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plasmadaemon
03-05-2005, 18:55
A member of staff from our store showed me the new tyranid codex but very quickly, flicking through the pages, because staff aren't allowed to show the new codex until the 21st.
All i know is:
There are blue prints for the monsters (those little piccies in the army list section),
The 1st page looks crap (the one with the contents)
There is a fair amount of fluff with spanking new pictures, but most of all i think is the fact that the gargoyle models are not yet changing.

i'll get more info if I can.

btw the ripper models are exactly the same exept for the gun-holding one. (that means that rippers can now shoot)

Inquisitor Engel
03-05-2005, 19:28
btw the ripper models are exactly the same exept for the gun-holding one. (that means that rippers can now shoot)
If you'd have read the Ripper section, you'd have noticed they can take Spine Fists for 1/2pts each (2 if they have Toxin Sacs) per base. However, ALL Rippers much have the Spine Fists (So 2 shots per base) upgrade.

You're going to need A LOT of Genestealer sprues (or maybe the new MC sprue, don't know about that) to WYSIWYG that. :p

zealousheretic
03-05-2005, 19:37
2 shots? Shouldn't it be 3? Or did rippers lose an attack?

MiniPainter
03-05-2005, 21:55
OK I saw it today too and also saw it in action.

Pretty much everything in the list has half a page of mutation options! most things have had stats reduced along with points cost, so you have to upgrade them a little bit. But still, they are very customisable like the old list.

The carnifex is an absolute beast as everyone keeps saying. LOTS of options and can be taken as elites if under 115 pts or something (cant remember exact cost, correct me if im wrong)

No more shoot the big ones, hormagaunts count as beasts - so move 12" assault 6" and get fleet of claw. Normal gaunts can get the without number rule at 3pts a model.

Lictors are pretty cool. They now deep strike into an area of cover so you dont have to think before the game and guess where they'll be most effective. If they scatter out of cover they just get placed on the edge of the cover. They also allow you to re-roll any reserves rolls each turn - 1 reroll per lictor, so if you have 3 you get 3 rerolls.

The gribbly heads are quite good too (feeder tendril thingys??). They give that unit preferred enemy so they hit on 3+. Also any other unit within 6"! Another upgrade gives the scout ability, so although stealers have lost infiltrate they can be given scout.

New psychic power (forget what its called) is always in play and makes your enemy have to take psychic tests on 3D6 and remove the lowest.

Cant remember much else, but one cool thing about the book is the example mutated species (there are about 6 different variations on the carnifex's double page spread) showing examples of how they can be upgraded.

In the game testing them they actually lost, but used right they can be devastating.

malika
04-05-2005, 00:26
What kind of new fluff is in there?

Inquisitor Engel
04-05-2005, 00:50
What kind of new fluff is in there?
Three words: Lost. Hive. Fleets.

:D

(There's no :evilgrin: )

The Orange
04-05-2005, 01:23
Hey did they keep "Old one eye" and the "Red Terror" characters? Or are they scraped, considering the new models and all?

MiniPainter
04-05-2005, 01:39
Hey did they keep "Old one eye" and the "Red Terror" characters? Or are they scraped, considering the new models and all?

Actually now you've said that I dont remember seeing any rules for any specil characters at all.

Negafex
04-05-2005, 02:27
ive senn the codex too and im 99% sure there are no special characters of any sort as someone recently said ( i forgot who) it goes against their nature. any usefull mutations are absorbed back into the genepool for mass production

Inquisitor Engel
04-05-2005, 02:36
There are no special characters or rare creatures or anything like that in the new Codex. It is the list and that's it. Wonderful list that it is.

Oh, and those who know they'll be going up against Fexes - BRING SNIPER RIFLES.

hood_oz
04-05-2005, 07:40
Oh, and those who know they'll be going up against Fexes - BRING SNIPER RIFLES.

Mmmm, thats going to make my nice scout sniper squad INVALUABLE in tournaments... Glad to hear that there is a reasonable way of curbing the monster.

But if there is three.... I will just have to try a few variations of carnifex for my genestealer invasion force.

And truthfully I would of been very surprised to see any old character in the Nid codex. Everything gets recycled in the gene vats way too quickly.

I am just waiting with baited breath till I get myself a copy of it. I am bursting to see the lovely new artwork.

zealousheretic
04-05-2005, 07:50
Oh, and those who know they'll be going up against Fexes - BRING SNIPER RIFLES.

Aren't sniper rifles AP6?

The ability to wound on a 4+ is nice, but the fex's armor makes this far from the perfect weapon against them.

