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Hvidponi
24-03-2009, 14:17
An another;

I have no experince with them but as far as I can see:
Mazdamundi, seems fine, altough expensive he also got a 275 pts mount figured into the price
Kroak, overpriced, but definatly very boring
Kroq-Gar, very overpriced but good
Tenehauin, lord chice that is a level 2 mage, well...
And all of the heores seems overpriced, and the cheamleon one is close to useless.

As far as I can tell, if anything should be done, it was to lower the price on some of them. But again, no experince.

Thanks for any input

Feefait
24-03-2009, 14:32
I don't think either of the Slann are worth the cost myself. Kroq-Gar possibly, but it means oyu will need to bring some scroll caddies ot protect him. I think you're right, he is expensive. But he can devastate a unit by himself.

I like the hero choices much better, but they are very situational. My favorite is Tetto'eko. I used him with a Slann and a skink on an Engine and took all Heavens. He really made a difference. I got careless and got him killed early, but he can change the game. The tmeple guard special character,(gor'rok?) is nice too, but again seems expensive.

Most of these seemed designed for armies over 2k. I don't know hwo you'd afford them otherwise. I had Tetto'eko in a 2k list and I was seriusly hurting for troops.

nosferatu1001
24-03-2009, 14:44
Chakkax is the TG special character - also the most expensive Hero character I've ever seen, at over 300 points! He does however, on average rolling, kill Skulltaker as long as Skullie is on foot. However, stick him with TG and you have an unbreakable unit with an immune to damage (unles you get a lucky cannonball) lord BSB mage in there. hell of a deathstar unit!

Slaan plus palanquin skink plus engine with extra spell can really be devastating - you can dominate your magic phase, with effectively 9 levels of magic (although free PD slaan is difficult to calc it is probably worth 4 levels by itself) and the chance to -1 to cast cost heavens on the same turn that you get to IF on any succesful cast including a double. However, I would say engine+slaan is probably enough, as it is pretty pricey and heavens isnt THAT good.

That's all that can really be said about the characters - none seem well priced. Mazda, if his banner DID something, would be ok, and does work well in a unit of saurus (immune to terror, BSB ld9 stubborn reroll coldblooded and impact hits), but Kroak? Dull. good battery for your...skinks. better in 3k with another slann, but even then theres only so many spells you want to cast from one mage.

Gorok seems useless - so his shield counts as defended obstacle? so what - if hes on his own he's dead, and it doesnt help the unit against things like chariot impact hits. It should have affected the whole unit to be useful.

Dokushin
24-03-2009, 17:47
(Disclaimer: though I have watched games involving LM and I've been playing LM for many years, I have not fielded any of the new SCs.)

I originally thought Mazdamundi was way overpriced and not worth his points -- I mean, he doesn't even have the extra powerdie discipline! But I'm really starting to think he's pretty good, and am building a list around him now.

Think about it -- he's still a level 4 mage, he gets all the spells from a lore, he can re-roll miscasts, throw six dice on one spell, and he knows an amazing bonus spell -- Ruination of Cities. Goes off on 13, and does 2d6 S5 within 18" with no LOS required and if it wounds it halves movement next turn. The killing power of that frees you up to take a good support lore, like Life, or Beasts.

Now on top of that he's a Slann, so he's T4 with 5 wounds, and he has a 2+ armor save and a 4+ ward save. On top of that he's got an ASF poison weapon -- and while he's WS2 with 1 attack if you roll that 5 or 6 you get to break a magic weapon, which he's impossible to kill without.

Then, of course, he's your General AND BSB, on stubborn cold-blooded 9 all on his own, and with his armor and the steg he rides, as well as the threat from the cobra mace, he can quite comfortably ride around on his own without the normal 300 point unit of temple guard. Now don't get me wrong -- TG are amazing. But an ancient stegadon is no slouch, and it's M6. And this one has another 2+ armor save, with 5 wounds on toughness six. So good luck killing rider or mount, and good luck breaking stubborn cold-blooded Ld 9 rerollable (%0.03).

And this is all without considering the specifics of the lore he takes. Life gives him not only shooting defense, but a spell to heal all wounds. Think about that -- this is already one of the hardest to kill models in the game. Beasts stops anything faster than M6, giving you movement superiority, and then gives you more movement than that.

So the way I see it, Mazdamundi is going to be impossible to kill, an incredible hammer threat, a power in the magic phase, an incredibly dependable general and bsb, mobile, impossible to break, and some of our most legendary fluff.

But yeah, I think most of the others are overpriced. :D

Hvidponi
24-03-2009, 18:01
The chance of breaking him is more around the lines of 0,3%, not 0,03... but still pretty decent :D

Mazdamundi's mount is not impossible to kill, and neither is Mazdamundi, but they are both very tough indeed... I think his cost is about right, but yes, all the other seems overpriced or just plain bad...

