View Full Version : Tarl's 2250 Lizardmen

27-03-2009, 06:43
Old Blood*
+2 Attack Sword
+1 Attack Shield
6+ Ward Item
Light Armour

Scar Vet
5+ Ward Item
Great Weapon
light Armour

Skink Priest
lvl 2
diadem of power
dispel scroll
Engine of the Gods

2 Unit of 20 Saurus w/ Spears, music and standard

17 Skinks w/ music, standard, and 2 Kroxs

2 Units of 10 Skink Skirmishers

5 Cold One Riders

2 Units of 3 Terradons

2 Sallies

Have an event coming up at my local game store soon and just wanted some feedback on the list. Have to purchase a few of the models so wanted to make sure I needed them before I bought them.

Thanks :D

27-03-2009, 07:11
I much prefer the Slann to the Carnosaur. But if you want to go that way here are suggestions.

6x3 is a better way to deploy Saurus if you're going to be using spears.

Mixed units of skinks/krox suck, replace it entirely with something else.

Terradons are best in units of 4.

27-03-2009, 12:39
Looks fairly solid to me.

I use a carnosaur myself and have found that the revered blade of tzunki + charm of itzl is a much better combination.

8/9 attacks may sound threatening, but in practice it doesnt do the needed damage. S6 and no armour saves is very reliable and a 2+ ward vs the first wound suffered keeps him safe from a lucky cannonball/killing blow.

Since switch to the revered blade of tzunki my carnosaur has performed much more reliably.

Give your scar veteran a shield. Costs next to nothing and you can always opt not to use it. the extra +2 save (2+ rather than 4+) will look pretty appealing against some opponents.

6x3 is indeed the best way to deploy your saurus, (7x3 vs chaos xD) but there is nothing wrong with deploying them 6x3 with 20 models (2 spare at the back) gives you more ablative wounds against shooting.

I havent had much luck with skink/krox units. I think they have their uses but i think that 4 kroxigor near the bsb will do more damage and have more use in general. You already have 2 ranked up units, no need for 3 imo. 4x Kroxigor are a very threatening sight!

Since you have 2 rare slots, split the salamanders into 2 units. this means you can fire at 2 seperate units in a turn, thus potentially causing 2 panic checks not one, deploy them on opposite flanks, and you have the spare rare slot so why not?!

Edit: I think terradons are best in units of 3. You can hide them in woods, they still march block, they still instant kill units with US6 and 3d3 hits (average 6 S4 hits) isenough to deal with lone mages/archers/flankers. Which is what its there for. To me 120 points is too much on a unit like this. However i also tink 2 units is overkill. one unit usually gets the job done fine.

Cry of the Wind
27-03-2009, 16:05
Well first off I'll say I like the list overall.

I run my saurus in 6x3 as suggested and have had good games with them in that format. The extra two guys will make nice bullet catchers too.

No comment on the lord kit as I haven't used it. I'm a Blade of Realities guy myself simply because it is fun to force your opponent to make rolls that decide the life of their character. Makes them sweat good :D. I will say that I'm not a huge fan of the Blade of Tzunki (no slight to you Spirit) simply because the Blade of Might or whatever is giving you +1Str for a lot less than the Blade of Tzunki and ignoring armour saves with a -3 mod already seems to be worth a lot fewer points than it costs. Still I haven't played with it so maybe Spirit is on to something the rest of us number crunchers have missed.

I would take the standard off the mixed Skink/Krox unit simply because they are the most likely to flee in the army and are more likely to get into a situation they can't handle. Not saying you're going to be a bad general and have them charge/get charged by something scary but the nature of the unit means that sometimes they need to be tossed at something like that to stop it from doing more harm elsewhere. I haven't needed a standard anytime I've used a mixed unit and I don't think it would have helped anywhere yet besides giving 100 extra vps to the other guy. Those points could buy the Scar-Vet that shield he is missing (since anything that doesn't need Str7 to hurt reliably will also have trouble with a 2+ save on your Vet in combat).

That's my take on the list, good luck with it!

