its points(15!!!) and giving -3 to cast on the swordmasters, added with the +2 to dispel. it makes opposing mages think again about targeting the unit. with the archmage 5 spells gives him options(and Life is just the best lore EVER!), also the bound item lets him get another spell out, just to rub salt in.

but that army has worked well, its bringing 40k into fantasy(1st turn i win) hehe :D

Moi
03-05-2005, 05:34
Yeah, it does seem to have potential, but I've never performed that well with this type of army. Different experiences! ;) I'll probably give a try again someday.

BullBuchanan
03-05-2005, 09:21
what exactly do you plan to do against heavy cav? your arrows will bounce right off of Bretonnians, Chaos, or really any other heavily armored troop. Horde armies will over-run you once they reach you, and you picked the 3 least effective magic lores for your list so you probably won't win that phase either.

I'm not trying to shoot down your gameplan by the way. I'm just trying to help you out so that you arn't 3 hours into a game wishing someone would literally kill you. My advice is this.

First off it looks like you want a Magic/Shooty army. This is fine, you just have to realize the risk/reward for doing so. Your strategy for this type of army will obviously be obliterating your enemy before he reaches you. Unfortunately your only CC unit is spearmen and that isnt going to be enough to take out what survives your shooting. You need more and stronger units in order to make this work. Id Suggest the following troop changes.

Ditch your commander and ten of your archers. Your commander will be of no use in a magic shooty army so his points can be better spent elsewhere. The Ten archers are excess as you probably arnt likely to effeciently use 40 archers at once. Next put in two units of 4 or 5(4 would be good for just using one box of 8) silverhelms. These guys have an armor save of 2+ when tooled up and a movement of 8, plus a S5 on the charge(lances) this should provide you with the CC punch you need in combination with your swordmasters.

Next your magic needs a major retooling. Since you cannot afford to get into Close Combat you must utilize lores that deal damage hard and fast(Death and Heavens) I would put Death on your archmage as that is the lore most likely to utilize 5 spells to full potential(there isnt a bad spell in the lore) Heavens is great because of Uranon's which can be cast anywhere on the table and doesnt allow armour saves. Possibly the best spell in the game as far as the 8 lores go IMO. Dont take comet of Cassandora though, its a waste of a spell as its not that effective, and its pretty weak as well since is was revised. second sign of amul will allow you to re-roll D3 dice in your turn which is also key for your list. I would go with Uranon's, and Secnd Sign for Heavens.

I was astounded when I saw this list and you didnt have high magic listed. Arrow atraction is a 6+ spell and allows you to re-roll ALL failed hits via shooting on the target it was cast on. With 4 RBT's and 30 archers(if you rework the list) that could be devastating. Fury of Khaine,Flames of The Phoenix and Vaul's Unmaking are also great spells to chose your last spell out of.

Keep in mind these are only suggestions and feel free to explore other ways to do it, but i've found this method in theory and practice to be very sucessful.

Hit Strong,Hit Hard and from far away. :)

Major Defense
03-05-2005, 17:29
Archmage - seer, ring of fury, silver wand, dispel scroll - 345 (Life)

What is it with people buying the Seer honor for level 4 mages!? You already have the Silver Wand there so you're almost certainly going to get every spell you want from that lore.

Faust
03-05-2005, 18:05
@ Major Defense, the reason for using the Seer on the level four is so you can make sure you can pick the spells you wish to have. Now I only do this when I have a level 2 running around town with the Archmage, I then give the level two the wand thus increasing his chances of obtaining the spells I really want.
@HighElfGeneral You said you were having problems against enemy knight charges? Here is a solution to this problem, use a unit of 10 archers and deploy them in front of your spearmen (note you can also use shadow warriors)

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When doing this have his heavy calvary hit the archers first, because we all know that hey will break in combat! Make sure hold with your archers, then the enemy will overrun into your spear men of 20 strong. Now it is your turn. Flank him with whatever you have laying around the army, other spear elves, swordmasters, Silver Helms. It will all work nicely for you, since those lovely flanks are open. Also you could stick a chracter in there with the Lion Guard vow and the banner that makes them immune to Fear/Terror. When doin this wheel your unit so that your flank is exposed to the enemy heavy calvary ( what general doesnt want to hit some blouses in the side?) making sure your commander is at the other end of the unit.

side 1 side 2
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ssssssssss
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The enemy hits the side 1 and since the commander is not in the front row ( remember they hit your side 1 flank) he cannot be targeted for any hits. Also make sure you buy champions for your commanders so they can soak up some hits.
Also I would high recommend the staff of solidarity on your Archmage, for 20 points and it makes you immune to the first miscast, you will using a lot of magic through that model, better make sure you have some way of not blotching up the first miscast.
Faust

Sariel
04-05-2005, 00:37
Well, first things first -
1) Very much a case of bringing 40K to fantasy.
2) You'll know if you've won or lost by turn 2, since that's when his cavalry/flyers are going to be in charge range.

