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Jack Spratt
14-03-2009, 10:19
In relation to the thread "GW wants to kill off online stores - rumour!" I think it would be interesting to see where people buy their models. Please answer even if you havent read "GW wants to kill off online stores - rumour!".

Please comment why you buy your models where you do.

Thanks,
Jack Spratt

Tommygun
14-03-2009, 10:44
My local independent store charges full retail. If I can get 20% off on line I'm going there.
It is also easier than driving over to the store and hunting for a parking space.
If GW kills off online stores I know I will end up buying a lot less if I have to pay full retail.

IJW
14-03-2009, 10:47
You missed out the 'I buy second-hand on eBay' option.

Radium
14-03-2009, 10:53
Online, between the weak pound and the online discount, I get my models for roughly half the price they charge in my FLGS.

zedeyejoe
14-03-2009, 11:01
I shop for the cheapest price.

PS I should add, that actually supplies the stuff ordered.

BattleofLund
14-03-2009, 11:11
Online auctions is my main supplier, but when I want new stuff I get it from my LFGS.

The boyz
14-03-2009, 11:32
I buy most of my stuff either online at a discount or second hand of ebay. Although I do buy a fair bit from my FLGS.

Lord Malorne
14-03-2009, 11:33
I don't buy, I use Warseers trading Forum :D.

Tokamak
14-03-2009, 11:43
I'm now starting to buy my models online. I used to buy from the local store, I feel I should support them as that's where I draw gamers to play against from.

But GW never adjusted the pound to euro conversion. Which means that I would pay around 50% more for my models from their store then when I would order them online. I really think this is ridiculous and GW is destroying their foreign elite stores trough this policy.

Swifty
14-03-2009, 11:51
This thread will not prove anything, Warseer barely represents 5% of the entire gaming community.

P.S. I voted store , I like the service i get :)

zedeyejoe
14-03-2009, 11:57
But GW never adjusted the pound to euro conversion.

Tricky to keep on changing prices because of the currency rates.

I presume all those who want the prices changed, want to do so because the Euro is strong against the Pound at the moment. Well its easy, buy somewhere that sells in pounds rather than Euros, that reflects the true currency exchange rates. I am sure that GW European staff and expenses are still the same price (even though the pound has dropped). Of course if the UK used the Euro, it would not be an issue.

Jack Spratt
14-03-2009, 11:58
I forgot to write my own comment!

I buy my stuff online. I only use GWs site to get collectors stuff. I buy online to get my models at the best price possible. I feel no need to discuss my hobby with store staffers and other customers. For that I use my (warhammer infested) friends and Warseer.

Jack

Khornies & milk
14-03-2009, 12:02
on-line store...20% off, plus a further 5% off that.
Local Indie store...15% off, and it sometimes works out cheaper than the above on-line supplier when Shipping is accounted for.

My Group (8 to 10 of us) hasn't paid full retail for 3 years.

Tokamak
14-03-2009, 12:07
Tricky to keep on changing prices because of the currency rates.

I presume all those who want the prices changed, want to do so because the Euro is strong against the Pound at the moment. Well its easy, buy somewhere that sells in pounds rather than Euros, that reflects the true currency exchange rates. I am sure that GW European staff and expenses are still the same price (even though the pound has dropped). Of course if the UK used the Euro, it would not be an issue.

Yeah, that's what their own online store does. They do the right conversion. They're shooting themselves in the foot right now. I'm sure GW's interest lies in having healthier agents in foreign countries.

sigur
14-03-2009, 12:38
I think you really should have made a distinction between "buying at an online store" or "buying on ebay" (eventhough there's online stores up there too).

Due to the nature of my current project, i bought from ebay exclusively for the past few years. When I did my Dark Elves a few years back, I also got them second hand mostly. Never used GW's online store or any other online store if I remember correctly. Oh wait, once I placed a huge order at GW's telephone order thing around christmas 1997 I think. When I'm in Austria, I like going to the olde indy store. Every once in a while I also go to GW stores, mainly to have a look at new releases and tables and to buy the odd pot of paint or something.

But generally, I got about 90% of my stuff second hand.

Tonberry
14-03-2009, 12:39
It's all about ebay stores with 20% discount + free postage.

plantagenet
14-03-2009, 13:36
I live in Switzerland the exchange rate was extremely good to the UK and buying from a online retailer other than GW allows me to maximise the number of things I can buy for the amount of money I have to spend.

Due to exchange rate I have increased my spend slightly to profit from better conditions. If GW was to get rid of these online retailers would I spend more or less?

Hmm hard to say. I think I would spend less. An example I just purchased the Fantasy miniature of the Chaos Lord on the Juggernaut. I love the model and bought him because I got him for a good price. Bascially 55% less than I would have paid for him in switzerland. I however do not have a Chaos army and if price wasnt what it was I wouldnt have bought him instead focusing my purchases on just those armies I collect...

His purchase has got me wanting a choas army and maybe one day I will give in to my temptation meaning that this one of impulse purchase led to even greater sales. If GW online was my only option then this as I said before would not be the case.

mweaver
14-03-2009, 13:39
We buy new figures almost exclusively from our local independent store. The owner has always been great about special ordering stuff my wife or I want, he holds stuff for us he thinks we'll want to look at, and often calls us when something comes in he thinks we'll like. He gives us a 10% discount on everything (we mainly buy Reaper and GW figures - we used to buy our D&D books there, but we aren't interested in 4th ed.). Anyway, can't beat the service so we firmly believe in supporting him. Sometimes - usually with large purchases - we get a much better deal (best one recently was when he sold me the Black Box that had the lizardman stegodon, 10 Temple Guard, and the army book for $30; there were no instructions for assembling the steggie, but since my wife was buying a steggie, we didn't need an extra set of instructions).

I used to place four or five big orders a year with the GW site, before they cut back on the bitz and old figures service. I still order collector minis from them, but not as often.

