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Desalbert
15-03-2009, 01:30
Hey everyone, I'm wondering whether or not, an Imperial Guard colour scheme that is not nessecarily Camoflage would be alright. I'm thinking, instead, of doing something more... ceremonial.. but maybe subdued.

First, I thought of a roman-esque, red with Golds and/or yellows, but I'm leaning away from that now.

Now,
I'm thinking more of a Codex Grey or Fortress Grey main, with some overt red daubings to add colour. So, not that I want this image, because it's not what I'm going for, but, think Nazi Soldier with Grey coat, and the bright red arm band. Again, that's not my intention, but I do plan to take a grey base to cadian models, and spruce it up with overt red, or, maybe to avoid the Nazi link, with, a royal blue or stand-out purple.

So I have a few questions that derive from this: 1) Is it okay to avoid Camo-combos with an Imperial force? 2) What grey would be best to achieve the kind of look I want, Fortress, Codex, or something else? 3) Should red be the standout colour, or should it be something else, in your estimation?

and 4) As you imagine it, is the scheme appealing at all?

[[ ALTERNATIVELY I was thinking about doing a desert camo Cadian force if my first idea isn't likely. Something similar to a Western army Iraq-war get up-- but with differences. Any thoughts there at all? ]]

Thanks guys
-Des

Metaphorazine
15-03-2009, 01:36
So I have a few questions that derive from this: 1) Is it okay to avoid Camo-combos with an Imperial force? 2) What grey would be best to achieve the kind of look I want, Fortress, Codex, or something else? 3) Should red be the standout colour, or should it be something else, in your estimation?

and 4) As you imagine it, is the scheme appealing at all?

[[ ALTERNATIVELY I was thinking about doing a desert camo Cadian force if my first idea isn't likely. Something similar to a Western army Iraq-war get up-- but with differences. Any thoughts there at all? ]]

1) Of course it is
2) No idea, the look you want's in your head, and I havn't got my drill handy.
3) See two. Red and grey does work on a ceremonial level though, but personally I'd work from Mordian Blue up to a fairly bright blue, and see how that looks. I think it'd come out ok. You should paint some test models with different greys and different accent colours.
4) See three, then one. :)

B) If that's what you want, go for it. Personally I think that it's way too snore-worthy.

Desalbert
15-03-2009, 01:38
Thanks for your thoughts, I know its a pretty subjective question :)

I do agree on the Desert camo, and see how it could be boring-- so, we'll see.

Again, thanks!

Any other thoughts would be tremendous :)

Legionary
15-03-2009, 01:38
1) Is it okay to avoid Camo-combos with an Imperial force?
Absolutely! Some regiments use camo, others don't. Think Praetorians in their red jackets and colonial helments, or the Mordian Iron Guard wearing bright dress uniform into battle.

2) What grey would be best to achieve the kind of look I want, Fortress, Codex, or something else?
I'd go for the darker shade of the two, since sometimes light grey can look white.

3) Should red be the standout colour, or should it be something else, in your estimation? and 4) As you imagine it, is the scheme appealing at all?
Red would work well, sounds like it'll be a very striking army.

T_55
15-03-2009, 01:48
Do you, perhaps an example of the grey or red your trying to achieve?

In my opinion such a dark grey/red combination could look great on the tanks. For the infantry i'd introduce a third color. Metaphorazine suggested blue, which i like. A deep dark royal blue with a clean grey could work well. Maybe add some red to tie it in with vehicles if you go for the red, but that would be very hard to make stand out as i believe red and blue is one of those no-no combos.

I'd be looking for some way to capture this in the miniatures though, think of some conversions.

Imperius
15-03-2009, 01:57
This is a paint heavy scheme, but if you like the Nazi Soldier look then I will list some good paints.

Basecoat, Fortress Grey/Codex. Depends whether or not you want dark or light.
Arm band, Mechrite Red with a Highlight of Blood Red
Guns, Chaos Black, Boltgun Metal details, Drybrushed Chainmail on details.

And a Nazi Soldier look would go very very well with or without camo. The WWII Style tanks that GW made to look 'primitive-futuristic' are excellent for historic armies.

Lord Cook
15-03-2009, 02:06
1) Is it okay to avoid Camo-combos with an Imperial force?

Of course. Imperial Guard uniforms come in all different forms. Remember the Cadian 8th is one of the most famous regiments and used as the Guard poster boys, and they certainly aren't wearing camouflage.


2) What grey would be best to achieve the kind of look I want, Fortress, Codex, or something else?

Fortress Grey is very light, a lot like concrete. Personally I prefer Codex Grey, but that's really down to personal taste. That said, I think Codex would contrast better with the brighter colours you talked about.


