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Dr. Hellbeast
24-03-2009, 16:30
Hi,

I often thought it would be interesting to see another human faction in the 40K universe, free of Chaotic or Imperial affiliations. My question to you all is simply: how would you do it?

What philosophy, social structure, technologies, etc, would you like to see?

Sir_Lunchalot
24-03-2009, 19:31
Squats. They're abhumans from high grav worlds. Not Imperial, not chaos, although they have worked with the Imperium in the past.

x-esiv-4c
24-03-2009, 19:33
I second the squat initiative.

djinn8
24-03-2009, 19:38
Human's who have turned to the Greater Good perhaps.

vampires are cool!
24-03-2009, 19:51
A race of men devolved into techo sausages! Each one floats on a bun shaped anti-grav seat, covered in a nitrogen rich red 'sause' that helps sustain them outside their normal habitat. They float through the air armed with their powerful sent glands, entising the enemy forward to be violently attacked and consumed by the floating sausage people.

In tearms of a hiarachy or goverment, i would propose that they live in family 'strings' and are united in the common cause of maintaining their worlds heat sourses, keeping the sands baking hot and full of the grease of their departed breathern. They are not ruled in any real sense, but family 'strings' will band together to form a 'weiner assault force.'

Other than their anit-grav technology they scavinge from other races, the largest of their kind even being able to utillise the symbiote weaponry of the tyranids, interfacing the neural links of the weapon with their red 'sause' although this peractise is frowned on as it interfears with the taste - and thats how they comunicate. They lick each other, exchanging information in the form of pheramones and special grease glands.

And if I think of anymore information on these sausage people, I will let you all know.

Count de Monet
24-03-2009, 19:58
For a mainline human faction, the big thing for me is that you have to have a mechanism in place to deal with the warp/chaos. If regular humans, cults and whatnot would certainly try to take hold and psykers would naturally emerge (which they would need for navigators/astropaths etc as well), so need something in place to deal with those issues. The Imperium has the =I= and so on, this new faction would need something to fulfill that same function, even if they go about it in another way. If they ignore it, eventually they'll be just another subset of Chaos.

decker_cky
24-03-2009, 20:00
Genestealer cult much?

Khornate Fireball (Ork)
24-03-2009, 20:18
Kamina's Gurren Brigade, obviously!

But if I were being serious, I would probably say some humans who broke away from the Imperium because they don't like the Inquisition and the fact that, let's face it: The Imperium are a bunch of jerks.

sliganian
24-03-2009, 20:23
Kamina's Gurren Brigade, obviously!

But if I were being serious, I would probably say some humans who broke away from the Imperium because they don't like the Inquisition and the fact that, let's face it: The Imperium are a bunch of jerks.

Yeah! They could were brown shirts and fly nifty looking starships (that look kinda like, I dunno, a FIREFLY).

The force org would an eclectic mix of freedom fighters, prostitutes and priests-who-are-really-maybe-former-assassins, but-we-are-never-told-that-because-the series-ends-too-soon.

Oberst Viktor Morte
24-03-2009, 20:25
And if I think of anymore information on these sausage people, I will let you all know.

I lol'd verily.


Check out the link in my signature. Codex: Kae'Moda Republic

It's a non-Imperial, non-Chaos human faction of my own design that I've been working on for forever. Haven't worked on it in like two or three weeks though, I'm falling behind! :eek:

Marshal Sinclair
24-03-2009, 20:25
Undiscovered Golden Age of Technology humans, embarking on a Great Crusade to unite the galaxy under human rule, only to find that humans already control vast parts of the galaxy. These lost humans approach the Imperium, but when they realise the Imperium wouldn't accept them back into the fold without giving up most of their technology and ideology decide the Imperium can stick it, and went away building an empire of their own elsewhere. This race would of course make use of technologically advanced psychers, many robots and all the good stuff from the GAOT/DAOT.

Templar Ben
24-03-2009, 20:52
Rogue Traders (Rouge Traders are more common on Warseer but red)

They would have a wide range of technology available as they trade with other races.

Adeptus Mechanicus would be a lot of fun as well.