I bid on eBay figures from time to time. Mostly some of the older Citadel models I missed first time around.

dax
14-03-2009, 13:49
The majority of the stuff I buy is online - 10% discount and free postage plus the sterling to euro exchange rate basically I get 1 pound to one euro buying online sometimes even better. with regard to the exchange rate its been at or around 90 cent for a good while now enough to justify changing the prices but that won't happen. Tesco in Ieland have announce that as of Monday they will be pricing clothing on a pound to euro basis with a review of food to follow because they're losing to much business to the UK/ Northern Irish stores.

Oh I also buy from a local hobby store on occassion if I need something in a hurry I haven't bought directly from GW in a long time.

Hicks
14-03-2009, 14:13
I buy or trade minis on Bartertown, The Warstore, eBay or here on warseer (wathever is cheaper). I do occasionally buy used miniatures from the LGS (when I find a really good deal) and I buy my paints there too.

The LGS charges full canadian retail prices and sometimes more and it's just too expensive for me, even with the 15$ gift card you get for every 150$ you spend there.

It's also almost impossible to find a parking near the place and when you do you must pay for it.

So in the end I figured that if I think it's too expensive, hard to get there and I don't even use their gaming area, I'd be better of buying online.

Joewrightgm
14-03-2009, 14:20
I buy almost exclusively from Games Workshop brick-and-mortar store here in Michigan. Things like Exacto blades super glue and plastic glue I get from a local Michael.

Mostly because I like the interaction with people.

Corrode
14-03-2009, 14:43
Anything under about 15 I'll buy from the GW store. Usually the difference between shop price and online price is trivial, especially factoring in postage, and it's more convenient just to pick things up when I'm in the store. Tanks and other 20+ kits get bought online, though.

That doesn't include things that are impulse-buys mind. I'm very, very bad at saying 'I want this, but I can wait another two days and buy it online.'

toonboy78
14-03-2009, 14:55
i generall go for the cheapest

take the last year:

25 in store (vouchers)
50 online store (non GW)
120 ebay
50 warseer trading

Dai-Mongar
14-03-2009, 15:09
Well, I don't have a FLGS in my city anymore. There's a toy store that sells GW, but as I'm usually after Warmachine or SG as well, it makes sense to buy online.

Foolish Mortal
14-03-2009, 15:45
I buy most of my models on-line from independent retailers. With many of the discounts available, it's a no brainer for me. As an example I recently bought a Stompa & 2 Shadowswords online, for not much more than it would of cost to buy 1 Stompa & 1 Shadowsword from GW direct.

I have no independent FLGS near me, but if there was, and they offered a discount as well as other ranges of products/supplies, even if it was a very small discount, I would buy from them also.

I do occaisionally buy stuff from GW stores/on-line (mostly collectors or limited edition stuff), but a heck of a lot less then I used to. I don't feel bad about this. I don't game, I don't take up space in the stores other than time spent to buy something, and don't feel that it's my job to financially support other peoples store gaming.

vladsimpaler
14-03-2009, 16:19
It really depends. For most stuff, I go online to buy it, but sometimes my FLGS sells some stuff that is cheaper than it is online.

So it really depends. Like, from most places I've seen, Praetorian HW teams are like $15, and at my FLGS they are $10.

Cane
14-03-2009, 16:35
I buy 99% percent of my models online. As a college student majoring in business I appreciate stores that have adapted to GW's anti-internet tactics and become successful like Neal's thewarstore - offfering people with limited budgets to get into the hobby again. More importantly I'm a major supporter of their "customer service is number one" approach and feel that all businesses, especially ones as niche-driven as tabletop gaming, should strive for this quality and Neal's e-mail and phone support is top notch and rivals that I get locally.

Thats not to say I don't buy paint or say the occasional heavy weapons team when I visit or play at a LGS (haven't played at a LGS since third edition), but when an online retailer can provide the same product 20-40% cheaper, with no shipping costs, no sales tax, and doesn't require me driving out of the way to get it....then its a better venue for most customers. Not to mention the service provided electronically and over the phone rivals some LGS method's of service.

Angelwing
14-03-2009, 17:10
I pick most of my stuff up online. Ebay is my first point of call, then online stores. I only use GW online for specific models that I cannot find elsewhere. The removal of the old bitz service has almost ended my involvement with GW mail order.
I would pick paints and small blisters up from GW stores or a LGS, but I don't have either locally, so I might pop in a grab some on the rare occasion I pass by.

Laser guided fanatic
14-03-2009, 17:31
25% off online. But i sometimes get stuff from GW if it's urgent.

Master Stark
14-03-2009, 17:57
From the local games store.

rivers3162
14-03-2009, 19:18
I don't mind buying in stores up to a certain amount but if I'm after a lot of stuff or starting a new army etc then I'll order online (generally if the stuff I want comes to more than 50). I prefer ordering online, even if I have to wait a week or so because at least I know I'll be getting what I ordered whereas my LGS doesn't stock a lot of GW stuff and the last time I went into my local GW they seemed to have a very limited selection so I couldn't find what I was looking for anyways.

For non-GW stuff (Privateer, AT43, Infinity etc.) I always use my FLGS.

Crube
14-03-2009, 19:27
I go for a mix...

At present, I'm collecting for my next 2 armies... and have started trading, and buying from the trading forums here. I would go to my FLGS for the rest, however, even though they will offer me a reasonable discount of 15 - 20% depending on what I buy, they don't carry much WFB stock. Which is what I want.

Therefore, I'll scour eBay, and then online discounters to get what I want when I want, rather than have to order it all in one go and still have to wait a week, and then go back to the store to collect it... (50 miles round trip to the nearest one that offers any discount at all)

Only when all these options are exhausted, will I nip to GW Aberdeen (100 mile round trip) to pick up a few bits, or contact Mail Order...

laudarkul
15-03-2009, 09:48
I buy the models from the local game store (something like to keep it working).When will be much more fans/members/buyers I think I'm going to go on e-bay/online gamestores.

RevEv
15-03-2009, 10:06
I'm fortunate enough to have a GW store nearby and I am able to visit on a regular basis, ordering the inevitable advance order to be delivered to the store.

Although I have a superb postie, who will leave parcels for me in convenient locations, I cannot always guarantee that she will be working on the day an order is due and I cannot guarantee I will be in for an order, so online stores become a big inconvenience.

