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Ravensgard
26-03-2009, 16:48
Well, I'm a fan of making my own fluff in the 40k and I was wondering how everybody here thought of "home made" special characters.

I mean, they still have to be fluffy and not like "i win the game alone because I'm a god of war", no, just a captian that has a special perk because of some experience or because he is a local hero or something.

for example : I want an Inquisitor that is called "Knight-Captain of the Inquisitoral Stormtroopers". The guy is practically the head of the inquisitoral stormtroopers and when he is called to battle he arrives in a valkyre with a squad of stormtroopers who are, as long as the captain is alive, stubborn (no decrease whatsoever when taking leadership tests).

Costs: you have to take a valkyre and play it in reserve, and the captain costs the same as an inquisitor with an add +25 points for the stubborn thing he gives. You can arm him the way you want with the costs in the codex.

I have this also with a squad : my veteran squad (models are vostroyans) are all guys aging 35 and up and all have at least 25 years of war experience, therefor they have BS4 and WS 4 and their weapons (because they are superbly crafted) are twinlinked. cost for this squad : 170 points for 10 men armed with lasguns, 1 plasma gun, 1 heavy bolter, 1 grenade launcher, 1 plasmapistol and powerweapon and all have carparace armor.

over the top, nicely balanced or "hell no"

Arre there also other people who "invent" stuff like this or will I be crusified no by the inquisition?

x-esiv-4c
26-03-2009, 17:03
It's your game, do what you want.
If your opponent says no, then leave it at that.

Some people have a dire hard-on against non-codex units, personally if you tell me ahead of time, and it's not too far off the wall i'll probably allow it.

Necrothrall
26-03-2009, 17:14
I'm all up for people making up rules for units, provinding they're not over the top though. I find it adds a little extra depth in campaigns and apocalypse games.

I like your inquisitor, he isn't over the top and is very reasonably costed.

The veteran squad doesn't seem over powered, but I'm not sure about the points cost, its been a while since I looked at my imperial guard codex.

I'm thinking of making some up too. I was toying with the idea of a tech-priest with the obliterator virus for my taitor guard. Basically an obliterator that can fix tanks. I'm still toying with the idea.

Noserenda
26-03-2009, 17:35
Stubborn guy looks ok, the veterans not so much...

Its also a case of Believability, an I-Stormtrooper officer having stubborn is reasonable, a bunch of random Volstoyan veterans inexplicably being better than other IG veterans and packing twin linked weapons is considerably less so.

Possibly having WS 4 instead of BS 4?

Somerandomidiot
26-03-2009, 17:55
I really like the Inquisitor you've made, that's a very logical and reasonable character. As for the veterans, it's easy to do some simple math (this is all from the old IG codex, as I don't know any points costs from the new one):

10 Hardened Veterans (WS3 BS4) with your 1 plasma gun, 1 heavy bolter, 1 grenade launcher, 1 plasmapistol and powerweapon and all have carparace armor is 128pts (perfectly legitimate squad).

An increase to WS4 is hard to quantify, but I'd say 1-2 points per guy is pretty reasonable.

Twin linking weapons is a lot harder to balance out (simply for the fact that it affects different weapons and statlines differently) but for BS4 models, it's pretty close but slightly higher than the increase that BS5 would give you, with the added benefit of making your plasma guy a lot more resilient to his own weapon. (88% hits vs 83%) In the end though, they're all still T3 Sv4+ models, so in my humble opinion something like a 3-4point increase per squad member sounds fair.

1-2+3-4 averages out to about 5, times 10 guys is an additional 50pts to the squad, bringing it to 178 or so, with 168 on the low end and 188 on the high end. If it were me, I'd play it at 180, with this kind of explanation of how I got there, and I don't think anyone should have a problem with it.

That said, I don't tend to do this kind of stuff, simply because I'd rather not have to explain it to every opponent (especially those I don't know, who might think I'm trying to undercost them or give myself an advantage), but feel free- I wouldn't have a problem with it.

SPYDER68
26-03-2009, 18:00
Home made characters.. as in.. own model.. using counts as rules for him.. in a legal army.. Sure sounds good.

home made character with home made stats... mmk.. can just leave em at home.

Ravensgard
26-03-2009, 18:10
wel, my veterans are fluff wise real elites, they are battle hardned and proven warriors. The ones that joins this elite cadre must have at least 20 years as imperial guard in active warzones and must be recommended by an senior officer.
As a reward they get superbly crafted weapons (terefor twinlinked or master crafted) and each member gets a piece of land on the planet Asgard (something of 500 square meters, not much, but better then their shamble hut on Midgard)

The planets are all part of my starsystem named Asgard, there are severable hospitable planets all named after Norwegian mytholigical worlds : Asgard, planet of the local Grey Knights, Midgard : largest planet, mainly medieval technology except for a few large cities. Muspel : a forge planet, ... etc

I'll continue an other time, have to go now, keep replieng please

Oberst Viktor Morte
26-03-2009, 19:17
I would have been fine with it, but after somerandomidiot's explanation, I think 180 would be more reasonable. However, is Stubborn really worth 25pts? Personally, I don't end up taking too terribly many leadership tests for that to really matter that much.