Perfect Organism
24-03-2009, 21:15
I really wouldn't want to see a non-chaos, non-imperial, non-xenos-enslaved (or at least xenos-dominated, like the humans under the Tau) human faction. Firstly because it would be a waste of resources which could be used to do the Lost and the Damned, secondly because the necrons have soured me to the concept of new stuff being added to the setting rather than exisitng cool stuff being better emphasised and detailed (the Iron Men were already in the flaming background... why do you need to invent a more boring race of robots?) and finally, because it undermines what I consider to be a major theme: that the Imperium, terrible as it may be, is ultimately right and that there is no nice alternative.

If it's possible for humans to avoid chaos corruption and extermination by aliens without being a xenophobic, brutal, paranoid, totalitarian state, then all the heros of the Imperium are no longer heroic, but rather just deluded fools fighting for a lie. 40k, in my opinion, is all about having to make the best of a bad situation, where you have to do terrible things in order to achieve even a little good. If you don't actually have to do those terrible things, then it isn't really the same, is it?

Still, the OP asked for a human faction 'free of Chaotic or Imperial affiliations', so I guess I can still choose genestealer cults, which at least don't detract from what I see as the essential elements of the setting.

Awilla the Hun
24-03-2009, 21:32
Glorious Comrade Chairman Tchiaskovy wishes to make it known to all the oppressed proletariat of the galaxy that The People's Most Democratic Republic of Rakarskia is available as another human faction. Yes, the army will be like the Imperial Guard, except:

-No chance of any sort of modern style force at all.
-Far more politicised. (Propaganda drops on both sides, the Commissars providing the "leadership bubbles", machine gun squads for Commissars to use.)
-Far more low tech (explosive shooting bolt action rifles-long ranged, powerful, but heavy weapons; lots, and lots of trench mortars, rifle grenades, and general gun based goodness rather than missiles.)
-Capable of advancing across the board (albiet very bloodily-I will try to make it so as they are capable of fielding Ork style hordes.)

See the Rules Development thread to learn more.

In aesthetic it will be different because: Imperium believes in religious doctrine and mysticism, Kae'Moda in technology and enlightenment, Rakarskia in brutal rationalism (insomuch that "it is a mage! Open fire, comrades!" is rationalism) and communist politics. Slightly more optimistic than the Imperium (they provide good meritocracy and social welfare), but only very, very slightly.

EDIT: or are they? Rakarskia does not have anything like the technological might or resources, both of manpower and material, of the Imperium. And they are almost as brutal. If these people are to inherit and defend the Workers of the Galaxy from Alien Imperialists and Chaotic Counter Revolutionaries, they have to advance pretty quickly.

Col. Tartleton
24-03-2009, 21:33
Non Imperial Human Factions?

All humans are part of the Imperium whether either side forgot or not...

What I would like to see are 5 IG books.

There are five loyalist marine books.

Codex: Ultramarines (CODEX)
Codex: Blood Angels (BLOODTHIRSTY)
Codex: Dark Angels (DEPRESSED)
Codex: Black Templars (ANGRY)
Codex: Space Wolves (DRUNK)

How is that nessacary when they are all codex give or take the names of their wargear and a single non fluff game factor and a couple of special units that could be taken as doctrines.

We need 5 IG Books.

Codex: "Imperial Armor" (An in depth series of lists describing various armored formations and units from Mechanized Infantry to Armor)
Codex: "Army of One" (An in depth look at the Infantry Based regiments from light infantry from Catachan to Mordians)
Codex: "For The Emperor" (An in depth look at crusade armies and their ad hoc formations and special place of the Ecclesiarchy in the Military)
Codex: "Between the Stars" (An in depth look the Navy in the ground wars of the Imperium from air assault units to 'Space Marines')
Codex: "The Thin Line" (An in depth view into the PDf's of the Imperium from the Napoleonic Guardians of low tech worlds to Cadia Kasrkin)

Zephro
24-03-2009, 21:57
Oh we used to do this all the time. We just assumed rebels didn't NEED to be chaos. You can just have worlds that rebel to have more democracy/communism/king/science or whatever.

Not that it needs a codex, not everything does.

Jokubas
24-03-2009, 23:01
Personally, I feel that the Imperium is a perfect example of the age-old fear of becoming the monster you fight, and if what happened to the Eldar is true, I wouldn't be surprised to find that the Imperium is on the verge of creating a new chaos god. A new Eye of Terror around Segmentum Solar that represents xenophobia, mercilessness, and servitude.

