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electricwolf
12-03-2009, 17:20
I'm trying to build a mobile Eldar army and i'm wondering what i should add for Fast Attack? I have Warp Spiders but i'm wondering if i should have more Spiders or add something else.

I currently have Falcon Grav tanks and i need to get wave serpents to transport my Storm guardians and Dire Avengers but i want to flush out my army.

I'm thinking of getting Jet bikes as Troops.

the1stpip
12-03-2009, 17:47
Vyper Jetbikes, while flimsy, are fantastic if used properly.

Or Hawks with Skyleap(?)

RampagingRavener
12-03-2009, 17:51
If you're taking a lot of Falcons, Jetbikes, and Wave Serpents, then I'd go with Vypers as well. They seem to fit the theme of list far better than Warp Spiders or Swooping Hawks will.

shin'keiro
12-03-2009, 18:50
Jet bikes as troops aren't that good... Vypers are the way to go here! with 2 x shuirken cannons per vyper for a squad of 3 sending out 18 shots at srength 6 for 180 points.

deathwing_marine
12-03-2009, 18:53
I run mech Eldar, and I don't use any of the fast attack options. Everything else is plenty fast, even our heaviest gunship!

Captain Micha
12-03-2009, 18:54
I would rather spend the points on Dire Avengers and give them a Serpent transport long before picking up a Jetbike squad in Troops.

Don't forget to pick up an Exarch with Blade Storm.

Vypers are really really nice units. I wish the Tau's version were as generous on the point cost as the Eldar's. Instead we get 20 pts of overcost thanks to stupid gundrones....

Swooping Hawks look like they can be alot of fun especially with Sky Leap. I'm still tempted to pick up an Eldar force just for the Swooping Hawks.

Vaktathi
12-03-2009, 18:55
You can build an Eldar army that is far more mobile, fast, and hard hitting than any other army without utilizing any fast attack at all. I'd avoid Vypers, they are just too damn expensive for what they do. Warp Spiders are cool, but have to be used carefully.

load up on some fire dragons, dire avengers, wave serpents, and you're good.

Bunnahabhain
12-03-2009, 19:17
I second/third etc the consensus.

Eldar Fast attack options, although not bad, are the weakest element of the list.

Given how fast you can make the rest of the list, you simply don't need to use the fast attack section at all.

Captain Micha
12-03-2009, 19:22
No you don't with Eldar. But they have such a cool looking Fast Attack section model wise.

I mean come on the least attractive thing they have are the Warp Spiders and even they look awesome. Besides I think Eldar Fast Attack is probably the best section in their Dex best suited to kill Orks. (IMO of course. I don't play Dar, but I do play -against- them regularly)

And nothing in the FA section is useless.

Unlike what we can say for a certain unit in the Troops section... *cough* guardians *cough*

deathwing_marine
12-03-2009, 20:34
And nothing in the FA section is useless.

You forgot about Swooping Hawks. They're basically useless now. ;)

TwilightOdyssey
12-03-2009, 20:49
No you don't with Eldar. But they have such a cool looking Fast Attack section model wise.

hehe, that was my thinking ... but, they sure are purdy! I admit, I use Hawks mostly because of the look. (I'm not a win at all costs type of player, however)

Karnstein
12-03-2009, 21:14
Eldar FA section is crap, except for spiders. Vypers are worse than SM speeders (less points, better firepower and BS) and tau piranhas (better AV, 4+ save for 5 points) and they are vastly overpriced thanks to the changes GW made in ed5 in regard of fast moving skimmers &gun-chart.

Spiders are nice, if they fit into your force.

Hawks are crap, being a pseudo "jack of all trades, master of none" unit, which won't get any job done. They suck against tanks (hello haywire and glancing chart), they suck in cc (compared to the 3ed dex) and they suck against troops, unless you jo-jo them with a dual autarch and drop plates on ork mobs.

friend of mine tried the spears in his 4ed SH force even in major tournaments and he dropped them very fast after that for a jetlock squad.

