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Max_Killfactor
17-03-2009, 14:13
I was curious who the best good and evil fighters are. I've always been a fan of tooling up lord characters to duel other characters and I think there could be some epic showdowns in WotR.

I'm guessing the best good fighters would be something like:

Elrond
Gil Gilad
Aragorn
Gimli
Pippin

For the evil side (other than Sauron... who I'm sure is a beast):

Witch King
Dark Marshal
Khamul
Suladan

Am I right? Can any of the evil characters hold their own with the likes of Elrond or Aragorn in combat? I know GW has their stats online, but I never played any of the LotR games... so those stats don't mean much to me.

Thanks for any answers.

vampires are cool!
17-03-2009, 14:23
I'm going with Lurtz at the moment - he's a very cheap way of injecting lots of might and damage into a combat. One on one he's fairly middle ground, but the force i'm tailering up will be centered on him and his uruk hai scouts.

The good side have a number of nice options; Glorfindel is unreasonably sick. I forget exactly but he reduces the enemies fight value and has orc bane to boot. Add that to a fight value of 7 and your watching enemy heads roll.

The evil side have Gulvhar (spl?) who makes attacks before and after the enemy. The troll chieftans are good - nice and fighty and very hard to kill.

The main strength of the evil side is their accessability to large monsters - balrog and the Mumak to name a few. Their characters are slightly sub par compared to Good heroes but the number of big gribblies they can feild really makes up for that.

thorgrim
17-03-2009, 14:32
The best fighters on the good side are elendil and Gil galad. Both have the maximum fight (10) and have a weapon that increases the chances to wound. I'd say gil galad is the most powerful good guy though besause he also has 6(!) points of might.

Bad guys are sauron or any other of the monsters (Trools, Giants, Shelob, Guluvhar, Mumak).

Max_Killfactor
17-03-2009, 14:51
Can the named ringwraiths hold their own with Aragorn and some of the more powerful elves? On GW's site the Dark Marshall is described as being able to hang with Aragorn in combat. Is this true, or is it madness?

I feel like a total noob asking these questions. WotR makes me wish I had played some of the LotR games over the past few years. I like most of the armies, but have no idea what their strengths are so this is a really tricky decision. I like to plan ahead and until the rulebook comes out, Warseer is the best place for me to find answers.

Thanks for the replies, hopefully it's not too tedious answering these.

Rirekon
17-03-2009, 15:05
If I remember right from my glance at the WotR book the Wraiths all have the same profile with the exception of their specific abilities.
I believe this is different in SBG?

vodrake
17-03-2009, 15:14
gilgalad is the best hero for the good, not sure for evil, not really looked at the epic hero's that much.

lotrchampion
17-03-2009, 16:15
Gondor & Arnor
Strengths: Good all-rounders. Decent heroes, both minor and Epic, decent Ranged and Combat formations. Large selection of both Infantry and Cavalry, and of course, Siege Weapons.

Weaknesses: Little in the way of Magic or Monsters.

Elves
Strengths: Brilliant infantry, amazing heroes, great shooting, and strong magic. Also now with cavalry!

Weaknesses: Points heavy in the case of High Elves, resulting in miniscule armies, or crap defence for Wood Elves. However, Wood Elves do have Enchnated Cloaks which means they can't be shot at from over 12" away.

Dwarves
Strengths: High Strength, high Defence. Effectively like being beaten over the head with a tin can. The heroes are even more so.

Weaknesses: No magic, little ranged weaponry. Very low manuvorability. Best place for these guys is getting stuck into the action, but it'll take a while to get there.

Rohan
Strengths: Cavalry. Cavalry is amazing in WotR, and the Rohirrim truly are the Horse Lords. Also a good selection of solid heroes, all with some cool abilities. The Infantry isn't too bad either.

Weaknesses: Not many. If you field an all-Cav army, you will be outnumbered, and if you field all Infantry, you'll be outclassed. Best to go for a balance, weighted more towards Cav. Also no magic.

Forgotten Kingdoms
Not a list in their own right, just allies. Using FK, you can ammend a lot of weaknesses-for example, if you need magic, throw in Gandalf, Saruman, or even The White Coucil. Need a monster to take out Cav? Take an Ent. Want something manuvorable that can act as bait without being too vulnerable? Great Eagle. Something for everyone here.


