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Bregalad
27-03-2009, 00:54
Our friends from BolS posted some small new rumour today about a possible Space Hulk release this autumn: http://belloflostsouls.blogspot.com/2009/03/rumors-space-hulk-chatter.html


Hi guys,

More whispers regarding the best Warhammer 40k boardgame ever made, Space Hulk.

Talk about the tubes is that when Games Workshop sets their mind on something they go all the way. Space Hulk is being described as a full bore rework with all the bells and whistles you could ever want.

Sources say to expect it in Q3 2009, and we have heard tales of modular plastic boards, an extensive set of large scale sprues with all the termys and genestealers you can shake a stick it, and all new fancy elements such as sliding doors and the like. There might even be a need for batteries (perhaps). Expect a full sized boxed game that will make all you cry with tears of joy.

Joewrightgm
27-03-2009, 02:07
You know, I've always heard great things about the original space hulk, but I came late to the game so I never got to play it.

Really looking forward to oodles of stealers and termies slugging it out in tight spaces.

Lord Raneus
27-03-2009, 02:57
If the stuff about a fully modeled gameboard and sliding doors is true, this will be amazing.

Sign me up.

Messiahnide
27-03-2009, 03:27
Awesome! If this is happening I cant wait, space hulk was one of my faves back in the day. :D

The Dude
27-03-2009, 03:28
Man, I'd be all over that if it indeed has plastic board sections.

shaun03
27-03-2009, 03:31
its about time we still play the old one from time to time, althou it odd useing all those old rules. But over on a BA thred the new space hulk is set to led up the nee BA codex can waite.

dblaz3r
27-03-2009, 03:33
God dammit GW, stop taking all my money :evilgrin:.

*Waiting in anticipation for the first visuals to start popping up*

Starchild
27-03-2009, 03:34
Wow, I'm glad I held off on buying more Terminators. First Black Reach, and now Space Hulk!!! My Dark Angels will be very happy this year. :skull:

Now I'm wondering how wide the corridors and doorways will be, since Terminators are now mounted on 40mm bases. For that matter, I also wonder if the game will be ruler-based instead of square-tile-based (those who have played the old game will know what I'm talking about.)

Hashshashin
27-03-2009, 03:38
I was super stoked when I saw this morning, One of my first loves in the GW universe was Space Hulk.

@starchild: I think the old squares were pretty much one inch, so even though it wasn't specified, it was inch based, kind of. But for speed I think square based as opposed to measuring would be better.

I had the Rogue Trader book but rarely played, while space hulk could be be played in a reasonable amount of time and with people who weren't necessarily "gamer dorks" (I'm from Wisconsin originally and that's a term of endearment)

I've said it other forums but I will say it again, Space Hulk rumours combined with other rumours about plastic trygon, could this be a good year for 'nids? Either way if Space Hulk reappears, It's a great year for me.

shaun03
27-03-2009, 03:40
my thoughs is that they should keept the square tile base. It made the game what it if it was rang base you could cover a whole board rather quickly. Good point on the 40mm base. maybe there just gives us smaller bases.
wonder if the will bring in other armies in to the mix.

schoon
27-03-2009, 03:53
Given GW's disposition towards doing things in plastic, I'd say that this could be a real treasure trove of both figures and terrain.

I've been wanting decent plastic starship corridors for some time, and getting my hands on several sets of plastic ones would be fantastic. I can't be the only one with that idea!

LordofWar1986
27-03-2009, 03:57
Dude! SPACE HULK! I love it!

Gameboard for it? I'm just jumping for joy!

Robespierre
27-03-2009, 04:11
It's too bad GW got rid of Genestealer Hybrids. They could really give Termies a run for their money. The Imperial Guard were going to have there own rules in the original game right?
If they just go ahead and allow for other forces to play through we can finally get some decent rules for fighting Orks inside a hulk or a Rok! Just think Harlequins vs Stealers in a hulk!

Hellfury
27-03-2009, 04:20
If they just go ahead and allow for other forces to play through we can finally get some decent rules for fighting Orks inside a hulk or a Rok! Just think Harlequins vs Stealers in a hulk!

It was about that time when the game started to get bogged down was when they introduced new and more fabulous races to the mix.

Initially it was a great idea, but it is hard to get the great game balance that was present when you only had termies and stealers.

For what its worth, I seriously would not count on there being anything in the initial set other than termies and stealers. *whistles and walks away*

warchild9
27-03-2009, 04:20
I love this game......I even have it on my ps one.....SERGIO'S BOLTER IS JAMMED

Frep
27-03-2009, 04:21
@ Robespiere That's a pretty neat idea, maybe GW could print them as WD supplements of something, get a bit more fun stuff put back instead of the constant advertisments.

Scorpion
27-03-2009, 04:31
I love this game......I even have it on my ps one.....SERGIO'S BOLTER IS JAMMED

My first contact with Warhammer 40K was a review of SPACE HULK: Revenge Of The Blood Angels on the local videogame show. I saw that intro and I thought: Cathedrals? In space? :wtf:

Natura
27-03-2009, 06:23
I wonder if this could be the mysterious "3rd 2009 Codex" that we have no information on.

In any case, sounds good.

Caprosmaster
27-03-2009, 06:41
ohhhh never played it, started 4th ed.. but i would love to play it.. the modular boards and sliging doors. sound great :)

Caprosmatser

Hellebore
27-03-2009, 06:55
If true this will be soopa awesome and cool and made of wincest.

It seems a little far fetched though, coming out of the blue. If true maybe GW have decided that self contained games ARE a good way of drawing noobies in?

We can only hope this awesomeness turns out to be true.

Hellebore

fattdex
27-03-2009, 07:54
I reckon it'll be a great 'Stimulus Package' to get newbs into 40K befor christmas. Don't forget that it will likely be marketed to games stores that traditionally don't necessarily carry GW product but carry other board games. Hopefully the battery operated item is the space marines turn 4 min heartbeat timer! Also with the world wide web community as it is these days, the return of the Hulk will be homebrew heaven for new rules and races.

thinkerman
27-03-2009, 08:31
Spoke with Jervis about that at the design studio open day - he wouldnt say much but what he did got me excited about spacehulk

My main issue though is price - i think were looking around £50 mark for the game but could be more

I hope is also possible to buy additional corridor sections to add to the game, maybe even convert bigger rooms for larger encounters - say a trygon/carnifex in there somewhere as a boss character.

Id also like to see the multipart terminators in the box rather than 4 part termies like in black reach - maybe even 10 termies in the box, 12 steelers, 20 gaunts, 3 warriors?

fattdex
27-03-2009, 09:07
One slight possibility is that the new Ymargl Broodlord model green that was spied at the last event could be a boss for spacehulk. Who knows?

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3293612&postcount=67

Usiel
27-03-2009, 09:11
~Gyrates through a bulkhead in excitement~ :D

Space Hulk and Space Crusade are what got me into this hobby, hail to the return of the King!


One slight possibility is that the new Ymargl Broodlord model green that was spied at the last event could be a boss for spacehulk. Who knows?

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3293612&postcount=67

Maybe we will see a Patriarch and Specialist Terminators (Like Librarians in the old expansions)

^_^ Nya!

Usi

jedipenguin
27-03-2009, 09:37
Id also like to see the multipart terminators in the box rather than 4 part termies like in black reach - maybe even 10 termies in the box, 12 steelers, 20 gaunts, 3 warriors?

I doubt we'd see gaunts or warriors in a Space Hulk set, as they are part of the main hive fleet and are not known to operate without a Hive mind presence fairly nearby, whereas Genestealers (according to most fluff) are advanced scouts designed to operate independent of the Hive mind for extended periods.

Maybe if they did an expansion that involved boarding hive ships (in the style of Tyranid Attack) we might see some of these beasties.

Jedi152
27-03-2009, 09:39
I can see this selling out really fast if all those rumours are true...

IAMNOTHERE
27-03-2009, 09:44
I'm buying every single copy!!!! lol!!!

I loved this game, I can't see non vanguard organisms making the cut for the Nids though.

So that would be lictors, ravenors and stealers.

Try playing 40k in corridors and you soon get a massive imbalance between the stealers and the termies. The stealers are so fast that without overwatch and simultaneous combat the termies just castle in rooms and get bogged down in long corridors.

The boyz
27-03-2009, 09:50
If these rumour's are true, then I cant wait. I love SH. The plastic board section's will be interesting to see if they decide to go down that route, instead of card.

scolex
27-03-2009, 11:20
Ooh that board sounds sooooo juicy. Am I the only one praying its big enough to play smaller (obviously all infantry) games of 40k on? Either way I'm likely to pick up a copy as I got into the hobby a bit too late for the original.

Thanks for the good rumor.

kahohess
27-03-2009, 11:38
What about the size of the things ? I mean, i'm really excited too, i love termies and as a matter of fact already got a good number of them, but, those have huge bases for a simple board game. So i'm wondering if "old" termies will be playable on the Space Hulk board ?

PaddyF
27-03-2009, 11:45
Blip Blip Blip Blip

*turns over counter*

8 Stealers ohhhhhsshiiiiiiiii *communication lost*

Poseidal
27-03-2009, 12:05
Space Hulk was one of the first GW games I played. Undoubtedly, this is a great step.

I'm predicting a price of around £60 from the costs of other board games that use minis like Starcraft and others. If it is a GW release, the minis will be far superior to most board games, and you'll get a lot of them so that price should be pretty fair.

Very exciting news, I wonder if the Marines and Stealers will be cast in different colour plastic though?

Joewrightgm
27-03-2009, 12:21
The more I hear, the more excited I am; I completely forgot about the feeder tendril broodlord! Now, if only it was made in plastic for the box set . . .

Netherghoul
27-03-2009, 12:31
would be grand if this is true, had tons of fun with it in the early days.
Aliens rip off 1st class but tons of fun nonetheless.

Dai-Mongar
27-03-2009, 12:45
Wow, I still have my copy of SH somewhere, sans the models. Was going to just get new ones, but might as well wait for this!
50 pounds sounds about right for what they're offering, even cheap. Just hope it stays around for more than a couple of years before they brush it under the mat.

Paganite
27-03-2009, 13:01
I know everyone is excited about the possibilities of new plastic goodness, but I'm more interested in the rules.

Are they going to create a 3rd edition?

Will people prefer 1st over 3rd, or will GW actually manage to make a successor rule set that has all the awesome of 1st ed but better?

Poseidal
27-03-2009, 13:20
Will people prefer 1st over 3rd, or will GW actually manage to make a successor rule set that has all the awesome of 1st ed but better?
No matter what they do, there will always be divisions, people preferring different edition.

Even if it was an exact reprint of 1st rules, some people will prefer the older one.

AmBlam
27-03-2009, 13:40
I think 1st was widely regarded to be better than second.

Sounds like a surefire hit

Bob Hunk
27-03-2009, 13:52
At the risk of hyperbole...

SPACE HULK IS THE BEST GAME EVER DEVISED AND THE PEAK OF HUMAN CIVILISATION! I MUST OWN IT NOW! :D

Seriously though, playing a friend's copy of Space Hulk got me into 40k, and it'd love my own copy all these years later...

Interesting about the possible need for batteries. Probably for a small digital timer I'm guessing, as the Marine turns were timed; they had two minutes, two thirty if Sarge is still alive, or three minutes if you had a captain. :)

boogle
27-03-2009, 14:21
I don't care what bells and whistles it's got, it's SPACE HULK, me and my sis will have fun playing this

TheBigBadWolf
27-03-2009, 14:27
I love this game......I even have it on my ps one.....SERGIO'S BOLTER IS JAMMED


My first contact with Warhammer 40K was a review of SPACE HULK: Revenge Of The Blood Angels on the local videogame show. I saw that intro and I thought: Cathedrals? In space? :wtf:

I have it on the Saturn (its a huge box compared to other saturn games), it is great, still play it now and again.


Spoke with Jervis about that at the design studio open day - he wouldnt say much but what he did got me excited about spacehulk

My main issue though is price - i think were looking around £50 mark for the game but could be more

I hope is also possible to buy additional corridor sections to add to the game, maybe even convert bigger rooms for larger encounters - say a trygon/carnifex in there somewhere as a boss character.

Id also like to see the multipart terminators in the box rather than 4 part termies like in black reach - maybe even 10 termies in the box, 12 steelers, 20 gaunts, 3 warriors?

£50 doesnt seem to bad, I dont want to see gaunts and warriors either, I want pure SH with only genestealers and terminators.

loveless
27-03-2009, 14:30
My purchasing of this will depend heavily on what's all in the box. I'm sure plastic tiles and everything are great fun, but I have a limit as to how much I'm willing to pay for fanciful terrain - even if it does come with a fun game :p

Roguebaron
27-03-2009, 14:33
Space hulk is the only reason I have yet to rebase my chaos termies, the 40mm bases are just to big for my old space hulk board, and to be honest, space hulk can be a heck of a lot more fun than 40k these days. :eek:

Hellfury
27-03-2009, 14:34
Yeah, the most logical reason to include batteries is for the Timer.

2 years ago when Vic first brought this whole thing up to Warseer that he dug out from BoardGameGeek, he wrote: (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77013&highlight=space+hulk)

I brought up the subject that I read that the designers of 2nd edition wish that they did put the timed game play for the SM player. He agreed it adds so much to the game and said that they looked into sand timers (fairly costly), but that technology has come way down in price, that it looks like they would use a digital timer - where they could even put sounds in there as time is running out (like a heart beating fast he put it) and another sound when time is up (I'm thinking a death groan would be cool for that). He says that this timer is less of a cost from a supplier than the old sand timer. Towards the end of the conversation I said that would be really cool if they did come out with it, and the impression I got from his reactions is that it is seems that this may go through

If any batteries are going to be in this game, then it will likely be the timer and not some lighting setup.
Not that lighting with leds and whatnot is expensive to do, but in GW land such things would cost a kings ransom I imagine.

Godgolden
27-03-2009, 14:39
(womans voice)

You have... 6 minutes to reach safe minimum distance.

Hellfury
27-03-2009, 14:57
(womans voice)

You have... 6 minutes to reach safe minimum distance.

Funny you say that. Thibault Bloch from BoardGameGeek and I have been using the old AVP video game sounds to create a space hulk timer.

Its a pretty high quality flash file that gives such warnings in intervals as dictated by 1st edition space hulk (4,3,2,1,minute marks and 45, 30, 15 second marks) it even has the motion tracker beep.

He has one already uploaded to BoardGameGeek but it is the obsolete version. It takes forever for files to be approved for upload there.

Here is one of the earlier rough versions of the timer:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/180/230053.page#570333

Hellebore
27-03-2009, 14:59
(womans voice)

You have... 6 minutes to reach safe minimum distance.

Actually, it's 'You have... 6 minutes to reach minimum safe distance.'

Not that I'm a pedant or anything oh no, I hate feet.

Hellebore

BigBadBull
27-03-2009, 15:13
This sounds great about all the new tiles/board , but one thing that strikes me is knowing GW it will drive price up to the point were few out side of 40k gamers will buy it.

This would be my only concern. It sounds great,I just thought that they were trying to go larger audience than normal Miniatures gamers ( Walmart Target toy shoppers).

Bloodknight
27-03-2009, 15:17
Sounds great, I always had a lot of fun with SH. I hope that they don't follow up on that "sound timer" idea. That has this childish ring to it...