This falls down if I want a direct only model. I either have to order in store, hope that the postie will leave it for me, or wait to visit WHW and order there.

thinkerman
15-03-2009, 10:56
I never get any of my models through GW stores - why put up with the crap customer service of staff you dont know trying to be all pally pally with you just to get more cash out of my wallet

If you look across the board online is always going to be the cheaper option. We all saw last christmas how the high street suffered and i believe its fundimentally changed and dying now.

The future for companies is through online sales and discount - look how big play.com has become. They have no extra over heads of costs from stores or inflated high street prices.

For me buying online is here and now, there is so much discount to be had and cash to be saved. Buying through ebay with discount from stores and indies saves alot of money for me. Why should i travel to town or the nearest city to spend more then i can do it from the comfort of my own home?

tk7
15-03-2009, 10:57
I buy mostly from online stores (ebay shops and independents). I don't mind buying occasionally from my local GW, but any purchases there tend to be the odd paint or two, or a sub 10 blister.

I have to balace my spending with a lot of other things, so I have to be prudent when buying models etc.

ehlijen
15-03-2009, 11:12
Given that I actually go to the store's games nights I feel that yes, I should support those people who provide us with gaming tables free of charge.

Also, I hate online payments. I'm one of those people who need to see the money leave their hands to 'get' that it's gone. Not to mention the security aspects that I'm also irrationally paranoid about. At least somewhat.

zedeyejoe
15-03-2009, 11:37
Given that I actually go to the store's games nights I feel that yes, I should support those people who provide us with gaming tables free of charge.

I think (given that people are shopping online now) that it makes sense to charge for those gaming facilities.

ehlijen
15-03-2009, 11:42
It would indeed make sense, but I'd not like it. To the point where I'd stop going. I don't mind paying extra to on the products, but I want to play without having to pay directly. I just can't enjoy games when money is involved directly in some way. Wierd, but that's me.
It'd probably just be the motivation I need to actually go and finish painting my own table's terrain :p

Norsehawk
15-03-2009, 13:48
On larger orders, I do almost always buy online from a 20% discounter.
If it is a collectors model or something really small, I will do GW mail order.

Little things, impulse purchases or when I browse, I go to a LGS that has a smallish selection. There are no GW stores anywhere near me.

zedeyejoe
15-03-2009, 14:01
It would indeed make sense, but I'd not like it. To the point where I'd stop going. I don't mind paying extra to on the products, but I want to play without having to pay directly. I just can't enjoy games when money is involved directly in some way. Wierd, but that's me.

But the 'come and play for free and buy the stuff in the shop' strategy is not working. We all like stuff for free.

mrtn
15-03-2009, 14:15
You missed out the 'I buy second-hand on eBay' option.

For the past couple of years I've bought almost all my stuff, maybe 70%, on Tradera (Swedish ebay). 10% in store and 20% online.

derv
15-03-2009, 14:53
I buy 95% of my stuff online, mostly from eBay sellers. On rare occasion I will pop to my LGS if there is something I urgently need, e.g. paint. I will also on occasion buy from GW online if there is some direct only models I'm after, and would then buy enough to get free shipping.

I've not bought from an actual GW store in over 10 years. Can't stand the hard-sell or all the annoying, smelly youngsters.

ehlijen
15-03-2009, 15:42
Zedeyejoe:
It is working on me and everyone else who shows up for those games nights, as we want the store to stay open. Sure, it may not be enough (and that'd be bad) but I don't think charging for the use of the tables they use to promote their own products is going to work either. It'd just drive even the last of us away into home groups supported only by the online stores.

Codsticker
15-03-2009, 16:43
Lately I any GW product I have bought has been through the Trading section here on Warseer. General hobby supplies such as paint and styrene and what not I buy through the local hobby store.

RevEv
15-03-2009, 16:52
I never get any of my models through GW stores - why put up with the crap customer service of staff you dont know trying to be all pally pally with you just to get more cash out of my wallet


If you were to, perhaps, frequent the store more often then you might get to know the staff a bit better. Indeed you may even get to know their names. I find this makes customer services far better and the chance of them hastleing you far less.

Note to any staff reading this - it works both ways. Get to know the customers who know the game and you may get more money out of them. I certainly put my preorders/mail orders through my local store for this very reason.

- Human
15-03-2009, 16:59
In the past I've bought most of my stuff from places like The Warstore. However now that I've found a FLGS that holds gaming nights, I'm starting to give them more and more of my business because I want to support the place.

Avian
15-03-2009, 17:04
There is no local store and the only practical method is to shop online. Naturally I don't use the GW one if I can possibly avoid it, because their shipping costs to Norway are higher than anyone else's. I don't want to buy a 12 box and then pay 8 for shipping.

Sir_Turalyon
15-03-2009, 17:16
I mostly buy online, second hand - there are always so many great OOP pieces to be had it would be waste of my money to go to shop and buy minis I may as well buy next month :roll: .

starlight
15-03-2009, 17:29
Incomplete Poll... :(


Background: All the FLGS that I've found have gone under.:( The only local GW retailer is GW itself.:(


Currently I trade/buy from Warseer members, then I go online for second hand, then I got to online discounters, then I consider retailers, *then* I look at GW.


If there were FLGS locally who provided hobby/gaming value, I'd go back to buying from them.:)

selone
15-03-2009, 17:58
I do a mix between buy from GW in the town i live and from ebay. Unless somethings a lot cheaper I buy from GW.

Darnok
15-03-2009, 20:01
I usually shop online, and international too. The weak pound helps me a lot. So my main shopping is done through online stores.

I regularly browse Ebay, and find good deals every now and then (but much less than a few years ago). Nevertheless, Ebay is my main source when it comes to rare models.

And I still buy in my local GW. Nothing major, but colours, and the random single model every now and then. This is mainly due to me liking the store in question, and the will to support it at least a bit.

CasperTheGhost
15-03-2009, 20:42
Of course if the UK used the Euro

Now thats just sprouting heresy :p


I never get any of my models through GW stores - why put up with the crap customer service of staff you dont know trying to be all pally pally with you just to get more cash out of my wallet.

