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dooms33ker
18-03-2009, 04:31
Hey guys I'm new to the forums but I've been thinking about something

Does any body have an opinion or idea about how one could transfer the fantasy rule set to use for 10mm warmaster miniatures rather than the standard 28mm.


Im asking because it would be much more convenient to stage 3000-4000 point battles with limited table space using 10mm miniatures. (the issue in my mind seems to be how to remove casualties from units)

I have some ideas in mind but would any one else like to share?

The Red Scourge
18-03-2009, 07:17
Use centimeters instead of inches :)

decker_cky
18-03-2009, 07:40
Why not use warmaster rules? Warhammer won't scale well like that, but the ruleset designed for those models should work very well.

snurl
18-03-2009, 09:57
At 10mm scale, you could actually hide the fanatics in the units and no one would notice. Until it was too late.....:D

Ronin_eX
18-03-2009, 10:26
I concur with the poster who suggested just playing Warmaster. It is a much better game than WFB overall and it handles mass battles beautifully. The only reason to play WFB over it is for the detail which gets in the way at higher point levels anyways.

The core GW games were not really built to handle large battles but Epic/Warmaster do and they do it well. Also using a cm scale games would slow down substantially unless you kept table sizes equally low, but at that point using the smaller scale is useless, Warmaster ups movement so that large tables (comparatively) give more options rather than slow everything down.

If you are going down to that scale anyways you should use a system built around it because WFB would just be slow and tedious at that scale.

Storak
18-03-2009, 12:38
Use centimeters instead of inches :)

this is the good news. works fine.

bad news: have fun building bases.
(best solution: paper/cardboard movement trays that represent the unit/char positions, and the closest fitting number of normal warmaster bases placed on them, so that people recognise the unit. record loses by crossing "bases" on the paper or simply by writing numbers down)

the term "pincer movement" gets a whole new meaning...

Braad
18-03-2009, 13:52
At 10mm scale, you could actually hide the fanatics in the units and no one would notice. Until it was too late.....:D

Ow, you can do that with 28mm scale too, I can tell you that :D

I think indeed the main problem here is working with very tiny bases. You might be able to solve stuff by appointing 'wounds' to the stands, but I don't think that will be working very well, as this will cause troubles with multi-wound model units.

May I ask what the reasons are you want to do this?

Draco74
18-03-2009, 13:53
I have been trying to do some thing close to this using the Boards from "Battle Lore" and "Memoir 44". These are hex based boards but are the right size to fight the Warmaster bases in. It is nice because then you have ready made terrian tiles to use.

I dumbed things down a little on movement and range. I set each hex as 6" of range or movement. Then I divided troops in to infantry (move 1 hex charge/march 2), cavalry (move 2 hexes charge/march 3) and fast cavalry (move 3 charge/march 4).

As for marking wounds I always say that each infantry base counst as 10 men, so 2 bases eqauls 20 men. Then just keep a D10 with the unit to show how many wounds are left on each base. Cavalry I usually say 5 men per base and use a D6. It seems to work pretty well.

I know that there are much better ways of doing it, I just love using the boards for lots of different games. It makes every thing so nice and portable.

dooms33ker
18-03-2009, 14:01
I was kinda thinking along the lines of mixing the rules of characters in fantasy with those of warmaster (not the leadership ones but the way combat is handled)

Characters would be attached to units and would be able to be in base contact with other enemy units without physically having to be in the front rank.

for the purposes of attacking other characters a challenge must be declared to fight characters.

each base of 10 miniatures would count as 10 fantasy troops and units could be made up to 3 bases (30). Each base beyond the first counts as a rank, up to a maximum of 2. (this would mean less of a bonus but would last longer as a base would require 10 models being killed)

casualties would be kept track of by dice.

movement of all units would be cut in half to represent the scale shift (and table size 4x4)


By the way, I really like the warmaster rulles but no one else around seems to. also, recreating the seige of miedenheim (storm of chaos) with 4000 points on a small table (4x4) would be pretty sweet using warmaster miniatures

any comments?

dooms33ker
18-03-2009, 14:04
As for marking wounds I always say that each infantry base counst as 10 men, so 2 bases eqauls 20 men. Then just keep a D10 with the unit to show how many wounds are left on each base. Cavalry I usually say 5 men per base and use a D6. It seems to work pretty well.