IAMNOTHERE
27-03-2009, 15:28
To be honest I hope they do follow up on the timer idea. It should tick off the miniutes and have a 60 bpm heartbeat noise until the last miniute, then a 90 bpm for the next 30 seconds, slowly increaseing up to 120 - 150 bpm as it gets less and less.

The timer was one of the coolest things about SH, it needs to stay.

Hellebore, have you thoght about doing it as a track for mobile phones?

Hellebore
27-03-2009, 15:34
Hellebore, have you thoght about doing it as a track for mobile phones?

Yes, well my impersonation of a hot disembodied female voice is pretty good, but alas I lack the wherewithal to apply it to phone apps.

Hellebore

MarshallSam
27-03-2009, 15:40
I am so syked about this!! I came into the hobby later and never played although some of my veteran buddies said it was the best this GW ever did!! If this is true I'll have so much fun with this since my wife always wants to play board games!!

Frogczar
27-03-2009, 15:45
I can't express how excited I am for this. Space Hulk was what got me into 40k in the first place.

I have a fully painted 1st edition set with Deathwing terminators and all of the Genestealers. I have yet to paint up my Deathwing expansion though. I suppose this means my nice old set won't necessarily be worth as much but who cares?!

Get this Space Hulk in my veins! Argh!

-Frog

brassangel
27-03-2009, 16:04
You know, I've always heard great things about the original space hulk, but I came late to the game so I never got to play it.

Really looking forward to oodles of stealers and termies slugging it out in tight spaces.

And being sold in a giant box for cheap, a la AoBR. :D

fattdex
27-03-2009, 16:22
I would fully expect this to cost $Bloodbowl, not $AOBR- It's not a loss-leader.

Hellfury
27-03-2009, 17:01
I would fully expect this to cost $Bloodbowl, not $AOBR- It's not a loss-leader.

Considering how many of us were first introduced to 40K through Space Hulk, it could very well be considered a loss leader by GW.

If rumors are true about a full plastic tile set (40+ tiles if the old sets are anything to go by) then this box could easily cost $60+ USD.

Jedi152
27-03-2009, 17:06
I'd imagine it would be less work, hassle and expense to produce plastic corridors than it would to get an artist to paint, and then a company to produce, card ones, especially if they can cross over into 40k some day.

Sheena Easton
27-03-2009, 17:11
Sounds great - and I secretly hope that this will lead to a revamped Hero Quest (highly unlikely unfortunately) or Warhammer Quest being released - or even the return of Necromunda and Mordheim.

OrlyggJafnakol
27-03-2009, 17:26
This is excellent, excellent news (if true) and I would happily play £50 quid to play the game again. The modular plastic terrain interests me considering the places GW is taking 40k. First apocolypse, then the oft-mention planetstrike... Could Space Hulk be the basis of ship to ship boarding actions for 40k? Could Space Hulk be both stand-a-lone game and expansion?

Panzerkanzler
27-03-2009, 18:16
You know, I've always heard great things about the original space hulk, but I came late to the game so I never got to play it.

Really looking forward to oodles of stealers and termies slugging it out in tight spaces.

Well, lets just say that your missus won't be getting any after you've bought the game. Yeah, it's THAT good =) (at least it was...we'll see how the new stuff turns out)

MarshallSam
27-03-2009, 18:18
Could Space Hulk be both stand-a-lone game and expansion?

I would love to see Space Hulk as an expansion. I really miss Kill Teams from the BRB, I've been dying for some expansion that focuses on a single squad, similar to Necromunda.

commandergabriel
27-03-2009, 18:19
I also think that this is great news. I have 3 complete sets of the 1st edition, 2 complete sets of second edition plus 1 complete set of both Deathwing and Genestealer. I aboslutely love this game!

I would fully expect that GW release modular plastic tiles to use, but to also have them compatible with the imperial sector scenery (so one could add those imperial sector bits to make walls for their hulks). As for counters, I'm thinking something along the lines of the apocalypse green flamer templates; would make blips a lot more interesting.

A timer would be fantastic!!!

Captain Micha
27-03-2009, 18:22
This could make sense with all the nid rumors cropping up lately.

Termies and bugs... this should be good. (It'll help me collect more bugs and terrain! the termies will be great as proxy GK termies till I can get a set of them :D)

And ontop of that I get a nifty board game too? Sweet.

Chainsofsigil
27-03-2009, 18:22
Whilst were all eagerly awaiting the return of GW's greatest ever single boxed set, check out the computer game version. Googling Space Hulk SP should do the trick! Great for practice and developing strategies against those pesky stealers.

Wolf Scout Ewan
27-03-2009, 18:38
I bet GW will release this for the Christmas Market and a expansion oooh soon after.... maybe march?

If I was a betting man... I'd put few quid on it. Maybe 50?

Emperor's Grace
27-03-2009, 18:44
If the board is interlocking plastic rooms and halls, I'll be buying multiple copies.

The Phazer
27-03-2009, 21:22
Plastic tiles would be a massive win. Looking forward to this.

Phazer

commandergabriel
27-03-2009, 21:44
It certainly would be a great thing... I see myself getting a few boxes!

LonelyPath
28-03-2009, 00:03
Plastic tiles? Hell, I'd be happy if they were cardboard like the first 2 editions, lol. I have mulpitple copies of each plus the expansions (oh, and that SH book that released for 1st edition all them years ago). It wasn't the top game for me (that was Chainsaw Warrior, so much fun), but a darn close second ;)

Grims Axe
28-03-2009, 00:39
I fully expect the hallways to be completely compatable with the CoD buildings.
Besides, has anyone noticed how the CoD floor sections are already a perfect single Teminator width & divided into squares along a path.:D

It makes for using the old movement system Real easy.

I just hope the book includes rules for using all races making it a full boarding action/enemy complex supplement for 40K;)

II Orar II
28-03-2009, 01:29
cant see it happening tbh imperial guard and new nids are proberly what were going to get dont get ur hopes up very vague im expecting new nids no new expansion gw are pushing apocalypse this year:p

would be good though

Wolf Scout Ewan
28-03-2009, 01:38
cant see it happening... would be good
though

Your foresight doesnt reach as far as Christmas?

schoon
28-03-2009, 01:55
I would love to see Space Hulk as an expansion. I really miss Kill Teams from the BRB, I've been dying for some expansion that focuses on a single squad, similar to Necromunda.

Space Hulk done in a Kill Team style, where you can construct your team (and their numberless mook adversaries) from any of the given 40K races would be a definite score in my book!

LonelyPath
28-03-2009, 02:02
The Space Hulk Kill Team was done for 4th Edition, the rules and scenario were produced by GW, no idea if they're still available though. I would prefer to see a new edition of the old game though, but an evolution on the original, not the 2nd edition.

Hellfury
28-03-2009, 02:14
cant see it happening tbh imperial guard and new nids are proberly what were going to get dont get ur hopes up very vague im expecting new nids no new expansion gw are pushing apocalypse this year:p

would be good though

Punctuation much?

England, the land of the English language. Yet it appears that many brits can't seem to speak it.

As for kill team, I enjpoyed the killteam mod GW made for 'return to space hulk' but it didnt seem like a really popular option.
My money is on just redoing the game and leaving 40K as we know it completely out of the equation.

Hellebore
28-03-2009, 02:32
They may just simplify the dice by assigning a value to each number rather than issuing specialist dice only available in the box.

Hellebore

Hellfury
28-03-2009, 02:53
They may just simplify the dice by assigning a value to each number rather than issuing specialist dice only available in the box.

I hope so. The proprietary dice were probably the worst failing of the 2nd ed of the game. Not that it would be hard to just use your own dice by translating as:

Hit = 6
Sustained Fire = 5
Empty Crosshair = 1-4

...but still... those dice were just plain dumb. Hopefully GW learned from that mistake.

mweaver
28-03-2009, 02:59
Only ever played one game, at Nashcon last year.

Died horribly.

Loved it.

Armydillo978
28-03-2009, 03:01
We all know GW is capable of great things....as long as they give Space Hulk a better treatment than a one shot deal, like Mighty Empires, it'll be great. Whether it's a stand alone game, or a 40K expansion.....either way, some will love it, some will hate it......but most of us will buy at least two sets. Ka-Ching for GW!


With or without a buzzer. This is an awesome gateway for a new generation to 40K.

Natura
28-03-2009, 03:50
Punctuation much?

England, the land of the English language. Yet it appears that many brits can't seem to speak it.


Oh why can't the English teach their children how to speak?

warchild9
28-03-2009, 06:13
I wonder if you can still denote the hvy flamer termie or if assualt cannon termies will jam and expolde in chocolatey goodeness.....I know i am going to paint the termies as BA termies because it is an army I would never play

Wickey the Viking
28-03-2009, 09:51
Wow... my imagination runs wild on plastic boardpieces and sliding doors etc. I can't wait 'till the first pictures pop up!

Maybee the plastic Grey Knight rumours have something to do with this release also??

Netherghoul
28-03-2009, 10:56
ah, I predict a new makeover on Bloodbowl, Necromunda & Mordheim as well :P

Hermanesq
28-03-2009, 11:54
well, quest first, mebbe


have heard no plastic tiles, embossed card instead, termies, captain, librarian, loads of cool genestealers, and not a duplicate model in sight, definatly on the marine side anyway.

Blood angels are the chapter aswell, the captain with thunder hammer and storm bolter, and the librarian posed to be walking down stairs sound the best bits.

Hellfury
28-03-2009, 14:57
interesting stuff.

axabrax
28-03-2009, 15:28
Unlikely they'd do alternate races in the basic boxed set. In fact, they'd be stupid to do so when they can charge more money for additional expansions that add races just like they did before.

Orgussv2
28-03-2009, 16:55
I'm seriously hoping that this turns out to be true. Space Hulk fans have been begging for a re-release for years now. I also know that Space Hulk is what got a LOT of veteran gamers into the hobby in the first place!

I see no reason why GW wouldn't give teasers about a "board game" that wasn't a re-release of this classic game.

Joewrightgm
28-03-2009, 20:08
Well, lets just say that your missus won't be getting any after you've bought the game. Yeah, it's THAT good =) (at least it was...we'll see how the new stuff turns out)

Well . . . My girl plays board games like a champ; the only reason I wouldn't be getting any would be if I won a game of space hulk (ultimate case of being a sore loser!)

But seriously, I just thought about the feeder-tendril broodlord and how nicely GW did with the Warboss and Captiain in Assault on Black Reach.

I don't think it'd be outside the realm of possibility that they throw us a couple of characters on the sprue; a Terminatro captain along with a Broodlord to 'keep him company'.

Also, I know the feeling at least where I live and game, is that GW has not done a whole lot for their veteran base. Hopefully this will win hearts and minds by making them "remember their roots."

I'm fairly optimistic about this game; if the rules aren't good or not fun, the terrain and minis will more than adequately compensate.

in closing: "There's no school like the old school"

cuda1179
28-03-2009, 20:33
I'm wondering if they will somehow make the new space hulk game compatible with 40k codex's. So that way all you have to do is buy space hulk. If you only want to play the boxed game, use the mini rule-book. If you have a 40k codex, use the points and stats listed there for a squad and use that squad with space hulk rules.

Lord Mayor Of Y'ha-nthlei
28-03-2009, 20:59
I'm wondering if they will somehow make the new space hulk game compatible with 40k codex's. So that way all you have to do is buy space hulk. If you only want to play the boxed game, use the mini rule-book. If you have a 40k codex, use the points and stats listed there for a squad and use that squad with space hulk rules.

at the very least it would be nice if they included space hulk rules for Orks and CSM in an appendix as they also have a habit of cruising about on space hulk waiting to come across something worth clobbering

xerxeshavelock
28-03-2009, 21:10
Alternate settings would be cool - flip the tiles over to play in a Necron Tombship. There are downloadable tiles that someone did that looked really good. They were black with gold engraving.

I would buy a tables-worth no problem. Might even build a space ship out of them...

rev
28-03-2009, 21:46
please please please please GW don't ruin space hulk by making to many changes.

PLEASE.

Alessander
28-03-2009, 22:10
There really isn't much new about this rumor. There was a rumor thread from a Games Day a few years ago about an interview/chat with Jervis about Space Hulk. He confirmed that it was in the works, would be all plastic (as cardboard is way too expensive these days, which is why GW doesn't do cardboard terrain, inserts or counters anymore) and would probably have a digital timer instead of a eggtimer/hourglass since digital would be overall cheaper. He even mentioned that the digital timer would have a sound effect like a heartbeat beating faster and faster as the time ticks away.

Only real "new" info is the sliding doors.

The big question is how much are they going to redesign the game. Will the terminators have 25mm bases or be 50mm like the new terms? Most likely 50, since they can boost sales of existing plastic terms. 50mm bases means the hallway tiles (plastic or otherwise) will be bigger, leading to either massively (200%) larger play areas, or cut down game maps.

Since the doors will open and close, will the plastic tiles have walls? would this allow for true 3D (room-over-room) hulks?

Plastic pieces also means they can't really expand in White Dwarf like they used to.

isidril93
28-03-2009, 22:55
cant wait...would they be assault termies or normal ones?

Ben
28-03-2009, 23:05
I think everyone is hoping this is true. But until we start getting confirmations signed in Jervis's own blood, lets not get too excited.

My painting of 58 genestealers and 10 Terminators is an entirely unrelated precautionary measure.

However I'd definitely buy 1. If there are plastic board pieces/the board is such that if you have enough you can put in carnifexes and dreadnoughts, I'd buy as many a necessary for it.

static grass
29-03-2009, 00:05
I am quite sure it is true.

Wolf Scout Ewan
29-03-2009, 00:49
I am quite sure it is true.

Me2. Hence my earlier post.

Jack Spratt
29-03-2009, 01:07
If this is true ... oh boy! I am gonna nerd out all over the place.

Started out with Space Hulk and Bloodbowl, then into Epic, then 40K and Mordheim, then Fantasy and 40K, then just Fantasy. It would be like coming home :)

Also 40k just dosen´t do anything for me anymore - gamewise that is (love the fluff and the models though). If the game is (still) any good this would be a great way for me to still play some kind of 40k.

Cant wait

Ben
29-03-2009, 01:32
Hold on, are Tyranids the mystery 40k release this year? If SH does come out ths year, and the box contains a Broodlord and a bunch of stealers, it would makeit a great starter for a nid army.

But I'm not going to believe it till I see it confirmed by GW **trawls ebay for macragge stealers**

Wolf Scout Ewan
29-03-2009, 02:29
I heard mumblings that the Game will be based on the original Fluff, the Blood Angels First Encounter with the Forces of the Hive Mind in The Hammer of Souls... or whatever the name of the Hul was called.

Hashshashin
29-03-2009, 02:46
Ben this is the same dead horse I've beating all over these forum but no one has responded to any of my posts.

But hey: Space Hulk rumours+Plastic Trygon rumours+Mystery Codex=Tyanids

I'm sticking with this line of reasoning...

schoon
29-03-2009, 03:47
The Space Hulk Kill Team was done for 4th Edition, the rules and scenario were produced by GW, no idea if they're still available though. I would prefer to see a new edition of the old game though, but an evolution on the original, not the 2nd edition.

Kill Team suffered from haphazard expansion, and the basic rules weren't really robust enough to handle too much expansion anyway.

That being said, Kill Team would also not translate terribly well into a board game - regardless of how much cool plastic was included ;)

However, as a fan of the old Space Hulk and the Kill Team rules, I'd love to see a basic system that was true to the old game, but robust enough (and well planned for future expansion) that it could handle expansions/new races/etc. till it was Kill Team-like.

We'll just have to wait and see!