I personally think the customer service is fine at my local GW and far better then you get in a lot of other stores. While the staff do try and get people to buy things so does everyone who works in any store. Its part of their job ;).

However, the staff are nice, friendly and I have seen them suggest things which are cheaper (sometimes a hell of a lot) then the original product that the person was going to buy before. You may argue that this is only so the person come back and so buys more but even if that is the case they don't have to do it and at the end of the day, in my opinion, that is good customer service.

I personally buy from my local GW. I don't buy much these days but a lot of the stuff I do buy isn't that expensive with the shift to a large amount of plastic (23.50 for 12 knights is something i'm ok with paying). Sure I might be able to find it cheaper online but there is the hassle of ordering it, paying post and package and then waiting for it.

Although I am lucky enough to be able to pop in to a GW store on the way back from Sixth Form so I suppose there is that :angel:

Casper

Jack Spratt
15-03-2009, 21:23
Can anybody please explain to me what FLGS means?

Thanks

Hicks
15-03-2009, 21:27
Can anybody please explain to me what FLGS means?

Thanks

Friendly local gaming store. :)

JLBeady
15-03-2009, 22:57
I buy mostly from my local GW for a number of reasons; accessible, impulse, convenient, I want to support my local store. I do buy online however typically when I am buying non-GW stuff and decide to pick up some GW stuff with it or I am buying a huge amount of stuff at once.

Cato Sicarius
15-03-2009, 23:49
GW stores for me. it's the easiest for me, I'm not allowed to order online, but my mum is becoming more slack on the subject.

Shipmonkey
16-03-2009, 00:23
The Uk GW webstore is my current best friend. For US shoppers it's near 30% off retail and the shipping is nearly the same price as the US westore. It's near taken more than a couples days for it to get from the UK to the West coast.

Hicks
16-03-2009, 00:33
The Uk GW webstore is my current best friend. For US shoppers it's near 30% off retail and the shipping is nealry price as the US westore. It's near taken more than a couples days for it to get from the UK to the West coast.

Now imagine what you'd save with a UK discounter!

DhaosAndy
16-03-2009, 02:20
Local GW, game there, buy my models there.

Use it or lose it!

Crazy Harborc
16-03-2009, 03:08
GW walked away from the developed by indie stores local area GW gaming community. It seems that the one GW store was unable to take the place of the local indie stores.

I buy most of my wargaming needs online. At this time there is no local indie stocking the historical minies I want. There are two local indies that stock all GW allows any more of GW's product lines. One offers a discount, one doesn't. Both stores do have tables for gamers.

I'll spend my money in the way that impacts my wallet the least......It's called smart business and wise money management.;)

ehlijen
16-03-2009, 03:37
You mean apart from the fact that B&M shops need to actually pay for the premises and thus will inevitably have a higher overhead, especially when put aside extra space simply so that people can play games?

On the charging on exchange rate thing:
All B&M shops charge based on what it cost them to get the stock, current exchange rate be damned. Online stores do the exact same thing, only they won't order the stock until someone wants to buy it. Online shops can do that because some sort of wait is inbuilt in their sales process, so they might as well not stock anything and just order on demand.

So onlines stores:
-don't have to pay for shop premises (a garage or basement will do), of if they do, location is far less important so they can rent somewhere cheaper
-don't have to store stock, so they will need less space, futher reducing their location cost
-don't maintain gaming areas, reducing the need for space even futher
-have electronic price tagging and order on demand so they can stay closer to the daily exchange rate

So running an online store is far cheaper than a B&M store. Therefore it follows that B&M stores will have to charge more in order not to make a loss.

Templar Ben
16-03-2009, 05:00
Zedeyejoe:
It is working on me and everyone else who shows up for those games nights, as we want the store to stay open. Sure, it may not be enough (and that'd be bad) but I don't think charging for the use of the tables they use to promote their own products is going to work either. It'd just drive even the last of us away into home groups supported only by the online stores.

How exactly is that a problem? People gaming together is not inferior just because they are not overpaying a store and instead are using a guys garage. Trust me, I am the guy with the garage.


If you were to, perhaps, frequent the store more often then you might get to know the staff a bit better. Indeed you may even get to know their names. I find this makes customer services far better and the chance of them hastleing you far less.

I have never been hassled at an online store. ;)

Khornate Fireball (Ork)
16-03-2009, 05:07
ChaosOrc is my group's preferred retailer; we're a small group of friends, and so we placed a rather large order a while back, and are planning another. The 20-25% discount, plus Battleforces being cheaper than individual stuff, works wonders.

ehlijen
16-03-2009, 05:13
Sure, meeting and playing in a garage is fun, but its less likely to draw in new people into the hobby.

Templar Ben
16-03-2009, 05:32
Sure, meeting and playing in a garage is fun, but its less likely to draw in new people into the hobby.

You don't know my garage.

I find that meeting people through work or school and explaining it to them is far more effective than hoping that they will happily overpay in a store what they can get for far less online.

Khornate Fireball (Ork)
16-03-2009, 06:14
Well, for me, it was a group of my close friends. As in, talk to them online every day. Basically, I said "40K is cool and I play it" and then let the fluff and models do the talking. I reckon I've got four new people into the hobby like that, and we're all online-orderers. It's convenient and it's cheaper than retail.

Templar Ben
16-03-2009, 06:19
Woo hoo. We have two anecdotes so we win. J/K

Glad to see that others have found that actually talking to people is efficient in gaining new players.

Netherghoul
16-03-2009, 13:50
buying them in a store as well.
however;

I buy them at an Indies.
mostly because it stocks several brands such as; Gamezone, Tales of war, Avatars of War etc.
Could buy em online, but I rather support that retailer imho.
and yes there is the benefitial discount but that's not the reason for me going there.
the vailability of various brands, grand service, having a talk with some coffee & meeting people is.

you'll never see me in a GW store however, it misses all of the above mentioned for me that is.

ChrisMurray
16-03-2009, 14:18
100% Local GW store.

Earthbeard
16-03-2009, 17:46
Pretty much 95% of my purchases are in-store either GW or FLGS.