I'd like to see another human faction from a fluff perspective, but unless GW found a way to support more armies, I wouldn't want gameplay space used on it.

But this is just a what-if, so let's have fun!

I want to play humans allied with Tau, but if I had to make up my own human army, I wouldn't know what to choose.

souljaking09
24-03-2009, 23:16
they could be neutral and are just fighting for the right to live. Or they could be sort of like tau and fight for the greater good.

djinn8
24-03-2009, 23:22
I wouldn't be surprised to find that the Imperium is on the verge of creating a new chaos god. A new Eye of Terror around Segmentum Solar that represents xenophobia, mercilessness, and servitude.


You mean the Emperor?

Marshal Sinclair
24-03-2009, 23:36
The new Chaos God that the Imperium is slowly building is called the Star Child. When the Emperor finally kicks the bucket it will be born.

souljaking09
24-03-2009, 23:42
The new Chaos God that the Imperium is slowly building is called the Star Child. When the Emperor finally kicks the bucket it will be born.

I'm confused.:confused: You said the chaos god the imperium is building.:wtf:

Corrode
24-03-2009, 23:45
It's explained here. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Star_Child

Marshal Sinclair
24-03-2009, 23:50
A Chaos God is simply an entity of great strength deriving it's power from the warp. A Chaos God is a warp storm, litterally. A Chaos God isn't evil just because he is a Chaos God. Some are evil, some are nice, some don't really care. Somewhere there is a Chaos God of feeling kinda warm inside because your girlfriend is a great kisser, just as Khorne is the Chaos God of Martial Honour (amongst other things).

If the Imperium builds a Chaos God from it's collective emotions I imagine it would be the Chaos God of Hard Work, or some such, as that is about all the vast majority of the Imperium do - work long hours for no return.

tuebor
24-03-2009, 23:53
It's explained here. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Star_Child

I never did like the whole Sensei/Star Child thing.

Marshal Sinclair
24-03-2009, 23:56
It's one of the only original bits of 40k fluff. Everything else is generic sci-fi stuff all mangled together.

tuebor
25-03-2009, 00:04
It's one of the only original bits of 40k fluff. Everything else is generic sci-fi stuff all mangled together.

Yeah, but most sci-fi these days is just a mish-mash of other generic sci-fi stuff. I guess I prefer my 40k to be more hopeless and grimdark. To each his own, of course.

Corrode
25-03-2009, 00:04
I never did like the whole Sensei/Star Child thing.

I really like it. It fits in nicely with all the darkness of 40k - the Emperor is encased in the Golden Throne and only by keeping him 'alive' can the Imperium continue to function (and the Imperium existing is pretty much all that stands between trillions of humans and a messy death), but at the same keeping him alive prevents humanity from moving into a new golden age led by a reborn Emperor. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation which makes the whole setting a touch more grim.

Marshal Sinclair
25-03-2009, 00:09
The Sensei may be the Imperiums one true hope of salvation, yet most of them don't know what they are, and neither does the Imperium (and so tries to kill them thinking they are agents of Chaos). Even those within the Imperium who know what they are want to kill them to stop them unbalancing the system. How is that not "grim dark"? Going out of your way to destroy your one hope of salvation.

Magelite
25-03-2009, 01:05
The Star child is no longer canon IIRC, and was either re-named or replaced by the thorian resurrection.

I'd like to see an advanced transhumanist society that uses legions of artifical abhuman slaves, like the AdMech gone wrong.

Serg. Lynchbox
25-03-2009, 02:31
Armies:
Star Wars: rebels and the Stormtrooper story, not the models....or yes the models? hmmm
Battlestar Galactica: use their background
Unified Earth force: all the countries get along and explore the universe (Startrek?)
Tau militia force: explains it already
Democracy planet: Some poor planet that believes in democracy before they find out what SM are.

Just read some 40k novels and you can get some cool ideas

Ddraiglais
25-03-2009, 06:53
What if some of the techno barbarians escaped Earth before the Emperor unified it?

Edonil
25-03-2009, 06:56
What were they called...The Interex? Or whoever they were. Ya know, the ones from Horus Rising. They'd be interesting.

Gorbad Ironclaw
25-03-2009, 10:18
Actually what I'd do is kill the Emperor and fracture the Imperium into seperate 'states'.