So I agree with deathwing_marine, unless you want to field spiders you don't need to take a look into the FA section of the eldar dex. Jetlock council and aspect units flying around in serpent are fast enough and beat everything in FA except spiders hands down.

the1stpip
13-03-2009, 00:15
I disagree with the Jetbikes being useless.

T4, 4+? save, and 12" move. You just don't us them for anything else except objective taking in turn 5. Turbo boost on to the objective gives you a 3+ cover save.

Faddlevins
13-03-2009, 01:46
Jetbikes are pretty ok. 3+ save actually. Mostly it's the JSJ they can do with shuriken cannons. They're cheap enough that they're either ignored or the enemy is wasting resources trying to kill them.

Murphys Avatar
13-03-2009, 02:13
Jetbikes only work in large units and are really good. You need to give the enemy other targets so that the unit is ignored and then spring the jetbike squad on them with good effect. But these are a troop choice so its off your point.

In regards to Eldar FA choices the only thing that works is the Warp Spider squad. Vypers are now next to useless and Hawks are pretty but..... useless.

If you use the warp spiders right they are devastating especially now the trend is combat squads. Kit them with the exarch at 4 x S6 shots and power blades and a five man squad takes each combat squad down a turn.

AtnaShadow
13-03-2009, 02:53
Vypers with EMLs and Shuriken cannons actually seem like they could be decent as far as a FA choice goes, but I don't have my codex with me so I'm not sure how much that would run. Spiders are great fun, and shining spears seem like they could be fun, especially with an attached Autarch.

As said, Hawks are sadly the most redundant unit in the section. Their best use (it seems to me at least; I've never used them) is light infantry killers, but Dire Avengers can do this same job for almost half the cost, and arguably do it better, not to mention Warp Spiders, which (I think) are the same cost and would take up the same slot. So while they're not terrible at their job, they just seem to not be worth it in the long run. Really is a pity though, as they're some of my favorite models Eldar have.

Lord Asuryan
13-03-2009, 04:00
Warp Spiders are GREAT, don't let anyone tell you different. you have to be samrt with them--but if you're NOT smart, and ARE playing eldar, you've probably lost before you even started. with a pretty insane volume of fire, plus the ability to assault jump, they are utterly fanatastic nuisance engines that will accomplish your goals almost no matter what. if your enemy goes after them, make him work to get them. if he doesn't, exploit it...back armour, space marine combat squads with heavy weapons, damaged units...pretty much anything with less than a 2+ save should fear the spider. and for only 127 points (5 spiders, xarch, dual death spinners) they're cheap!

What I don't get is why anyone would take swooping hawks--they're stormtroopers, with wings, minus special weapon options, for only 1 less point than a spyder. sure they have the grenade pack, but how much do you think THAT'S worth? if the space marine CM's bombardment's only worth 25, for a strength 10 AP 1, I'd guess not much. about the only feasibly use I can see is as skimmer-killers--which was feasible in 4th ed, with the indestructo falcons, etc, but in 5th, there are better ways. I suppose they could be good against liths and DAMN BLESSED HULL LAND RAIDERS (god, I hate them) but that's hardly a reason to take them. though in apocalypse it might be worth it for the great phoenix court formation thing.

Vypers, i don't have a lot of experience with them, but they look VERRRRY fragile, for a low BS weapon, and cost almost as much as a war walker with two weapons and scout (outflank! yay!) could provide some anti-infantry fire, I guess. or contest objectives. maybe.

Shining spears are expensive, but run in a 4-5 man squad with xarch and Autarch, they are kickass. carnifexes, terminators, and other hard target fall with incredible ease. these guys aren't so much a scalpel as a precision laser. they WILL kill whatever they charge, barring terrible luck, but by the same token, they WILL die horribly if charged by anything with any close combat ability. never, ever forget the ranged attack. it might not look like much, but I killed a land raider with it once--remember that if the xarch has a starlance, you've effectively got a short range bright lance--and one that your opponent could easily forget.

so, to cap it, shinnig spear and warp spiders are good, swooping hawks are bad, and vypers are situational. I'd advocate Warp Spiders first and foremost--but remember to keep the squads small, otherwise they get difficult to hide.

good luck.