27-03-2009, 16:30
No comment on the lord kit as I haven't used it. I'm a Blade of Realities guy myself simply because it is fun to force your opponent to make rolls that decide the life of their character. Makes them sweat good :D. I will say that I'm not a huge fan of the Blade of Tzunki (no slight to you Spirit) simply because the Blade of Might or whatever is giving you +1Str for a lot less than the Blade of Tzunki and ignoring armour saves with a -3 mod already seems to be worth a lot fewer points than it costs. Still I haven't played with it so maybe Spirit is on to something the rest of us number crunchers have missed.

Well you are right, but i find that with the lizards list it can be very hard to spend 100 points on magic items.

Weapon: Check
Armour: Cant buy any on a carnosaur
Talisman: Check
Arcane: Cant
Enchanted: There are only maybe 2 good items that your lord can use. (The war drums spring to mind, but then again frenzy will probably remove some of their use)

The thing for me is guarantees. You can number crunch all you want, but there is no guarantee that those choas warriors will fail a 5+ save in combat, or those knights with a 1+ save will die to the carnosaur (that thing misses so often its unreal)

While the sword of might is a dam sight cheaper, i want a guarantee in combat that my 460 point (+100 vps for being general) lord wont lose combat and run.

All it takes is 1 or 2 lucky saving throws and your lords taking a LD test. Even with cold blooded i fail so many of the dammed things (i'm an undead player so i have about 5 years of not taking Ld tests to make up for, and the dice gods don't like it)

So i guess really it comes to personal choice. So for me its the guarantees, but if you feel you need an extra kroxigor in the army, or there is a hole those 45 free points can fill, by all means go for a sword of might.

I just like being able to throw the lord into whatever i choose (or whatever the enemy chooses once the model is frenzied!) and know that on the balance of probabilities, i'm not going to give 560 VP's to my opponent.

Edit: I must say though, i used the blade of realities against undead last week and by god it was funny. Went through 8 black knights, a vampire, numerous skeletons (killed a unit in 2 rounds of combat) and a flying, ethereal, black coach (it got flying after it engaged a unit). That was absolutly hilarious. If your gonna be facing undead, take this bad boy and laugh at the cheese. Ld5 black coack, Ld6 varchulfs and ld 4 (!!!) zombie dragons.

that weapon was made for killing vamp lists.

27-03-2009, 16:33
yeah my bsb actually has a shield just forgot to mention it : /

didn't expect the bad feedback on the skink/krox unit, I have only played a fwe games with it so was still experimenting with them perhaps I will have to change things up a bit before the event

the reason I have the 2 unit of terradons is I had some free point. I recently switched from using a unit of razordons (they did not perform at all in any of my games). Once I get another playtest in they may go away and I may try a way to squeeze in an extra unit of cold one riders since I already have the models.

Any one have any luck with two unit of Cold One Riders?

I will try the 6x3 formation. I am always wary of giving up rank bonus but that is cause I am paranoid lol. What can it hurt, right?

I kit out my lord so he can take on infantry that relies on static combat from the front if he wants. That was/is kinda the idea behind him. The reason I run a old blood and not a slann is that in my area we run pretty heavy magic defense so a slann normally ends up being a very large paper weight, a very large paper weight with leadership 9 but a paperweight non the less, lol.

Something I did think about doing was what I used to do in the old 6th ed book (ussually didn't run a slann there either, but that was because I was trying to be different :) ) Just use a hero level guy as my general and use all those lord points on Units.

I will diff have to revaluate the Skink/Krox unit now though and I will try 6x3.

Thanks for the feedback so far and keep it coming

27-03-2009, 16:36
I haven't tryed skinks with the kroxigors attached to them.
So I won't comment their. With the cold ones are you planning
on attaching the Carnausor to them? If not get your scar-vet
to join that unit, and give him a weapon that gives a -2 to
armor save (fire sword) and just go heavy cavalry hunting.
Also I would increase the unit size to 8

27-03-2009, 16:50
Looks like a pretty solid list -- glad it's not another "Slann + jag scarvet + engine" list (don't get me wrong, it's an awesome list and I run it a lot, but so does everybody).

