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View Full Version : Knights under fire sir! What are your orders?!



Long_Fang
13-12-2005, 04:47
Alright, so you have a cavalry heavy team (ie my Bretonnian team) and your enemy has a heavy amount of ranged troops and war-machines. He outshoots you and your troops are expensive, so you cannot depend on crossing no-mans land head on without taking heavy casulties.

What do you do to keep your knights alive? Just charge straight in? Some form of screening unit? What kind of unit would you use? Probobly something cheep so it doesnt matter if it gets killed and something fast so it doesn't slow down your knights?

I am trying a screen of Mounted Yeomen who will take the fire and head straight for the missile troops and war-machines, right infront of my knights, cloing line of sight to them. If they live to kill the enemy, great, if they do not they will at least take some shots for the Knights.

What tactics do you use against teams that straight out out-shoot you? If your a shooter, what do you fear?? :evilgrin:

oma
13-12-2005, 06:25
funny: use the mounted yeomen as screening, the enemy shoots all of them down, leaving nothing to stand in your way blocking los for a charge!

Neknoh
13-12-2005, 07:01
With the Bretonnians, there's only a few things you should worry about: Cannons, Bolt Throwers and the Goblin Hewer, but, you get your bonus ward aggainst all three of them, so... just stack up on Knights of the Realm and Knights Errant in order for them to make it across the field, even a weakened lance will cut deep into r&f units.

There's also a very nice trick in fooling your opponents into shooting at the wrong unit, take a minimum-sized unit of Grail Knights and watch your opponent do everything in order for them not to reach his lines, this will result in the rest of your units (8-9 man lances) getting into combat on round 2 or 3 at latest and wreck some serius havoc.

And if he goes gunning for the rest of the units, 5 Grail Knights can seriusly hurt anything that gets in their way.

You should also remember to get a unit of Pegasus Knights in order to hunt down warmachines and make for that extra disruption and another target for a worried opponent.

When playing Bretonnia, don't bother with screens, get more knights for those points, more knights are actually a lot harder to gun down than a screening unit, as they have their armour and ward.

Though when playing other cav. heavy armies, you should at least try to manouver your main hitters in such a way that the enemy has to pick one of them and not being able to take out several troops/units in one go.

You should also use sacrificial troops to make the enemy change positions on his units so that you get the upper hand with flank and rear- charges.

Though when playing Chaos, there can be nothing more stupid than dancing arround the opponent, just go for everything on one flank and collapse that part, break through and go gunning for the rears and flanks of his other units whilst sending Chosen Knights, Dragon Ogres and Shaggoths up his centre so that if he turns to face those Marauder Horsemen with flails, Mounted Daemonettes or normal Knights, he gets those in his rear

samw
13-12-2005, 21:51
Line of skirmishing archers first turn across in fornt of your knights. Reform the (remaining) archers and run forward. You need now endure just one round of shooting before combat. Perfection itself.

Griefbringer
13-12-2005, 22:09
With Bretonnia I would not bother with mounted yeomen for screening - they are too expensive for that, and have rather poor save compared to the knights.

If enemy war machines are an issue, pegasus knights (or any other flyers) could be handy for getting into grips with them.

Certain magic lores contain spells that can be used to protect units from missile attacks.

If enemy has lots of missile units, I would try to concentrate my whole attack on one flank - that way the other flank would be too far away to shoot at my units as they close in.

Long_Fang
14-12-2005, 01:18
I can see it now...attack only one flank with a skirmisher screen...it will be done

Kahadras
14-12-2005, 08:58
Overloading your opponant with targets is also a valid tactic. I usualy send my Pegasus knights straight at my opponants artillery giving him a choice. Shoot my KotR for a turn and lose his artillery or shoot my Pegasus knights and have to reduce the amount of damage done to my deep blocks of knights before they reach combat. The 5+ ward save also helps Brets suck up the damage from warmachine shooting.

Kahadras

MarcoPollo
15-12-2005, 01:32
There is a tactic employed by the Tomb Kings that is pretty good with Bretonian I would think. I am just starting this army and much of my advice is speculation based upon playing against other bretonian armies and also some sneaky tactics that I have witnessed.