Grimbad
29-03-2009, 06:45
I really want a copy of Space Hulk. I want a copy of Space Hulk because I have a copy of this version (http://www.teardown.se) from before the developers got a cease and desist, and it is very much a fun game. Proof that GW ordered some effective advertising to cease and desist, but I won't hold it against them. Let's see... I'll need one space hulk board for playing space hulk on, and at least two to play on with my orks...

Hellfury
29-03-2009, 15:03
The big question is how much are they going to redesign the game. Will the terminators have 25mm bases or be 50mm like the new terms? Most likely 50, since they can boost sales of existing plastic terms. 50mm bases means the hallway tiles (plastic or otherwise) will be bigger, leading to either massively (200%) larger play areas, or cut down game maps.

Well, first of all termies are on 40mm bases not 50mm. Secondly, each space on the space hulk tiles is a bit over 30mm square.

This means an increase of maybe 25%-30% in tile space size over the previous versions, not 200% or even 100%. What you propose as massive is a bit of hyperbole.

Since this game was barely playable on a kitchen table in the first place, I dont see GW worrying to much over any increased scale for board tiles. After all, they offered freely downloadable 40mm based space hulk board tiles (http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/40k/gaming/spacehulk/tiles.htm) for 'return to space hulk' (4th ed kill team mod) and those tiles work just fine.

Edchopp
29-03-2009, 15:06
If this is true then that would be awesome. However (and this is just conjecture here) does anyone remember the movie rumour from last year? It said that a movie would be released on DVD in september of this year. Might it be a Tie in with Space Hulk? Just a thought. Oh and if anyone else has thought of this then I apologise I don't want to step on anyones toes.

Hellfury
29-03-2009, 15:42
please please please please GW don't ruin space hulk by making to many changes.

PLEASE.Agreed. While I am amongst the hundreds of others who would love to incorporate other races into the game, I seriously doubt that GW can manage the delicate balance that the original base game had with just termies and stealers by adding new races.

From a game design standpoint, it would be a nightmare to balance them all out with each other and make it function as well as it already does with just stealers and termies.

I say if you want oodles of other races, then make your own rules and leave the elegant simplicity of the original space hulk as designed by GW alone.

But, I would not be adverse to a bunch of other races if GW could somehow pull it off AND MAKE IT BALANCED. I just have my doubts as to wether GW still have the capacity to do that.

The original game won two consecutive origins awards for a reason. I would love to see this game win another origins award or some other accolade, but I dont see that happening if GW cater to people who will whine and moan about not being able to use their orks or squats in the game.

Ben
29-03-2009, 16:23
I think it would depend on what was included. Ork boyz and grots might be game breakingly good against stealers due to massed fire power and lots of expendable dudes.

However a Mega Armoured Nobz boarding party would be a great stand in for terminators.

You've got to go a small elite force vs the stealer hordes, and while I'd love to see it opened up with either Hybrids or the rest of the nid range, same as I'd love to see marines able to take dreadnoughts, power armoured marines and scouts, I will be happy with a well balanced playable game. The Genestealer psychic rules were game breaking, and any psychic ablities would have to be handled with more restraint. Apart from that 1st edition is pretty flawless.

If this is coming out I'm very excited by it, and if the Nid codex comes out with a better set of rules for Nids I'll dig out my nids and paint them all up.

mweaver
29-03-2009, 16:36
RE: other races: if they go with the traditional 'nids vs. termies in the game itself, they could release other army lists in WD or an expansion later. Or they could do like Mordheim - a handful of well-balanced starting warbands, more added later as experimental warbands.

Ben
29-03-2009, 16:37
In fact for other races:

Orks - mega armoured nobs/eavy armoured nobz/freebooterz
Chaos - Terminators/power armoured marines
Tau - Battlesuits/stealthsuits - Tau are tricky with this unless there is a new combat suit.
Necrons - Immortals/Pariahs/destroyers
Guard - stormtroopers/Ogryns
Eldar - Dire Avengers? With no heavy combat troops with decent ranged shooting they're the trickiest to think of a good alternative to terminators. Ditto Dark eldar.

Alternatively allow other races to replace the genestealers. Fight your way into an Ork Roc or Necron Tombship.

Azzy
29-03-2009, 16:57
Personally, I don't care if there are no rules for anything outside of Termies and Genestealers. The game needs to retain its original scope. Later expansions or optional rules are cool, but I think it would be a mistake to try and be to ambitious with initial release.

Pacific
29-03-2009, 17:53
Space Hulk has always been built upon the simple premise of Terminators against Genestealers. One of the terminators in the squad has a heavy flamer. That is all.

And it worked so well because it had this simple premise - it added greatly to the speed of the game and the tactics involved, and anyone could play it with only a modicum of knowledge which made it great as an introductory system (I know for a fact alot of people got into GW because of Space Hulk)

Once you start dicking around with orcs in mega armour and Necrons then the whole thing will fall onto its over-inflated **** and the simple but vivid magic of the system will be lost.

Killgore
29-03-2009, 18:22
Space Hulk has always been built upon the simple premise of Terminators against Genestealers. One of the terminators in the squad has a heavy flamer. That is all.

And it worked so well because it had this simple premise - it added greatly to the speed of the game and the tactics involved, and anyone could play it with only a modicum of knowledge which made it great as an introductory system (I know for a fact alot of people got into GW because of Space Hulk)

Once you start dicking around with orcs in mega armour and Necrons then the whole thing will fall onto its over-inflated **** and the simple but vivid magic of the system will be lost.



Id be happy with the basics of old school style SpaceHulk in the core box with a lil extra then what 2nd ed SH provided

with extra rules available online/ 'advanced' expansions



though i do hope we have slightly more then just Genestealers to kill, add some hybrids and a 'broodlord/ magus' boss and a choice of Terminator heavy weapon as added gravey :D




I heard mumblings that the Game will be based on the original Fluff, the Blood Angels First Encounter with the Forces of the Hive Mind in The Hammer of Souls... or whatever the name of the Hul was called.

Well if Blood Angels get a proper codex next year or whenever what better marketing is there for the Blood Angels by having them feature as the stars in space hulk?

Ghostwolf
29-03-2009, 18:35
Indeed Space Hulk has always had the premis of Terminators boarding deralict space hulks and combatting advanced Genestealer colonies before they arrive at world to conquer. However there is scope for the other races as well as unit and weapon upgrades.

For example, the basic game could deal with the Genestealers and Terminator Boarding actions, but it could leave an opening for an expansion book that could cover the various races over several chapters and like the original space hulk expansions you could get the introduction of basis psychic powers. I imagine if that were the case you would have boarding missions with a points limit for devising your own missions. Each objective means more points and available units as well as dictating the board size. releasing a Space Hulk map/mission maker CD would go well for that.

Messiah
29-03-2009, 18:44
While the basics are very sound; Genestealers vs Termies, I would love to be able to use ordinary space marines or even guard against other tyranid infestations!(!) :D

Lion El Jason
29-03-2009, 18:45
Original space hulk did have rules for 'stealer hybrids, chaos, marines other than terminators, harlequins and others but most prefered to just play basic.

Plastic corridors would be awesome, we've known GW wanted to do a ship boarding codex like cityfight a few years ago... maybe this will be the start of it?

The boyz
29-03-2009, 19:00
I'm going to have to say, as much as I really like the basic Termie's V Genestealer's version of SH. I quite like the idea of having an expansion pack or rules, that would allow you to use other race's.

It would be great to be able to use IG Stormtrooper's against Genestealer's or create a ship to ship boarding action.

Hellfury
29-03-2009, 22:56
or just use whatever models you want and proxy them in for the termies and genestealer rules.

Models, not important.

Rules, very important. or rather how smooth the mechanics work.

Psychic powers were a huge unbalanced drag, taking far too long to resolve in a game that is normally very fluid. Heaven forbid they EVER include those or anything like them again.
Eldar rules were also a joke. They didnt even give you a value for them as they did for terminators.
Harlequins even worse with their ultra special rules.
IG were a sad board clogging waste of human air, but atleast they had point values to bid over. They got in each others way so that their main power, ranged weaponry, could hardly ever come to bear.
Grey knights were just stupid broken.
Tyranids *slaps forehead* yeah...
Traitor terminators were perhaps the most balanced of all the varients. But then again, their options were nearly identicle to loyalist terminators, so it was basically a model switch and that was it. (see first line of this post)

Considering all of the above, there is good reason for discerning potential consumers to dread any variation past termies and 'stealers. Those additional permutations simply didnt add anything positive to the game.
Its not that GW do not have the capacity to learn from their past mistakes, but I fear them folding to the masses who simply cannot play space hulk without having rules for front armor 12-grot-berserker-zoanthropes armed with a demolisher cannon. :rolleyes: SpaceHulk...apocalypse style! Buy more models! They're cool! Hurr! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Okay those last remarks were major hyperbole, but the point still stands that unless GW take great care in what they decide to add to the game (if anything) that the rereleased space hulk could get far less profit than it otherwise could garner with it actually being a balanced game.

But none of this really matters because GW have long since written what they are going to do with this game. So now its waiting and seeing. Praying to the gods of boardgames that GW dont &%#* up yet again.

Wolf Scout Ewan
30-03-2009, 00:32
Well if Blood Angels get a proper codex next year or whenever what better marketing is there for the Blood Angels by having them feature as the stars in space hulk?

What better way indeed! From what I have heard GW have planned next year already.

Bregalad
30-03-2009, 01:02
Let's hope they go the full way and sell Space Hulk in normal toy stores as well. To recruit new gamers. Would be stupid not to do that.

Chem-Dog
30-03-2009, 01:43
Would be nice but I'm keeping my powder dry until I hear something a little more.....concrete.




For that matter, I also wonder if the game will be ruler-based instead of square-tile-based (those who have played the old game will know what I'm talking about.)

I don't see why you need to mess with a perfectly good system here, keep it movement = No of squares and younger kids will be able to pick it up easier.




It seems a little far fetched though, coming out of the blue. If true maybe GW have decided that self contained games ARE a good way of drawing noobies in?

Look at the responses here, all old hands remembering their salad days spend pasting 'stealers all over the walls of some ancient space craft, the younger generations don't have that.


I can see this selling out really fast if all those rumours are true...

We only need 1 rumour to be true, the one that says it's gonna happen.


I'd imagine it would be less work, hassle and expense to produce plastic corridors than it would to get an artist to paint, and then a company to produce, card ones, especially if they can cross over into 40k some day.

The reason GW stopped with all the printed card was that it was more expensive to produce.


Well, lets just say that your missus won't be getting any after you've bought the game.

All I'm going to say is that it's a turn based game ;)



The big question is how much are they going to redesign the game. Will the terminators have 25mm bases or be 50mm like the new terms? Most likely 50, since they can boost sales of existing plastic terms. 50mm bases means the hallway tiles (plastic or otherwise) will be bigger, leading to either massively (200%) larger play areas, or cut down game maps.

40K's got that much bigger since this game first saw light, I don't think a slight size increase would be all that problematic.


Since the doors will open and close, will the plastic tiles have walls? would this allow for true 3D (room-over-room) hulks?

I seriously doubt it as this would hamper play, nothing to stop you doing it yourself but lifting entire "floors" to access lower levels seems, to me, like a massive series of huge leaps in the wrong direction.


Plastic pieces also means they can't really expand in White Dwarf like they used to.

And no more "sticky paste this page and a bit to a cornflakes box" action? good! all we need are a couple hundred squares about the size of the floor tiles in the CoD terrain kits.
WD support would be different campaigns, new special rules, support for other races, conversion and building ideas, not to mention how to tie it all together into an Apocalypse battle.
If the buzz about Direct only plastic sprues (deff rolla et al) is true we could very well see special tile sets released periodically and possibly a sampler similar to what we saw with the Mighty Empires kit.


Let's hope they go the full way and sell Space Hulk in normal toy stores as well. To recruit new gamers. Would be stupid not to do that.

It's what an entire generation of gamers are without.
40K is still largely impenetrable to the younger player, there is a hole in the product line for an entry level game that uses simple rules that a parent who isn't savvy to the hobby can get their heads around, what can it hurt that it includes the Crem de la creme of humanity's warriors in huge walking tank suits?

Dai-Mongar
30-03-2009, 04:00
GW already have a varied range of clip-together figures out, any of them could be utilised for an expansion. I can imagine an Ork supplement with nobz to take the terminators' usual role and boyz to replace 'stealers.

Atrum Angelus
30-03-2009, 06:08
I wasn't sure what to make of this when I read it a couple days ago.

Then last night I was checking up on friends on facebook, including some of the HQ guys I met while working at GW, and noticed several of were spending their lunch hours playing Space Hulk.

Ghostwolf
30-03-2009, 10:32
I think the basic mechanics of the previous edition of Space Hulk were really good and could do with a little tweaking for other races, weapons and powers. The action & command point system was brilliant and combat was nice and simple, so here are my thoughts.

If points values were to be introduced to squads then I think a points to blip ratio would be a good balance. For example, a single terminator squads points would equal 4 - 6 starting blips (up to half of these could start lurking), and 12 - 15 reserve blips.

Psychic powers could be handled well if done correctly. (I never played the classic edition with psychic powers so I'm just suggesting this as I go) Each race would be able to choose 1 - 3 powers from a list of 6 - 8 different powers (points based) at the start of the game with a limit of 1 attack, 1 defensive, 1 affecting movement. To use a psychic power would cost half the psyker's action points AND 1 command point. Also, psyker's can try to nullify any psychic power with any remaining command points from the end of their turn so long as they can see the opposing psyker.

Here's a power list from off the top of my head:

Fireball - Range 12 (squares/inches depending on the rules) - attack an area with 9 heavy flamer counters. use all action points and 2 command points make the effect last 2 turns

Fury - Range close combat - grants the caster an additional 2 attacks in combat

Barrier - Range 3 (squares/inches) - Raises a psychic barrier that blocks movement and shooting but not line of sight. Fireball could be cast through this for example. Further command points can be spent during casting to prolong the duration.

Panic - Range 6 (squares/inches) - Causes all enemy units to run D6 squares as far from the caster as possible.

Quickening - Range 3 - Grants the caster or friendly target in range double their remaining action points using a command point on the target model after casting negates the effect and causes the caster to take a wound.

Slow Time - Range 6 - Causes all enemy units within range to double the cost of their action points for all actions.

This is just a basic list but I'm sure there would be one or two race specific powers as well.


As for the other races and units, you really have to look at their power to decide who hey would work. For example, Grey Knight's all being psykers might only come as an expensive unit with only three models. Ork Mega-Nobs could start with a unit of six models but be more prone to weapon jams. Eldar and Imperial guard would board with Dire Avengers, Striking Scorpions or Stormtroopers (respectively) and have the largest unit sizes of 10 and be able to fire when there is one behind the other (seeing as they're not as broad as Terminators or Mega-Nobs.

As I've spoken about Psykers then Character's could be an option as well, Space Marine Captain/Chaplain/Librarian in Terminator Armour as a start, Eldar Farseer, Commisar's, Warbosses and so on, each with their own ability. Even special Characters could make an appearance, Just picture Belial storming through a Space Hulk.

These are just thoughts though, I'm sure after a few afternoon's I could hammer out something more solid :)

static grass
30-03-2009, 11:13
Well it is hard to define space hulk in points values, it is quite touchy feelly. The layout of the board and placement of exit/entry points is critical.