Lord Balor
04-05-2005, 08:06
Aren't sniper rifles AP6?

The ability to wound on a 4+ is nice, but the fex's armor makes this far from the perfect weapon against them.

That just depends on wheather you happen to be a certain ancient race using a certain craftworld list with a certain unit type :D

Pathfinders are teh real stealthy assassians of 40K and you gotta love that 2+ inv save while in bunkers!

zealousheretic
04-05-2005, 08:17
Point taken. To be real honest, I can't remember the last time I faced non-Dark Eldar, so maybe that's why they slipped my mind.

Forgotmytea
04-05-2005, 09:35
I can't wait for the new 'nid dex now, providing you can still have mixed beastie armies rather than the "all-one-size" armies they described in the latest UK WD. But, new rules + old models = I might just keep my Tyranids going for a bit longer.... :D

If you can only have "all-one-size" armies, I'm gonna scream.... :eek:

Imus
04-05-2005, 09:37
Hormagaunts still get the leaping action! So they move 6 and assault 12 but don't have fleet of claw. They start at 10 points and have quite a few upgrades but as i found with the list is better to have lots of cheap things! I managed to keep my carni's down to 150 or so points and get 2 of them in a army which wasn't so bad! The problem i find wiht the list is that it allows you to doo too much and soo people do and end up with uber beasts but only a few! An example is giving the extra save for gaunts of all types. ITs not worth it as most weapons in the game are AP 5 and so why pay points for death. Even in assault your still beter off saving the points and paying for more! Another example is the carnifex, regen is a cool upgrade but too expensive. Why do you need it with a toughness 7 beast (yes upgrade) and 5 wounds! (again upgrade) Its hard enough, save points! SAVE THEM!

Iracundus
04-05-2005, 10:20
How many of the old Gaunt biomorphs are still available? I ask because a lot of my Gaunts are beefed up to represent the fleet evolving a better Gaunt to face the enemy.

MiniPainter
04-05-2005, 21:02
Hormagaunts still get the leaping action! So they move 6 and assault 12 but don't have fleet of claw.

i vividly remember it saying "hormagaunts are beasts and follow the rules for beasts in the 40k rulebook" and so move 6 assault 12 and get fleet of claw.

Deathjester26
04-05-2005, 21:16
Could somebody who can look at the codex (and not somebody who's trying to remember what they glanced at once) clarify this gaunt stuff please.....
It would be appreciated.

Imus
04-05-2005, 23:19
i have the codex and yes hat is true. Sorry they do move as beasts and have the fleet of craw rule, meaning they are bloody fast!

Inquisitor Engel
04-05-2005, 23:36
Aren't sniper rifles AP6?

The ability to wound on a 4+ is nice, but the fex's armor makes this far from the perfect weapon against them.
Yes, but when they can become T7 Regenerating 5 wound monstrosities, you need to be hitting on 2's and wounding on 4's unless you can pack a bunch of S7 or greater weapons.

Sniper Rifles also allow you to take out synapse creatures like no one's business. :D

Gop
05-05-2005, 00:17
What am I going to do with my Red Terror model :( He was an awesome mini as well as combat unit. I hope they are still in the list (maybe elite?)

Brimstone
05-05-2005, 00:27
What am I going to do with my Red Terror model :( He was an awesome mini as well as combat unit. I hope they are still in the list (maybe elite?)

No Red Terror in the list it was unique for 3rd edition, no special characters at all.

If you want to still use it just count it as a Ravener using the standard stats, prehaps a brood leader.

MiniPainter
05-05-2005, 13:54
No Red Terror in the list it was unique for 3rd edition, no special characters at all.

If you want to still use it just count it as a Ravener using the standard stats, prehaps a brood leader.

Unless of course they release rules for it in WD or online like they do sometimes

Cheesejoff
05-05-2005, 15:45
Sniper rifles are good for taking down Synapse creatures, although you need a LOT of them to do serious damage.

charlie_c67
05-05-2005, 15:50
Three special weapon guard squads with 3 sniper rifles each for instance?

plasmadaemon
05-05-2005, 16:43
just so you know: on the 21st our store will be showing off the new codex, i will read it and tell you everything you need to know :)

(exept the points cost ofcourse)

Scythe
05-05-2005, 19:16
Three special weapon guard squads with 3 sniper rifles each for instance?

Hmm, sniper rifles tend to be quite overpriced on standard guard. You'd probably be better of with 10 ratlings (provided you don't have anything against halflings in 40k, like I do ;)).