Space Marines drop the silly size restrictions in the Codex and expand to a proper size to help control/protect the area around there homeworld. Chapters like the Unforgiven stop pretending and just resume operating as a legion. The Ultramarines gather other chapters to there banner and expand the region of there little empire, creation a fairly well run Empire on the Eastern rim of the galaxy, etc.

The human worlds closet to Earth remains unified under Earth leadership continuing to venerate the Emperor, while furiously screaming at the rest of the galaxy to submit to there righteous rule.

Various Hive Worlds etc expands there influence over neighbouring systems to protect the resources they need. There military might is likely to be fairly similar, but you will see more local innovation and adaptation. Depending on the leadership that might include both alien tech and other things that would previously have been considered techno heresy.

The Adeptus Mechanicus for the most parts maintain contact between there Forge Worlds, but they drift further apart too as long range communication and travel become harder/more dangerous. Most would remain fairly close to the dictates from Mars, but some would split off and experiment etc.

yabbadabba
25-03-2009, 10:35
I am up for Codex Rebels - sounds ace. Could contain the basics of 40K Unplugged - using different weapons in your army other than what a codex tells you, USR upgrade costs e.t.c.

Also up for Codex Renegades - Pirates, Adeptus Biologis experimental armies (ork/human hybrids) e.t.c.

Finally a Human force from beyond the Astronomicon. Claiming to have been descended from the true Emperor and the Terran one is a usurper. Uses sound technology for wepons et al as it disrupts the psychic link with the warp - hence no Chaos influence. Loads of other ideas for this too.

Nicha11
25-03-2009, 10:38
I'd like to see a human race which were all possed by the demons of the god they worshipped.

Imagine being able to mutate to deel with battlefield objectives, enemy in cover your right arm becomes a flamethrower.
Enemy tank? I can shoot lightning from my nostrils (what you can't:confused:).

Marshal Sinclair
25-03-2009, 10:49
I'd like to see a human race which were all possed by the demons of the god they worshipped.

Imagine being able to mutate to deel with battlefield objectives, enemy in cover your right arm becomes a flamethrower.
Enemy tank? I can shoot lightning from my nostrils (what you can't:confused:).

Isn't that just the 2 lash prince, 9 oblit list?

Leogun_91
25-03-2009, 11:29
If it's possible for humans to avoid chaos corruption and extermination by aliens without being a xenophobic, brutal, paranoid, totalitarian state, then all the heros of the Imperium are no longer heroic, but rather just deluded fools fighting for a lie. 40k, in my opinion, is all about having to make the best of a bad situation, where you have to do terrible things in order to achieve even a little good. If you don't actually have to do those terrible things, then it isn't really the same, is it?I think survival IS possible in other ways and that both the Tau and the eldar proves it and that the heroes of the empire ARE fighting for a lie. The empire isnīt Good. It really isnīt good in anyway, I would actually prefer being eaten by Tyranids than to live in the empire (and Iīm a great coward). The common citizens would be better of under Tau, Eldar or democratic rule, the state is controlled by an emperor with an army of overzelous supersoldiers that are able to supress the rebbelions and freedomfighters or if an arm is too badly influenced...just exterminate it.
Good humans wouldnīt fit the setting but it would at least show that the imperium isnīt good.

I second codex rebells

Grimtuff
25-03-2009, 11:55
I really wouldn't want to see a non-chaos, non-imperial, non-xenos-enslaved (or at least xenos-dominated, like the humans under the Tau) human faction. Firstly because it would be a waste of resources which could be used to do the Lost and the Damned, secondly because the necrons have soured me to the concept of new stuff being added to the setting rather than exisitng cool stuff being better emphasised and detailed (the Iron Men were already in the flaming background... why do you need to invent a more boring race of robots?) and finally, because it undermines what I consider to be a major theme: that the Imperium, terrible as it may be, is ultimately right and that there is no nice alternative.

If it's possible for humans to avoid chaos corruption and extermination by aliens without being a xenophobic, brutal, paranoid, totalitarian state, then all the heros of the Imperium are no longer heroic, but rather just deluded fools fighting for a lie. 40k, in my opinion, is all about having to make the best of a bad situation, where you have to do terrible things in order to achieve even a little good. If you don't actually have to do those terrible things, then it isn't really the same, is it?