Don't let these guys talk you out of krox+skinks -- at least try them some, I've had great results. They're a serious threat on the charge, they can take a charge (if they go for the Krox, you get CR, if they go for the skinks, you get Krox attacks), they're reasonably cheap, they cause Fear, they have poisoned javelins, and they're M6. Oh, and they're core. Good unit. I run two, and they are given a lot of respect by my opponents. Oh, give them a standard as long as it's at least two Krox.

I've often ran 2 units of 5 cavalry, and 3 units of 5 cavalry, and it just doesn't work. Stupidity means we can't MSU cavalry -- you'll fail one eventually. Two units of eight is -way- better than three units of 5, and one unit of ~8 (just run 6 wide) will outperform two of 5 for cheaper. If you want more killy, use that extra hero slot to put a scar vet on cold one in the unit with something cheap (even just spear and LA with no magic items is really good) and you'll have a really useful units, instead of a couple of fragile, unreliable ones.

You lose nothing by splitting up the Sallies -- two units of one is a lot better than one unit of two. Get the extra handlers. They double as shooting defense.

Also, true story on Saurus. The 4 extra attacks you'll get for going to six wide will make up for the extra CR, and you'll hold onto the ranks you do have for longer. Saurus benefit more from being 6-wide than anything else in the game, I think. I keep meaning to run 24, 6 wide, but I never do, lol.

Oldblood and carnie has worked really well for me. But, seriously, the extra attacks aren't going to help you. You still won't win to the front of good troops, S5 isn't -amazing-, just really, really good, caster characters you've already got covered, and fighty characters with good defense will save all that mess.

I second either Tzunki or the Blade of Realities. I've been running the Blade and it's done really well for me -- even against just random stuff, the ability to bypass all the failure opportunities of rolling to wound and armor saves and ward saves keeps it strong, against monsters there's nothing in the game better, and against souped-up lords it gives you options. Basically the Blade (and to a lesser extent Tzunki) give you the ability to deal with the things that normally you'd need magic to deal with. Try it, it's fun.

27-03-2009, 16:55
On skinks + krox. The moment one of your units overruns infront of them and gets bogged down in combat. You will regret using them

This is because the only movement they are allowed to do is wheel or expand frontage. There is no easy way to turn them to the flank and if one of your units ends up stuck in front of them (easier than it sounds) you cannot move the unit untill whatevers blocking dies or moves.

Same goes for a unit getting to their flank or rear, you willl be march blocked and 6" wheel on a rank and file unit makes it impossible to turn to face things. You gotta be REALLY carefull with them. Krox are just easier imo.

I had my unit stuck behind one of my stegadons for 3 turns. It was horrible.

Cry of the Wind
27-03-2009, 17:34
I use my Skink/Krox unit on the flanks for that reason. They wheel in and flank the enemy that the Saurus are fighting. Failing that they stop the other guy from doing the same thing with his flankers, and generally the Skink/Krox unit can handle things like Maruader horsemen or whatever the light flankers the other guy brings to the table.

If you are worried about rank bonus, think about how easy it is to remove a single guy from the 20 man unit. Now you lost the rank bonus and don't have 4 extra attacks too. Double lose. 6x3 with 2 spares allows 3 dead with no effect on rank bonus. At the end of the day you'll probably have the same rank bonus 6 wide but will have extra attacks to win with.

27-03-2009, 17:51
That list looks like it will be fun to play. My krox/skink mixed unit has perfrormed really well for me anyways, although as has been mentioned the lack of the units ability to turn can be a pain. But fear causing/fear immunity, missile abilty,poison attacks, aquatic, Krox hittiness that the unit has aint too shabby. They are always put on the flank in my army because of the inability to turn, I use them in combo with the one swarm I have-Its been pretty successful. They make a good bait unit too. and with movment six I like to just sprint them down the side and challenge for tt corners if I cant think of anything else thats better to do with them. Try to place some aquatic scenary on the flank.......

28-03-2009, 00:36
yeah I have been placeing the krox/skink unit on my flank it protect it

I am looking at alternate builds for my lord now.

I will post one up when I come with something I like

thanks for all the feedback guys