Evil review coming a little later on. Will also cover heroes for each faction. Hope this is of some help to those unsure about which faction to take in WotR.

ThrowN
17-03-2009, 16:40
Thats a great summary, lotrchampion, keep it comin'!

Max_Killfactor
17-03-2009, 16:50
Gondor & Arnor
Strengths: Good all-rounders. Decent heroes, both minor and Epic, decent Ranged and Combat formations. Large selection of both Infantry and Cavalry, and of course, Siege Weapons.

Weaknesses: Little in the way of Magic or Monsters.

Elves
Strengths: Brilliant infantry, amazing heroes, great shooting, and strong magic. Also now with cavalry!

Weaknesses: Points heavy in the case of High Elves, resulting in miniscule armies, or crap defence for Wood Elves. However, Wood Elves do have Enchnated Cloaks which means they can't be shot at from over 12" away.

Dwarves
Strengths: High Strength, high Defence. Effectively like being beaten over the head with a tin can. The heroes are even more so.

Weaknesses: No magic, little ranged weaponry. Very low manuvorability. Best place for these guys is getting stuck into the action, but it'll take a while to get there.

Rohan
Strengths: Cavalry. Cavalry is amazing in WotR, and the Rohirrim truly are the Horse Lords. Also a good selection of solid heroes, all with some cool abilities. The Infantry isn't too bad either.

Weaknesses: Not many. If you field an all-Cav army, you will be outnumbered, and if you field all Infantry, you'll be outclassed. Best to go for a balance, weighted more towards Cav. Also no magic.

Forgotten Kingdoms
Not a list in their own right, just allies. Using FK, you can ammend a lot of weaknesses-for example, if you need magic, throw in Gandalf, Saruman, or even The White Coucil. Need a monster to take out Cav? Take an Ent. Want something manuvorable that can act as bait without being too vulnerable? Great Eagle. Something for everyone here.


Evil review coming a little later on. Will also cover heroes for each faction. Hope this is of some help to those unsure about which faction to take in WotR.

Extremely helpful. Something like this should be stickied imo because I think there will be a decent amount of new/curious players wondering how the armies play.

I'm looking foward to the evil summary.

Marauder
17-03-2009, 16:52
The ringwraiths aren't particularly good in duels. The witchking is the best of the lot because he has more might and one more Fv than the others. Keep in mind the duel mechanics are quite a bit different than the others - and really it comes down to your Fv, some luck and might. If you have a good spell you can snag a hero with in your movement phase than it can help.

The big monster heroes will all be decent in a fight because they have high fight values.

Some of the good characters have (Aragorn, Boromir and Eowyn) have ways to get more dice during a duel.

Tancred II von Quenelles
17-03-2009, 20:38
what about dol-amroth knights-aren t they the best armoured cavalry? Hos strong is Imrahil?

Nickskills
17-03-2009, 20:44
A question I have- can a character join a allied unit? I really want to use the Witch king on horse model coming out on the 4th, and I want to put him in a unit of Morgul Knights.

Also, how good are Morgul Knights? Am I going to have a hard time coming up with enough points to treat them as allies?

Rirekon
17-03-2009, 23:59
Are Mogul Knights not in the Mordor list? Seems a bit daft given they are described as Knights of Mordor...

lotrchampion
18-03-2009, 00:05
OK, here goes with Evil. I agree some compilation of such details would be useful, but the Mods seem to have all but abandoned the LotR forum...

Anyway, lets go!

Mordor
Strengths: Massive variety of troops, with both horde and elites. Monsters and very capable magic casters as well.

Weaknesses: Lack of strong combat heroes, general low Courage.

Isengard
Strengths: Great infantry, decent cavalry and some awesome heroes.

Weaknesses: Erm...not many. More costly than your standard bod, and the points do rack up, so you can be easily outnumbered in some situations.

Misty Mountains
Strengths: Hordes N Monsters! Great horde troops, some reasonable low cost heroes, and a load of nasty monsters.

Weaknesses: Lack of real elites, and a lack of decent RnF heroes. Plis low Courage.