I was thinking quite the same thing :)

Leogun_91
18-03-2009, 21:16
A possible solotuin is to place the warmaster stands on normal GW bases and count them as their warhammer equivalents, so a spearman stand is a spearman, they would die in droves and the character with his bodyguard would feel immensly powerfull but it would be pretty sweet.....something has to be done with monsters though.

Stuffburger
19-03-2009, 02:05
You could just play micro-hammer- Scale everything down by 2/3. Your 20mm bases are now 7mm square, have a single 10mm dude on it, cut all ranges by 2/3, etc. Quite a project and you'll probably go blind doing it but then you could play a standard 2000 point game on a 24"x16" board. It would play identically to 28mm warhammer.

I saw this done somewhere for 40k- they just magnetized the bases so they would stay put, and large battles fit easily on a coffee table. Problem is a good chunk of the whfb range doesn't have a warmaster counterpart so you'll have to do some proxying, converting or play with a limited list.

dooms33ker
19-03-2009, 02:25
yea scaling down the rules would be ideal but I would have to be nuts to model every 10mm model on its own base... although it is rather tempting

(imagining self walking into local GW store with 1000pts of mini fantasy in my wallet...:cool:)

what kind of magnets could I use?

Stuffburger
19-03-2009, 03:34
Basing them on their own shouldn't be too much harder than on stands- get a saw, some sheet styrene and just cut away and glue the minis down. Or maybe base them directly on sheet magnets, like fridge magnets? Then you could use steel sheets of some kind for move trays and nothing would fly off. Or reverse it, make a magnetic move tray and base the guys on sheet metal. A machine shop would probably make you a couple hundred 7x7mm, 9x9mm, 9x18mm and 14x14mm (roughly equivalent to 20x20, 25x25, 25x50 and 40x40) bases for something like $50.

A lot of work assembling but should paint up in a snap, and you could wow everyone showing up with two 2000pt armies and terrain in a lunchbox.

That's the other downside though, you have to make every army you want to play or play against because no one else has done this afaik.

dooms33ker
19-03-2009, 04:10
I'm actually thinking of considering this but do you think i'd be able to play warmaster with them as well?

the magnet bases would have to be somewhat thick so that the minis don't overlap.

two armies and terrain in a lunchbox would be pretty awsome.

hmm a big worry is keeping track of all those 10mm minis on their own bases. Models so small are very easy to lose.


I just painted up my first stand of warmaster empire handgunners and I like how they've turned out.

(its it really is very different painting 10mm as opposed to 28mm)

Stuffburger
19-03-2009, 16:37
At the scale I suggested it would work pretty well. You could fit a 2x5 amount of 7mm based guys on a standard warmaster 20x40mm stand, which seems reasonable to me. 9x9mm guys will fit 2x4, and cavalry will fit 2x2.

The one issue I thought of would be separating the mini's- do WM guys come all attached in strips of guys, or are they separate? A jewlers saw would work but it does complicate things.

dooms33ker
19-03-2009, 17:13
they come on strips.

five models on an infantry strip and four on the cavalry.

A warmaster base consists of two strips of infantry and one strip of cavalry/medium sized monsters per base. Most units have three bases.
perhaps it would just be easier to make the bases shorter with five troops on each as opposed to keeping track of 150 10mm miniatures.
the only trouble would be having to keep track of casualties and the location of characters

so in effect a unit of 30 would have 6 bases of 5 strong.

I think separating and basing 150 10mm minis (no pun intended) would be too much work for little reward.

any ideas on how to modify the rules to allow for characters and casualties?

Tokamak
19-03-2009, 17:37
Haha, 'Warhammer- Travel Edition'

Zink
19-03-2009, 21:12
I've heard of some people just seperately basing a handful of the minis and leaving the majority on the strips. You just use the individuals when a strip has taken damage. For every unit you need a spare 4 mini strip, 3 mini strip, 2 mini strip and 1 mini by itself. That was for 15mm games but could work in any scale.

Edit
19-03-2009, 21:43
make tiny magnet bases and you could play a game of fantasy on a 2'x1.25' metal sheet, you could even play on the side of a bus or a random mailbox :) It's pretty hardcore, but would be amusing.

Aurellis
19-03-2009, 21:46
I've no idea I'm afraid but in Fantasy my brother uses a Warmaster Greater Daemon of Slaanesh as a Herald in his DoC army.

Why not play with Warmaster rules?