QFT.

This person here has spoken the only sensible words in this thread. If you dont like the way humans are portrayed in 40k then there are many other games where we're portrayed in a kinder light. Stop raping the background, The Imperium are a bunce of marauding interplanetary space nazis. This fits with 40k. Live with it.

If you are stretched to do it just play Tau as "counts as". Everything people have come up with resembles one 40k army or another in some way. Hell, even Genestealer Cults can be done with the Nid codex with a little imagination.

yabbadabba
25-03-2009, 12:13
QFT.

This person here has spoken the only sensible words in this thread. If you dont like the way humans are portrayed in 40k then there are many other games where we're portrayed in a kinder light. Stop raping the background, The Imperium are a bunce of marauding interplanetary space nazis. This fits with 40k. Live with it.

If you are stretched to do it just play Tau as "counts as". Everything people have come up with resembles one 40k army or another in some way. Hell, even Genestealer Cults can be done with the Nid codex with a little imagination.

Not sure where the sourness comes from Grimtuff. Thought this was just a laugh thread. Am I wrong?

Dr. Hellbeast
25-03-2009, 12:31
Not sure where the sourness comes from Grimtuff. Thought this was just a laugh thread. Am I wrong?

You are 100% not wrong, my friend. I didn't start this with any intentions of offending sensibilities or criticising existing GW background.

It was simply out of an idle interest in what others would do in this patently hypothetical situation.

Maybe a human faction that strictly adheres to existing GW fluff and robustly defends its integrity would fit elegantly into the 40K universe? :cries:

Templar Ben
25-03-2009, 12:38
I think survival IS possible in other ways and that both the Tau and the eldar proves it and that the heroes of the empire ARE fighting for a lie. The empire isnīt Good. It really isnīt good in anyway, I would actually prefer being eaten by Tyranids than to live in the empire (and Iīm a great coward). The common citizens would be better of under Tau, Eldar or democratic rule, the state is controlled by an emperor with an army of overzelous supersoldiers that are able to supress the rebbelions and freedomfighters or if an arm is too badly influenced...just exterminate it.
Good humans wouldnīt fit the setting but it would at least show that the imperium isnīt good.

I second codex rebells

You know you almost make the Imperium sound like something else. Let's see, you have a god emperor (on the throne for millennia) that controls his empire of humans (called the Imperium no less) by an iron fist. Unknown to everyone else he is doing that because he knows that is the only way to make humans want to rebel so that they will spread out beyond his reach so the humanity will survive long after the empire falls. He also has a secret group that is altering humans so that they are evolving (mutating) to give them greater powers to hide from psychics so that they can escape notice.

That would be a great book. In fact it is a great book called The God Emperor of Dune written about 6 years before Rogue Trader. Seriously guys, you should read more. :angel:

Leogun_91
25-03-2009, 13:12
You know you almost make the Imperium sound like something else. Let's see, you have a god emperor (on the throne for millennia) that controls his empire of humans (called the Imperium no less) by an iron fist. Unknown to everyone else he is doing that because he knows that is the only way to make humans want to rebel so that they will spread out beyond his reach so the humanity will survive long after the empire falls. He also has a secret group that is altering humans so that they are evolving (mutating) to give them greater powers to hide from psychics so that they can escape notice.

That would be a great book. In fact it is a great book called The God Emperor of Dune written about 6 years before Rogue Trader. Seriously guys, you should read more. :angel:Eh....I really didnīt say that, I really donīt think the god emperor is evolving the people and spreading rebbelions to aid mankind. He is a tyrant and acts as one.....only much more powerfull.

Akuma
25-03-2009, 13:20
Rouge Trader Style rebels - no tanks , fast army with human stats AND lods of alien elite auxilary units - Merc style force of bad ass former guardsman and all kind of scum. Thay fight only if attacked or can make profit from it.

Hack in Dark Heresy Campaign my players acctualy recruited a Demiurg mechanic for thayr starship :D

Clockwork-Knight
25-03-2009, 13:22
The God-Emperor in Wh40k is nothing but a dead husk where his spirit is forever bound to, unable to help mankind go towards its new stage of evolution protected.