As a general observation our home brew games tended to favour the stealers - until we altered the over watch rule so that you could get as many shots as you wanted for one AP. Hey, it worked lots of stealers and lots os shooting :D

Observing staff behaviour is usally a good indicator of what is to come :)

Hellfury
30-03-2009, 13:49
These are just thoughts though, I'm sure after a few afternoon's I could hammer out something more solid
Perhaps playing 40k might be better suited to what you are after?

That is what you trying to turn space hulk into afterall. A facsimile of that much larger squad based game.

GW tried that once (genestealer expansion). It sucked large green donkey testicles.
It bogged the game down so much that they had the bright idea of starting completely from scratch all over again with 2nd ed. They missed the boat with that edition as well. From being too option intense all the way to being bland seems to be many veterans impressions of those rules.

I am not saying your ideas are without merit though, because many things I see in there sound far better as psychic powers than quite a few I saw during that time.

The point I am trying to make without being insulting is that you are essentially taking a simple game with strightforward mechanics and trying to cram everything 40K into it. Not even GW had the huevos to suggest special characters in SH.

commandergabriel
30-03-2009, 14:46
I agree with Hellfury. I also think that the game should be left the way it was originally intended. Terminators vs. Stealers. If you want to substitute CSM Terminators vs. Ork Boys, then go ahead, but keep the 'blip' system, combat and shooting all the same. IIRC, the Journal put out rules for imperial guard which gave each guardsman the ability to use 5 action points per model, per turn, rather than the 4 the terminators got.

I played 1st edition with all the expansions. I loved them, but found them to be very difficult to get newcomers in my gaming group to enjoy. 2nd edition (although much watered down) became easier for newcomers to get involved, and a 25 page rule book was less dauting to explain. Also, the compatibility of the card sections in each edition made it great to combine sets.

I don't think that table size is a worry because (I think it safe to say that) we are all used to gaming on 4x6 tables. With apocolypse our table sizes are growing bigger.

I hoping this rumor is true because I'm ready for it.

Ghostwolf
30-03-2009, 15:33
Perhaps playing 40k might be better suited to what you are after?

That is what you trying to turn space hulk into afterall. A facsimile of that much larger squad based game.

GW tried that once (genestealer expansion). It sucked large green donkey testicles.
It bogged the game down so much that they had the bright idea of starting completely from scratch all over again with 2nd ed. They missed the boat with that edition as well. From being too option intense all the way to being bland seems to be many veterans impressions of those rules.

I am not saying your ideas are without merit though, because many things I see in there sound far better as psychic powers than quite a few I saw during that time.

The point I am trying to make without being insulting is that you are essentially taking a simple game with strightforward mechanics and trying to cram everything 40K into it. Not even GW had the huevos to suggest special characters in SH.

A good argument well made. What I was really trying to do there was play the "if" card not the "this will happen" card. The second ed Space Hulk rules are great and very simple adjustments to the rules can get you something a little unique, those psychic rules I suggested were thought up very quickly and sit well in the action/command point system. They give you an edge, but at a cost.

I guess I was trying to appeal to the large group of 40K fans as well. I started with Space Crusade, progressed to Space Marine (Epic) and then Space Hulk & 40K around the same time.

I think that there is lots of scope for Space Hulk to give it more options rather than just the story driven narrative in the mission book (don't get me wrong the mission book is excellent) with out making it overly complicated. 2nd Ed opened the can of worms but did nothing with it. Let's hope for more this time :)

Patriarch
30-03-2009, 18:48
The reason the game did not translate well to other armies or power armoured marines was because the terminators are supposed to be at a massive disadvantage in CC with a Stealer, and CC is all the Stealers have until you factor in hybrids. How can you represent an Eldar Guardian rather than a Terminator in Space Hulk? Instead of "probably dead" in CC with a Stealer, you say "definately dead"?

Any non-Terminator faction just gets bogged down in the corridors where it puts out a meagre fraction of the firepower. This was clear in the mission which accompanied the "Power Armour" rules in WD. 20 Marines in power armour (supposedly the equivalent of 2 squads of Terminators). In order to balance this mighty force, the Stealers got...1 blip per turn. Which is the amount they get in the intro mission for 1 Terminator squad which the marines are supposed to win anyway.

I must be one of the few who likes the psychic rules from the Genestealer supplement. It completely changes the game, but to another game I enjoyed. If the Marine loses all his Librarians and the Stealers are still fielding Hybrids, the marines are toast. However if the Marines start losing Terminators in a regular game, they are usually toast anyway. Other than that, it's all about pulling off neat combos with your tissue-paper hybrids, or blasting whole roomfulls of Purestrains it would have taken dozens of turns to deal with otherwise.

Likewise the Captains and other expanded rules from "Deathwing" added to the game, but this doesn't detract at all from the original missions.

I have a horrible suspicion that if this does come about, it will be purely for the purposes of allowing GW to retain the copyright in some way, rather than actually bring out a brilliant game to make dosh (and recruit more gamers). Therefore it may well be

a) out for all of 5 minutes (snap up a copy as soon as they appear)
and/or

b) not very good. Like 2nd-edition-not-very-good.

LonelyPath
30-03-2009, 19:54
I enjoyed the psychic powers system from Genestealer myself, it slowed the game down a little at first, but once you got the hang of it all it wasn't much different from rolling to shoot or attack in close combat. If they were to bring the psy powers back, they would need to be simplified and cut down in number. Seeing at when Genestealer came out there were hundreds of powers in the 40k game, literally hundreds (though nowhere near as many compared to the chaos rewards and attributes in the Slaves to Darknessbook where you'd roll a d1000 on tables! lol) and over the years GW have cut down and simplified psychics as they've gone. There's no longer a phase dedicated to it, speeding that up nicely. All we need are nice simple powers that would allow things like:

1. Shoot twice for 1 AP
2. Allow a single reroll for that model until the beginning of its next turn.
3. Use a Command Point for free/addition CP added to current total.
4. move (teleport) that miniature up to 8 squares (if not in line of sight roll d6, on a 1 they appear in a wall and die).
5. Instantly kill 1 miniature.

Not much, very basic and allows some bonuses. Play down the psychic powers instead of some monsters that have been out there before.

As for plastics, the BFMC and AOBR boxes have/had plastic termies and stealers that worked well enough, they likely have the molds for the stealers still and if they can produce and sell a set like Black reach for £40 I'm sure they could fit about 10 termies, 15-20 stealers and some (lots) tiles in there and up the price to £50. but, at the same time, if they want to reel in new fans, who'll be willing to pay such a hefty price tag for a board game?

Hellfury
30-03-2009, 20:22
but, at the same time, if they want to reel in new fans, who'll be willing to pay such a hefty price tag for a board game?

You mean like people who bought Descent, Tide of Iron, Twilight Imperium and other big box board games who typically charge in excess of $75-$90 USD (£50-£65 roughly)?

Arkham Horror is one of FFG's best selling games if not the best selling game they have and it doesn't include nearly as much stuff as what space hulk would potentially include. It sells for $60 retail. (£45 roughly)

soviet
30-03-2009, 21:03
I'm a huge fan of the original Space Hulk and I'm really looking forward to a new edition - as long as they don't rip out the old system and put in some variation of standard 40k instead.

That said, I can see how they would want to broaden the scope of the game beyond Terminators vs. Stealers so as to encourage people to try out other armies. I think there is a way they can do that while still keeping the same overall dynamic.

Basically, just replace 'Terminators' with 'heavily armoured shooty elites'. The game essentially becomes focused on crack units *of any race* infiltrating space hulks and killing genestealers. Every race has something suitable:

SM & CSM - Terminators, obviously
IG - Stormtroopers
Inquisition - Stormtroopers, Sisters, Grey Knights, Deathwatch
Eldar - Avengers? Dragons? Scorpions, even? Spiders are the obvious choice but they would break the game wide open.
Dark Eldar: Incubi? Warriors?
Tau - Stealth teams
Necrons - Immortals
Orks - Meganobz

You could put in different little special rules for each of these units and still keep the same basic game. I think it would work.

Armydillo978
30-03-2009, 21:31
Hopefully they'll keep the price reasonable. I've seen plenty of the big box w/big price tag games still on the shelf and they're usually the ones that don't sell as quick as the big box w/moderate price tag.

For me, the higher the sticker shock, the less sets I'll be able to afford. Hopefully they'll go low to moderate and try to make the money off the volume sales, since I think many of us would purchase multiple copies if it's good.

Messiah
30-03-2009, 21:31
You mean like people who bought Descent, Tide of Iron, Twilight Imperium and other big box board games who typically charge in excess of $75-$90 USD (£50-£65 roughly)?

That would be me, and if Fantasy flight Games publish Space Hulk, I would Buy it in an instant! So the question is, would GW let them?

Hellfury
30-03-2009, 21:48
That would be me, and if Fantasy flight Games publish Space Hulk, I would Buy it in an instant! So the question is, would GW let them?

There is no question about that. It will be a GW production. The recent license granted to FFG to reproduce GW boardgames did not extend into boardgames that use miniatures as a predominant component of the game. Space Hulk was specifically mentioned as excluded from the license.

While Talisman has recently been released with miniatures, they apparently are not considered to be a predominant component of the game.

Here is the news from Febraury 2008 regarding this:
http://www.gameshark.com/entertainment/new...h-Agreement.htm (http://www.gameshark.com/entertainment/news/23364/Fantasy-Flight-and-Games-Workshop-Reach-Agreement.htm)

The agreement does not include certain GW titles in which miniatures feature as the predominant component of the game, such as Space Hulk and Blood Bowl.

Cergorach
30-03-2009, 21:55
While I would love to see a new Space Hulk, especially with the rumored plastic board pieces, I see a few problems.

Originally the Terminators and Genestealers where mounted on 25mm bases, recently the Terminators where made a little bigger, positioned a bit more dynamically, and placed on 40mm bases. Playing Space Hulk on 25mm square game boards with 40mm based Terminators is not going to work (placing all five behind each other is taking up 20cm or eight squares). That leaves two options:
1.) The Terminators supplied with the new Space Hulk on 25mm bases, but that is honestly a problem. Suddenly it is acceptable to play with new terminators on 25mm bases in Warhammer 40,000 (GW always states that it's legal to mount the miniatures on the bases they were originally supplied with). And the new Terminators are relatively big for a 25mm base, they will 'stick' out, that's a problem is the plastic game boards are indeed 3D...
2.) The game board squares are increased to (at least) 40mm square. That opens up a whole different can of worms, because that makes some of the missions in 1st and 2nd edition Space Hulk relatively HUGE! I am still thinking of making a 3D board for Space Hulk and using the new 40mm based Terminators and using ~50mm squares (lets me use it easier for RPGs that work with 1"=5' scale), Mission 2 'Exterminate' is originally a little over a meter long and can be played on almost any kitchen table. At 50mm/square, it becomes over two meters long, not playable on most kitchen tables. At 40mm/square it is still over 1,65m long, still reasonably difficult to setup a simple game of Space Hulk on the kitchen table. Given the size I think it is going to be difficult for GW to position this as a simple board game, given the space needed to play a game.

It might be possible that GW will position Space Hulk in the same way the positioned Mighty Empires, in a small box that is made up of flat '3D' plastic tiles and not making it a complete game. I suspect that this would be the most cost effective, they would only have to make a single frame and pack it a few times to a box (same way as Might Empires).

Please understand that the above is not a rumor, just my own speculation on the matter.

Bregalad
30-03-2009, 22:22
It is a board game with its own miniatures. Your argumentaion makes it reasonable, that the board game miniatures are not directly compatible with 40k rules (size, base), but nobody said they would.

Netherghoul
30-03-2009, 22:58
ah maybe they will release it in 1/72 :p

Ben
30-03-2009, 23:16
I imagine using bigger squares they will have less rectangular and more square maps to make it easier to fit on a playing surface. I imagine any starter will fit on a 4x4.

I'd really like to see what GW do with the miniatures.

I'd also like to see the basic set not comprise more than the rules equivalent of space hulk/deathwing/some balanced psychic rules. While I'd love to see hybrids, if they were in an expansion and got six months more playtesting to get them right, that'd be better than everything in one box but with balance problems.

For other races I think the easiest to bringin would be chaos and orks would be the most tactically interesting.

Imagine a shoota gets one dice and a twin linked shoota 2. A shoota/burna gets one dice and one flamer shot, and a shoota/rokkit gets one dice and one rokkit shot.

Already you're adding another level of tension for the ork player. Do you get more combi shoota + burna/rokkit and have worse overwatch fire, or do you keep upgrades to a minimum and have more MANZ. When do you use your precious one shot weapons?

I tihnk that wold make Orks in mega armour the most challenging faction to play. You don't have multiple flamer shots, and every model you give a flamer or missile shot to makes you're overwatch in the face of stealer rushes worse.

LonelyPath
30-03-2009, 23:57
You mean like people who bought Descent, Tide of Iron, Twilight Imperium and other big box board games who typically charge in excess of $75-$90 USD (£50-£65 roughly)?

Arkham Horror is one of FFG's best selling games if not the best selling game they have and it doesn't include nearly as much stuff as what space hulk would potentially include. It sells for $60 retail. (£45 roughly)

OUCH! Those are some pricy games.

@ Netherghoul - LOL!

borithan
31-03-2009, 00:19
There really isn't much new about this rumor. There was a rumor thread from a Games Day a few years ago about an interview/chat with Jervis about Space Hulk. He confirmed that it was in the works, would be all plastic (as cardboard is way too expensive these days, which is why GW doesn't do cardboard terrain, inserts or counters anymore)Shame about the cardboard... though I presume it is more that it is too expensive to make it worthwhile for them to sell cardboard stuff for the prices people would be willing to pay for it, rather than cardboard actually costs more than plastic (as presumably people would be willing to pay more for robust plastic stuff than they would for cardboard)?



Plastic pieces also means they can't really expand in White Dwarf like they used to.Well, they could still do extra missions, just not actually providing stuff in White Dwarf to expand the floor set.

While I don't think they would provide anything past genestealers they might provide genestealer hybrids... I would certainly like to see a few of those. Don't expect is though. If they did have options for other races it would have to be in the confines of what the game is meant to be like, so no point having rules for every possible figure. Just have equivalent units for other forces, both as the gribblies, and as the boarders. They would have to play differently to make it worthwhile, but the main point of the game should always be kept in mind.



You mean like people who bought...Tide of Iron,Like myself... great fun. However, I think it was "gamers" who bought that. A non-gaming parent who happens to be at the local toy shop is going to balk at a price tag of £50 when you can get cleudo for £15 or whatever. And while the comparison between the games may seem weird to us in the know it wouldn't to many of the uninitiated.



The Terminators supplied with the new Space Hulk on 25mm bases, but that is honestly a problem. Suddenly it is acceptable to play with new terminators on 25mm bases in Warhammer 40,000 (GW always states that it's legal to mount the miniatures on the bases they were originally supplied with).From what I have heard the new Terminators are provided with both the 40mm bases and the 25mm bases, so that was already legal.



ah maybe they will release it in 1/72 Finally! My Panthers would be compatible with 40k figures! The British and German army could combine to deal with the sudden genestealer invasion. Lets see how they deal with SMLE and MG42 fire.

Hellfury
31-03-2009, 03:06
While I would love to see a new Space Hulk, especially with the rumored plastic board pieces, I see a few problems.

