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huitzilopochtli
18-03-2009, 21:32
OK, going through a "desperate to buy models" phase and my attention has been drawn to bretonnians. I was thinking of getting the batallion, converting a BSB from one of the knights and some spare elf/empire bits and using the pegasus knight as a hero until I have a real one. I'd also turn a couple of the archers into extra men-at-arms. Any idea how many points they'd total?

Malorian
18-03-2009, 21:41
Depends on what you do with it.. remember that you also MUST have a BSB as well as your general.

If you were using the box to add to an existing army it would add roughly 500 points.

The problem with the batallion is that it comes with men at arms. Your problem is that you seem to want them and more :wtf::p


I'd look at the list and really be sure of what you want to do. I started by getting two batallions (back when they came with 3 peg knights) and the men at arms have been collecting dust since...

huitzilopochtli
18-03-2009, 21:47
I plan to start an army with them so I need to make about 500 - 750 pts if I can.

Lol, are they really that bad? I thought they'd add some numbers to an otherwise small army. :)

selone
18-03-2009, 21:49
I've seen men at arms kill slayer unit's, see off marauders and fight orc boyz :) They may be slightly sub optimal but I like them :)

Phazael
18-03-2009, 21:52
Peasants are the real power of the list, though most people get obsessed with the multibus brettonian steamroller armies. A couple 5x5 Men at Arms, some mounted Yeoman, some archers, and a Relique unit provide a ton of power and are all dirt cheap.

huitzilopochtli
18-03-2009, 22:05
Peasants stay then! :) Can anyone give me a points estimate - would it make a comfortable 750 or would that be stretching it? i.e. would I need to max out EVERYTHING to get that many?

Malorian
18-03-2009, 22:11
Peasants are the real power of the list, though most people get obsessed with the multibus brettonian steamroller armies. A couple 5x5 Men at Arms, some mounted Yeoman, some archers, and a Relique unit provide a ton of power and are all dirt cheap.

If you like peasants when why don't you just play empire and get the detachment rule and better stats?

Knights are fast, infantry is slow, if the knights wait to be supported by the infantry they get blown apart by warmachines.

The only peasants worth taking are the skirmishing archers and the mounted yeomen, and even then only in limited numbers.

ewar
18-03-2009, 23:11
Peasants are the real power of the list, though most people get obsessed with the multibus brettonian steamroller armies. A couple 5x5 Men at Arms, some mounted Yeoman, some archers, and a Relique unit provide a ton of power and are all dirt cheap.

This is ironic, right? This has actually brightened up my day quite a lot! Just the thought of 5 WS2 S4 attacks 'providing a tonne of power'...

I love my peasants but they are nothing but a liability. Bring them when you want real bragging rights for a win.

Phazael
18-03-2009, 23:36
If you like peasants when why don't you just play empire and get the detachment rule and better stats?

Knights are fast, infantry is slow, if the knights wait to be supported by the infantry they get blown apart by warmachines.

The only peasants worth taking are the skirmishing archers and the mounted yeomen, and even then only in limited numbers.


Relique is completely worth it. Stubborn unit with a wardsave anyone?

Mounted Yeoman are really, really good fast cav (second only to Dark Riders) for the points.

Men at arms at 5 points per, come with a 4+ CC save and the option of being S4 when needed.

Archers, skirmishing or not, are an amazing deal with longbows and the ability to have flaming arrows at 5 points for the entire units.

All of the above get to draw leadership off of any nearby knight, not just the general, and cough up no points for losing banners. And, oh yeah, they don't ever panic the knights. You can have an immense shooting phase with solid leadership, combined with hordes of workable combat blocks, for much less than the same would cost in an Empire army. Then you have the superior knights to go with all of that.

These are all things that make them vastly superior to the Empire (or goblin) equivalents. Honestly, the only army that tables my Daemons with regularity is the peasant heavy Brett list. My track record with peasant heavy bretts is also a lot better than with the knight loaded ones. In our last SoCal Slaughter, the peasant heavy Brett list a guy ran actually crushed both a VC and DoC list (tabling the all nurgle + Thirster list in five turns), so don't tell me the peasant list is weak.

I am not sure what you are doing, but you can screen knights with peasants and I would personally rather lose a couple peasants, than a couple knights, to shooting. If war machines are your problem, then you are not running enough Mounted Yeoman and/or Peg Knights.

Like most good lists, timing and tactics are the key. Delay the knights from hitting the lines for one turn (and/or run them along the flanks) so that your peasant blocks can follow up and push you over the top on combat resolution and you will win games.

ewar
18-03-2009, 23:53
Phazael, I respect that everyone has different experiences depending on their local gamers and armies, but come on!

