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Aegius
20-03-2009, 01:29
In my gaming group a majority of players write their lists based on what army they are playing. This style of playing started to really p1$$ me off. I can tailor a list with the best of them, but I decided to write a killer all comers list, because I was getting tired of this.

I am one of those rare creatures that enjoys the painting/modelling side of the hobby more than the gaming side, but also happens to win most of my games.

I have been running a list for a fair few games now that is able to take on most armies, its a wraithzilla/horde hybrid eldar list. However, my last opponent is a very sore loser, so has decided to build a list that will just crush my army. Unfortunately, his list leaked out.

Well, I could have built a whole new army to just crush him and embarass him, but I just decided to improve my list instead.

The result of improving my list, has the rest of my opponents fearing my list even more than they did before. I've just got to thank my opponent for making me fear av14 vehicles and uber killy-killy characters. You have allowed me to find the units that better balance my army against all comers.

for the record. I dropped a unit of tarpit dire avengers and a 3 man unit of shining spears for a unit of wraithguard (who go in the transport that belonged to the dire avengers.) and increased my 5 man unit of fire dragons to a unit of 10 with exarch.

Before I found out that my opponent was fielding a list that was designed to take on my MC's I was struggling to work out what I could change in my army. Well, thanks to a power gamer, I've actually made my army EVEN MORE EFFICIENT.

Has anyone else had a similar experience?

Aurellis
20-03-2009, 02:39
I think that most people will be able to tell you that by creating a standardised list that you play with that you are creating a massive tactical advantage for yourself. Ignoring the fact that your opponent will have a good idea of what you will be bringing, the advantages are that you will know how to make full use of your list and how to use it in all situations that will arise. Prolonged use will allow you to iron out all the weaknesses in your list that can be exploited by your local metagame. I run standardised, or 'all comer', lists and it's worked out for the best really, for me anyway.

sabre4190
20-03-2009, 03:04
Not exactly the same situation, but I do find that by playing better players, I improve much more quickly than by playing people at lower skill levels. I think Im kind of a similar player to you, in that i love the modelling side but also make good lists. The all comer style is definately the best, especially considering thats how things work in tourneys. Its one thing to tailor a list, and most people can do that. But to have a list that can play any mission against anyone is a feat in itself. After prolonged use, it becomes a scary thing as you make something more than a list thrown together.


By the way, I looked at your Eldar paiting log. I wouldnt mind getting destroyed by an army that look that beautiful. You seem like the ideal player if you can paint and play armies like that.

Khornate Fireball (Ork)
20-03-2009, 03:06
In lots of games, like Magic, knowing how to use your army or deck or whatever is really important, and I find few things more satisfying than learning the intricacies of playing a particular deck. I imagine that having a consistent list and playing it regularly will make you significantly better with that list. Never underestimate the power of familiarity.

ColonelGreiss
20-03-2009, 03:27
I change my list between every battle.
not because i try to tailor my army, but because i have so many models and options for my guard that i like to play it slightly differently each time. I usually dont even know what my opp is gonna play unless its one of my core group, and when you've been friends with someone for 15 years....anything goes :D. I wouldn't mind if someone tailored their army to beat mine at all, since my lists, at this point, should be good enough to beat anything. However, since i switch it up so much its hard for someone to do that...am I gonna brin GK Grandmaster and squad with my regular guard army, or am I gonna go mass infantry, or am I gonna go amrored co. or drop co. Or Tank Company.

And once tha valk's come, thats just gonne be more fun. Course ill need to buy some hydras and collosi and new leman variants.....

Goddamit im gonna have 20 k points soon.

Playing one army solid for more than 10 years can lead to gooood times.

Creeping Dementia
20-03-2009, 06:21
Once upon a time I was a player that would tailor armies, more in my early days in Fantasy really, but I've since moved on from tailoring and Fantasy and only field all-comers lists now, and I do pretty darn well.

For example, I played in a RT tourny a couple weeks ago and was only beaten in the last game, by the guy seen as the favorite to win the thing (he did actually). I play Tau by the way. During that tourney I realized a weakness in my army that until then I had been able to work around, but this time was unavoidable. Since the start of 5th I haven't taken much low AP weaponry, and instead relied on increased volume of fire. Usually I can take on marines this way, but in the tourney I got overwhelmed by 60 Podding Space wolves.

So I made a change in my list in the game I played today. Changed my commander and gave him 2 bodyguards and equipped that unit with Fusion and Plasma. I tried dropping my markerlights and brought 4 full mounted FW squads and a couple more Piranha than normal along with a couple Hammerheads.
Played against a Black Templar list, the perfect test for the changes, marines with a large amount of warm bodies. I won the game based on objectives, and won in Kill Points 9 to 2 (for a store campaign we're running). The new HQ unit really worked well, taking out a unit of DS termies, and 2 podding Dreads, and I didn't even miss that 3rd HQ slot most Tau players consider obligatory.

Am I a power gamer? Maybe, but I'll never change my list before a game even if I know what your taking. My army is constantly improving, and my goal is to be able to take on Orks, Pod marines, and all the other hard army combos people take these days, with my tactics and my list. Probably impossible, but it's something to work toward.

The_Outsider
20-03-2009, 10:28
All comer lists > tailored lists.

When you are good against every opponent but specialise against none your army gets more powerful.

the1stpip
20-03-2009, 10:53
These days, I often don't have a game planned, so I cannot tailor (and wouldn't even if I knew).

However, in the days of 2nd, we all tried to get oneupmanship. It was part of th tactics, trying to out think your opponent while you are writing your lists.

It is not power gaming if everyon expects that.

Aegius
20-03-2009, 12:45
By the way, I looked at your Eldar paiting log. I wouldnt mind getting destroyed by an army that look that beautiful. You seem like the ideal player if you can paint and play armies like that.

Thank you very much. This has made my day. :D

Latro_
20-03-2009, 12:55
It winds me up no end when i goto a normal PUAP games night and there is someone there who has taken a giant case with him with army lists written to lean towards taking on a certain race and all the models to make up 9 dif armies, or the more subtle but just as annoying folks who hot swap weapon options game for game.

e.g. has warwalkers or something that have scatter lasers vs a game against orks, then have bright lances vs mech guard etc in the next game...

IMO every list should be geared for all comers, otherwise its far to easy to exploit the game.


edit: if both armies are configged to face the other though then fair play, the game'll just be short and boring.

W0lf
20-03-2009, 12:58
My group only play all-comers.

A solid all comers list is kinda hard to tailor against if its balanced and has been stripped down to a really finesse playing style.

0ld1eye
20-03-2009, 13:52
Well, thankfully my local GW has begun gearing up for a tournament, so the tailored lists are disappearing to be replaced with solid all-round lists, which I've been doing for months. I will have something of an advantage as I know EXACTLY how reliable everything in my force is, how much damage it can do to specific squads, their roles, how much firepower they can take, and how much they draw... and my win ratio has rocketed thanks to it.

Frontier
20-03-2009, 14:25
I'm getting into the all comers list. I've been trying that for a couple of years, and am getting better at it. I still do not consider myself a power gamer though. Admittedly, it is more fun to make an all comers list, but sometimes you still do tailor a list to your opponent.

EVIL INC
20-03-2009, 15:17
I find power gamers tyo not be all that bad. They help you to hone your skills and to have the rules imprinted more on your mind. I find that I make less mistakes when I play them because they fgorce me to be more carefull.
True, they can be a pain but they do have thier uses.