By the way, as far as I can tell, when you shoot you only hit Mazadamundi on a 6? Or does he just follow the normal rules for big mounts and is hit on a 5+?

slingersam
24-03-2009, 19:51
Never felt any of the special characters were worth it.
But I'm wondering now Is their a model for Mazdamundi,
or do I have to buy another stegidon, and attach a Slann
Mage Priest to it. He seems like a good idea so I might
give him a try. (never was a fan of SC)

jax40kplyr1
24-03-2009, 20:14
In my opinion, none of the lizardmen special characters are really worth it, as they are bound by the same problems as other specials - expensive and non-customizeable. If you take a normal slann, you can customize him with items, disciplines, etc. Lord Kroak - he only has 1 spell - boy that really hurts when it gets stolen. Kroq'qar - not too bad, but he's extremely expensive and is extremely vulnerable to whiffing in combat and breaking. Mazdamundi - sure he comes on a steg, but I'd rather take a TG unit to shelter the slann in than anything else. The saurus special characters are a joke - 300 points for a 2 wound hero? Plus does anyone else notice that the other special guy (super shield one), has basically a great weapon but gets no Str bonus from it?
The skink characters are a little better, but not worth it in my opinion.

Kal Taron
24-03-2009, 23:02
Really funny is that TG special character. He makes all enemies strike always last but when you realize that he has a great weapon and initiative 3 this isn't that impressive after all. Unless he charges, then it is OK.

Necromancy Black
24-03-2009, 23:09
The only half decent 2 are chakax and Tiktakto but frankly I'll never field either as they just cost too much for what they do.

someone2040
25-03-2009, 05:03
The problem with the Slann special characters is
Kroak can have his spell destroyed.
Given that everyone wants the extra power dice to cast spells (And Mazda has an extra high cost spell to boot), Mazdamundi has limiited power dice to mess around with. He doesn't have his Itxi Grubs anymore, so doesn't have any way to boost his casting ability.

Essentially, he is worth his points. However, most people want to dominate the magic phase with a Slann, so he doesn't look as good. When you start adding in comp scores in tournaments (Especially ones that limit power dice that can be used per turn) then Mazdamdundi starts looking better again, as he's a pretty hard to kill tarpit (Re-Rollable stubborn leadership 9, nice.)

Kroq-Gar isn't too bad I feel, but the rest are generally overpriced, or just don't pack enough punch. Tehenhauin just needs to be magic level 3 I feel, as 2 spells (1 which is almost useless to him) just isn't enough.

Oxyotl is interesting, in that he'd be useful to take out warmachines. He isn't good at character sniping due to his limited range and only 2 shots with his blowpipe. He's too expensive at 180 points to throw away as well.

They could've done a lot better with the characters, but, this is just the way things go. At the very least, I feel, they did a good job in making all the characters interesting. They just didn't manage to balance them.

Nicha11
25-03-2009, 05:12
The Astro skink and Gor-Rok are the best of the bunch IMHO.

Kroak is excellent when combined with Astro Skink.

I would never take Tiq'tak'Toe (or whatever) as he is ridiculously expensive for nothing.

stiggie
15-05-2009, 18:46
i might sound pretty stupid but i think the characters are worth their price..

Chakax has the helmet that stops people from scouting within 20" of him, extremely useful against cheese wood elf/dark elves/fanatics, 4 Strength 7 hits re-rolling to hit and he's just a hero? plus his mace makes all magic weapons become normal ones when attacking him basically making all the points people have put into tooling up their characters useless.

gor-rok is a hero with a 2+ save in combat and the opponent has to re-roll all successful to hit rolls. and gor rok can re roll all to hit rolls on the first round of combat.

tetto'eko has teklis's effect but gives it to the whole army and for less points and lets you re deploy units giving you a strategic advantage

tiktaqtoe ignores armour saves and allows a unit of terradons come in from any table edge increasing their survivability. (i think he'd be better on his own though for cannon hunting)

LKHERO
16-05-2009, 01:32
In a recent game of 5k High Elves vs. Lizardmen, in the first round of the game, my Teclis managed to kill Mazdamundi with an IF Pit of Shades and Scroll of Hoeth Lord Kroak.

I just find it hysterical that Teclis managed to solo two of the most powerful modern day magical beings (who are arguably above him in the world of magic).

StarFyreXXX
16-05-2009, 06:11
There was a thread like this some time ago:

My comments from using most of the characters several times:

Kroq-Gar - he is ok but too expensive..come on, he's almost as much as taking Archaon (who is just 45 pts more AND 100x better)... but keep in mind, a lot of his cost is the carnosaur...he is only 410 or so pts...still too much IMHO...he is good against weaker units but struggles against anything better...against powerful enemy...i've never had him do well. Against enemy lords (chaos, vampires, daemons, elves)..he always dies but the carnosaur can survive and maybe do ok..but it needs 5s to hit most decent things in the game..so it really doesn't do as much as people expect.

Kroak - not very good at all....his spell is good BUT it can be destroyed for some stupid reason. As well, even on 2 dice....getting the 10+ isn;'t that easy...so realiably, you probably will only get the spell off twice/turn.. Unless facing elves, (T3), you won;t do enough with his spell to make him worth it. Cause the temple guard can become unbreakable with him, yes, it will take time to get through to him..which is good...but he's very situational..against some armmies, he's great..against the top tier armies (daemons and vampires)...he doesn't do that well as people would expect. I feel disappointed with him....Archaon got 200 pts cheaper AND better from 6E to 7E, yet our most legendary character and the most powerful caster in the world ever (when he was alive)...he got changed so he's not even close. I think making him 800 pts and doing up his rules would have made him more useful, even though more costly.