Mankind won't survive in Wh40k. Even if they survived the onslaught of the barbaric orks, the reaping of the Necrons, the scouring from the Tyranids, mankind lies just some moments ahead before their transformation into a complete psychic race like the Orks or the Eldar. However, they are all attuned to the Fell Powers in the Warp, and when the great Change will happen, mankind will forever be damaned to the Ruinous Forces, even more than the Eldar.

Only the Emperor, strongest and most experienced psyker of humanity, has the knowledge to guide mankind through this transition.

However, he is trapped, and starchild or not, mankind won't survive anyway.

There is no hope, no future, no respite.

Templar Ben
25-03-2009, 13:52
Eh....I really didnīt say that, I really donīt think the god emperor is evolving the people and spreading rebbelions to aid mankind. He is a tyrant and acts as one.....only much more powerfull.

Just like the GEoD. Seriously if you read the book you can see that 40K was "strongly inspired" by it. I just gave a few items. He also has an army of Fish Speakers in the administrative branch. Silly name, sure. The thing is they are a new force compared to the older forces like Sardaukar and Fremen and they are entirely made up of women as the administrative branch can't have men under arms.

The main weapon used by the Imperial Army is even called a lasgun.

As far as humans becoming more mutated, that was suggested to be a plan in one of the old books. I am thinking it was RT but no doubt some fluffer will be able to post on that topic with more authority.


Rouge Trader Style rebels - no tanks , fast army with human stats AND lods of alien elite auxilary units - Merc style force of bad ass former guardsman and all kind of scum. Thay fight only if attacked or can make profit from it.

I agree with that. It would make for an interesting army.


The God-Emperor in Wh40k is nothing but a dead husk where his spirit is forever bound to, unable to help mankind go towards its new stage of evolution protected.

Mankind won't survive in Wh40k. Even if they survived the onslaught of the barbaric orks, the reaping of the Necrons, the scouring from the Tyranids, mankind lies just some moments ahead before their transformation into a complete psychic race like the Orks or the Eldar. However, they are all attuned to the Fell Powers in the Warp, and when the great Change will happen, mankind will forever be damaned to the Ruinous Forces, even more than the Eldar.

Only the Emperor, strongest and most experienced psyker of humanity, has the knowledge to guide mankind through this transition.

However, he is trapped, and starchild or not, mankind won't survive anyway.

There is no hope, no future, no respite.

That would depend on if the change you speak of happens before or after the Golden Throne fails.

Coragus
25-03-2009, 13:56
I don't want to see a single new race so much as I'd like to see a new "Universal Codex" for customization of armies. I'm not suggesting we go back to RT days, because we have a good rule set, and I'm not suggesting that existing armies or codexes go away. I'm just saying that in a galaxy as big as the 40K universe's, there must be a multitude of individual systems and/or races that may exist on one or two planets, and I'd like a way to explore that.

Dr. Hellbeast
25-03-2009, 14:49
I really wouldn't want to see a non-chaos, non-imperial, non-xenos-enslaved (or at least xenos-dominated, like the humans under the Tau) human faction. Firstly because it would be a waste of resources which could be used to do the Lost and the Damned, secondly because the necrons have soured me to the concept of new stuff being added to the setting rather than exisitng cool stuff being better emphasised and detailed (the Iron Men were already in the flaming background... why do you need to invent a more boring race of robots?) and finally, because it undermines what I consider to be a major theme: that the Imperium, terrible as it may be, is ultimately right and that there is no nice alternative.

If it's possible for humans to avoid chaos corruption and extermination by aliens without being a xenophobic, brutal, paranoid, totalitarian state, then all the heros of the Imperium are no longer heroic, but rather just deluded fools fighting for a lie. 40k, in my opinion, is all about having to make the best of a bad situation, where you have to do terrible things in order to achieve even a little good. If you don't actually have to do those terrible things, then it isn't really the same, is it?

Still, the OP asked for a human faction 'free of Chaotic or Imperial affiliations', so I guess I can still choose genestealer cults, which at least don't detract from what I see as the essential elements of the setting.

Just because these Imperial heroes' labours may be at odds with certain points of view it doesn't take anything away from them, whether they are viewed as misguided or not.

To paraphrase Joseph Campbell, just because you don't agree with the cause that invokes a particular act, it doesn't detract from the inherent heroism of the act.