While the twin-linked, as said, is hard to give point costs to, but a Krieg grenadier is a Stormtrooper with WS4 for +1pt. 110pts a squad.


As per myself, I once made up rules for my officers dog, but he ended up being 35pts and pretty beastly. I lost those rules, but I might at some point make up some new ones, perhaps just giving the officer and extra attack or something.

Ubermensch Commander
26-03-2009, 19:35
Generally I am against home made special characters with homebrew rules. I simply do not like the idea. Granted, they can theoretically be balanced but usually not. Example; My friends idea for "Lighting Angels" chapter-they all get power weapons on the charge. Long time ago, and not character based but all is under purview of "home brewed rules". If i can follow the development, evaluate the rules, such as with a hommade codex, then yea, thats cool.

So incredibly cautious "ok" to homebrew rules so long as A) have prior warning and B) a chance to look over the rules.

eek107
26-03-2009, 19:35
In the end, the only people you need to ask are the ones on the other side of the table.

Personally, yes, I would play against home made stuff, as long as I get told about it before the game, rather than have it come as a "surprise" on turn 3. Where I play, we've made up a few custom units before, and we always print their rules so the others can look it over to see if they want to play against it, or offer any advice for improvements. In fact, two of us are currently playtesting our own chapter masters, fine-tuning their rules and points costs.

Justicar_Freezer
26-03-2009, 21:23
I'm all for home brewed characters, units, armies whatever. I personally think it makes the game more interesting and fun. Though I think it works best in a group who know each other well.

Though if I was told before hand and given a chance to look over the rules I'd be more then happy to play against home brewed things.

My friends and I have all created home brewed units, characters or armies before and we've found that with play testing they are always fun.

Nym
26-03-2009, 22:59
I have nothing against homebrew characters per se, just against OTT ones.

Classic mistake I *always* see with homebrew characters : stat upgrades (be it +1 wound, toughness, strength, etc...). Most of the time, people will increase the stats regardless of how their model look, just because they think their character can't be special if he doesn't have a better profile than the regular Marine Chapter Master for example.

Face it, army leaders are already exceptionnal, no need to add anything to their stats. If you look at Ghazghkull Thraka, he's only S5/T5 despite being massive. To justify a S6 or T6 for a homebrew Warboss, you'd really have to make a BIG model or some really good fluff (Cassius had more than half of his body eaten and replaced with bionics, same for Straken).

Acheron,Bringer of Terror
26-03-2009, 23:12
(Cassius had more than half of his body eaten and replaced with bionics, same for Straken).

Cassius rules are not justified imo. OTT. Just like home brew S7 T7 Warboss.

Some things in Marine codex are just not right.

NightrawenII
27-03-2009, 00:12
Im all 10 for homebrew characters
and I have Epistolary with some stats of Captain but 200pts.

Edit: Cassius make laugh every time i look at his price: 125pts.
(Normal Chaplain is 100pts)

Sir_Turalyon
27-03-2009, 01:31
I'm all for giving characters names and background, but never saw much reason to give them homebrewed rules. Except perhaps for WYSIWYG violations (like my brothers Night Lords lord Kurtz, using rules for mark of Tzeentch and Disc of Tzeentch but modelled with jump pack, iron halo and terminator honours (originaly used to represent deamonic essence and deamonic mutation) ).

Takitron
27-03-2009, 01:35
I say go for it, just try to be even handed. I might be a bit biased because I play with these (http://belloflostsouls.blogspot.com/2008/07/bols-mini-dex-downloads-archive.html) guys and their Campaign books are BOSS.

IrishDelinquent
27-03-2009, 01:40
Yay, I have found my new favourite thread! Reserving spaces for:

Skreeb da Mek-Runt
The Goff clan is renowned for it's size and strength. Any ork with half a brain knows that "da biggest an' da meanest come from da Goffs". Even Ghazghkull Thraka, the scourge of the Armageddon system, comes from the Goff clan. However, one of the smallest of the tribe could prove to be the strongest amongst them all.

Amongst the Goffs of Drysilla IV, the Big Mek Junka ruled supreme. He was recognised as a genius amongst orks, constructing death machines that made more noise and had more dakka than any other. Junka kept a swarm of Gretchin around to help him with repairs, but usually only needed one. Skreeb was unusually cunning and capable for a Gretchin, often able to fix things even Junka couldn't. The Big Mek was a little concerned about the skills of his assistant, but after all, he was only a Grot.