I've been playing brets for 4 years now, consistently qualifying for the GT grand final in the UK. A thirster on its own would destroy 1500pts of peasants. How exactly did the peasants beat an all nurgle with thirster daemon list? The peasants have Ld 5, so the terror bomb alone will force more than half to flee. Regenerating plaguebearers are nearly impossible to kill for the most elite infantry in the game, men at arms couldn't kill them in a 50 turn game, let alone 5.

I agree, mounted yeomen are amazing and are an absolutely vital tool for a bretonnian player - both for screening but more importantly baiting.

How exactly are you going to screen knights with peasants though? You're taking away the main advantage of knights (their charge), allowing the enemy to get closer to your peasants (a bad thing) and generally stuffing up your own battleline.

If you do want to run successful peasants, it needs to make up a maximum of 30% of the list, feature a Paladin on foot with the Virtue giving 12" leadership range and even then making sure they're nearly all archers. Play a refused flank, and use trebuchets to force them to come for you. I've had success with this many times, but try bringing that to a competitive game and its like bringing a butter knife to a gun fight. A gun fight with really big, shooty guns.

The Empire specialise in human infantry. Swordsmen with a detachment are better in every single situation than men at arms and they can bring much better missiles and magic as support.

Kalandros
19-03-2009, 00:12
32 Peasant Bowmen, Brazier.
Killed a chunk of black guards and the turn after, the remaining 3 + the 2 sorceress that were in the unit.

Was pretty hilarious.

GO PEASANTS.

Also, Grail Reliquae with a US of 25 (thats the main 118 pt unit + 13 extra pilgrims I believe). A big block of 4+ armor save (in close combat) with a Ward Save (Blessing of the Lady!!) and Stubborn + ItP on Ld8... ? Brilliant.

ewar
19-03-2009, 01:04
The relique isn't ItP unfortunately, so against most (tough) things it'll still peg it pretty quickly, and costs an absolute bomb for what it does.

Love the archers though :)

ambrosehlbiercemencken
19-03-2009, 02:07
Love the archers though :)

Come to think about it it's pretty ridiculous that an oppressive ruling elite of armored heavy cavalrymen would keep around a large contingent of the type of infantry that historically made them obsolete. Add some pikemen and you've just made yourself and your fat horse obsolete. Not that this is the most ridiculous thing in Warhammer, but still.

R Man
19-03-2009, 12:35
If you like peasants when why don't you just play empire and get the detachment rule and better stats?

Because army lists are determined by more than just one unit or unit types. Theres the general play style as well as the theme and models or even fluff for that matter.


Knights are fast, infantry is slow, if the knights wait to be supported by the infantry they get blown apart by warmachines.

Not nessecerily. Peasants can screen against bolt throwers and small arms. The Peasants can also provide a good amount of SCR to break deadlocks, or just bog down those peasky stubborn/ unbreakable units.

Peasants do poorly against most 7th edition infantry, but so do most older troops. Granted if you just want to charge across the field then they are not the best choice, but they can add a level to the army list that it otherwise lacks. Even a cheap 150 point unit is good enough to threaten, while still being cheap enough to sacrifice.


Come to think about it it's pretty ridiculous that an oppressive ruling elite of armored heavy cavalrymen would keep around a large contingent of the type of infantry that historically made them obsolete. Add some pikemen and you've just made yourself and your fat horse obsolete. Not that this is the most ridiculous thing in Warhammer, but still.

Not really. This has been much discussed in reacent debates and it seems idiocy and mud were much more effective against knights than longbows.

Keller
19-03-2009, 14:25
I plan to start an army with them so I need to make about 500 - 750 pts if I can.

Lol, are they really that bad? I thought they'd add some numbers to an otherwise small army. :)

If you use the Peg Knight as a Paladin on Pegaus, convert one of the Knights to a Paladin BSB, took magic items and vows, you could make a list of 700-900 points.

You could always make the knights in the box set Grail Knights instead of KotRealm, eating up more points. I don't know how cohessive of an army it would be, but it could be a start.



I like the peasants myself, but I have never played AS Bretonians. I have played against them many times and seen them do well for their point cost. Their only downfall is their poo Ld, but it can be boosted by keeping knights or characters handy.

Mireadur
19-03-2009, 16:36
It's true that Bret has a a rough time when it comes to make work together peasants and knights, however i also think loading up heavy on peasants is a good thing. The flaming arrows suddenly became a superb option thanks to Gav and Ward's works, light cav usefulness is undebateable as pointed above, but i also think men at arms for their cost and considering they will be Ld8 and give back no standards are a very useful tool.