Nephilim of Sin
16-03-2009, 23:28
I am all for supporting my LGS. However, since I moved over the past few years, none of these places actually feels like a LGS. We have one retail outlet, one that is a comic store with video games and warhammer (kinda cool concept, yes), and another board game place in the mall, but none of them have the LGS vibe that I used to get. That means I stop in for supplies (paint, plasticard, movement trays, glue, etc...) and rarely walk out with models. Although, they seem to plan their half-off sales around my paycheck, as I have been known to walk out spending $300+, but those are savings you can't refuse.

So basically, I try and get all my minis off E-bay, as it is cheaper. I actually used to order from GW through online, but because I live in a state that has a GW store (even if it is six hours+ away from me), I have to pay both ridiculous shipping and tax, so much so that even those Direct Only models are much cheaper for me to get off E-bay.

So yeah, aside from the casual purchase/supplies, almost all of my ordering is done through E-bay now, as opposed to six years ago when it was all done at the LGS.

W0lf
17-03-2009, 00:30
I choose to support my local store as i often game there. If i didnt then i would use a retailer that offers discount and has a nice site thats user friendly.

I would never order off GWs own website unless its mail-order only via my local store (who recieve the money).

Master Stark
17-03-2009, 04:22
How exactly is that a problem? People gaming together is not inferior just because they are not overpaying a store and instead are using a guys garage. Trust me, I am the guy with the garage.

Because home gaming groups in a garage are very insular affairs. They dont interact with the rest of the wider community in the same way that a games store promotes, nor do they introduce people into the hobby at the same rate.

Templar Ben
17-03-2009, 04:48
Do you have anything to support that assertion?

Master Stark
17-03-2009, 04:55
Do you have anything to support that assertion?

Do you have anything to support yours?

VeriNasti
17-03-2009, 05:05
I but my models in the store - even if it is more expensive, the Aus stores are the same price online minus the postage

Templar Ben
17-03-2009, 05:27
Do you have anything to support yours?

Only anecdotes and the fact that the gaming community thrives in many areas without stores. It did so for years with mail order lists and has only done better with the advent of the internet.

Are there places where people bemoan the fact that there is not a store close by? Sure. I am not one because I can make friends without the artificial environment of a store needed to meet someone. I have seen the type that needs a store and those don't help grow a healthy community. Those are the ones that give gamers their reputation.

ehlijen
17-03-2009, 07:40
So are you saying you want wargaming to slide back into obscurity so that you're spared having to share your hobby with those you basically consider unworthy?

Khornate Fireball (Ork)
17-03-2009, 09:18
I rather like the insularity, thanks. I don't like the idea of gaming with random schmoes, much less running a campaign with them. And my group seems to be introducing another player yet. You don't need to go out and meet random people to grow the hobby.

Templar Ben
17-03-2009, 14:22
So are you saying you want wargaming to slide back into obscurity so that you're spared having to share your hobby with those you basically consider unworthy?

Wargaming was not that obscure 20 years ago. At least not in terms of general acceptance. Most game stores serve as a place for the worst to be on display and that doesn't help grow the hobby except with others that fit that narrow view of outcast with nowhere to go.

Go out and make a real friend and then introduce that friend to your hobby. That is how most hobbies grow. If the goal was truly growing the hobby then there wouldn't be a focus on game stores and instead have a focus on Wal Mart. You should really take a look at how many units of HeroScape are moved each year teaching kids the basics of wargaming (movement in 3D, attack, and defense) without the need for a dedicated gameroom.

Fenrir
17-03-2009, 14:33
I nresponse to the original question, I buy nigh on all of my models online now. I'm holding on for Salute in a couple of weeks, but usually use Maelstrom or Ebay.

I used to be a solid GW person - would order in store all of the time as I didn't shop online. When I started shopping online, I would always the GW store.

This all changed when GW got rid of the components service and stripped the store down to the bones.

Now I always buy elsewhere as GW direct provides no incentive for me to go there - I can get freepost on orders under 50 and normally a discount from other stores.

They did it to themselves really, in my personal case.

RevEv
17-03-2009, 14:46
I have never been hassled at an online store. ;)

Hey, I'm just a people person!:D

CasperTheGhost
17-03-2009, 17:01
Wargaming was not that obscure 20 years ago. At least not in terms of general acceptance. Most game stores serve as a place for the worst to be on display and that doesn't help grow the hobby except with others that fit that narrow view of outcast with nowhere to go.

Go out and make a real friend and then introduce that friend to your hobby. That is how most hobbies grow. If the goal was truly growing the hobby then there wouldn't be a focus on game stores and instead have a focus on Wal Mart. You should really take a look at how many units of HeroScape are moved each year teaching kids the basics of wargaming (movement in 3D, attack, and defense) without the need for a dedicated gameroom.

That is frankly the most stereotyped view i've heard in ages. So you saying that everyone who goes to a Games Workshop store to play the hobby is an outcast? I may have read or misinterpreted it wrong but if I haven't then that view is quite frankly wrong.

Not everyone who goes to the store is a power geek. In fact I used to go their a year or so ago (and still once in a blue moon) to play. And I can, and have, made friends elsewhere. Just because I go to a store to play doesn't mean i'm a "outcast with nowhere to go." If a person goes into a store to play the game you seem to view them a outcast but hte same view could easily be taken for a group of people who play in a garage. In fact the store if more open and public. I've met quite many good friends in my local store who do not fit into what you describe.

Going out on to the street and speaking to a random person does not mean you are going to make a 'real' friend. The friends I met in the store are real; I talk to them, have a laugh with them and do everything every else does with their 'real friends' as you put it. The gaming aspect is just something we do on top of that.

I don't see the link between the going to a Games Workshop/Local store and gaming and being an outcast :eyebrows:. As far as I can see going to a store and meeting new people is quite social, the same as meeting someone at a bar but in a different setting. I don't quite see where you get you view from.

Casper

Osbad
17-03-2009, 17:06
Online: because B&M stores charge higher prices, and don't offer me anything I value for that higher price.