Originally the Terminators and Genestealers where mounted on 25mm bases, recently the Terminators where made a little bigger, positioned a bit more dynamically, and placed on 40mm bases. Playing Space Hulk on 25mm square game boards with 40mm based Terminators is not going to work (placing all five behind each other is taking up 20cm or eight squares). That leaves two options:
1.) The Terminators supplied with the new Space Hulk on 25mm bases, but that is honestly a problem. Suddenly it is acceptable to play with new terminators on 25mm bases in Warhammer 40,000 (GW always states that it's legal to mount the miniatures on the bases they were originally supplied with). And the new Terminators are relatively big for a 25mm base, they will 'stick' out, that's a problem is the plastic game boards are indeed 3D...
2.) The game board squares are increased to (at least) 40mm square. That opens up a whole different can of worms, because that makes some of the missions in 1st and 2nd edition Space Hulk relatively HUGE! I am still thinking of making a 3D board for Space Hulk and using the new 40mm based Terminators and using ~50mm squares (lets me use it easier for RPGs that work with 1"=5' scale), Mission 2 'Exterminate' is originally a little over a meter long and can be played on almost any kitchen table. At 50mm/square, it becomes over two meters long, not playable on most kitchen tables. At 40mm/square it is still over 1,65m long, still reasonably difficult to setup a simple game of Space Hulk on the kitchen table. Given the size I think it is going to be difficult for GW to position this as a simple board game, given the space needed to play a game.

First of all, board tile spaces are just a touch over 30mm square. This affects your initial measurements your argument is based upon by some degree.

I have been having an on going debate with another poster on Boardgamegeek regarding this very same issue.

He contends that board sizes that are 40mm or even 50mm square is nigh unplayable because they are so 'Huge'.

My position is that he is full of it. My Space Hulk project is currently proving it.

Here is the info he has submitted where he lists lengths and widths of each mission in varying sizes of tile spaces:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/389042

In his effort to discredit enlarged board sizes (keep in mind that board tile spaces are already 30mm square) he has done nothing but prove that the board size is still quite playable on a 4'x6' board for all but the most unusual missions found in space hulk campaigns book. ('Last Stand' mission couldn't be played on anything less than a 12' long table even in the original size.)

The real estate for such board games is not uncommon either. Arkham horror, memoir '44, Descent all share similar table sprawl.
Board gamers are increasing willing to play on large table areas. Wargamers are already accustomed to such by default.

Project Hulk (http://www.vitruvianzeke.com/ProjectHulk/ProjectHulk.html) shows how playable a 3D 40mm based tile set can be on a 4'x6' table.

My own project is going to prove that 50mm based tile sets are equitable in playability on a tabletop that all gamers (war or board) are accustomed to.

The point of all of this is that there is no need to worry about any possible design changes regarding tiles spaces or base size. It really is a non issue.

As for legality of base size when termies are taken from space hulk and used in 40K, all I can do is a big sigh of "whatever". Such anal retentive issues I will leave to the TFG who I refuse to play against. This too really is a non issue.

madprophet
31-03-2009, 04:22
Sounds yummy!!!! Yes Please!!!!

Hellebore
31-03-2009, 04:40
Anyone tried using the Warhammer Quest random dungeon deck to create a completely random space hulk? That would be fun.

Hellebore

Lord Raneus
31-03-2009, 04:42
The bigger the better, I say!
I honestly don't see the problem with a *huge* set of starship corridors...:D

IAMNOTHERE
31-03-2009, 08:34
The random dungeon set would be a cool idea for exploration games but not missions. Anyone ever played Zombies?

static grass
31-03-2009, 11:07
Hellfury every word of your post is gospel.

I really don't see all of these "issues" people have. I am going to play space hulk with termies on the big bases no matter what, because of precisely what you said, the original tile size is 30mm which means a termie base spills 5mm over each side. I think my opponent will understand what tile I am on.

I used to play SH on a table tennis board so I really don't care about the size of the game :D

Pacific
31-03-2009, 11:17
I didn't ever play the 2nd edition of Space Hulk. I know it was less popular, was that just becase of the removal of the turn timing, or were there other fundamental changes to the rules system?

I completely agree about the original game - From what I remember the 'Genestealer' expansion really damaged the game system, and I think my friends and I played it a couple of times, for the novelty, before returning to the standard game with Deathwing.

xerxeshavelock
31-03-2009, 11:41
Rather than using Hybrids to expand the Stealer force I would prefer some other organism. This would be a great opportunity to introduce some new Nid greatures, or even something non-Nid based. As a creature with no previous background it could be designed to enhance the game, rather than risking the integrity of the system or background.

You could have something like the old Inquisitor Krypman Hunter creatures (think The Thing), wierd Hulk Rats, Space Wraiths, Ferro Beasts (TM), or other stuff that could be found on abandoned space ships.

Edit - wishlisting, sorry, but there doesn't seem to be much evidence at the moment so maybe thread should be moved?

Frogczar
31-03-2009, 14:43
Anyone tried using the Warhammer Quest random dungeon deck to create a completely random space hulk? That would be fun.

Hellebore

The 1st edition Space Hulk expansion "Deathwing" contained a deck of "geomorph" tiles for making random Hulks. Deathwing added a lot of depth to the basic game and was a lot of fun! The expansion won the Origin's award for Best Fantasy or Science Fiction Boardgame of 1990.

-Frog

Patriarch
31-03-2009, 14:47
I didn't ever play the 2nd edition of Space Hulk. I know it was less popular, was that just becase of the removal of the turn timing, or were there other fundamental changes to the rules system?
Marine Command Points could only be spent in the Marines turn (to boost marines forward or shoot a bit more). They couldn't be saved for the Stealer turn to fire "reaction shots" with flamers, unjam bolters etc etc, thereby removing a major element of tension.
Flamers were completely changed - they were made very precise. You targeted individual squares, spending ammo on each one. If you wanted to "block" a square, you had to use up twice as much ammo. Sections could not be blocked as per 1st ed; 4 shots and you could no longer complete Missions 1 and 4 without a reload.
Some blips contained 0 stealers, which is really stupid.
Bolters replaced rolling 2 normal d6 for "bolter dice" which showed "hit", "miss" or "sustained hit". If you fired overwatch, you had a normal d6 to show a jam. Aside from "sustained", the probabilities were exactly the same, just a clunkier way of doing it.
On the "fresh" missions, i.e. ones which were written entirely for 2nd ed, there seemed to be an awful lot of marine-friendly straight corridors.
Sergeants came with power swords as standard - a good idea I thought, and hardly game-breaking.



I completely agree about the original game - From what I remember the 'Genestealer' expansion really damaged the game system, and I think my friends and I played it a couple of times, for the novelty, before returning to the standard game with Deathwing.
I dunno about damaging. It made it a different game, to be sure. I see the hybrids/psionics as optionals, not permanent upgrades. They didn't make the non-psychic missions any less fun. Plus each mission is individually tailored to be as fair as possible, whether or not psychics are present. Space Hulk never really suited the army list/points system of WH40k.

commandergabriel
31-03-2009, 15:17
Let's not forget that we are comparing alot of what is NOT verified to what we are used to in previous editions. I don't think that GW is going to go back to the 25mm terminator bases when all of the terminators are now being supplied on larger bases. Also the floor tiles; although it would be great to have a complete 3D terrain set (i.e. walls included), I think that ONLY floor tiles will be included (with the possibility of having the floor pieces compatible with the CoD building sets; this way anyone could add walls, if they wish). I'm confident that GW would upsize the floor tiles to make the current terminator bases fit since they already posted upsize floor tiles (available via download) on their website.

Another point to make here is about the missions; if the floor tiles are bigger in the re-release, then I could probably go out on a limb here and safely state that a NEW book of missions would be created to fit onto 4x4 game surfaces. I highly doubt that we would be given a new look, new box, new rules, new pieces, new counters, new minis and then play the SAME missions that we had 20 years ago. That would be boring; not to mention it would take away from the creativity and depth of the GW universe.

...btw... the Deathwing expansion was the greatest thing...

Hellfury
31-03-2009, 16:05
Some blips contained 0 stealers, which is really stupid.
Not at all. Those "0" blips were malfunction blips and their sole purpose is to fake out the marine players, driving them to deal with a certain portion of the hulk while actual blips containing stealers maneuvered into a better position.
The marine player never knew which was which so the fake out usually accomplished what it was for if you played it smart.

Its the tiny nuances such as this that made it one of the few times when 2nd ed actually improved the game over 1st ed.


Let's not forget that we are comparing alot of what is NOT verified to what we are used to in previous editions. I don't think that GW is going to go back to the 25mm terminator bases when all of the terminators are now being supplied on larger bases. Also the floor tiles; although it would be great to have a complete 3D terrain set (i.e. walls included), I think that ONLY floor tiles will be included (with the possibility of having the floor pieces compatible with the CoD building sets; this way anyone could add walls, if they wish). I'm confident that GW would upsize the floor tiles to make the current terminator bases fit since they already posted upsize floor tiles (available via download) on their website. I completely agree with all points you made.


Another point to make here is about the missions; if the floor tiles are bigger in the re-release, then I could probably go out on a limb here and safely state that a NEW book of missions would be created to fit onto 4x4 game surfaces. I highly doubt that we would be given a new look, new box, new rules, new pieces, new counters, new minis and then play the SAME missions that we had 20 years ago. That would be boring; not to mention it would take away from the creativity and depth of the GW universe.

I am not so sure about this one, but as you said it takes a lot of presumption to guess whats going on.

For instance, if the rules are pretty much unchanged with the exception of slight tweaks here and there, then I think it is perfectly reasonable to supply the 2nd ed missions in their entirety back into the game. This would be a good opportunity to tweak them a bit and make sure that they are truly balanced out. The missions more than anything else in the space hulk game need the most attention as they are what dictates whether space marines easily win, or are easily defeated. (spaces of corridors, placement of doors, blind corners making overwatch difficult, etc. the list is quite large when considering every possible avenue of the design plot.)
The old missions work for the most part, and are anything but boring when you consider that you have 18 missions from second edition missions book, another 17 missions from the 2nd ed white dwarf campaign expansions (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/233568.page#622885) to choose from. Those 35 missions alone give you a lot of replay value. That doesn't even take into account the possibility of including missions found in the space hulk campaigns book.

But thats not to say I wouldn't appreciate all new missions, but including old missions already done makes sense from money spent on design standpoint, as well as a nod to the older players of the game.

Now if they completely rework the rules as has been rumored, then I totally agree that they would be very remiss in their job to not include new missions and even new tiles for that matter. The old missions wouldn't make sense from a game design mechanic perspective.

commandergabriel
31-03-2009, 18:50
Ok... So, I'm sold on the notion that replay value would be a good thing.

NOW... What about completely NEW floor tiles in the making? Not the standard rooms or corridor pieces, but the possibility to create something different; I don't mean NOT having the standard pieces, but creating a 'few' pieces other than the cross sections, 90 degree turns or T sections that we were used to... I was trying to come up with some 'odd' layouts that are possible, but I'm not sure what one could come up with.

Anyone have any thoughts about that?

Tastyfish
31-03-2009, 20:44
Guess I'm really hoping for walls, but I can't see that happening outside of the floor being compatable with Cities of Death (in which case I hope you can mail order the sprues). Don't forget that the hulk has to fit back in the box as well as on a table, can't see that happening with anything other than floor alone. I would really love to be wrong, its the details on the old tiles that really made the hulk come to life as opposed being just a series of tunnels.

Wouldn't be suprised to see an article adding other races into it, along with a release of the CAT missions that were released as part of 2nd ed in the White Dwarf. Maybe a book or so to follow.

Hellfury
31-03-2009, 22:21
Ok... So, I'm sold on the notion that replay value would be a good thing.

NOW... What about completely NEW floor tiles in the making? Not the standard rooms or corridor pieces, but the possibility to create something different; I don't mean NOT having the standard pieces, but creating a 'few' pieces other than the cross sections, 90 degree turns or T sections that we were used to... I was trying to come up with some 'odd' layouts that are possible, but I'm not sure what one could come up with.

Anyone have any thoughts about that?

Hard to say without going over the line into rampant wishlisting. Each expansion offered new board tiles as did each white dwarf article that had new space hulk missions (both 1st and 2nd ed). There were even board tiles offered in white dwarf for 1st ed that never made it into deathwing or genstealer expansions.

I would actually be surprised if they didn't include new tile designs.

We could see such things as airducts, gantry rooms, or other special rooms/corridors that have a specialized purpose like a xenobiology lab, etc.


Guess I'm really hoping for walls, but I can't see that happening outside of the floor being compatable with Cities of Death (in which case I hope you can mail order the sprues). Don't forget that the hulk has to fit back in the box as well as on a table, can't see that happening with anything other than floor alone. I would really love to be wrong, its the details on the old tiles that really made the hulk come to life as opposed being just a series of tunnels.

Perhaps Forgeworld will expand their anphelion project or trench type system items so that they match space hulk corridors in the near future? They would be obscenely expensive, but I am already spending over $1500 on materials for my project just to construct them. So I would imagine that there would be some people out there willing to buy resin space hulk tiles made by GW no matter how expensive they were.

Count Sinister
31-03-2009, 23:51
The most important thing, as far as I'm concerned, is that Space Hulk is coming out again. Barring a complete disaster, I don't think that GW are going to mess it up. How could you, with such a great game. Besides, if people are unhappy with the 3rd edition (as inevitably some people will be), there is nothing to stop them returning to second or first edition mechanics.
Three things about this news have me excited:
1) As above - Space Hulk will be available again!
2) It *could* have plastic floor tiles. I would love a 3D table (i.e., one with walls), but if I can do that with some Cities of Death sets added to the basic game, then I'll be a happy man.
3) Space Hulk will be available again! (Yes, I know that was also the first thing on my list, but it's important to mention again, particularly since some people are ALREADY trying to find problems when it is still just a rumour. Can't everybody just be happy it's coming out again?)
Excellent!

Starchild
01-04-2009, 04:11
Not at all. Those "0" blips were malfunction blips and their sole purpose is to fake out the marine players... Its the tiny nuances such as this that made it one of the few times when 2nd ed actually improved the game over 1st ed.

That's funny. I could have sworn using '0' blips in games of 1st ed. Spacehulk when I played the Stealers. Or maybe my memory is getting hazy? :confused:

Anyway, perhaps the new Spacehulk will ditch square tile movement altogether in favour of much more dynamic ranged movement (as seen in the other core games). Then there would be no issues about base size, so the game would play more like Kill Team instead of chess or checkers. :eyebrows:

Scryer in the Darkness
01-04-2009, 05:37
That's funny. I could have sworn using '0' blips in games of 1st ed. Spacehulk when I played the Stealers. Or maybe my memory is getting hazy? :confused:
Ditto. I've never played 2nd Edition, only 1st, and I seem to remember '0' blips... but that was a long time ago... :confused:

Hellebore
01-04-2009, 05:51
Bah, Space hulk is for chumps. Leet noobs who never played wargames started their journey with Space Crusade. amirite?

Sigh, space crusade has far more variety than space hulk so it would allow for racial expansion far more.

Hellebore

The Dude
01-04-2009, 05:56
I got given a near mint copy of Space Crusade a couple of years ago. So much awesome.

murrytheskull
01-04-2009, 06:06
Space Crusade was the game that got me into the hobby too.

Hero Quest and Space Crusade were massive at the time. Although i think there is more competition from video games these days, a space crusade/hulk game would work pretty well as an entry level game. As helbore points out it had alot more variety than space hulk in terms of minitures. You could play with up to 4 players if i recall correctly.

Im gonna jump on the Space Crusade is better than Space Hulk bandwagon. C'mon it had chaos androids!

