PDA

View Full Version : Eldar aspect warriors stats



Sons of Alaitoc v.2
13-03-2009, 19:42
I believe that the stats for each aspect should represent there skills, for example, Dark Reapers have BS 4 and WS 4, which is the same as Howling Banshees (and every other aspect) yet, Dark Reapers are supposed to be experts at long-range, meaning their BS skill should be higher than Banshees, who are close combat experts, and Banshees WS skill should be higher than Dark Reapers, as Reapers aren't designed for close-combat. What do you think of this?

Poseidal
13-03-2009, 19:52
Eldar aspect paths don't work quite that way.

I think it's fine that they all have the same statline, as there is more to aspect training than simply firing down a range all day.

Think of them more like Martial Arts, each a different style of combat, exercising and training the entire warrior rather than just one part of him like they would as an athlete.

captain malachi
13-03-2009, 19:55
Maybe for the exarch, but the normal aspect warriors have trained on several paths usually (if I remember my eldar fluff right). So their natural abilities would be varied. The exarch is lost on the path so might become better at it than the others over time.

Marshal Sinclair
13-03-2009, 20:06
A Dark Reaper is still deadly with a blade, and a Banshee is still a beast with a shrurican catapult. The particular aspect is about the style of warfare they favour, or their philosophy of war (cheesy I know). They all know the ins and outs of war better than any human or space marine alive, because they have been on their paths for hundreds or even thousands of years usually, but they just chose to use a particular style.

Sons of Alaitoc v.2
13-03-2009, 20:12
Maybe for the exarch, but the normal aspect warriors have trained on several paths usually (if I remember my eldar fluff right). So their natural abilities would be varied. The exarch is lost on the path so might become better at it than the others over time.

I agree, maybe changing stats for every single aspect warrior is a bit to much, changing the exarch's WS and BS to suit the aspect they are in would be better, as they almost live that aspect.

Marshal Sinclair
13-03-2009, 20:17
All Aspect Warriors live that Aspect, it is just that eventually (eventually could be hundreds of years away for an Eldar) they will give up that Aspect for another, whereas an Exarch never will.

AtnaShadow
13-03-2009, 20:21
Admittedly, Exarchs are all already WS/BS 5, which is better than a lot of other armies HQ choices. As said in the Save the Firedragons thread, Exarchs, like regular aspect warriors, have traveled many aspects, and eventually became trapped on the path of the warrior at one specific aspect.

So they still retain their old skills and training as well to some degree, which is even reflected in a lot of exarch's having weaponry that is somewhat out of place with their aspect weaponry (DA exarchs with power weapons are probably the best example of this.

kikkoman
13-03-2009, 20:25
But then you've got the Reaper phoenix lord being absolutely killy in hth combat with his gigantic scythe.

If there's something that's needed for aspect warrior stats though, maybe a transition between Warrior and Exarch, somebody who's gone down the path long, but isn't trapped in soul armor (yet)

Poseidal
13-03-2009, 20:34
Exarchs especially should not have stats depending on Aspect.

Most, if not all Exarchs have trod many of the Aspect Warrior paths, and incorporate the skills they learnt on them to themselves. They only become trapped after the become an Exarch on the last path they trod.

Irisado
13-03-2009, 22:24
The notion that Aspect Warriors need differing WS and BS statistics relative to each other doesn't really stack up in my opinion for the reasons others have given.

Of course Dark Reapers did used to be very nasty in the shooting phase, as back in second edition they had a piece of wargear called the Dark Reaper Range Finder, which basically gave them +1 to hit.

That, combined with the old rules of the Krak Missile and the much missed Melta Missile (they used to be armed with Missile Launchers for those who didn't play back then) made them absolutely deadly (too deadly really), especially against Marines.

The example of the Dark Reapers is another reason why boosting stat lines doesn't necessarily work in the way you may hope, as it can make a unit too good at that which it does best.

Aspect Warriors have always had identical WS/BS statistics, and I see no reason in terms of either the background or the rules as to why this should change.

chromedog
13-03-2009, 23:07
Wasn't just a +1 to-hit.

It also ignored movement mods for targets. They were the only unit capable of reliably taking down fast moving targets at long range (but were limited to squads of 3 initially - probably why).

The_Outsider
14-03-2009, 00:42
0-10 scale doesn't allow for the sort of stats aspect warriors deserve (in relation to sensible balance).

If we were using 0-100, then things would be different.

AtnaShadow
14-03-2009, 00:45
0-10 scale doesn't allow for the sort of stats aspect warriors deserve (in relation to sensible balance).

If we were using 0-100, then things would be different.

Great, now I just want to see Aspect Warrior stats rendered in the Dark Heresy system. :p

kikkoman
14-03-2009, 01:28
Great, now I just want to see Aspect Warrior stats rendered in the Dark Heresy system. :p

Creatures Anathema has a Dire Avenger statted. They're pretty powerful.

he's got... ws 55 bs 52 ag51 w15
and a buttload of traits like... combat master, counterattack, deflect shot, double team, foresight, hard target, hip shooting, leap up, lightning reflexes, jaded, mighty shot, nerves of steel, quick draw, rapid reaction, sprint

the ranger has ws45 bs55 ag50

there's also a pirate stated, he pretty much has every single talent related to hth fighting and leadership.

AtnaShadow
14-03-2009, 02:23
Well damn, now I have even more desire to get that book. Also now I'm a lot more horrified about running into an Eldar. Hilariously enough, I think that the Dire Avenger has my feral guardsman beaten out by 10 exactly in WS, BS, and AGI.

Starchild
14-03-2009, 07:00
What do you think of this?

Personally, I prefer the simplicity of standard stat lines. We had them from the very first official Craftworld army list, way back in WD 127. The only difference between the Aspects stat-wise was the armour saves: 5+ for Hawks, 4+ for Avengers and Banshees, and 3+ for Dragons, Reapers, and Scorpions. Reapers had targeters (+1 BS) back then, but 3rd edition scrapped that equipment from the game.

Besides the traditional reasons, standard stat lines also make the game faster. I've been playing 40k for a long time, but I still have to be actively engaged to remember everything my Eldar army can do. Differing stats among the Aspects would only make the job more difficult. :(