Templar Ben
17-03-2009, 19:05
That is frankly the most stereotyped view i've heard in ages. So you saying that everyone who goes to a Games Workshop store to play the hobby is an outcast? I may have read or misinterpreted it wrong but if I haven't then that view is quite frankly wrong.

I didn't say everyone but there is a preponderance of people that fit that mold in the stores. It is not unlike going into Radio Shack in the early 80's. See the wargaming crowd really isn't different then the computer gaming crowd that existed prior to the big breakout into "coolness" that happened with console gaming. Sure there are some with wit, social graces, and hygiene but there are a lot that don't. If you are missing what I am talking about just look at any photo that GW publishes about a new store opening and see the faces yelling "Wagghhh!" and it should start to sink in.


Not everyone who goes to the store is a power geek. In fact I used to go their a year or so ago (and still once in a blue moon) to play. And I can, and have, made friends elsewhere. Just because I go to a store to play doesn't mean i'm a "outcast with nowhere to go." If a person goes into a store to play the game you seem to view them a outcast but hte same view could easily be taken for a group of people who play in a garage. In fact the store if more open and public. I've met quite many good friends in my local store who do not fit into what you describe.

I agree that not everyone is. I was pointing out that there is a sizable portion that is and they draw enough attention to be seen by a newcomer as that "power geek" as you put it. Bemoan stereotypes all you want but there is often some truth there. I am happy that you think stores are open and public but they image they put forth is they are a haven for the great unwashed masses. If you want I can pop into a store and take photos for you.


Going out on to the street and speaking to a random person does not mean you are going to make a 'real' friend. The friends I met in the store are real; I talk to them, have a laugh with them and do everything every else does with their 'real friends' as you put it. The gaming aspect is just something we do on top of that.

I never said that one should go out on the street and speak to a random person either. Not sure where you got that. I was saying go to the people you work with. Go talk to your neighbors. Go talk to the other dads when you go to that Spring Fling at your kids' school. Then you can let your friend know that you have a hobby and if they are interested they can play too.


I don't see the link between the going to a Games Workshop/Local store and gaming and being an outcast :eyebrows:. As far as I can see going to a store and meeting new people is quite social, the same as meeting someone at a bar but in a different setting. I don't quite see where you get you view from.

Casper

Well as I said I can show you photos. If you go into a store and 10 people are there and 5 are lacking in social graces then I can assure you the 5 will stand out. If you doubt that then grab a member of the opposite sex (preferably not a LARP/Emo/Gamer chick) and ask her what she notices when she walks in.

Then again maybe it is just because I am an older professional.

JCOLL
17-03-2009, 20:15
I go to my FLGS about once a week, sometimes every two and drop about 100-200 because it's a little bit of a drive for me. It's nice to be able to go into a store and browse the products, be a victim of impulse buying, and assosiate with all the other sane people in there. usually that's not many of them. When the store opened they offerend a 10% discount that cost $25 but lasted the entire year. It was a great deal as it pretty much payed for itself. After about June last year, though, the owner said he wasn't going to be doing this anymore and instead would have 'specials' throughout the month. Well it's now March and he hasn't once had any sort of discount. He says if I spend a lot he'll give me special deals, but it really only amounts to him trying to sell me MORE dice with a little discount on top of them. What about my minis?! Also, it's akward going in there when my fiance and I are out running errands and she is with me. The social akwardness of 99% of the staff and other gamers leaves my fiance feeling uncomfortable with all the staring and questions: "What games do you play? Oh, whatever your Boyfriend plays? So you have a boy friend? Is it serious? I like your shirt." etc.

Since then I have taken to buying things through different online retailers. Who ever has the best deals and what not. For the stuff I can't find anywhere else I do get from GW's online service and always spend enough to get free shipping as their shipping costs are terrible.

Deathklaat
17-03-2009, 20:18
i am a bit all over with my purchases

i try to get as much as i can from online retailers because 20-25% off saves me money on more stuff.

i do buy stuff from the LGS who sometimes have discounts, the problem is that i pay sales tax. (flat rate shipping> sales tax)

and then there is the occasional need to buy something from GW because some stuff i cannot find online.

i have been also trading stuff i dont use for stuff i can use, and saving money there as well.

Osbad
17-03-2009, 22:10
Because home gaming groups in a garage are very insular affairs. They dont interact with the rest of the wider community in the same way that a games store promotes, nor do they introduce people into the hobby at the same rate.

I have some rather strong evidence to refute this point as a matter of fact. At least in the UK. Here we have a grand history of independa#ent local shows, mini conventions, if you like. Here traders set up stalls, demo and participation games amd even tournaments are played and much jaw-jaw is had by all. While GW often has a presence (via independent traders selling off GW stuff, often firesale stock, at a discount), 95% of the trade is historical/non-GW stuff. And most of the players therefore MUST game at independent clubs or at home, as clearly they cant play DBM (or whatever) in a GW store.

Salute, the largest UK convention of this nature hadover 5,000 attendees last year. (www.salute.co.uk) This makes these so-called Garage-players far from insular.

I'm not so up on the scene in Oz, but from listening to Podhammer and Worlds End Radio podcasts I get the picture that there is a thriving independent tournament scene over there which again owes little or nothing to in-store gaming.

Anyone still care to suggest garage players are an ineffectual force? I contend that together they are at least as large an element as any store-based gaming. Think of all the clubs that meet in schools and scout huts up and down the land!

Bregalad
17-03-2009, 22:36
Do I understand you correctly:
The country with the biggest network of GW stores making up a considerable and well positioned share of all toy stores in the UK, with the next GW store almost never more than an hour away, is the best example you have that there is no need for GW stores to support this hobby? And you were introduced to the hobby by browsing the internet before you saw your first GW store ever in the UK? :rolleyes:

Osbad
17-03-2009, 23:00
Do I understand you correctly:
The country with the biggest network of GW stores making up a considerable and well positioned share of all toy stores in the UK, with the next GW store almost never more than an hour away, is the best example you have that there is no need for GW stores to support this hobby? And you were introduced to the hobby by browsing the internet before you saw your first GW store ever in the UK? :rolleyes:

No you do not understand me.