Fallen Kingdoms
Strengths: Great all round Infantry and Cavalry, with some solid heroes. And....Mumak!

Weaknesses: Virtually no magic or monsters (Mumak aside). Makes tackling Monsters in other armies fairly tricky, and very little you can do to counter enemy magic without burning Might fast.

Angmar
Strengths: Ghost N Ghouls! Able to field lots of Spirits as well as RnF troops, as well as some monsters.

Weaknesses: Virtually no basic RnF Epic heroes or Magic casters. Since the army contains many spirits, certain spells can urinate on them badly. And of course fairly low Courage all round.

Sidenote-Ringwraiths.
In WotR, you can take Ringwraiths in any list and count them as 'native' to that list i.e. they do not eat into your Allies allowance, and count as your minimum 1 Epic hero in the force. This allows armies such as Fallen Kingdoms to gain quick access to powerful casters. Worth thinking about for sure!

Heroes next up!

-------------------

@ Nickskills-Yes. Epic heroes can join any friendly formation unless they have the 'We Stand ALone' rule, in which cass characters cannot join them. Morgul Knights are pretty good-Terror causing heavy cavalry. Since Terror now has an effect on the charge as well, it makes them rather nasty. And it depends which your main list is-I expect you'll easily be able to fit them in the 25% allowance though.

@ Tancred Von Longname-Swan Knights are great. Heavy armoured cavalry, but gain Unstoppable Charge on a 4+ instead of a 6. Imrahil also gives them bonuses to wound in combat IIRC, in addition to lance bonuses. They are nasty!

Mouldsta
18-03-2009, 01:19
Was looking at Suladan earlier - he's actually a really decent character, and if the enemy has plenty of cheap heroes (captains, shamans and such) then he can be a real lawnmower - every time he kills a character in a duel he gets +1 might, and every time he spends might he gets it back on a 4+.

This means he can spend most of the game at F10 (epic strike), pinning enemy units in place (epic challenge, great when combined with ringwraith), killing off their characters and doing tons of collateral damage to the rest of their unit (results of the duel). All this for virtually no might.

This is why Suladan is now painted :)

Conspyre
18-03-2009, 09:03
Gimli is very, very good, one of only two Good heroes with Epic Rampage. Amdur, Lord of Blades is brilliant for Evil for the same reason- Epic Rampage is just a phenomenal rule.
I run a Corsairs of Umbar army, and while Dalamyr is not quite as high-end as some of the others, Epic Poison is very nice for large formations. The idea of dropping him in as an ally for a large formation of Orcs or Moria Goblins and rerolling all of those attacks is rather delicious.

lorelorn
18-03-2009, 09:19
WotR makes me wish I had played some of the LotR games over the past few years. I like most of the armies, but have no idea what their strengths are so this is a really tricky decision. I like to plan ahead and until the rulebook comes out, Warseer is the best place for me to find answers.


Nah, not tedious at all. In some ways you have the advantage of not going tinot this game bringing any preconceptions with you from the last one - you'll be able to look at everything fresh. You'll notice a lot of the talk at the moment in comparative, not talking about what things do in wotr as much as what they do compared between the two systems.

I don't think character on character action will be as much of a deal in this system. The best fighter on the evil side to my eyes is Amdur, mainly because he bolsters the fighting ability of the unit he is in, especially if that unit happens to be half trolls or Morgul Knights. I'm not that interested in duellists in this system, I think characters that provide advantages to the rest of the army will be the ones to take. I may be wrong.

If I were approaching this game new, I think the armies I would be looking at closely would be Angmar on the evil side, and the Dwarfs on the good. Both armies have some interesting units and ways of playing.

Reiksguard
18-03-2009, 15:00
what about dol-amroth knights-aren t they the best armoured cavalry? Hos strong is Imrahil?

Swan Knights are still pretty much the finest heavy cavalry in the game, especially considering that they get an irresistible charge on a 4+. As for Imrahil, his modest point cost, inspiring leader special rule and choice of epic actions make him a pretty good buy.

Nickskills
18-03-2009, 15:19
Angmar
Strengths: Ghost N Ghouls! Able to field lots of Spirits as well as RnF troops, as well as some monsters.