Wez
05-05-2005, 19:26
Just to spoil the fun, you'll need 72 sniper shots to kill a carnifex with 5W and a 2+ save.:p

You might as well kill it with AP2 weapons and powerfists imo. Yes it's good in combat, but it's also a lot easier to kill in combat!

-Wez

Negafex
05-05-2005, 21:11
dont the tyranid carnifex and hive tyrant tend to have really good saves...oh ...say..2+
and dont sniper rifles AP kind of ....you know...suck so yeah im gonna have to agree that one would need a lot of snipers and very good luck ( combined with the synapse creatures bad luck) to do muck so yeah, snipers dont kill of tough guys as well as everyone seems to think unless they belong to a certain eldar craftworld

Kjell
05-05-2005, 22:06
Wait, the GW employees are not allowed to show the new Tyranid codex until the 21st of this month, May? Oh my... And I who have been allowed to take a peek as much as I wanted because I "asked nicely". :D

Actually, anyone was allowed to take a look. Without any redshirt standing guard, even.

Adept
06-05-2005, 01:20
Three special weapon guard squads with 3 sniper rifles each for instance?

No, more like 30+ sniper rifles in an army to stand a serious chance.

Min max las-plas tac squads are a better bet.

hood_oz
06-05-2005, 04:22
No, more like 30+ sniper rifles in an army to stand a serious chance.

Min max las-plas tac squads are a better bet.

Well, I have a full scout squad with them, they seem to do fine against most enemies.

But I will put more faith in the four assault cannon in my tournament army....
rending will make a difference to the bigger targets.

Or maybe I should dust off the eldar army... *grin*

twisted_mentat
06-05-2005, 05:31
Well i got to look at it from cover to cover (probbaly because i'm sorta an ex staffer).

Somethign i noticed, loss of Hive nodes. your gaunts will have to remain in synapse range. Though being in synapse range does mean you cannot be instant killed.

Brood lord enables Genestealers to be able to infiltrate ( or is it deep strike...damn i forgot), but they loose their new Fleet of claw ability. again, trade off. BTW we think that this will the most often forgotten rule in the new book.

Though i think genestealers can have a max 4+ save.

Oh yea, of course you need to have all the biomorphs modeled on your creatures. So make sure you're paying attention to your codex when you put together than new carni...you might end up creating something that looks really awsome, but then gets eaten by tau in HtH (not that would happen..but still..).

Only Rippers can have wings. gaunts cannot. So if you want an all flying army you'll need to have flying rippers as your troops.

one flying hive tyrant.

Thers alot of "you take this ability, but loose this one", and the biomorph tables are laid out pretty clearly. The best thing to compair it too is maybe the Tau Battlesuits, with all the options listed, and you choose X from weapons and X from support.

And yes, you can make carnies and tyrands tanks, but they will cost you. a 6 Carni army is possible, but you'll have to make them fairly inexpensive to include them all. If i remmeber correctly, in 1500 pts, you wouldn't be able to include all 2+ save 5 wound regenerating.

Tyrant Guard can only have HTH Bioweapons. The models are basicly a solid block of metal.

Lashwhips and boneswords are back. i forget what boneswords do, but lashwhips remove 1 attack from either a single oppent or all oppents.

Overall, i think that The new Tyanids are pretty nasty, but theres alot less room to abuse them as there once was.

hood_oz
06-05-2005, 06:05
Lashwhips and boneswords are back. i forget what boneswords do, but lashwhips remove 1 attack from either a single oppent or all oppents.

Overall, i think that The new Tyanids are pretty nasty, but theres alot less room to abuse them as there once was.

Actually I heard the bonesword increased the range of one of the psychic powers or something similar. I could be just being fed bullcr@p but thats the way it goes.

Abuse, there was a chance to abuse the old list, but facing someone in a tournament and trying to figure out their costings and upgrades when you look over their list and codex was a real pain. Not all of us can add up without a calculator handy. But I did pick a few mistakes up over the years. Wether it was cheating or poor reading of the codex on their part is debatable. Some of them, sure, mistakes, others, were very probably abuse and cheating. Just cause you SAY it can be done doesnt mean the codex actually allows it. The 'Show me the rule or an example' can cause people to get really riled up. Especially when they know they are in the wrong.

twisted_mentat
06-05-2005, 06:20
Well, the Hivefleet rules were very easy to abuse.

I've caught some people making the same mistake in points or combination of items a number of times...even when mistakes have been pointed out, they act like they didn't realize it was there....

charlie_c67
06-05-2005, 10:28
And doesn't the sniper rifles ignore armour? My memory's a little hazy of it rules and I don't have any books with me here at work.