It goes like this. You can employ a knight heavy army and still force enemy units to come to you. One trebuchet and a whole lot of archers and a few damsels will give you the ranged punch to dish out some threats to his more important pieces. Arrange your archers in a several long lines of 16 - 20 models a peice with the spikes. Keep your knights behind the lines offering their leadership and a few on the flanks. The enemy should be advancing across the field to engage your units. When they get withing charging range, refrom your long lines of archers into blocks. They do not loose the sticks in the ground and will have a definite advantage against other large blocks. Throw in a few characters to be able to hit back and you have a highly defensive unit with room for your knights to be able to charge through the holes left from reforming.

Now if your opponent can out gun you, you will need to take the initiative so strategies of grail knights and pegaus knights can distract gun lines and give you opponent fits as to what to target first.

Long_Fang
15-12-2005, 09:03
I really like the long lines of Peasant Bowmen. Considering they are uber cheep it might work. One oversight is that they do lose the stakes once you reform (pitty). Never the less, I am trying this.

Crazy Harborc
16-12-2005, 02:07
If you don't cross the field....and quickly, you'll just have that many more incoming whatevers to cause you saving dice rolls to make.

If an opponent has shooting from elevations, atop hills, he can just shoot over the skirmishers to the units behind. Get across the battlefield.

Grand Warlord
16-12-2005, 02:56
Question ... would bowman on foot block Line of Sight to a mounted knight?

Neknoh
16-12-2005, 04:39
Yes he would, he would block LoS to anything that isn't a Large Target

Long_Fang
16-12-2005, 05:10
Yeah check out this list. I'm gonna try and outshoot my Empire opponent. Somehow I am not sure if it will work.....

Paladin
Heavy armour
Barbed Warhorse

8 Knights of the Realm (Knights Vow)
Musician

8 Knights of the Realm (Knights Vow)
Musician
Standard Bearer

Damsel of the Lady
Chalice of manfauer (1: take wound, 2-6: extra dispel dice)
Dispel Scroll
Bretonian Warhorse
Level two wizard

Damsel of the Lady
Level 2 wizard
Bretonian Warhorse
Dispel Scroll
Dispel Scroll

Bretonian Lord
Virtue of Knightly Temper
Tress of Issolude
Enchanted Shield
Barbed Bretonian Warhorse
Lance
Cuirass of Fortune

Field Trebuchet

Field Trebuchet

3 Peagasus Knights (Knights vow)
Musician
Standard Bearer

10 Peasant Bowmen with light armour
Villein
Musician
Standard Bearer

10 Peasant Bowmen with light armour
Villein
Musician
Standard Bearer

10 Peasant Bowmen with light armour
Villein
Musician
Standard Bearer

10 Peasant Bowmen with light armour
Villein
Musician
Standard Bearer

40 Men at arms with spears
Standard Bearer
Musician

Long_Fang
16-12-2005, 05:17
Well I just, to my own shame, decided this team sucks and I will probobly not use it in my next game. As I am 1-1 in the campaign we are playing and need the next victory. One day, when I'm cocky and won't mind loosing as much.

Okuto
16-12-2005, 19:54
Actually I usually welcome my enemy to fire at my knights. Knights in general are somewhat resistant to missiles......

But I think just by giving the enemy something else to worry about is good enough protection as it

MarcoPollo
18-12-2005, 01:34
The book says nothing about redressing ranks with the bowmen and loosing the spikes. It says "any movement" will make these spikes disappear, but when you add or subtract characters you can put extra spikes in. I wonder if there is any clarification on this point.

Shagrat
18-12-2005, 09:15
The book says nothing about redressing ranks with the bowmen and loosing the spikes. It says "any movement" will make these spikes disappear, but when you add or subtract characters you can put extra spikes in. I wonder if there is any clarification on this point.

How exactly do you MOVE your soldiers into another formation, without moving then? Its pretty clear to me.
Change formation = Movement.

Cpt. Drill
19-12-2005, 08:57
Lose all your pesants! the only pesants you should take is skirmishing bow men and mounted yoemen! the others are dead weight in the army!