Hellfury
01-04-2009, 06:35
That's funny. I could have sworn using '0' blips in games of 1st ed. Spacehulk when I played the Stealers. Or maybe my memory is getting hazy? :confused:


Ditto. I've never played 2nd Edition, only 1st, and I seem to remember '0' blips... but that was a long time ago... :confused:

You guys almost made me beleive that my memory was failing in my old age for a moment.

But the zero numeral 'malfunction' blips were indeed first introdcued in 2nd ed. You might have been doing what many other players did and used the sweet looking 2nd ed blips with 1st ed rules. But thats just a guess.

perhaps you guys were thinking of the ambush blip tokens (http://homepages.tig.com.au/~tezzajw/ambushblips.jpg)? The red one which either gave you 1 genestealer or no genestealer? Now THOSE blips were a lot harder for the genestealer player to use, because even he didnt know what those blips contained until they converted.

Barsoom still has a complete 1st ed inventory of space hulk. No mention of blips with the numeral zero in the base set or any of the expansions.
http://spacehulk.barsoom.cc/

2nd ed blip inventory can be found here:
http://nimbarad.free.fr/v2sections/counters.pdf

p.s. Space Crusade is a great game with all the complex tactical thinking neccesary to distract...an 8 year old. :p ;) :angel: :D

commandergabriel
01-04-2009, 14:22
You guys almost made me beleive that my memory was failing in my old age for a moment.

But the zero numeral 'malfunction' blips were indeed first introdcued in 2nd ed. You might have been doing what many other players did and used the sweet looking 2nd ed blips with 1st ed rules. But thats just a guess.


Your memory is certainly NOT failing as the '0' blips were a great way to panic the marine player...

Modhail
01-04-2009, 14:48
My take on things given the current rumours and discussions:

Maybe the rumored plastic corridors will be vac-formed "halfwall" corridors, sort of like trenches? That way you could stack them "into" each other to fit them in the box?
Or maybe GW will market a ltd ed. "Deluxe Space Hulk Carry bag"?
Seen their recent experiments with Cities of Death, the vacform craters and the Warhammer gameboard, I wouldn't rule out 3d plastic stuff.
Iirc, the hobby articles for Space Hulk Kill Team (SHKT) advocated a sort of "half corridors" of just one wall and a floor. These could also be stacked rather easily. And could be made as snap-fits. Also an option...

If they do scale up the board sections, new missions meant to create a smaller tabletop footprint are almost guaranteed. Most likely they'll give you the old missions as online content or make you buy these as an upgrade booklet (much like the BofM "The Battle rages on" booklet).
If the rules are modified, as well as the missions, the boxed set will most likely contain less corridors and rooms, forcing you to buy 3 sets in order to be able to play the old school missions... sales are sales after all. There will most likely be a limited ed. figure to commemorate, most likely a bald, shouting Space Marine waving a weapon in the air. :rolleyes:

GW has developed a dislike of specialty dice, apart from the scatter dice. So we'll most likely see a return of the old 6+ on first shot/overwatch, 5+ on sustained fire system.
Combining this with Jervis' comments on the differences between 1st and second ed Space Hulk a few years back, we'll most likely get an up(-/down/side?)graded version of the 1st ed rules, but with simplified Psychic rules, based on the Wh40K system:
Pay #AP to do a psychic test, if passed use the power you declared before rolling. Before the game, roll 1d6 on the psychic power table, to determine which power is/powers are available to your psyker.

Core game will most likely just be Termies vs Genestealers. Maybe with some advanced rules introduced from the get go (Captains, Libbies, maybe Hybrids and Broodlord). Maybe they'll add an addenda that basically says: to play X race, replace Terminators/genestealers with # of troop type Y, their stats/rules are: bla. With the standard warning: "opponent permission only, these rules were made up on the spot and will most likely be unbalanced, yada yada, roll d6 if weirdness occurs." Or maybe they'll keep the extra races in reserve for possible expansions.
If the game catches on we'll hopefully see a few expansions. (Eventually one of those will break the game, at which point space hulk will default to the 2 most broken factions being played exclusively. After which SH will fade into history again. It is my personal hope these factions will be Carapace Armoured Ogryns vs hordes of Grots with mallets, just for weirdness sake. At some point someone might do spoof game featuring Care Bears vs hordes of Oscar the Grouches, but hopefully they'll see sense in time...;))

In summary: It may not be anything like we remember, but at least Space Hulk will be back! Yay!

commandergabriel
01-04-2009, 15:55
Care Bears? I was thinking more on the lines of "Hello Kitty"

Modhail - you do bring up some great thoughts. Librarians were a great addition to the game, and they were missed (by me) in the 2nd edition. I'm not so sure about half walls because that could seriously limit the LoS for players.

All - I'm still going on the notion that the floor tiles will be similar in layout to the 2nd edition set (the floors having the 3d detail that was printed onto the cardboard set, that is).

Less corridors and rooms is one box = the ability to play 'some' of the missions in the game; buying a second box would give you the ability to play the 'some more' missions and buying a third box would give you the ability to play 'all' of the missions. Maybe each 'add on' box would not only give you the ability to play more missions, but those missions allow you to use more terminators (as the marine player). So the first few missions that you get in one box give you 1 squad missions.

This would allow GW to supply (in 1 box) a good amount of tiles, 5 terminators, 15 stealers and enough counters to get you going. Each progressive box purchase would then give you 5 more terminators, more stealers and more counters to accomodate the growing missions and add ons.

Oh, the possibilities are endless. I'll still get a couple sets regardless. I have a son on the way and if Space Hulk disappears again, like it did before, then I'll want to be ready to play this with him when he is old enough...

Hellfury
01-04-2009, 16:15
Actually, I think care bears versus oscar the grouches to be extremely "fluffy". (sorry bad bad joke). But I could definitely see the 'care bear stare' being an effective detterent to grouchiness. All taking place within the magical underground complex of 'Care-a-lot' of course.

It could make a sweet young childrens version that would be acceptable for over protective parents.

The blips could be replaced with 'Ouchie' tokens. It is to represent the care bears sensitivity to bad vibes within their near vicinity.

And once the care bears 'stare' at the grouches, they could be reverted to happy bunnies that run off into the land of 'care-a-lot' to covort with the rest of the happy critters of that land. (game effect would be that they are removed from board)

The missions for the care bears would be to either escape from the negativity brought on by the grouches, or convert the grouches into happytime fun bunnies through hugs and smiles.
As sick and debased as that original idea sounds, if I have a daughter I want to play space hul...er I mean 'Hug a Grouch' with, then this would be an acceptable proxy system.

In the lighthearted hope of the far future, there is only smiles and giggles.

I know. I know. Report to room 101 for Imperial re-education....

Iverald
01-04-2009, 16:53
Oscars the Grouches? Hmmm... one would think that this faction is going to be popular with many people writing on Warseer :angel:

Joking aside, huzzah for Space Hulk!
Though it might mean a substantial hole in my thin student's wallet... *grumble*, *grumble* :angel:

Modhail
01-04-2009, 19:45
I've created a monster.... :(;)

Single walls could indeed raise LoS problems, especially if you add the timer.
Another option (and more feasible if GW goes for vacformed corridors) is to make 1 inch half-height walls molded integral to the floors. More trench-like but it would still give some sense of the claustrophobia of a Space Hulk.
No assembly required, so easier for the Wallmart/Target audience.
On the other hand, the Space Hulk sections I'm building are based on 40mm squares inside 3"-wide corridors with appr. 2" high walls. I've run a few test games, both in SH rules and Killteam, and LoS to our models has't been a problem in any one of them. (The bigger footprint of the layouts forces you to stand anyway in order to reach the centre of the table).

Commander Gabriel, you raise an interesting point with the "more boxes = more game" approach, I hadn't thought of that one. (Honestly I hope GW hasn't either, I'd prefer a single box to the be full game)
It could be an interesting approach for a possible expansion though. (But it could lead to GW accountancy dept. taking an "Apocalypse" approach to marketing: "Buy 5 core sets and 12 expansion sets and build the entire space hulk, save €5,-! ")

Vegeta365
01-04-2009, 19:56
Can't wait for games day to pick this up. It's like being a kid all over again

Hellfury
01-04-2009, 21:02
New rumours from BoardGameGeek!
Last post on the bottom of the page (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/380772/page/2)



I have actually seen the prototype of the new version. They are testing it out here because it's a niche market and they hope the information wouldn't leak.. well, too bad they ran into a BGG'er.

Anyway, the new version involves the following:


Plastic hallway pieces that stand on small legs so you can reach underneath with magnet sticks (explained beneath).



Each miniature has a small magnet on its base. Addionally, genestealers are fitted with a small battery which makes them move their arms



To reinforce the "realistic experience" (as stated in the manual), you are not allowed to touch the pieces directly but have to use magnetic sticks which you stick under the boards and use them to move the figures "remotely". This sounds ridicilous but actually works just fine. GW stated that if this catches on, they think about including "magnet sticks" in the Warhammer series.



SH has a new ruleset that does away with those pesky " 4 action points" and "command points" and uses a much more elegant system: you throw a little 6-sided cube with numbers 1 to 6 on it; the number you see on the top when it stops rolling is the number of "action points" you have on the turn. Genious!


Anyway I would post some pics but I don't want to breach the signed "prototype test" contract too much.

Cheers!

I have to agree that the 6 sided cube is a stroke of genius.

LonelyPath
01-04-2009, 21:12
Certainly sounds insteresting. I can't see why moving the minis by hand changes anything though and batteries on the stealers? I had 1950's sci-fi movie aliens and mosters in my head when I thought of that and couldn't help laughing. I do want to see it if this becomes the finished product though ;)

FerociousBeast
01-04-2009, 21:18
LOL. Genestealers with waving arms. Why, they'd look like fools...

Pacific
01-04-2009, 21:19
Umm.. I've only played 1st edition Space Hulk, and I'm sure I have '0 genestealer' blip counters. Was it possible that they came in one of the expansion packs?

*Heads off to the attic to take a look*

In any case, they are a good idea!

commandergabriel
01-04-2009, 21:33
I'm not sure if they did come in an expansion or not, But Hellfury has pointed out the 'ambush markers'

I do know for sure that the following were included in the basic box game (i'll try to post images of the contents):

1st Edition:
8 Blips with 1 stealer
4 Blips with 2 stealers
9 Blips with 3 stealers

2nd Edition:
9 Blips with 1 stealer
3 Blips with 2 stealers
9 Blips with 3 stealers
1 Blip with 4 stealers
1 Blip with 5 stealers
1 Blip with 6 stealers
3 blips with 0 stealers

Hellfury
01-04-2009, 21:36
Umm.. I've only played 1st edition Space Hulk, and I'm sure I have '0 genestealer' blip counters. Was it possible that they came in one of the expansion packs?
Not according to what I have in my collection, nor what is listed in the comprehensive 1st edition inventory (base set, deathwing, genestealer, space hulk campaigns book) that I posted a few posts above.


Barsoom still has a complete 1st ed inventory of space hulk. No mention of blips with the numeral zero in the base set or any of the expansions.
http://spacehulk.barsoom.cc/

2nd ed blip inventory can be found here:
http://nimbarad.free.fr/v2sections/counters.pdf


I'm not sure if they did come in an expansion or not, But Hellfury has pointed out the 'ambush markers'

I do know for sure that the following were included in the basic box game (i'll try to post images of the contents):

1st Edition:
8 Blips with 1 stealer
4 Blips with 2 stealers
9 Blips with 3 stealers

Deathwing:
2 ambush blips*
6 ambush counters:
2 blips with 1 stealer
4 blips with "false alarm"

*when the ambush blip is converted, you draw one on the ambush counters to see what you got.
It would have been much easier to say that 5-6 is one stealer and 1-4 is a false alarm.

Genestealer:
2 blips with 4 stealers
2 blips with 5 stealers
2 blips with 6 stealers

2nd Edition:
9 Blips with 1 stealer
3 Blips with 2 stealers
9 Blips with 3 stealers
1 Blip with 4 stealers
1 Blip with 5 stealers
1 Blip with 6 stealers
3 blips with 0 stealers

Added the rest of the blips from the expansions for you.

Anyways, genestealers with new and improved "rock'em sock'em rending claw action now with hivemind kungfu grip" would be super sweet. lol

"magnetic sticks"...lol

commandergabriel
01-04-2009, 21:36
Oh yeah... If the post of BBG was an april fools joke then I'm smiling... Although the D6 action points for the turn would make for great 'faster' paced action...

commandergabriel
01-04-2009, 21:39
Ok... Since Hellfury and I are working together via jedi mind reading; he was good enough to post the contents before me... so there is no need for me to! Thanks Hellfury!

(These are not the droids you are looking for... move along!)

Fafner_Ni
01-04-2009, 22:22
Oh wow, these new rumours are great. Genestealers with waving arms!, god i don't know if thats gonna be funny or creepy.

Armydillo978
01-04-2009, 22:47
It's only creepy if the genestealers high five each other after taking down a terminator.

The Dark Knight RIP
01-04-2009, 22:51
Man i hope we get official word on this soon because i got my hands on all the old rules and i want to build a bunch of terrain and start playing it with my friends ill hold off if they are just gonna rerelease it

pointedstick
01-04-2009, 22:52
Battery powered genestealers and magnetised sticks? April Fool, no way that will happen.

boogle
01-04-2009, 23:02
methinks we'll see something like this in terms of the box contents.
5 AOBR Termies
20 Stealers (probably from the old BFM set)
current plastic template set
plastic blip and action point counters
plastic board sections (enough to do the missions in the box)
Rulebook (contains all missions)

In additon we'll have:
Direct only board sections boxed set (may be available for short time with sale of Space Hulk in store)
Ymargl Broodlord
Maybe a Plastic Terminator Hero box (which can make either a Captain or Librarian)
A further missions booklet (either in electornic format - covering Deathwing and Genestealer), or purchasable, as has been said before


on the subject of the tiles, i'd imagine they will be 2 squares wide at least now to accomodate the larger base size of the Termies and also to allow for things like the Broodlord and/or Lictors

Count Sinister
01-04-2009, 23:08
I was excited about the new release, until the magnetised sticks/arm-waving 'nyds April Fools. Now I'm worried that ALL of it is just a big hoax...
I'm assuming it was an April Fools joke, because if not it would sort of be like a hybrid of 40K and "Operation". "OK, I move my space marine captain up to here, and then..." BUZZ! BUZZ! "Damn it, I touched the edge. What does he lose now, his spleen?"
Otherwise - Go Space Hulk!

rkunisch
01-04-2009, 23:18
on the subject of the tiles, i'd imagine they will be 2 squares wide at least now to accomodate the larger base size of the Termies and also to allow for things like the Broodlord and/or Lictors
Well, the floor tiles of the COD buildings are exactly the right size for a new terminator base. The design also fits hulks. Most likely we will see some new variants of them with bulkheads and some other goodies. That would be a good move, because you can sell the parts twice.

I still hope for some kind of walls as it would make the atmosphere far more dense, but considering the amount of plastic and practical questions (how to build them without glue, how to store them, etc.) I think is very unlikely.

Have fun,

Rolf.

Joewrightgm
01-04-2009, 23:20
I'm calling April Fools. That is just way too out there.

The Dude
01-04-2009, 23:51
I hate April Fools day. I can't read ANYTHING on the net :rolleyes:

Lord Raneus
02-04-2009, 02:41
It's only creepy if the genestealers high five each other after taking down a terminator.

