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bocaj
16-03-2009, 20:04
For my birthday i'm gonna get a greater daemon but can't decide on which to get, either a Lord of Change or a Great Unclean One.

Lord of Change
Pros
Can shoot
Quick
Power weapon
3+ invulnerble save

Cons
Expensive in points

Great Unclean One
Pros
Cheap in points
Wounds on a 2+
WS 6
4 attacks
Feel no Pain

Cons
Slow and purposeful
5 wounds

so which one should I get.

x-esiv-4c
16-03-2009, 20:09
They both count as monsterous creatures.
The LoC is too high in points for his returns. Then again i'm a Nurglfile so don't take my opinion as unbiased.

captain malachi
16-03-2009, 20:12
They are very different models with incredibly different roles on the battle field. It really depends on what you want from your HQ and the rest of your army.

However, as a daemon player let me tell you that you will probably get more greater daemons at some point, so it doesn't matter :P

Also, the other two greater daemons are often considered better anyway, just food for thought.

Perfect Organism
16-03-2009, 20:59
I don't have the Daemon codex, but just in general terms:

A slow moving unit with no ranged attacks is going to have a hard time engaging the enemy, unless you use it to defend a position which isn't a good way to use an expensive, non-scoring, monstrous creature.

In order to really get the most value out of monstrous creatures, you need them to be mobile enough to get into contact with tanks and high value infantry so they can kill plenty of stuff in close combat or carry enough firepower that they can kill a whole bunch of stuff at a decent range. Otherwise a smart enemy will simply avoid engaging the creature, making it useless.

Since the GUO is even slower than normal infantry and doesn't seem to carry any ranged weapons, I wouldn't bother with it unless you can give it an incredibly powerful psi-power or something which actually makes it a threat to anything not within 12". It simply isn't going to engage the enemy unless they are very stupid or you are both lucky and skilled.

Anyway, the Lord of Change has a much better model.

captain malachi
16-03-2009, 21:04
Just for the record, the idea of a the GUO is to be an enormous bullet magnet, the guy is cheap as chips and doesn't need to do a lot of damage to be worth it.

Vedar
16-03-2009, 21:26
They are all good and all bad, which is probably good as it is somewhat balanced.

Unclean one. Pros-Tough to kill and cheap, con- slow. Drop him close to where you need him as he won't be getting to the other side of the board.

Lord or Change- Pros-Shooty in an assualty army, wings. Cons-pricey, weakest of all daemons in CC. His shooting will not make or break a game most of the time and getting tied up in CC is not where he want to be most of the time.

Bloodthirster-Pros-Best CC deamon, Wings, 3+ armor. Cons, Most expensive.

Keeper of Secrets - Good in CC, fleet. Cons, 3rd slowest GD, can get pricey if you give him alot of bells and whistles.

In short to answer your question.

Pick the GUO if you need a daemon with some staying power, CC ability and on the cheaper side.

Pick the Lord of Change if you need to boost your shooting and want to add some flexability and don't mind the point cost or the fact you might not make his points back.

Ganymene
16-03-2009, 23:50
For my birthday i'm gonna get a greater daemon but can't decide on which to get, either a Lord of Change or a Great Unclean One.

Lord of Change
Pros
Can shoot 3 weapons at different targets
Quick
Power weapon
3+ invulnerble save

Cons
Expensive in points

Great Unclean One
Pros
Cheap in points
Wounds on a 2+ and ignores armor saves with re-rolls against <T7
WS 6
4 attacks
Feel no Pain
5 wounds

Cons
Slow and purposeful
5 wounds

so which one should I get.

Fixed

It will also depend on what else is in your army.


They play very different roles on the battlefield. The Lord of Change is a much better support demon, whereas the Unclean One is very hard to kill, and although slow will eat a lot of firepower before he goes down.

They are both good in combat, but the Unclean One will hit a lot harder than the Lord of Change (although, the other two greater demons are better in combat than these two).

What does the rest of your army look like?

Bregalad
17-03-2009, 03:18
Have a look at non-GW alternatives, e.g. by Ultraforge:
http://www.ultraforgeminiatures.com/index.html (Vrok my current favorite).

Ganymene
17-03-2009, 03:25
Those Ultraforge demons are very nice. I think they are much better than the current GW metal models (although I do like the Lord of Change), and they bridge a gap between the GW models and the FW models in terms of size and price.

Ironmonger
17-03-2009, 07:57
I totally agree (although, unlike most on here, I like the sculpts for both the Lord of Pestilence and Mamon about equally; same for each GUO). As others have said here, do you want something that can move and shoots and costs an arm and a leg points-wise, or something that is cheaper, can soak up HUGE amounts of damage, but may have trouble getting where you want him?

Personally, I'd go with the GUO, liking him better as both a model and as my playing style. Just my 2 pence.

TheOverlord
17-03-2009, 08:50
Buy both and together make them the Great Lord of Unclean Change...One!

Then you can play them both whenever you want and you'd only need to paint it once!

Jellicoe
17-03-2009, 09:34
LoC is meant to be a pig to put together so get the GUO

ToXiK
17-03-2009, 11:22
i would go GUO its a sweet model and hard to kill

Brucopeloso
17-03-2009, 11:47
It really depnds on the rest of your army and your playstyle.

What is your army good at?
Do you need firepower?
Do you need mobility?
Do you need staying power?

The answer to this questions will give you a big hint.

volair
17-03-2009, 13:50
It is better to get more plague bearers than to get an unclean one. If you want a greater daemon I would get a bloodthirster. He has the speed and the strength to destroy vehicles, thereby alleviating a big, general weakness of daemons to a degree, and with WS10 and a 3+ save he has real staying power in close combat.

bocaj
17-03-2009, 18:45
My army sofar:

1 Skulltaker
10 Bloodletters
10 Daemonetts
1 Blood crusher
3 Flamers of Tzneech
1 Soulgrinder

captain malachi
17-03-2009, 19:24
I'd go with the GUO in your case, you have enough shooting for the points level with the flamers and the 'grinder, and you don't really have anything survivable.

dal9ll
17-03-2009, 19:24
Why cant you run both?

My faves builds for them are:

GUO: Cloud of Flies and Breath of Chaos = 195 pts.

LoC: Master of Sorcery and Breath of Chaos = 290 pts.

Id also like to note, regarding Ganymene's comment, LoC's can only shoot twice unless you give them Mast of Sorcery

Azhrarn
17-03-2009, 20:00
Id also like to note, regarding Ganymene's comment, LoC's can only shoot twice unless you give them Master of Sorcery

And you'll also need "We Are Legion" if you want to shoot at different targets.

bocaj
19-03-2009, 22:58
If i get the lord of change i will give it master of sorcery and boon of mutation.
If i get the great unclean one i will give him nothing but give the rest of my army more upgrades.

ihockert
20-03-2009, 00:39
Personally, I think the Great Unclean One is the best of the greater daemons. All of the other ones are too fragile for their points. It is not hard to torrent down any of the other Greater Daemons. However, most armies will need to use hardcore AT weapons or dead killy CC troops to deal with a Great Unclean One. Not to mention you can put two GUOs on the table for a mere 330 points (if you only give them the grenade upgrade, which is all they really need).