3) Should red be the standout colour, or should it be something else, in your estimation?

The Nazis don't have a monopoly on colours. As J.K.Rowling has said, fear of a name only increases fear of the thing itself. Paint your troops however you like, and while I wouldn't recommend using any swastikas, I heartily encourage you to use any colours you like. Besides, while the Wehrmacht generally wore dark grey, the Nazis themselves are far more famous for wearing brown.


4) As you imagine it, is the scheme appealing at all?

Dress colours, if done well, can look excellent. A test model would be useful to give us an idea of exactly what you're thinking about.


Something similar to a Western army Iraq-war get up-- but with differences.

I've seen this done and it works very well, but I get the impression you're more interested in the first idea anyway.

Desalbert
15-03-2009, 02:06
Hey guys, thanks for all the pointers thus far, I do have to admit that to a certain level they are inspired by the Nazi Wermacht soldier look of the 1940s, (does that make me evil? :O) and so, they will most likely be predominantly grey, with little additions of brighter reds as accents and possibly clothing, where it's possible, and not too overly done.

And yes, this means I'll probably do my officers in a black get up of some kind, and I may choose to run officers as mordian models admist cadian squads, just because of that look. But no, I won't be doing arm bands, or, german coats and helmets. It's just, inspired by, but not replicant of it, you see.

Thanks for the painting tips, those will be the first colours I use.

EDIT: fantastic quote Lord Cook, and too true

Metaphorazine
15-03-2009, 05:32
There's plenty of grey based non-camoed cadians on coolminiornot (I take it you're going to be working with cadians?)

Grey and Blue officer with Red accents (http://www.coolminiornot.com/216111)
And his squad (http://www.coolminiornot.com/216110)
Grey on Grey standard bearer (http://www.coolminiornot.com/213548)
Grey on Brown officer (http://www.coolminiornot.com/212063)
Camo, but looks great. Love those pig iron heads (http://www.coolminiornot.com/211114)
Aqua blue on Grey, and a fantastic diorama (http://www.coolminiornot.com/206502)
Grey on Red squad (http://www.coolminiornot.com/196158)
Blue on Grey trooper (http://www.coolminiornot.com/174858)

Hope these give you some inspiration!

...

Damn, now I want to get a box of Cadians. :( *looks at his painting table of Orks, that have been there for 4 years... Just one box maybe? Or maybe eBay a single model...?*

Edit:
Another officer with grey, blue and red, looks nice (http://www.coolminiornot.com/61325)
White on Grey camo, surprisingly effective, camo could be skipped in the scheme (http://www.coolminiornot.com/67520)
Grey grey grey grey grey, looks nice & mean (http://www.coolminiornot.com/67579)
Grey officer with bling and Red trim (http://www.coolminiornot.com/71488)

Desalbert
15-03-2009, 05:44
Thank you very much, Metaphorazine, these hit on a lot of things that are interesting, and they are certainly inspiring! :D

I'm pleased to see the different takes on grey and red, and greys and blues and all of that! Edit: What a Fantastic Diorama indeed! The humanity of it is what gets me. The...uh.. the notion that even in the grim darkness of the far future, a battle-torn guardsman can shoot the breeze or wax-philosophic with another. Perfect. :)

...

If I may describe, for my own, I'll be looking to take the dark grey (anyone know what colour paint that is?) of the grey-on-grey flag barer, for the majority of armour and clothing while highlighting insignias, shin cuffs, and some parts of the armour with the red.

Generally, I do see them as 92-95% dark grey, with red highlights and black or dark grey las guns etc.

Anyway, certainly Wermacht inspired.

In fact, let me ask: if anyone here was to do a Wermacht inspired painting of a cadian how would YOU do it? I'd love to know!

pwrgmrguard
15-03-2009, 05:52
I was going to suggest the Mordian Iron Guard as an example, but then i realized my own Steel Legions do not use Camo. Based in Skull White, with bleached bone overcoats and scorched brown leather...

Also my cadians do not use Camo, Armor is catachan green and cloth is bleached bone, scorched brown leather over a skull white base.

The Catachans i have are understandably mostly Bleached bone, having little or no armor and only cloth/leather uniforms.

I decided i liked the look of bleached bone/catachan green in noncamo uniforms and rolled with it. Non camo definately can work.

Fortress Grey armor with Bleached bone cloth i have found looks nice, Fortress grey and catachan green looks nice as well. Fortress Gray and Bubonic brown would probably work as well.