One night, Junka awoke to a cacophany of terror. His boys were running away from a clanking tower of smoke and blades. While it looked like a deff dread, it was far more impressive; it was bigger, noisier, shootier and deadlier than anything the ork could have ever dreamed of building. While his tribe fled all around him, being shot in the back by swarms of uprising Grots, the massive war machine seized Junka in one claw. The ork looked on in sheer terror as the whirring saw blades neared him. By sunrise, the Goff camp was stained red, and all the remaining boys swore loyalty to their new boss, Skreeb da Mek-Runt!

Skreeb da Mek-Runt

WS BS S FA SA RA A I Ld
4 5 6(10) 13 13 11 4 3 8

Special Rules

Paranoia
Skreeb, as a grot, possesses a stronger will to survive at all costs than the average Ork. He knows that should any Ork "get too big for their boots", he could be overthrown.

An army containing Skreeb da Mek Runt cannot take any of the following: units of Nobs and Mega-Armored Nobs, Warbosses or Big Meks.

Not my machines!
Skreeb despises Tankbustas. They blow up all the good gubbins, and some of them even blow up his own vehicles. Any Tankbustas that come to his clan are instantly warned not to shoot his toys, or they lose the other arm.

All Tankbusta units in an army containing Skreeb da Mek-Runt do not follow the normal Glory Hogs rule. All Tankbustas instead must shoot at the nearest enemy unit in line of sight with an armor value only. If there are no enemy vehicles left, or within line of sight, then the Tankbustas may fire like a normal unit.

Equipment

Stompier Legs
Skreeb added an extra pair of legs to his dredd, which had the unintended effect of making it more durable. It also made his dredd stompier, which was his original intent.

Skreeb's Krusha Kan is immune to vehicle shaken and vehicle stunned results. If the Krusha Kan is immobilized, it always moves as though in difficult terrain, but may otherwise move as normal. If immobilized a second time, it is immobilized as normal. Adds an additional attack (included in the profile above).

Lots of Grots
When Skreeb took command of the clan, Grots came swarming to his side in an immense green tide. When Da Krusha Kan stomps off to war, Grots climb all over it, effecting mid-battle repairs. Guided by the expertise of Skreeb, they are even more effective.

Whenever Da Krusha Kan suffers a Weapon Destroyed or Immobilized result, roll a D6; on a 3+ the damage is ignored. Also, should Da Krusha Kan become fully immobilized, roll a D6; on a 3+ then [Da Krusha Kan[/i] can move again, but moves as though it is in difficult terrain.

Also, an army containing Skreeb da Mek-Runt must have at least one herd of Grots, which must be a full-sized unit.

Da Krusha Kan is also equipped with a Kustom Force Field and 4 Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons, each with a built-in Big Shoota. Each Dreadnought close combat weapon can be upgraded with a built-in Skorcha for +6 points, or a built-in Rokkit for +10 points.


Shas'o Kas'ryo'kar

Sergeant Marcus of the Phoenix Guardians - Yes, this will be a rip-off of Gears of War

Zachary
27-03-2009, 02:13
I have an idea for the vets
They could be daemon vets(the ones who have seen to much and are therefor condemed to death by the inquisition) Maybe they were needed in some extemly impotant before they could be sentenced to death. An explanation for their weapons could be that they we planitary defence forces before being forced to defend their world from a daemon assault. Their planet could have had its on private forge to arm their defences and had decided to spare no expence to ensure their safty. You would have to figure out a way to make them guard or just paint them differently than guard and say that the rest of your army are reinforcements sent by the imperium.

Ravensgard
27-03-2009, 14:34
Well Zachary, your idea is nice, but my background is already kind of set. They are normal guards with just a lot of war experience and they are therefor rewarded with better armour and weapons and some lands.
According to my homebrewed rules, there may only be one squad like this to represent it's rarity.

Further along, yes I put my rules always on paper or even at least talk about it with my opponnent (usually the same guy) so that there will be no misunderstanding during the game.

I personally love doing things like that, it gives your army a sense of individuality etc
Like my friend, he plays nids, his hivefleet is calles "Wyvern" and therefore his tyrant has a breath attack equal to a heavy flamer for +25points, and a limited number of warriors may choose also a breath attack bio morph (but this is normal flamer and is for 15 points)

Like i said before, as long as the rules/upgrades are well justified by fluff and they are balanced I even say it is rewarding to play against.

Ravensgard
27-03-2009, 14:35
btw, the build up for the stat's / upgrades for the vets came from several doctrines, hence the +1 Ws and that stubborn like rule (I forgot the name of that doctrine, I thought Die hards)