Then take lots of msu knights!

Shield of Freedom
26-12-2005, 02:49
Stock up on knights. Move across the field as fast as you can (remember to stay out of his charge range in the turn you're trying to place your units for a "next turn charge.")

4 units of Lances at least 9 knights strong means he can't do enough damage to any of them to stop your inevitible charge. If he concentrates on one lance wiping it out, you'll have 3 whole lances left.... and if he scatters his shots across your army, he won't do enough significant damage to each one to worry about.

My 2000 point list has done very well. Don't forget that Life magic rules. No line of sight needed and if artillery is on a hill and one of you casters (or both if you opponent is unlucky) rolls the stone spell, his war machines will be taking 2d6 S5 hits when cast.

Lord (attatched to the Grail Knights)
-Grail Vow
-Birthsword of Carcassonne
-Gromril Great Helm
-Mantle of Damsel Elena
-Virtue of Discipline
-Barded Warhorse

Paladin Battle Standard Bearer (attatched to the Knights of the Realm)
-Knight's Vow
-Banner of the Lady
-Virtue of Duty
-Barded Warhorse

Paladin (attatched to the Questin Knights)
-Questing Vow
-Sword of the Quest
-Barded Warhorse

Damsel of the Lady
-level 2 wizard
-Warhorse

Damsel of the Lady
-level 2 wizard
-Warhorse

9 Knights Errant
-Full command
-Errantry Banner

8 Knights of the Realm
-Full command

10 Peasant Bowmen

3 Pegasus Knights
-Full command

8 Questing Knights
-Full command

5 Grail Knights
-Full command
-War Banner

Total 1993

bored1
26-12-2005, 12:01
1. The Bretonnian answer to most threats is to charge forward. Very few armies bring enough guns to drop 6-7 lances. Or even better, 5-6 lances with 2-3 units of pegasus knights.

2. Redressing ranks is listed under the "movement" section of the rulebook. If you can't figure that one out, I'm certainly glad I don't have to play you.

3. Trying to outshoot your opponents with Brets is a mistake. Your strength is 16" moving knights. If you deploy 12" in, on the first turn you are 28" across the board. On the second turn, you are 44" out of 48". Your pegasi are across the board. With good deployment and movement, most shooty lists just don't have the time to stop you.

Shield of Freedom
28-12-2005, 21:03
1. The Bretonnian answer to most threats is to charge forward. Very few armies bring enough guns to drop 6-7 lances. Or even better, 5-6 lances with 2-3 units of pegasus knights.

2. Redressing ranks is listed under the "movement" section of the rulebook. If you can't figure that one out, I'm certainly glad I don't have to play you.

3. Trying to outshoot your opponents with Brets is a mistake. Your strength is 16" moving knights. If you deploy 12" in, on the first turn you are 28" across the board. On the second turn, you are 44" out of 48". Your pegasi are across the board. With good deployment and movement, most shooty lists just don't have the time to stop you.


I second that.

mageith
29-12-2005, 04:13
1. The Bretonnian answer to most threats is to charge forward. Very few armies bring enough guns to drop 6-7 lances. Or even better, 5-6 lances with 2-3 units of pegasus knights.

Pegasus Knights are 0-1 unless your general is on a Pegasus. Is this common?



2. Redressing ranks is listed under the "movement" section of the rulebook. If you can't figure that one out, I'm certainly glad I don't have to play you.


Its on page 76 and one of the last things done in a turn, way after movement, after magic and after combat. Its after pursuit movement, but this is hardly the movement phase.

However, characters joining units is done during movement and so would be movement.

You and MarcoPolo probably thinking of "Change Formation", page 49?

Mage Ith

Chuffy
30-12-2005, 13:28
Charge foward and damn the cannons! It worked for the light brigade didn't it?

But seriously, Bretonnian armies can charge across the board and smash a shooty army with very few casualties, you can screen and hide, but you might aswell just charge charge charge.

strv
30-12-2005, 13:44
Charge foward and damn the cannons! It worked for the light brigade didn't it?


Well, they did get to, and kill the cannons crew, didn't they?