Metaphorazine
15-03-2009, 05:54
I don't know about Wehrmacht, my focus on past wars is on the Australian troops. :) But for a dark grey with red spot colours, I'd probably mix 50/50 Adeptus Battlegrey with Chaos Black, wash that with whatever the black wash is called, then on the right shoulder pad layer Macharius solar orange, then blood red, then edge highlight with 50/50 blood red/macharius or blood red/bleached bone. Might take some tinkering to find what works.

Basically though, to do that I'd be looking at a dark almost black for the majority of the figure, then having a bright splashy red for one shoulder pad, and paint the gun in standard boltgun metal for the metal bits and chaos black for the housing. Or maybe a lighter grey for the housing, to bring focus to the weapon. YMMV.

Is there one of those flash based painter tools for cadians? I know I've seen them for marines...

Lord Cook
15-03-2009, 05:57
Just realised I have some potentially useful pictures as well. I know some of them have camo but I'm thinking more in terms of colours...

54367 54368


54370 54371


54369

T_55
15-03-2009, 08:02
I've got another example.

Explodingboy
15-03-2009, 08:46
No need to use camo.

my guard army (Cadian) wear brown fatigues with Catchan green armor, with added cloaks also in Catchan green.

htj
15-03-2009, 09:16
My Guard wear black fatigues with Codex Grey armour. I indicate their platoon by coloured pips on their shoulderpads. It looks quite good to me, but I'm not exactly a superb painter.

Desalbert
15-03-2009, 09:22
Thanks for all of the support guys! I really appreciate all of the examples, and personal annecdotes, it really helps me understand where I want to go, in relation to where others are. :)

I'll be sure to post some of my results on a few test models, to this thread when they are done. However, I'll say right now, that I'm not a good painter at all. My hands are naturally too shakey and my fine motor skills are below average and leaning towards terrible. Heh, that said, why post a painting question then? you may ask. Well, simply because, in my range of skill, I still want to follow through with my visions; they just won't finish near as good as others',for those that are used to seeing grade-A work :)

C'est la vie.

Any other thoughts would be welcome; and examples too :D

Atoom
15-03-2009, 09:49
My mordians are wearing grey and red uniforms - You can see a pic here:
http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182371&page=4

Squiggle
15-03-2009, 10:12
I'm painting Vostroyans in white great coats, red carapace armour and black shakos. I'll post up a pic when I have a minute.

Sam skywalker
15-03-2009, 12:11
My Guard have tentacle pink armour and purple with lots of black ink robes...

Metaphorazine
15-03-2009, 12:35
However, I'll say right now, that I'm not a good painter at all. My hands are naturally too shakey and my fine motor skills are below average and leaning towards terrible.

Well that's where washes are your friend. :D I recently did a model with a black wash over adeptus battlegrey, comes out a decent mid-dark grey with no highlighting needed, very simple. I was going for more of a black look, but I'm still happy with the result. :D

505
15-03-2009, 13:33
I use shadow grey and chaos black.

looks nice not so much dress uniformish as night fighterish

shadow grey for all cloth and black for all the armored bits. you need to pick a different color for the lasguns to make them stnad out a crisp bone white might make them look as if they are on parade

Bunnahabhain
15-03-2009, 13:46
Personally, I don't like the look of most of the camo schemes I've seen done for guardsmen.
To get them to look right, given the scale clash between the camo pattern and the model takes a large amount of skill, patience and effort.

If you want to go with a wehrmact inspired scheme, then that gives you alot of variation, as their fabric tended to vary, especially later in thehe war when supplies were short. Any shade of grey,blue grey, darker greens, and browns were all used. I appreciate this might not help you much in deciding.
They were also no worse than the Red Army, or anybody else on the Eastern front. The SS behind them were somewhat nastier than Stalins NKVD, but it really is just different shades of black, there was no 'Good guy' there, just a winner.

rickyard
15-03-2009, 13:59
I think that codex grey used with fortress grey lights works nice, If you want it a little darker or lighter simply use white or black coating. Red can be great with grey but, Have you thought about orange? you can try fiery orange, if you don't want them to look nazi but want contrast. Anyway I wouldn't mind about adding many colours because details are just excuse enough to bring life to the figure, think about flamers or any other heavy weapon as an opportunity to change the boring scheme. I think three different colours in the same mini is too much colours, and if you look at it more than 15 inches long it may look blurry (puzzle?).

rickyard
15-03-2009, 14:14
An example of using details as an excuse to use brighter colours. It is fortress grey as lights in the armour and red mixed with fiery orange. The black pants add contrast too.

aad
15-03-2009, 15:37
i have my superheavy group in dark tin bitz(tinbitz made darker with a chaosblack) to get an antique bronze look.:)