Every hero is a villain to somebody.

captainramoz
25-03-2009, 14:51
Iīll say rogue traders or a republic of free systems.
Or maibe the renegade 11 marine legion

Corrode
25-03-2009, 14:52
I think survival IS possible in other ways and that both the Tau and the eldar proves it and that the heroes of the empire ARE fighting for a lie. The empire isnīt Good. It really isnīt good in anyway, I would actually prefer being eaten by Tyranids than to live in the empire (and Iīm a great coward). The common citizens would be better of under Tau, Eldar or democratic rule, the state is controlled by an emperor with an army of overzelous supersoldiers that are able to supress the rebbelions and freedomfighters or if an arm is too badly influenced...just exterminate it.
Good humans wouldnīt fit the setting but it would at least show that the imperium isnīt good.

I second codex rebells

That's ignoring large parts of the background though. Tau survive because they have a minimal warp presence - Tau don't (as far as I'm aware) have psykers, except maybe the Ethereals. Chaos isn't nearly the threat to them that it is to humans because it's much harder for a daemon to get its mental claws into the Tau. On top of that, Tau society actually mirrors Imperial society more closely than people tend to think - sure, Tau talk about the Greater Good and invite the xenos in freely, but their entire social structure is based on repressive control and manipulation (and they're quite happy to blast the aliens in the face with a railgun if they don't play by the Tau's rules).

Eldar are the opposite - they have many more psykers, on average, and they're much more powerful, but they're also hugely more experienced with the Warp and what with having created Slaanesh they're much, much more careful about it. On top of which, they're extremely arrogant - Eldar literally do not care the tiniest bit about any life form which isn't another Eldar. That and they're relatively isolated - each Craftworld is self-sufficient and self-contained. Humans in Craftworld-sized colonies would be slaughtered, which is why the Imperium has to exist at all. You can't really compare the three factions and say 'Tau/Eldar are better'.

tuebor
25-03-2009, 15:19
The Sensei may be the Imperiums one true hope of salvation, yet most of them don't know what they are, and neither does the Imperium (and so tries to kill them thinking they are agents of Chaos). Even those within the Imperium who know what they are want to kill them to stop them unbalancing the system. How is that not "grim dark"? Going out of your way to destroy your one hope of salvation.

I really don't like the idea of having even that one hope of salvation. I like the idea that the Imperium is the least worst option for humanity and no matter what anyone does humanity will fall.

Lordmonkey
25-03-2009, 17:34
A human psyker race, hailing from a world seperated before the crusade where psychic ability has become the norm and is regarded as a gift, rather than a curse.

Combine this with Tau-level technology and you have Akira firing a railgun with his brain. That would rock.

Sir_Lunchalot
25-03-2009, 17:45
Lordmonkey, you should add "before turning into a great unclean one and killing everyone he ever knew, loved, or saw."

Oberst Viktor Morte
25-03-2009, 18:40
I thought this was a thread about non-Imperial human factions, not a thread on 'why my view on 40K is best.' :|

sliganian
25-03-2009, 18:47
Combine this with Tau-level technology and you have Akira firing a railgun with his brain. That would rock.

:confused:

Yeah, because the what the back story REALLY needs is more "anime". :rolleyes:

Just imagine the sculpts for the new figure range. Eyes the size of quarters, hair as tall at the model and mouths the width of a mouse hair.

Buddha777
25-03-2009, 19:03
Non-imperial human faction. High tech, psychic, alien allies, and decidedly un-imperial. Fights like a mix between Tau and sister's of battle.

Even cooler, this force is led by a lost primarch to see contrast between emperor's original vision of humanity and what the burgeoning bureaucracy has turned it into.

Marshal Sinclair
25-03-2009, 21:11
I really don't like the idea of having even that one hope of salvation. I like the idea that the Imperium is the least worst option for humanity and no matter what anyone does humanity will fall.

There must always be hope. If there is nothing to compare the despair to it just becomes childish.

Corrode
25-03-2009, 21:24
There must always be hope. If there is nothing to compare the despair to it just becomes childish.

Agreed. The whole universe just becomes an exercise in who can find the most trite synonyms for LOL YOU'RE ALL DOOMED if there's no hope. Having a single, much-needed but pretty much unattainable way for the galaxy to survive is much better, because you can actually give your heroes setbacks and progress rather than just 'oh lol, you killed a million Orks but GUESS WHAT THERE'S MORE HAHA YOU'RE ALL ****ED'.