I'm assuming "creepy" is code for "awesome" here? :D

Armydillo978
02-04-2009, 03:59
I'm assuming "creepy" is code for "awesome" here? :D

Oh yeah....the Stealers laying the smackdown on the Termies. In the endzone we have the Broodlord dancing......and the ref's penalizing him for unsportsmanlike conduct......the Marines ares given 1 Terminator back.

fattdex
02-04-2009, 04:14
It's 'Dance Steps for Space Hulk' all over again today...

borithan
02-04-2009, 11:38
p.s. Space Crusade is a great game with all the complex tactical thinking neccesary to distract...an 8 year old. :p ;) :angel: :DBUt... but... but it was for ages 10 and up!

Never really understood those age gradings... I played Cluedo when I was 6 for the first time, and it was also age 10 and up. I had no problem with it.

Patriarch
02-04-2009, 12:19
Not at all. Those "0" blips were malfunction blips and their sole purpose is to fake out the marine players, driving them to deal with a certain portion of the hulk while actual blips containing stealers maneuvered into a better position.
The marine player never knew which was which so the fake out usually accomplished what it was for if you played it smart.

The thing is, a 1-blip can do this just as well, so as a stealer player I'd rather be sure that all my blips can contribute. There's nothing more frustrating for the stealers (apart from the termies making all their overwatch shots) than starting your turn and finding out you have no new stealers. It became rapidly obvious to the Marine player which blips were zeros, because they always held off advancing. Unless the stealers are already bulldozing the marines, you don't have enough "manned" blips to act as decoys on the map. Therefore a blip that isn't acting fairly aggressively is almost always going to be a 0 (and if it does act aggressively, the marines will unmask it very soon). The rare occasions when the 0 blip forced the marines to hunt it down/waste effort defending against it never paid off the inconvenience of having no new stealers.

Having said that, a new SH would be brilliant, dud blips or not!

Max_Killfactor
02-04-2009, 12:40
I'm assuming "creepy" is code for "awesome" here? :D

I agree. There needs to be more models high fiving each other. I high five people all the time, it is awesome

Hellfury
02-04-2009, 14:59
The thing is, a 1-blip can do this just as well, so as a stealer player I'd rather be sure that all my blips can contribute. There's nothing more frustrating for the stealers (apart from the termies making all their overwatch shots) than starting your turn and finding out you have no new stealers. It became rapidly obvious to the Marine player which blips were zeros, because they always held off advancing. Unless the stealers are already bulldozing the marines, you don't have enough "manned" blips to act as decoys on the map. Therefore a blip that isn't acting fairly aggressively is almost always going to be a 0 (and if it does act aggressively, the marines will unmask it very soon). The rare occasions when the 0 blip forced the marines to hunt it down/waste effort defending against it never paid off the inconvenience of having no new stealers.

Thats one way to look at it.

Another way to look at it is that those scanner malfunction blips add a bit of realism to the game, but more importantly they increase the tactical flexibility considerably.

For example, a group of terminators are defending a certain area of the hulk. The stealer player has spread out his stealers and blips to fully encompass the circumference of the terminators defense. This means that the terminators have spread out their firepower.
Now when the genestealer player has malfunction blips faking terminators out, the terminators are wasting their turn being....pointed in a completey wrong direction. They cannot support the other terminators who are now being overwhelmed by waves of flesheating xeno scum.

Sorry, but those malfunction blip markers do serve a very good tactical purpose, one that isnt immediately apparent to some people.

commandergabriel
02-04-2009, 15:06
Well, the floor tiles of the COD buildings are exactly the right size for a new terminator base. The design also fits hulks. Most likely we will see some new variants of them with bulkheads and some other goodies. That would be a good move, because you can sell the parts twice.

I still hope for some kind of walls as it would make the atmosphere far more dense, but considering the amount of plastic and practical questions (how to build them without glue, how to store them, etc.) I think is very unlikely.

Have fun,

Rolf.

You know... I've been saying all along how great it would be for the SH floor pieces to be compatible with the CoD buildings (i.e. one could purchase CoD buildings to use the walls with the SH floors); but I never stopped to think that BOTH sets could compliment each other (i.e. using the bulk head and floor pieces from SH to make better 40k scenery...).

This way, when SH disappears again in a few years (or becomes supported like Mordheim, Necro, BB, etc.) the pieces could be repackaged as CoD scenery...

hmmmmmmm...

FerociousBeast
02-04-2009, 16:16
It became rapidly obvious to the Marine player which blips were zeros, because they always held off advancing.
Or, you could use this to your advantage by aggressively moving a zero and letting a 1 or 2 hang back at a corner without doing anything. The termie player, having seen you do the same thing a few times before, but in reverse, will assume the nonmoving blip is a decoy. AND WILL BE PULPED HAHA.

The Dude
02-04-2009, 23:31
Never really understood those age gradings... I played Cluedo when I was 6 for the first time, and it was also age 10 and up. I had no problem with it.

Until you started beating people's heads in with lead pipes and wrenches :eyebrows:

Armydillo978
02-04-2009, 23:42
Until you started beating people's heads in with lead pipes and wrenches :eyebrows:

Don't forget candlesticks.......those things leave a mark.

Messiah
03-04-2009, 00:24
Until you started beating people's heads in with lead pipes and wrenches :eyebrows:

I think youre mixing up Cluedo with Kill dr. Lucky. :p

Seriously though. I hope we get some updates on this soon. look at how much commotion this tiny rumour caused.

LonelyPath
03-04-2009, 00:57
methinks we'll see something like this in terms of the box contents.
5 AOBR Termies
20 Stealers (probably from the old BFM set)
current plastic template set
plastic blip and action point counters
plastic board sections (enough to do the missions in the box)
Rulebook (contains all missions)

In additon we'll have:
Direct only board sections boxed set (may be available for short time with sale of Space Hulk in store)
Ymargl Broodlord
Maybe a Plastic Terminator Hero box (which can make either a Captain or Librarian)
A further missions booklet (either in electornic format - covering Deathwing and Genestealer), or purchasable, as has been said before

If that is the case I would be impressed, but I doubt it somehow :(

aeon flux
03-04-2009, 06:20
It's too bad GW got rid of Genestealer Hybrids. They could really give Termies a run for their money. The Imperial Guard were going to have there own rules in the original game right?
If they just go ahead and allow for other forces to play through we can finally get some decent rules for fighting Orks inside a hulk or a Rok! Just think Harlequins vs Stealers in a hulk!

maybe that's the whole idea all along, to make a board game to play ship boading/skirmish actions, and not just termie vs stealer fare.

Jagged
03-04-2009, 14:22
I know everyone is excited about the possibilities of new plastic goodness, but I'm more interested in the rules.

Are they going to create a 3rd edition?

Will people prefer 1st over 3rd, or will GW actually manage to make a successor rule set that has all the awesome of 1st ed but better?


Agreed. I prefered the strategic options of flaming sections as opposed to squares. However I don't think they ever managed to balance the game properly. Once you'd played it a few times it was hard for the Space Marines to lose.

FerociousBeast
03-04-2009, 15:52
Yeah, judicious use of what I call the "Rule of 6" makes it very difficult to let your terminators be killed. The Rule of 6 means always keep at least 6 squares between your terminator and the closest possible genestealer. When adhered to, this means that it is impossible for a genestealer to kill your terminator in the next genestealer turn. The only way for a stealer player to overcome a terminator player who religiously sticks to the Rule of 6 in a standard scenario is through simple weight of numbers.

dicnar
03-04-2009, 16:13
methinks we'll see something like this in terms of the box contents.
5 AOBR Termies
20 Stealers (probably from the old BFM set)
current plastic template set
plastic blip and action point counters
plastic board sections (enough to do the missions in the box)
Rulebook (contains all missions)

In additon we'll have:
Direct only board sections boxed set (may be available for short time with sale of Space Hulk in store)
Ymargl Broodlord
Maybe a Plastic Terminator Hero box (which can make either a Captain or Librarian)
A further missions booklet (either in electornic format - covering Deathwing and Genestealer), or purchasable, as has been said before


on the subject of the tiles, i'd imagine they will be 2 squares wide at least now to accomodate the larger base size of the Termies and also to allow for things like the Broodlord and/or Lictors

Plus an electronic timer! Don't forget about the timer :) . Space marine player had a time limit for his moves and I heard this rumour for years that if they ever gonna re-realese Space Hulk there's gonna be some kind of a gizmo to mesure turn sequence. With sounds, bolter fire, roars and stuff. Also i doubt that templates will be needed but it all depends how they gonna change the rules. I just wonder will it still be a board game in the end.

borithan
03-04-2009, 23:59
Until you started beating people's heads in with lead pipes and wrenches :eyebrows:I would blame that more on my two occasions of playing Doom when I was about 8.

Capitán Sánchez
06-04-2009, 00:51
I have 10 SM termies and do not play Genstealers, so I would buy it depending on price.

Well, in fact, I am sure I'll buy it :wtf::p


Thank you

kizzt
06-04-2009, 03:36
I'd buy it just to get more cheap termies (seriously 25 + characters isn't enough) and i'd use the board pieces to make terrain. Come to think of it, the floor and wall pieces out of the city terrain GW already makes could suspiciously work as part of a space hulk...

alexgrunt
06-04-2009, 10:22
methinks we'll see something like this in terms of the box contents.
5 AOBR Termies [...]

Actually, I heard that the plactic termies will bear specific BA markings, so they're new ones. Still AOBR-style, but new nevertheless. Didn't have any confirmation for plastic tiles though...

static grass
06-04-2009, 11:18
Yeah, judicious use of what I call the "Rule of 6" makes it very difficult to let your terminators be killed. The Rule of 6 means always keep at least 6 squares between your terminator and the closest possible genestealer. When adhered to, this means that it is impossible for a genestealer to kill your terminator in the next genestealer turn. The only way for a stealer player to overcome a terminator player who religiously sticks to the Rule of 6 in a standard scenario is through simple weight of numbers.

I don't see how this could work as many if not all of the missions involve the termies advancing towards the stealers in some way.

Inquisitor Toth
06-04-2009, 11:19
I'd much rather see a new version of HeroQuest or Warhammer Quest :)

Hellfury
06-04-2009, 18:23
I'd much rather see a new version of HeroQuest or Warhammer Quest :)

Its a good thing this thread is about space hulk then.

thinkerman
06-04-2009, 20:18
Im really looking forward to spacehulk - isnt it funny though that while GW is moving forward there going back wards and bringing back the old favourites

I wouldnt be surprised if Heroquest or Warhammer quest get a look in at some point

Armydillo978
06-04-2009, 20:21
Im really looking forward to spacehulk - isnt it funny though that while GW is moving forward there going back wards and bringing back the old favourites

I wouldnt be surprised if Heroquest or Warhammer quest get a look in at some point

I'm sure if SH sells well, that will have an impact on whether to bring forward HQ or WQ. So, buy lots of SH. :)

Dangersaurus
07-04-2009, 01:02
I want a cool new Space Hulk game, but the rumors make it sound like it's going to be all about the neat toys and less about the game. Maybe that's just the nature of rumors... but I for one want solid gameplay, books that don't fall to pieces, carboard board sections and enough stuff in the box to play the game. Otherwise it's just a stealth 40k terrain pack.

Tastyfish
07-04-2009, 01:27
Go on, explain the need for cardboard pieces seeing as we know you're dying to tell us. We've been told that you're unlikely to see more cardboard bits than plastic as the price is about the same when you factor into account printing by a third party compared to a mass use sprue on their own machines, so if its not a case of getting more hulk for your buck, what is it?

Dangersaurus
07-04-2009, 01:32
Wow... lighten up Francis. I'll take a little from column A, a little from column B.

Starchild
07-04-2009, 01:53
I want a cool new Space Hulk game, but the rumors make it sound like it's going to be all about the neat toys and less about the game. Maybe that's just the nature of rumors... but I for one want solid gameplay, books that don't fall to pieces, carboard board sections and enough stuff in the box to play the game. Otherwise it's just a stealth 40k terrain pack.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it possible to have everything you've described?: a solid game, useful terrain pieces (either SH or 40k), a durable rule book, and highly detailed plastic models, all in one box? Including good terrain and models does not mean the game will fail; it just means there's a reason for buying the set, whether the rules are good or not. :eyebrows:

If anything, GW will *not* want a new version of Spacehulk to go the way of the Specialist Games. No, I think they will carefully consider their decisions to make a game that will remain in stores and shelves for many years to come; here's hoping anyway.

The Dude
07-04-2009, 02:26
I think it absolutely IS just the way of rumours. People latch onto the tangible bits first. Rules and Models. They're not really going to discuss the quality of the rulebooks binding, particularly this far out.

Models and board sections would be developed very early, and therefore get leaked as rumours sooner. Rules and gameplay would be the next things to leak. Be patient and have faith. I'm sure GW aren't going to make this "just a stealth 40k terrain pack"

static grass
07-04-2009, 08:28
It us a good point by starchild though. I would expect a collectors edition release for the return of space hulk. Even if it is just a hard bound book it would still be pretty cool.

Space hulk unfortunately is an ideal specialist game as it requires virtually no support. I wouldn't expect more than the original game plus maybe a deathwing 2.

helvexis
07-04-2009, 10:42
Just watched Robocop, and was reminded of Space Crusade (y'know, ED209 does look a little like the chaos dreadnougt, and the weapons the bad guys use are "assault cannons"), and was wondering if that wouldn't be a better re-release/remake for GW to enthrall a new market?

Think about it: it's still on a Space Hulk (if memory serves), but the entire gamut of the WH40,000 universe could be represented. Weren't there even early Necrons (well, androids) in the 1990 game?

Ooh the possibilities! They could even retain the different coloured plastic for the different races (a step below pre-painted miniatures in tackyness sure, but at least you could still paint over them yourself), and the swappable-weapons.

Hey, even if it is "just" space-hulk they release, I don't see why they couldn't supply the Terminator squads with differnt arms for flexibility. It wouldbe like DOW II before each mission...

Hmm, ain't wishlisting fun?

Helvexis' flatmate

zedeyejoe
07-04-2009, 11:07
Once you'd played it a few times it was hard for the Space Marines to lose.

Hard to lose? Perhaps they were not playing me? Trick with Genestealers is to attack in mass, once you get in to HtH the Marines are doomed.

mortus
07-04-2009, 11:13
The androids I believe were in the Space crusade game.

In regards to the contents You have a comparable amount to the AOBR contents, I'd go along the lines of 10-15 Termies and double that on genies plus scenery.

And I could see all the minatures being the newest versions, the moulds will have made their initial cost layout and anything else is a positive bonus.

If the rules have to be any take the best of 1st and improve, nothing like a time limit to make you sweat.

burtnernie
07-04-2009, 12:47
Please bring this baby out... loved space hulk and weasels on fleabay always outbid me when I try to get my hands on a copy... :cries:

Patriarch
07-04-2009, 12:57
However I don't think they ever managed to balance the game properly. Once you'd played it a few times it was hard for the Space Marines to lose.
Depends very much on the mission. The 1st, 4th and 6th missions from the boxed game, plus the last Deathwing mission "Alien Lifeforms", we found were all but impossible for the stealers to win against an experienced marine player, no matter how good (or lucky) the stealer player was. The other missions have proven to be much more balanced.