I was introduced to wargaming by my mates at school in 1979. Many years before GW had a store in the city. The only contact I had with GW at the time was the odd gander through WD, which at the time didn't cover WFB, let alone 40k...

Yes, I'm that old...!

And yes, even with a GW store on every high street, I would argue that there is a significant population of UK gamers whom for at best, GW is an irrelevance. Sure, you can't ignore GW's impact, everyone's heard of them, but there is a very significant number of gamers out there who's gaming owes nothing much to GW, and would carry on pretty much unhindered if GW disappeared tomorrow.

Sure the demographic of gamers would change (likely there'd be fewer "fly-by-night" gamers who spend a few quid on a grey hoard that never gets painted and gets dumped on eBay after a couple of months), but the evidence is overwhelming that the non-GW hobby in the UK is strong and thriving. 5,000 at a convention with NO significant GW input and run entirely by volunteers. That's got to mean something. Gamesday is only around 10,000 attendees. Not bad, but GW chucks tens of thousands of pounds at it, so it has to be a success. Salute has got there by gradual growth over the last 28 years.

Look at the number of indie manufacturers - Spartan Games, Hasslefree, etc., etc. They don't exist on GW's leavings and the "counts as" market: they have strong fanbases of their own. And where do those models get used - in basements, garages and living rooms up and down the land!

It may not feel that way from the sweaty confines of the average Battle Bunker, but I can assure you it is so. Of course, it may depend on one's definition of "the hobby", but there you go...

RevEv
17-03-2009, 23:23
Do I understand you correctly:
The country with the biggest network of GW stores making up a considerable and well positioned share of all toy stores in the UK, with the next GW store almost never more than an hour away, is the best example you have that there is no need for GW stores to support this hobby? And you were introduced to the hobby by browsing the internet before you saw your first GW store ever in the UK? :rolleyes:

Not entirely correct - there are certain parts where GW have not, yet, spread. I once lived in such a place with only a not so FLGS to supply my needs and Bristol, Bath, Poole, Bournemouth and Exeter all over an hour and a half away.

I survived with GW MO.

Amnar
18-03-2009, 00:55
I buy at the FLGS because if I don't support them, I won't have a place to play. I was a lot more price sensitive when I was younger, now that I earn a decent amount the price is irrelevant to me. I paint so slowly that there's now way I can spend too much on the hobby in any given year...

Bregalad
18-03-2009, 02:37
I was introduced to wargaming by my mates at school in 1979. Many years before GW had a store in the city. The only contact I had with GW at the time was the odd gander through WD, which at the time didn't cover WFB, let alone 40k...
So another attempt to understand you:
Back in 1979, your friends learned about GW via internet browsing and never entered a GW store but ordered everything in internet stores ... in 1979, right?:rolleyes:


And yes, even with a GW store on every high street, I would argue that there is a significant population of UK gamers whom for at best, GW is an irrelevance. Sure, you can't ignore GW's impact, everyone's heard of them, but there is a very significant number of gamers out there who's gaming owes nothing much to GW, and would carry on pretty much unhindered if GW disappeared tomorrow.
Sounds to me like someone raised in Detroit and pretending that he invented cars independently. Ever considered the fact that outside UK with its broad GW store presence in high streets, GW is NOT known by everyone, not even in Germany with a still large network of stores?


Look at the number of indie manufacturers - Spartan Games, Hasslefree, etc., etc. They don't exist on GW's leavings and the "counts as" market: they have strong fanbases of their own. And where do those models get used - in basements, garages and living rooms up and down the land!
Yes, and when Ultra Forge manages to sell 30 worldwide, they are sold out for a month. Ever considered, that GW might sell more than 30 Space Marine Tactical Troops worldwide in a month? Or put the other way: How much would a Baneblade cost, if the development and the plastic molds (cost over 100.000 pounds) had to be payed by a customer base of 60 people.


Not entirely correct - there are certain parts where GW have not, yet, spread. I once lived in such a place with only a not so FLGS to supply my needs and Bristol, Bath, Poole, Bournemouth and Exeter all over an hour and a half away.
Oh wow, 1 1/2 hours, that is tough. I guess some people in USA and Australia are REALLY feeling with you now!;)

ehlijen
18-03-2009, 03:08
Ever wondered why GW is about the biggest supplier of wargaming toy soldiers? Yes, there are plenty of wargaming companies, but very few have taken the step of trying to make their way into the mainstream.

GW has chosen to build highly visible stores so they can say to people: "You know about wargaming? No? Have a look and try it. It's fun!" And that choice is what made them as big as they are today. Not everyone stuck with GW, some moved on to others after learning about wargaming that way. I'm not aware of any other wargaming company attempting to do anything like that and as a result, none of them are as well known and few are is big as GW. If GW were to suddenly give up on that strategy, sooner or later, wargaming in general would loose most to the influx of new players that GWs highly visible presence brings not to just them but wargaming in general.

Sure wargaming would survive, but with less people and less companies making less products.

Templar Ben
18-03-2009, 03:21
Nothing about first mover advantage in building a monopoly in the UK and using that position to keep failing stores open for years to establish such a position in other countries.

Would we have car manufacturers without Ford or Mercedes? Would we still have laundry detergent without Procter and Gamble? Would we still have operating systems without Microsoft?

Yeah, I guess you are right. 8)

The point that Paul was making earlier that having 100 players that don't really care is not as good for long term viability as 10 people that do.

Nephilim of Sin
18-03-2009, 03:35
Oh wow, 1 1/2 hours, that is tough. I guess some people in USA and Australia are REALLY feeling with you now!;)

:D

Six hours, again, to a GW store. At least in Ohio I had real LGS (well, only two 'real' stores in Columbus, OH), but I must say, when I lived in Washington State many moons ago, I was more impressed with the WotC store than the GW one, to the point where I actually bought all of my stuff from the WotC store.

One thing that the WotC store had going for it was in Seattle they had their own 'headquarters' akin to Warhammer World, but for Magic: The Gathering. Except they sold GW stuff, had a slew of GW and Magic tables, a full arcade, and a warroom style computer set-up. Too bad it closed down, because it was amazing, and I think the closest any of us in the states will get to Warhammer World. That being said, I have not made the six hour trek to Memphis, so I would be happy for someone to prove me wrong.

