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megatrons2nd
25-03-2009, 22:20
I am not particularly fond of Space Marines. However, Years ago I read a WD article about the Black dragons and thought they sounded cool. Do/did they ever have rules for their (I think) Dragonkin members?

Their Black Carapace was supposed to have mutated blades on the arms and ridges on the heads and such. From what I remember they were treated like the Wolfen or Death Company.

Which rules would you use in the absence of rules for them?

JLBeady
25-03-2009, 22:23
From what I remember they were treated like the Wolfen or Death Company.

Which rules would you use in the absence of rules for them?

I think you have answered your own question. Either the OOP Space Wolves codex (new one is supposedly coming out later this year) or Blood Angels Death Company...........(edit) reflecting on your question some more I would say Space Wolves.

Galatan
25-03-2009, 22:33
Black Dragons are a chapter from the 13th founding, also know as the cursed founding (which the fire hawks were also a part of).

The black dragons curse represents a mutation in their black carapace and some kind of other organ(don't remember which one), which leads to excessive bone growth in the form of crests and blades. Black Dragons often sharpen these blades and the most extreme cases form special assault squads who are just as capable fighting with a chainsword as with the sharpend blades on their fore arms. Note: Wulfen and Death company are members bordering on the edge of insanity, black dragons are not. Best chance is using the blood angels codex because of their higher rate of assault squads. You could represent the death company as the most extreme cases (maybe they have a deathwish or see it a personal duty to get into the fray) and normal assault squads containing members with a more stable mutation.

The black dragons had a small article written about them in a WD (I have it somewhere......), but I can't remember the number, maybe somebody else knows....

EDIT: In the WD article they had an unique unit, but IMHO you're better off with a current codex.

AbyssRaven
25-03-2009, 22:34
Honestly, i would use them as Vanguard Veterans since they fit the description well.

SimonL
25-03-2009, 22:43
I'd love to see a Black Dragons army. No official rules AFAIK, but Space Wolves or Blood Angels would make an awesome rules alternative. Alternately, just add the bone blades to your assault squads...

Tazok
25-03-2009, 23:06
Honestly they don't need special rules.

sabre4190
25-03-2009, 23:11
If you did want to do something to give them a tiny bit of an edge, consider using CSM. CSM squads have bolters, ccw, and pistols, so that could represent their spikes and such. Other than that, if you stick to stuff you would find in a loyalist list I wouldnt have a problem with it in any way. Raptors are similar enough to assault marines as well.

But, it is possible to not give them the more deadly bones sticking out on tactical squads and just keep them as normal. You could then consider using vanguard veterans instead of assault marines, where the extra attack represents their talons.

megatrons2nd
26-03-2009, 02:23
I haven't bought the new marine codex yet. How are the Vangaurd Veterans put in(elite, fast attack)? Can they take jump packs? Are there limits to their use?

SimonL
26-03-2009, 02:37
They have some cool rules but are very expensive.

20 points each base with CC and bolt pistol, plus 10 each fo JPs. They have a Deepstrike and Assault special rule. Tons of weapon options too..

mattschuur
26-03-2009, 02:52
They had rules also in the old Chapter Approved 2004, and an army list. Basically they had light rending, which is to say rolls of 6 to hit auto wounded with no save but had no effect on vehicles.

Also, it was only allowed on Assault squads and on a unit called Abominations. I'd use them as vanguard vets or as death company, which would be more practical.

matt schuur

NightrawenII
26-03-2009, 08:27
^^True.
Name of special Asssault Squad: Dragon Claws.

Leftenant Gashrog
26-03-2009, 13:48
Black Dragons are a chapter from the 13th founding, also know as the cursed founding (which the fire hawks were also a part of).


Spot on except for the number ~ Cursed Founding was the 21st, 13th was the Dark Founding.

Galatan
26-03-2009, 15:14
Spot on except for the number ~ Cursed Founding was the 21st, 13th was the Dark Founding.

Crap, something really bugged me when I was writing that down :P .

BTW thnx to the people who noted it was chapter approved 2004, since luckily I still have a 2004 CA Compendium :P . Anyhow, the mutating organ is also know as the ossmodula. Which is logical since this organ releases hormones that stimulate bone growth, but in the case of black dragons, stimulates it even more. Uptill now the black dragons were able to pass all the genetic purity tests, but the adaptus mech suspects that they are getting their gene seed from another source, since with their current mutations passing the tests would be almost impossible. The dragon claws often put layers of adamantium on their blades to further increase potential. In game terms this was simply rending without the ability to hurt tanks.

Even though the new marine codex is also fine, I still think blood angels would better represent the black dragons. Their codex isn't that bad as some would make you believe and the death guard are ideal for representing the dragon claws (rending and every member in a squad having an extreme mutation). Blood angels have access to some fantastic squads: Veteran assault squads and honour guard (which in terms of equipment are practically equal to vanguard marines), Death company, baal predator, furioso dreadnought and some great special characters. Also blood angels still have access to rites battle, which IMHO is one of the best marines rules ever.

Anyways good luck :).

BTW the dark founding, I remember that the details of the dark founding are almost completely unknown, but wasn't their something else about that founding that made it so....'dark' :rolleyes:.

megatrons2nd
27-03-2009, 03:53
Is the Blood Angels Death Company still a random roll or are they purchased now?

Born Again
27-03-2009, 09:32
BTW the dark founding, I remember that the details of the dark founding are almost completely unknown, but wasn't their something else about that founding that made it so....'dark' :rolleyes:.

IIRC, the only other thing we really know about the Dark Founding is the Exorcists come from there.

BigRob
27-03-2009, 09:46
Is the Blood Angels Death Company still a random roll or are they purchased now?

Pop over to GW website, last time I checked the blood angels codex was a free PDF download.