Mazdamundi - again....weakness is his stegadon..it's really not THAT hard to kill. Now, i have killed archaon with him (maz gets to go first and if he hits..needing a 6, he can destroy enemy weapon, so then i had an armour save vs archaon and i broke him and ran him down)...but that is super rare. His spell is very weak compared to the 6E ruination....again, would have preferred him closer to his 6E trial rules version, with his custom lore but oh well. If enemy doesn't have anything for big creature,s yes, he becomes very hard to kill...but most armies now days don't have much issues with a dinosaur. When the dino dies, mazdamundi goes back to palanquin... Also, it's sad that he's a BSB, which counts as magical YET it has no actual power. we couldn't even get a built in warbanner? we got a magical item that does nothing??!?! wtf.

Chakax...he is cool BUT he needs to be more expensive and a bit better. He really needs to act like a nullstone vs all enemy items; not just weapons. let me explain: being the most expensive and arguably most overall powerful hero in WH, opponents do NOT send crappy units vs it. I've had every lord unit you can think of sent towards him..chaos lords, vampire,s tomb kings, ogre tyrants, etc. He gets raped by these lords. No one sends some minor hero to face him. PRoblem then becomes, you spend so much pts, for a model tha has to challenge and will die. Since most lords are only good due to their items, if he nullsstoned everthing but was more expensive, at least you know that he has a chance to live and your pts aren't wasted.
Against units with no lords..yes he rocks in TG.

Tetto'eko...not impressed..even with 3 dice, it's not that easy to cast comet (never cast it once in 3 games). He really deserves to be lvl 3...he is good in a kroak army where he can use kroak's dice...but other than that..not great.

Gor-rok..used him..pretty good for his cost but nothing special.

Sanjay

Kill-Freedom
16-05-2009, 10:32
Compared to DOC specail chars, lizards suck lol

dsw1
16-05-2009, 10:53
Gor-Rok - The bane of Knights/chariots. Sure, the chances of him killing them are slim, but Stubborn LD8 no charge bonuses, and have him in range of the BSB and he will be near impossible to break. He could hold up a unit of knights double his points for an entire game.

I suppose his down side is his lack of Immune to psychology and His shield not effecting the unit his is with (C'mon FAQ! Don't let me down!). But, combine him with a slann with the Lore of light (or which ever lore can make a character Immune to psychology) and you have effectively a model that can single handedly hold up a stank all game ;)

Feefait
19-05-2009, 21:03
I played with Tetto'ekko my first few games as he seemed the mos tinteresting. He really did very little, and nothing spectacular. First game I messed up and got him shot turn 2. NExt game he allowed some irresistible's on small, largely insignificant spells. I did not take him last game as I was starting to think him overcosted. BUT after getting stomped and failing almost every magic roll, even with the extra pd on my slann I really wanted him. The redeploy would have been huge as my opponent pulled out a last minute surprise and my deployment was terrible. I think he has become a mainstay, even at 255.

yarrickson
19-05-2009, 22:47
I have played several 3k games with both Kroak and Mazdamundi, and really you couldnt ask for easier victories. Played Chaos, skaven and empire. Kroaks guard unitis one of the hardest things in the game. Unbreakable, same save as ironbreakers and with the totem of prophecy so they cause fear. In the first game afainst chaos, 20warriors of nurgle turned and ran rather than actually charge it. heh. Mazdamundi is immense, if only because he is faster than other slaan. This means he can always be in the right place to cast his spells. Lore of death is probably my fave sofar I do get dissapointed looks from the staff in my store when i use them, but i simply point out that its technically not as cheesy as two more regular slaan. argument won.

CommissarSean
19-05-2009, 23:41
Chakkax is the TG special character is the most overpriced hero i have EVER seen and hes crap

Shamfrit
20-05-2009, 00:33
His only let down is 2 wounds as opposed to 3, but otherwise he's a Lord in every respect that doesn't take up a Lord slot.

StarFyreXXX
20-05-2009, 01:12
He is NOT a lord....trustme...from using chakax...he;'s been charged by many lords and dies.. He just doesn't have a good enough save to handle lords and 2 wounds.

I think my assessmentof him would make him more useful to use so people would actually bother.

Sanjay

TheMav80
20-05-2009, 07:50
It would depend on the lord wouldn't it? Turning all magic weapons into mundane weapons seems like a great boon. So only great weapon or lance wielding foes would be a real threat. Or so it seems to me.

A super fighty Vampire Lord could certainly do it...but then who can't those kill? A Vamp Lord with Infinite Hatred, Red Fury, Dread Knight, Dread Lance, and Crown of the Damned is going to probably smash right through your Oldblood as well. Even more easily since all those Lance hits will do so automatically.

Necromancy Black
20-05-2009, 08:02
Chakax is definitely Lord level. But he isn't at the level of a 300+ point Lord, and that is the problem.