Crazy Harborc
18-03-2009, 04:15
I do understand that GW has lowered and are changed it's shipping and handling charges and policies. At the same time based on what I read from around the world (on Warseer and elsewhere)....GW is slowly pulling products off the shelves and turning those products into "direct only" products. GW has restricted the products that indies are "allowed to stock on their(those indie's) shelves".

I was an indie store owner AND I used to buy some of GW's slower moving products (for my store and my own use) Now....more and more GW products are GW mailorder/online only PLUS extra shipping and handling on top of what IS built into the suggested list/retail prices.

GW said we had to pay a little extra in part to finance all the stores GW planned to open. Well, we got our store.....for 5 years. It's closed, now. The prices go back down....I don't THINK so.:rolleyes:

Templar Ben
18-03-2009, 04:23
Memphis isn't worth the trip. There are 12 empty tables you can play on but unless you are in Memphis for something else don't bother.

RevEv
18-03-2009, 09:39
The problem about threads that compare distances to stores is that, as Warseer is an international site, we all have different experiences of the availability of GW stores and GW stockists.

This became apparent to me last year on a trip to Canada. From where I was based the nearest GW store was 3 hours away, and the nearest FLGS was 40 minutes. In the UK that would be unthinkable. A 3 hour drive would get me to WHW. With the nearest GW store only 15 minutes away that would be ridiculous. This will, obviously, affect the buying habits of different gamers. If I were living in Canada (or Australia, or the US, or Europe) I would use a FLGS and MO/internet more than GW stores. Also I would not have the rapport that I have with the staff in my local GW store as I would not be in every week.

If we recognise the difficulties that people have in getting to GW stores, and the annoyance they have in being treated as Noobs when they are vets because they are not known by the staff, then we can also recognise the difference in buying habits.

It would be an interesting statistical analysis to compare geographical location to buying habits.

Korras
18-03-2009, 09:45
I buy from various places: GW online if I want some specific stuff, some small things (paint, for example), or collectors stuff. for larger orders, I go to online discounters. when I am in a GW, I usually buy something there, usually to have something to assemble that day.

do I hurt FLGS with my habits? no, because there is none nearby me. the nearest store is GW itself, and even that is an hour and a half away in total. so, I end up buying most online.

Fenrir
18-03-2009, 11:06
Also, it's akward going in there when my fiance and I are out running errands and she is with me. The social akwardness of 99% of the staff and other gamers leaves my fiance feeling uncomfortable with all the staring and questions: "What games do you play? Oh, whatever your Boyfriend plays? So you have a boy friend? Is it serious? I like your shirt." etc.


Agree with this 100%. We could feel the eyes on my wife whenever I popped into the shop for something, and it made her feel really uncomfortable. Too many sweaty palmed stinkards who have never seen a Japanese woman outside of manga - def another reason for my not going into stores any more, if not the main one.

Not having to deal with the swarms of odious little turds when buying on the web is much easier. Dodging the same group of smug spotfests online isn't quite as easy though (see some of the above posts for evidence of these sorts)

Korras
18-03-2009, 11:17
I know how that goes, yeah. a good friend of mine plays fantasy, and she's quite a good painter. she's not bad-looking, either. the other day, we were in a GW store, spending the day. eventually, an older guy comes in, starts talking to the redshirt about various wargames things, and all of the sudden, he looks at her, and says: "you shouldn't be here. you're too hot to play wargames. hot girls don't play."

her, the redshirts, and my reaction: "what the..?"
her boyfriends reaction: a big smirk.

the redshirt proceeded to gently navigate him towards the exit. we all had a good laugh afterwards, and she wasn't feeling to awkward about it, but I can imagine some women not being quite happy with being treated like that.

Desert Rain
18-03-2009, 11:26
I buy around 98% of my stuff in stores. The rest is from varoius Swedish online stores that have GW products.

Netherghoul
18-03-2009, 12:01
I know how that goes, yeah. a good friend of mine plays fantasy, and she's quite a good painter. she's not bad-looking, either. the other day, we were in a GW store, spending the day. eventually, an older guy comes in, starts talking to the redshirt about various wargames things, and all of the sudden, he looks at her, and says: "you shouldn't be here. you're too hot to play wargames. hot girls don't play."

her, the redshirts, and my reaction: "what the..?"
her boyfriends reaction: a big smirk.

the redshirt proceeded to gently navigate him towards the exit. we all had a good laugh afterwards, and she wasn't feeling to awkward about it, but I can imagine some women not being quite happy with being treated like that.


this and many other things are the reason why I dont even come close near a GW store.

Netherghoul
18-03-2009, 12:03
So are you saying you want wargaming to slide back into obscurity so that you're spared having to share your hobby with those you basically consider unworthy?

er yeah I can find myself into this category, back to the era of wargaming:D
dont want to be around the little slimey buggers that lurk in GW stores.

Fenrir
18-03-2009, 12:12
this and many other things are the reason why I dont even come close near a GW store.


Quite. We never had anything said, but the looks were enough!

doombanner
27-03-2009, 21:39
Online stores, eBay and only online stores and eBay. I feel bad for saying that, but given GW's attitude toward older customers over the years, I feel it's a classic case of "you get what you give."

When you add it up, you'll likely spend thousands on this hobby (or at least you will if you're anything like me :D ) so saving 20-30% puts $200 or $300 back in your pocket. Even more if you use online auction sites like eBay.

It's a no-brainer really.

I used to buy magazines from my local stores, just to help them out, until GW raised the price of WD to $9 per issue. Outrageous. Now I just buy Knights of the Dinner Table and No Quarter, along with paints and brushes.

It sucks, but what can you do?

~Doom Banner

Nuada
27-03-2009, 22:22
er yeah I can find myself into this category, back to the era of wargaming:D
dont want to be around the little slimey buggers that lurk in GW stores.

Got to agree with you there.
I haven't been in a GW store since around early 90's. I used to like the old style GW staff that didn't try and sell you everything in the store (dunno if they're still like that)