I agree however it often becomes difficult to coordinate efficiently the slow peasants with your cavalry units, and i believe this is the real focus the person in charge for bretonnians in 7th ed should try to work on.

ambrosehlbiercemencken
19-03-2009, 16:41
Not really. This has been much discussed in reacent debates and it seems idiocy and mud were much more effective against knights than longbows.

I just learned something new. Thanks.

D-Archangel
19-03-2009, 16:57
slightly off topic, does anyone know if it's possible to make Mounted Yeoman using the MaA and Empire Pistoliers sprue? without too much hassle, I might add?

seems like a cooler (and cheaper) choice then the metal ones

Mireadur
19-03-2009, 17:05
Not really. This has been much discussed in reacent debates and it seems idiocy and mud were much more effective against knights than longbows.

Hehe, very truth probably. Definitely, when you read on the most famous battles of the 100 years war you realize french nobility were real prideful and suicidal retards.


slightly off topic, does anyone know if it's possible to make Mounted Yeoman using the MaA and Empire Pistoliers sprue? without too much hassle, I might add?

seems like a cooler (and cheaper) choice then the metal ones

Im afraid the armour of the pistoliers dont match up at all with that of the yeomen.

Keller
19-03-2009, 18:16
slightly off topic, does anyone know if it's possible to make Mounted Yeoman using the MaA and Empire Pistoliers sprue? without too much hassle, I might add?

seems like a cooler (and cheaper) choice then the metal ones

They don't really go together with Pistolier legs at all, but you could make them fit if you want to do a good bit of work with them. When I made my highwaymen (Militia-Pistoliers) I took armored knight legs, filed off the armor and reshaped them for non-barded steeds over a lighter. Took some time, the legs don't have much in the way of detail, but they look great on the table and fit my army better. I imagine something similar could be done for the Brets; just use the M@A's for the tops instead.

From what I remember of the M@A sprues, though, they would have to be cut to fit. I beleive they are 1 piece in terms of legs & torsoes.

Rolo Ramone
19-03-2009, 18:33
Just pick up the horses.

badgeraddict
19-03-2009, 18:53
What is wrong with the mounted yeoman models? They are great. Very characterful.

Ok the horses are dirge.

Orcboy_Phil
19-03-2009, 21:42
What is wrong with the mounted yeoman models? They are great. Very characterful.

Ok the horses are dirge.

The price.

Hakkapelli
19-03-2009, 21:48
Hehe, very truth probably. Definitely, when you read on the most famous battles of the 100 years war you realize french nobility were real prideful and suicidal retards.


And the Bretonnian knights doesn't qualify for that AT ALL.


Unfortunatley you can't follow the "make grail knights out of KoTR (Knights of The Realm)" advice, I meen, of course you can but you'd end up with an illegal army since the KoTR are a 1+ choice.
Making a paladin out of the peggy knight and converting one of the KoTR to a BSB would give you a force in the 600 pts area depending on the amount of kit you give to your characters. Add a damsel,some more dirt-cheep peasants and another unit of knights and you'd have an effective starting force.

Good Luck and may the Lady of the Lake be with you.

huitzilopochtli
19-03-2009, 23:36
Unfortunatley you can't follow the "make grail knights out of KoTR (Knights of The Realm)" advice, I meen, of course you can but you'd end up with an illegal army since the KoTR are a 1+ choice.

No problem. I was actually going to get grail knights eventually because I love the models. Saw a friend's painted one and that's what got me interested in Brets in the first place.


Making a paladin out of the peggy knight and converting one of the KoTR to a BSB would give you a force in the 600 pts area depending on the amount of kit you give to your characters. Add a damsel,some more dirt-cheep peasants and another unit of knights and you'd have an effective starting force.

Thanks, 600 will do for now. I'll probably just get a box of knights when I increase my force, but for the moment I'm happy to play (really) small points games. Any advice on what to do about the men at arms standard? It looks a bit...disproportionate to the models. Is there another banner I could use?


Good Luck and may the Lady of the Lake be with you.

May She smile on your efforts also. :p

(I don't know if there's a formal response to this, or, in fact, any blessing I've heard but it sounded pretty good in my head.)

badgeraddict
20-03-2009, 00:45
The price.

Ah touche.

Cortomaltese
20-03-2009, 00:54
i often field M@A.. 18 of them (i've old bretonnian alabardiers models.. from the 5th edition i think.. but my whole army is fairly from that edition), with the full command and a life damsel in..
they're really good in keeping me a table quarter, when all the rest of my units are in the opposite side of the field, bunkering the caster if needed, and protect the trebouchet when fielded..

sometimes their +4 static CR helped too..

at the end: they 've their use.. but i can't believe they can win matches alone as u said..