Kjell
06-05-2005, 10:37
The bonesword allows a Tyrant to use a certain power (I forget which, heh) without actually purchasing that power.

Scythe
06-05-2005, 10:57
No, more like 30+ sniper rifles in an army to stand a serious chance.

Min max las-plas tac squads are a better bet.

Unfortunately that's not really an option when playing IG... You'll pay 95 pts for a squad with plasma & las, and they only have BS 3. Plus powerfist guard squads are usually 5 men strong, which means the powerfist is long gone before it even had a chance to strike. Oh well, just load up some stormtroopers and veterans with BS4 rapid firing plasma rifles I guess... :D


And doesn't the sniper rifles ignore armour? My memory's a little hazy of it rules and I don't have any books with me here at work.

No they don't. Only Alaitoc Pathfinders (and Eldar rangers on a roll of 6 to hit? I'm not an Eldar expert...) and the Vindicare assassin have sniper rifles that ignore saves.

charlie_c67
06-05-2005, 11:13
That's impressive Scythe! How'd you manage to quote me as twisted_mentat?

Scythe
06-05-2005, 11:15
Hmm, I'm not quite sure about that!

:D

Let's see how to fix this...

edit: done ;)

twisted_mentat
07-05-2005, 05:07
Thanks, i don't want to be getting credit for someone elses question!

And i agree, guard, you're best change is to load up on Autocannons. 3 squads of 3 of these, thats 18 shots, pretty good odds you'll cause wound or two. Also, if you managed to wack the Carni or tyranid, you can use those shots on the gaunts...i mean, i'm PRETTY sure that the highest save that gaunts can have is 5+ and Genestealers have is 4+...and ACs are AP4...
Execution Leman Russ, another decent choice. Plasma gun armed storm troopers, also hardend Vets have BS4 as well, so that will help as well.

and Pie....everyone loves pie....

Scythe
07-05-2005, 11:19
Just thinking; perhaps a squad of rough riders with hunting lances would be effective too. Just to finish of that carnifex or tyrant which already took a wound or 2 which is about to whack your tanks. Altough this will not be really effective anymore against a T7 carnifex...

And for gaunts (or stealers), a hellhound should do wonders...

Negafex
07-05-2005, 17:24
my friend posed to me a hypothetical the other day, what if a carnifex ( the new one) and a wraithlord started off on opposite ends of a 4x4 table and had a duel? who would win? what bioweapons would be best? is the new carnifex still initiative 2? cause neither of us could come up with a definite answer

twisted_mentat
07-05-2005, 19:05
You know, i was too busy looking at the s and w for the carni, i compleatly forgot to look at its I....

if it is 2 still...that would change things...marines with power weapons could take on a carni with str 6...

but yes, s7 carni....best option...Run!

Oh yea, i should mention that you can get 10 attacks with a Hive Tyrant, so even if you had a 10 man squad with power fists, theres chance that you might not be able to get many power fist attacks back...and don't even think of a 5 man squad...

Dreachon
07-05-2005, 19:43
How on earth would you get 10 attacks with a Tyrant, it doesn't get crushing caws, can't take tusks and no tail attacks from it.

Brimstone
07-05-2005, 20:02
You know, i was too busy looking at the s and w for the carni, i compleatly forgot to look at its I....

if it is 2 still...that would change things...marines with power weapons could take on a carni with str 6...


Base I has actually gone down, however give it spinebanks and charge it at something in cover and things change ;)


Oh yea, i should mention that you can get 10 attacks with a Hive Tyrant, so even if you had a 10 man squad with power fists, theres chance that you might not be able to get many power fist attacks back...and don't even think of a 5 man squad...

No you can't six max with 2xscytals and charging.

Lardidar
07-05-2005, 21:31
Thanks Brim' was looking at my codex and trying to figure out how to get 10 attacks thought I was missing something.

6 is the most I could come up with.

Scythe
08-05-2005, 14:14
That's 6 plus one armour save allowing bio-plasma attack, right?

Kyuss
08-05-2005, 15:27
The bone sword psychic power is Catalyst, so I guess its only going to be useful against Eldar or other Tyranids. Most Tyranids are I4 aren't they?

Its also the worst modelling/game mechanic idea ever for Tyranids.....

"Darling, whats that in your hand?"

"Oh its all the fashion Sweet Pea, why have perfectly designed Talons, when you can hold a big lump of bone instead?"

"Oh Darling, your SSOOO retro! Its just like what those little men have!"

"I've always been keen to assimilate other cultures..."

"Yours such a wag darling"

"I know Sweet Pea"

I rest my case............


Kyuss