Gazak Blacktoof
25-03-2009, 23:38
I'd like to see a nid or necon cult book.

Clockwork-Knight
26-03-2009, 00:12
Warhammer 40k is a childish game. That's why we like it. ;)

Moar duum pleaze ktxbye. :D

Imperius
26-03-2009, 00:23
Rogue Traders/Warriors/ etc...

People who want nothing to do with the war, so the bought the biggest and baddest self-sufficient ship with enough Lascannons to make even the slow Orks wonder if its a good idea to raid them.

Fluff-wise, they would just drift, around. Get to close, get the cr$p blown out of you.

Gamewise, they would use lots and lots of heavy weapons, but little or none heavy tanks. At best a Valkyrie or Sentinel.

AntiPaladin
26-03-2009, 04:54
This is actually an idea I've been kicking around for a couple years, and was inspired to revisit it thanks to reading the Horus series. I've actually got much more detail background filed away somewhere:

When Mankind first began colonizing the stars, serveral forms of Faster Than Light travel, besides Warp travel, were also experimented with. One of them showed great promise in small scale experiments, and a full-scale colony ship was built. What wasn't realized is that human psyches have a minute effect on the transit - nothing odd was noticed with the test crews, but the 5000+ members of the colony ship vastly altered the intended course, sending the ship hundreds of thousands of light years off-course into the deep galactic South.

Upon arriving, they did the only thing they could - began a colony. Abundant natural resources allowed them to quickly flourish, and soon they began setting up colonies on other worlds and expaning their domain. Being from Terra, they still remembered the past, and still followed an antique form of government known as a "Republic" with officials ellected to positions in government based such as local, regional, national, continental, planetary, solar, etc.

Being isolated in an unknown realm of space, the colonists looked for any advantages they could find. In addition to their love of science and technology, they embraced the emerging psychic mutants eagerly, and applied the same level of scientific investigation they did to all things. When some began to become infested by Warp-Space Based Lifeforms, no expense was spared and no research forbidden until, in a relativly brief period, regiments of psycho-conditioning, along with cybernetic inhibitor controls, could free the new psykers from the danger of infestation. Thus the psychic population was allowed not only to live, but to grow and flourish.

That was in M.20. Since then, this society, calling itself The Human Alliance, has grown and expanded to occupy hundreds of thousands of worlds. Fully 95% of the population displays some form of psychic ability. The entire population is educated, literate, and engaged in government at some level. Their incredible grasp of technology and science allows them to continue expanding at a constant rate while their massive armies of warrior-scholars, based on the ancient Nipponese, constantly patrol their borders for any external threats.

Essentially, they are the society the Emperor sought to create. Not sure how it would work out gamewise, probably be similar to an all termie list.

Leogun_91
26-03-2009, 07:57
That's ignoring large parts of the background though. Tau survive because they have a minimal warp presence - Tau don't (as far as I'm aware) have psykers, except maybe the Ethereals. Chaos isn't nearly the threat to them that it is to humans because it's much harder for a daemon to get its mental claws into the Tau. On top of that, Tau society actually mirrors Imperial society more closely than people tend to think - sure, Tau talk about the Greater Good and invite the xenos in freely, but their entire social structure is based on repressive control and manipulation (and they're quite happy to blast the aliens in the face with a railgun if they don't play by the Tau's rules).

Eldar are the opposite - they have many more psykers, on average, and they're much more powerful, but they're also hugely more experienced with the Warp and what with having created Slaanesh they're much, much more careful about it. On top of which, they're extremely arrogant - Eldar literally do not care the tiniest bit about any life form which isn't another Eldar. That and they're relatively isolated - each Craftworld is self-sufficient and self-contained. Humans in Craftworld-sized colonies would be slaughtered, which is why the Imperium has to exist at all. You can't really compare the three factions and say 'Tau/Eldar are better'.
I did not say Tau or Eldar are better but simply that they prove that there are other ways to survive (and the reason I chosed those factions is beacouse humanity actually could use versions of their systems of survival which can not be said for Orks, Nids or Necrons) and the fact that Eldar and Tau does it differently shows that it can be done differently and a system that cares for the common man would maybe be possible.