Weaknesses: Virtually no basic RnF Epic heroes or Magic casters. Since the army contains many spirits, certain spells can urinate on them badly. And of course fairly low Courage all round.

@ Nickskills-Yes. Epic heroes can join any friendly formation unless they have the 'We Stand ALone' rule, in which cass characters cannot join them. Morgul Knights are pretty good-Terror causing heavy cavalry. Since Terror now has an effect on the charge as well, it makes them rather nasty. And it depends which your main list is-I expect you'll easily be able to fit them in the 25% allowance though.


Thanks for that! I am a complete LotR newbie, but this looks interesting enough to try. My initial thought was to do an Angmar list, with the Last Alliance plastics painted up as Dead Marsh Spectres. If you don't mind my incessant questions, what is the difference between Army of the Dead and Dead Marsh Spectres?

Hermanesq
22-03-2009, 23:40
best fighty character

Dwarven King's Champion, and the Inner Glory fortune. They are wrecking balls of scariness in game, absolutly hidious with used properly. The other day I had 2 kings champions wipe out a high elf 1500 point army by themselves. Twas great *sorry Ben*

Best unit killer in the game is a unit of orcish siegebows, led by the betrayer. In anything less than a 2k game that unit will wipe out a unit a turn with ease.

fubukii
23-03-2009, 01:28
how are the elven cav? i am looking at them and i feel they arent as good as other cav inthe game. any thoughts or opinions.

lorelorn
23-03-2009, 11:07
They move 12, or 13 with a musician, compared with 10 or 11 for other cav, and they move through any terrain except impassable without penalty. Oh, and they cause Terror and have Courage and Fight of 5.

Yeah, I think they do okay.

fubukii
23-03-2009, 23:20
true, but arent other cav half thier points with higher d and lances?

In addition it seems most things have a courage of 4, which isnt hard to pass a test with. (6+ on 2d6 :x)

thorgrim
25-03-2009, 18:09
Elven cavalry come with glaive (+1 fight) meaning that the are effectively fight 6 and have the option of shields. Personally i would prefer the extra attacks from higher fight over the bonuses from lances. And i'll happily lose a point of defense for the added mobility granted from pathfinders.

Xarius
25-03-2009, 19:28
aragorn, elendil, gil galad are all very hard heroes in a fight, suprisingly so is dalmyr!

darkstar
27-03-2009, 01:28
For those discussing the Elven cavalry, a little hint. Next time you look at the book, pay special attention to their attacks characteristic.

darkace77450
27-03-2009, 04:36
Boromir of the White Tower.

Odin
31-03-2009, 13:43
Some of the comments on this thread make me worry that my worst fears about WotR are true - that the story and background of LotR will be thrown out of the window in favour of the best killer combos. Dalmyr leading Goblins, Armdur leading Morgul Knights... just plain wrong surely?

The Muster of Rohan
31-03-2009, 13:54
Some of the comments on this thread make me worry that my worst fears about WotR are true - that the story and background of LotR will be thrown out of the window in favour of the best killer combos. Dalmyr leading Goblins, Armdur leading Morgul Knights... just plain wrong surely?

You're always going to get some people who play any game like that, given the opportunity. It happens a lot with the SBG as well.

Example: A Moria army I faced, which included a Goblin Shaman, the Balrog, a Mordor Troll chieftain and several Mordor Trolls. Yes, he called it a Moria army.

I've found that the best thing to do is stay true to your own principles, whether it be with army list building, play style or whatever else, and don't let the bastards get you down.

Rirekon
31-03-2009, 14:04
Was just going to say, it happens all the time in every game system unless you make really restrictive army lists... at which point your fluff is affecting design and that way chaos lies.

Odin
31-03-2009, 14:14
Well, I generally only play against the same 4 or 5 friends all the time anyway. So not too much of a problem, as we're all pretty sensible.

As Rirekon says though, we don't want the lists getting too restrictive. But once people start playing WotR at tournaments regularly and certain builds are found to be excessively powerful, people will put pressure on GW to fix things, and the game will become more restrictive in order to cater for the tournament scene. Same thing has happened with all the other core games - people couldn't be trusted to play in the spirit of the game, and flexibility has been lost.