Couple of points:
1) I'm with BullBuchanan - drop a unit (and possibly 1 rank of Swordmasters) for 2 units of Silver Helms. No need to tool them up - just give them shields and a musician, and you get a pretty respectable unit that hits just as hard as any other heavy cavalry in the game for a mere 112 points. Sure, they'll only have a 3+ save, but they're going to run some (much-needed!) insurance for the rest of your army.

Thing is, any magic&missile-heavy army almost always needs some fast, hard (and EXPENDABLE) units to run out into the middle of the field to mess up your opponent's lines and slow him down, and since you don't have any Eagles/Reavers/Shadow Warriors, cheap, throw-away Silver Helm units will just have to do....
;)

2) I'd swop out the Staff of Sorcery for the Ring of Corin. First thing you do in your magic phase - use it to target enemy mages, since they're the only characters who'll almost ALWAYS have a magic item (ie dispel scrolls). And since you're playing heavy-magic, why not, eh?

HighElfGeneral
04-05-2005, 03:05
u see the thing is my main opponent is a cheesy as hell tzeentch daemon legion. and well i love heavy cav, just like terminators(make them take armour saves, they'll die eventually) plus against brets, ill always get first turn(cos who wouldnt pray) and kill the hardest unit the have. the thing with high magic is, that its just not that good. the revised life list is great,(i took seer so i can get thorn, stone + wood, because u would) plus most heavy cav is T3 so the lores i have picked will deal with that easily enough. but the good thing about being a high elf is u have options. u can go i was going to use life before the battle but with the lack of decent terrain ill use heavens. also the army used to have a unit of 8 silver helms instead of 2 units of archers(cos i didnt have the models) they did alright but then they charged 3 screamers and caused a wound. and then got smashed in the flank by 2 Tz chariots(the ones that fly, damn are they hard)

but fire is great, shadow is decent(heavy cav, just dont like creeping death) and life can take out war machines, skirmishers, flyers, mages u name it it can kill it.
also the thing with a high elf army is that there really isnt anything expendable, because the cheapest guys are 11 points each, and well they arn't cheap(like goblins/gnoblars).i mean shadow warriors are what 15 points and well its not that cheap when they get killed by bloody gnoblar trappers who are half their cost.

however im thinkin of retiring this army and starting an army of tepok :eek: (lizardmen if u didnt know)

Sariel
04-05-2005, 03:38
also the army used to have a unit of 8 silver helms instead of 2 units of archers(cos i didnt have the models) they did alright but then they charged 3 screamers and caused a wound. and then got smashed in the flank by 2 Tz chariots(the ones that fly, damn are they hard)


Well, that's the reason why I try to squeeze in at least 1 unit of 5 Silver Helms with shields and a musician. The whole unit only costs 112 points, hits pretty hard, and if the other guy sends two Tzeentch chariots after them, well... that's 280 points going after 112 points. Put another way, that's 2 flying chariots that won't be gunning for your RBTs.

As for expendable troops, you don't throw away the Silver Helms like Gnoblars. You use them to threaten flanks and divert charges away from your archer line.

Moi
04-05-2005, 05:23
u can go i was going to use life before the battle but with the lack of decent terrain ill use heavens.

Uh... I don't know for you guys, but my playgroup and I chooses our magic lores before getting to see the terrain. I think adjusting lores on the terrain you're playing is like twiking up your list on your opponent's army, unless of course both players agree to go that way.

What about you guys?

Oguleth
08-05-2005, 14:01
Most of my opponents go for choosing lores when seeing the terrain. Or allow it rather. Most people I play against have certain ideas beforehand, so seldom pick lores because because the terrain is a bit different than normal (only cases is taking beasts instead of life when there is very little terrain on the table and so on), but it isn`t unheard of.

As for the list, it somewhat resembles my old "boring" HE shooty/magic list. Skip the archers, the archmage and the commander, go for 4 lvl 2 mages (both bound spells, a couple of seers, taking either life or high magic, picking damage spells, jewel and a scroll or two), take a couple of 16 spears (with standard, possibly musician), 15-16 swordmaster with sorcery standard and 1+ small silver helm units if you have points to spare. Spreading out the character points is a good idea if you ask me, a lucky spell and that archmage is dead... If you are up against stuff with lots of armor, take the ignore save spell in the heavens list on the seers, otherwise take the life or high. (Life would be better against non-engagement armies and skirmishers and suchlike)

My army worked quite well, in the case of win ratios at least.. But it`s hard to make such armies interesting to play with and against over time.