Yeah, judicious use of what I call the "Rule of 6" makes it very difficult to let your terminators be killed. The Rule of 6 means always keep at least 6 squares between your terminator and the closest possible genestealer. When adhered to, this means that it is impossible for a genestealer to kill your terminator in the next genestealer turn. The only way for a stealer player to overcome a terminator player who religiously sticks to the Rule of 6 in a standard scenario is through simple weight of numbers.
This works as long as the mission allows the Terminators to keep their distance. In most cases the Terminators are moving through the map to either escape over the other side, collect and recover something, or reach a control panel etc. There is a good chance the marines won't be able to stick to the 6-square principle whilst meeting the mission objectives.
In addition to swamping the marines, the stealers should aim to outmanouvre them where possible. Even a single stealer is usually enough to kill a marine facing the wrong way, so if the situation allows, a pair of stealers can pretty much guarantee killing a marine if they can approach from two sides at once.

FerociousBeast
07-04-2009, 17:17
The point is that you move cautiously. The rule of 6 doesn't mean you never move forward, it just means you do so cautiously.

static grass
07-04-2009, 17:23
The point is you can move as cautiously as you want but you cant shoot around corners nor into entry points.

FerociousBeast
07-04-2009, 18:23
The point is it has worked successfully for me, despite your theoryhammer, so hopefully there will be a rules update in the coming version [bringing discussion back on topic] to make things a little better for the stealers. Perhaps by adding some factor of unpredictability (command points perhaps) for the other side as well, beyond merely blips per turn.

Patriarch
07-04-2009, 18:50
Perhaps by adding some factor of unpredictability (command points perhaps) for the other side as well, beyond merely blips per turn.
That's an interesting idea - definately adds an aura of tension, and expands the tactical range of the stealers. Might be a bit overpowering though (if the stealers are allowed to use it to rush marines into CC). Perhaps if the stealer CPs were only allocated to blips rather than models, this would allow for outmanouvring the marines without launching unstoppable charges.

wilycoyote
07-04-2009, 21:04
The rumour is awesome, but I then began to wonder about something.

Most here assume that the "squares will be 40mm to accomadate the new terms etc, this is double the original. Therefore, everything is double the size.

I started to wonder at just how many "pieces" of hulk you could reasonably expect in the boxed set, if you have to also include some 10 new terms and twenty stealers. People were also speculating about sliding doors - these would need some form of door frame.

I suspect the numbers will be relatively small, allowing only small missions and leading to serious cash having to be spent to get to some of the more extensive layouts of the original.

Just a quick point about Space Crusade, it was never aGW game (albeit WD did produce some material) it was produced by Milton Bradley - the figures were still copyrighted to GW.


Well my credit card wil see some exercise if this arrive before this Christmas, whatever happens

WilyC

Modhail
07-04-2009, 22:04
First off:
The squares aren't actually twice as large, I see this repeated on several forums.
The squares of 1st and 2nd edition are 30mm, so 40mm squares would only be a 25% increase, instead of a 100% increase in size... The fit would be a bit tighter, but most layouts would still fit on a standard 4'x6' game table. (The few that wouldn't were already considered to be impractically large in previous editions...)
The increase in size isn't as dramatic as some would like to think...

What's in the box will, I think, depend most on what GW intends to do with the floorboards.
I they do backtrack on earlier statements and go back to cardboard, expect to see the full set of floorboards. In this case the game will also most likely contain the full complement of 2 squads of termies, at least 20 genestealers, and most likely some extras. (As they won't dare include less than the "classic" editions. This is after all "New and Improved" Space Hulk.)

If the floors are plastic, I think you'll need several sets to build up a collection equivalent to the old SH game. The question is then, how elaborate will the sections be? The more elaborate, the less you will get per set.... If it's just floors, walls and separate standup doors, or vac-formed "gutters", I'd expect each set to include 1/3rd of the old SH set, with 1 squad of 5 terminators per set.
If the "sliding doors, bells and whistles" rumours are true, I'd expect modular CoD like kits, with each set giving you enough to make 1 room, 3 junctions and 12 squares worth of corridors. You'd need 6 sets to build up a full "classic" corridor set. But, now we've crossed the border into "Expensiveland" (One such set would equal a weight of plastic similar to the Imperial Sector set).
In that case I'd estimate these to be "upgrade" sets to the core game without any miniatures in it, as a single set is next to useless for playing games in.

My best guess* for box content, going by the established rumours and above considerations would be this: A set core set containing 10 termies, a captain and librarian, 20(+?)stealers and a Patriar...Broodlord, a full "classic" set of cardboard floorboards, with clip on sliding doors (Warhammer Quest style).
The extra characters and the sliding doors would provide the "ooh-shiny" factor compared to the old sets, hopefully luring in both those new to the game, and old vets alike (in GW's thinking at least).
Next to this could be a release of full plastic corridor kits, as a hybrid 40k/SH terrain release (Planetstrike?). These would be of the 1/6th of a "classic" set content, the SH sliding doors would "conveniently" clip into these corridors...

My rationale behind this theory:
GW has the plastic tech to do all this, the SH/40K piggybacking for the terrain would maximise the potential buyer pool. (This could aid in convincing the beancounters at HQ...) The main problem is the expected price/profit ratio on the plastic , hence the emphasis on "could" for the plastic corridors. If it isn't (expected to be) profitable enough, it will not be done.
The cardboard I assume to be something GW would consider in this case for the following reasons:
-You can only make a game's box so big and they don't want to make the box insanely expensive by including a full plastic set.
-A crippled game with a less than minimal complement of floorboards would NOT sell well. There needs to be a sense of "value for money", however tenuous
-The printing could be "safely" farmed out to low-wage, IP-liberal countries: the fact that the plastic would be produced inhouse cancels out the risk of low price bootlegs of the game suddenly appearing on Ebay, as there is no complete product produced in a single location/country.

*: Disclaimer: I have NO inside knowledge whatsoever. This guess contains a generous dose of wishful thinking. Plus, it is partially based on the application of common sense, something which is known to be only intermittently applicable to GW's thinking.....;) Opinion only valid at time of posting, poster reserves the right to amend/modify his opinion at any moment, without prior notification or reason given. No fish have been harmed in the making of this post.

Loki73
08-04-2009, 02:22
THis is gonna b good.

Starchild
08-04-2009, 03:32
If the "sliding doors, bells and whistles" rumours are true, I'd expect modular CoD like kits, with each set giving you enough to make 1 room, 3 junctions and 12 squares worth of corridors. You'd need 6 sets to build up a full "classic" corridor set. But, now we've crossed the border into "Expensiveland" (One such set would equal a weight of plastic similar to the Imperial Sector set).

This is where Space Hulk would be most likely to pull a profit, IMO. Plastic Terminators and Genestealers are already well-established kits; no doubt many SH players will be using models from their existing collections in the game. What will really draw modelers and painters in would be the terrain, and that will not be cheap. £££

So 60 pounds for a full plastic terrain set, models, counters, dice, and an electronic timer does not sound far off. We're not talking about a core game release after all, but rather a side game that must stand on its own merit. A SH starter set with a price tag on the level of AoBR or BfSP does not seem reasonable to me.

I'm quite certain GW will be steering away from hardboard tiles & such; they stopped producing such things after Necromunda and the 2nd edition 40k hardboard & plastic buildings.

Hashshashin
08-04-2009, 05:47
If they can make an imperial sector sell for $90(at a profit I assume),and AoBR goes for $60 retail and tha'ts alot of plastic. I can totally see a decent Space Hulk floor tile set and a jumbo sprue with 10 snap fit Termies, a character or two and 20 stealers plus broodlord. Throw in some dice, some type of flamer templates and blip tokens, maybe a timer thingy I'd bet they can go $90-100 at a profit without too much problem.

Also once those sprues are made make some expansions A La Deathwing and Genestealer, were you get a new book, a couple repeat floor tile sprues and maybe some type of special objectives or new character sprue or whatnot and it's gonna be a money maker.

And boy would I be super stoked, and immediately buying one...maybe two. at that point I'd be over halfway to the entire Deathwing company :)

static grass
08-04-2009, 08:23
If we are going to put on our economics hats on then I suggest everyone look at the Mighty Empires box set and suggest how-in-the-emperor's-name did that get released?

I am guessing 5 termies plus commander (plastic librarian) 15ish stealers poss broodlord and enough plastic tiles and doors to make the primary missions. There will be a list of secondary missions requiring two sets to play.

Then in 12 months we get an expansion with extra gubbins. Maybe a direct only expansion tile sprue.

Basic set equals 60 bucks. expansion 30-40. In total you have spent approx 150 to play everything.

Modhail
08-04-2009, 11:02
Mighty Empires is an abberation. ;)

Well, the corridors are one thing I'm hoping to get proven wrong on.... :D


But, whatever they do, I hope we'll get side walls, and not just floortiles.
I'll be surprised if we get the full, "classic" set of floortiles though; don't underestimate how much that really is:
-5x single square closed ends
-2x 1 square long corridors
-4x 2 square long corridors
-8x 3 " " "
-4x 4 " " "
-4x 5 " " "
-6x corner pieces
-8xT-junctions
-6x crossings
-1x room with a single entrance
-2x room with 2 entrances (corner-room)
-3x room with 2 entrances.
(a total of 223 squares...)

I have a hard time believing GW can produce all that in plastic without it becoming either very high priced or non-profitable for GW. Especially if sized for 40mm bases...
But, like I said: I hope to be wrong.

static grass
08-04-2009, 11:48
That is a lot I agree. I have my doubts suddenly about all of that being in plastic. What is the surface area of the 40K box set?

Hellfury
08-04-2009, 12:17
If they can make an imperial sector sell for $90(at a profit I assume),and AoBR goes for $60 retail and tha'ts alot of plastic. I can totally see a decent Space Hulk floor tile set and a jumbo sprue with 10 snap fit Termies, a character or two and 20 stealers plus broodlord. Throw in some dice, some type of flamer templates and blip tokens, maybe a timer thingy I'd bet they can go $90-100 at a profit without too much problem.

Agreed. That is one heavy boxed set. And it is nowhere near as big as the Descent game box.

The original boxed game came with a little over 40 tiles, six of which were rooms. it is definitely within the realm of possibility that there can and will be a full set, primarily because this game has to sell as its own game, not something that needs multiple sets to play it.

This is where a lot of peoples assumptions about the game go awry with their wishlisting. IF (big if but likely) GW decide to just make Space Hulk, and not dink around with "orks versus chaos" and other such nonsense, then there is simply no reason to make this anything other than a standalone game.

Not saying it cannot be expanded in the future, but it has to be fully functional out of the box in order for it to earn maximum profit from various types of gamers and not just 40K enthusiasts.

I would actually hazard to bet money that the people who would buy this game are more likely to be boardgamers than they are miniature wargamers. As in, the demographic that GW is aiming for might very well NOT be their normal consumer base.

Darnok
08-04-2009, 12:19
That is a lot I agree. I have my doubts suddenly about all of that being in plastic. What is the surface area of the 40K box set?

It might as well come in a completely different box size. There is a lot of room in the box type the stompa comes in...

Modhail
08-04-2009, 12:20
17x11.5 inches, 2.5inches tall (on the outside). The 2nd ed. Space Hulk box is about an inch taller than that.
(Plastic corridors+walls would require an Army Deal sized box, in sprue and unassembled, I think.)

To give an idea of the amount of real estate that a full 3D Space Hulk set is:
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h213/Modhail/WIP/Space%20Hulk%203D/HPIM1674.jpg
(This pic is actually 2 of the 3-square corridors short. The table it is on is 3 foot 8 inches wide. The red line is a GW "whippy stick", the little guys are a Space Wolf in PA, a genestealer and a metal Chaos Terminator respectively. The corridors are scaled for 40mm bases. The white squares are templates for the, yet to be built, rooms)

Jagged
08-04-2009, 13:21
Hard to lose? Perhaps they were not playing me? Trick with Genestealers is to attack in mass, once you get in to HtH the Marines are doomed.

Maybe you are a Genestealer wizard ;) When I played SH regularly with friends we all got to the point where we hardly ever lost as Marines and had to keep changing the spawn rules to favour the many handed.

Worse still when you added specialist Marines like Lightning Claws and such. I played a game the other weekend actually and my son (who chose to play stealers) threw a room full at my Claw marine and they all died :( Lightning Claws are like that ... they either last forever or die in the first skirmish ;)

Bregalad
08-04-2009, 21:19
Look at the Fantasy Flight Games "Doom" board game for what is possible (very nice and usable tiles BTW!). The 40k starter box shows what is possible for GW, pricewise.

Dimitrios
09-04-2009, 02:10
Am I barking up the wrong the tree here, but i thought that GW sold the rights to these games ages ago to be developed by other companies as long as no miniatures where made, and GW models where used.

Like the Dark Heresy set, ( i think that's what it is called) its a 50 quid set with books, lore, tables etc etc. So i doubt very much that there will be plastic ANYTHING.

If GW will be making plastics for the game, then it would be a separate box from the game rules and missions etc etc as far as i am aware. Plus why make new models, when you can pick up the models in current box sets.

Like i said, i could be barking up the wrong tree, but the talk of GW will make X and GW will make Y, seems odd as they gave up "making" anything for their specialist games AGES ago....

Hellfury
09-04-2009, 02:13
Its been a few pages but here you go:



That would be me, and if Fantasy flight Games publish Space Hulk, I would Buy it in an instant! So the question is, would GW let them?

There is no question about that. It will be a GW production. The recent license granted to FFG to reproduce GW boardgames did not extend into boardgames that use miniatures as a predominant component of the game. Space Hulk was specifically mentioned as excluded from the license.

While Talisman has recently been released with miniatures, they apparently are not considered to be a predominant component of the game.

Here is the news from Febraury 2008 regarding this:
http://www.gameshark.com/entertainment/new...h-Agreement.htm (http://www.gameshark.com/entertainment/news/23364/Fantasy-Flight-and-Games-Workshop-Reach-Agreement.htm)

The agreement does not include certain GW titles in which miniatures feature as the predominant component of the game, such as Space Hulk and Blood Bowl.

Dimitrios
09-04-2009, 12:08
Righty ho.. cheers for that...

I shall stop barking now then :D

Setha
12-04-2009, 13:43
im loving the idea of large scale sprues ,hopefully i could use them as true scale terminators =D

Hashshashin
12-04-2009, 21:22
Setha...What are you refering to?

I think when people aer saying "large scale sprues" they are refering to the sprues similiar to the Stompa, Baneblade and even the AoBR boxed set, not larger models...

But back OT I am super excited that this is highly likely to see the light of day, with the Planetfall rumours confirmed at this time and IG already on advanced orders I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't hear more giblets of info soon, maybe an upcoming Games Day?

Malakai
12-04-2009, 21:46
I think it would be difficult for GW to fit all of this into one box (ten termies, 20 stealers, plastic walls, floors, etc). One way I could see them doing it is scaling the game down. I hope that's not the case, but I could see it happening.

75hastings69
12-04-2009, 21:58
I think it would be difficult for GW to fit all of this into one box (ten termies, 20 stealers, plastic walls, floors, etc). One way I could see them doing it is scaling the game down. I hope that's not the case, but I could see it happening.

Or putting it in a bigger box perhaps :D

Messiah
12-04-2009, 22:21
Or putting it in a bigger box perhaps :D

Yesss?

I am looking forward to this more and more.

Ben
12-04-2009, 22:24
Still waiting for signed confirmation in Jervis's own blood.

only joking...
12-04-2009, 22:36
Still waiting for signed confirmation in Jervis's own blood.

Ha, that would make me happy, as long as its jervis you can leave preistly alone ;)

Very very very excited by these rumours!