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View Full Version : Rhino spam unfair???



General Squeek Squeek
27-03-2009, 07:50
I run a mech marine list. In under 2k point games I rarely take less then 5 rhino's, some vins, and 2 dreads (or landraider). Anyway.... people always give me a :rolleyes: look when my army hits the table. The thing is These rhinos don't even have extra armor (way to expensive for something that happens 1/6 of the time). Heck even my assault marines go in the rhino's even though they'd be better off with a jump pack on. Is this really that :cheese:y a list, or what?

On another note is it bad form to contest an objective with a empty rhino on the last turn? I know its legal, but people seem a bit upset when my rhino comes running in to roll over and contest that objective on the last turn.

solkan
27-03-2009, 07:54
What should balance out the numbers for rhino spam is the annihilation mission.

Otherwise, it could be worse. You could be using drop pods to contest objectives, and those are slightly harder to kill than a rhino.

PhantomRonin
27-03-2009, 07:56
I don't think so. Obviously you are a man who loves his tanks. Big deal. As for contesting with an empty rhino, I cannot say because I'm still learning the game.

The Highwayman
27-03-2009, 07:59
I don't see how a mech list is unfair. Personally I have always found rhinos usually get shot quite early in the game, but that might just be my own fault. A mech list is a nice themed army, and I wouldn't call it cheese, there are much worse army lists out there!

Hypaspist
27-03-2009, 08:34
contesting with an empty Rhino is ok in my book, in fact there was an hilarious game I had a couple of monhths back, Marines Vs Elder, capture objectives mission, now in no uncertain terms were the Marines getting an absolute BEASTING from the Eldar, it was like watching Ali fighting my Grandma.... anyway last turn pretty the only thing we had left in contesting range was a Rhino, so we piled it forward, passed the dangerous terrain test and full throttled it onto the Eldar objective. Then in the Edar turn no less than 6 Units tried to take the rhino down the best they managed was a glancing hit!

P.S. I dont think an all mech army is cheesy, its just another variant that your opponent must cope with.

redbaron998
27-03-2009, 08:36
Its not cheesy at all, all the MEQs are Rhino lovers. At 35 points a pop they have so many uses and are just fantastic.

The Rhinos are back, its just the way things are in 5th.

General Squeek Squeek
27-03-2009, 09:20
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who love's his rhino's. The funny thing is if most the players put their str 7/8 fire into them rather then my dreads and vindicators my whole army grinds to a halt. I guess I just have to wait and let them learn that on their own.

Lord Cook
27-03-2009, 09:31
Not unfair at all. Mechanized space marine armies are perfectly reasonable and fluffy in my opinion. I'm waiting for the outcry we get for 55 point chimeras with two heavy weapons included as standard and Av12 on the front.

mughi3
27-03-2009, 09:47
Not at all-
here is a hint-
one of the most powerful mech blood angels armies i have ever seen, he always does well with it-
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i112/mughi3/bstgen.jpg

It also helps that transports are not pinning death traps like they were in 4th.

punishedsoul
27-03-2009, 09:47
Even when you look at the SMURFs army that they have for pictures in the codex they are very rhino heavy..In fact if I remember right they have all of their regular squads in Rhinos.. If i had money theres a pretty good chance id go drop a couple hundred dollars on a few rhinos and play a similar fashion.

Marshal Sinclair
27-03-2009, 10:34
I've been playing fully mech Sisters of Battle for years. It's very powerful if you know what you're doing. So much so I moved on to Guard because I was winning too much and losing people to play against!

SupremeCommanderNyuSan
27-03-2009, 10:43
I always rejoice when i see armies like yours, squeek. I built a tau battlesuit army for a friend and played a lot with it. also a few times against a fully mech marine army. you know what a missile pod does with a rhino?
and as tau suits don't have any blastweapons (well, 1), exploding rhinos do the job. i managed to win a capture-objectives-mission against mech marines - with only 12 firewarriors on my side. when your marines loose their mount, they stand around and get ripped apart by plasma before they are in CC range.

But rhinos are not only woundable against Tau missile pods, especially normal missile launchers kill them with ease. mechanized marines are safer in some raiders.

Thud
27-03-2009, 10:47
I run a mech marine list. In under 2k point games I rarely take less then 5 rhino's, some vins, and 2 dreads (or landraider). Anyway.... people always give me a :rolleyes: look when my army hits the table. The thing is These rhinos don't even have extra armor (way to expensive for something that happens 1/6 of the time). Heck even my assault marines go in the rhino's even though they'd be better off with a jump pack on. Is this really that :cheese:y a list, or what?

These 'people', are these the same kind of people who goes into fits when they see a special character? If so, I believe they may be suffering from the "what-do-you-mean-third-edition-is-over?" syndrome.

Mech lists are good, at least in my opinion, but if your opponents can't candle mech lists and start whining about cheese when they see AV11, unarmed vehicles they seriously need to stop failing at 40k and learn how to play.


On another note is it bad form to contest an objective with a empty rhino on the last turn? I know its legal, but people seem a bit upset when my rhino comes running in to roll over and contest that objective on the last turn.

It's just as much bad form as it is to shoot your lascannons at your opponent's vehicles.

Prime86
27-03-2009, 11:32
Why should you change the way you play the game to suit the others need? Granted if it would be obviously unfair changes are in order for a fun game, to me it would seem like a challenge to fight an army I've never fought before.

Don't let other people tell you how they want you to play the game :)

ehlijen
27-03-2009, 12:23
There is nothing unfair about spamming rhinos. In every 3rd mission or so they'll be liabilities rather than assets and even in other missions their contribution relies heavily on the quality of their commander: in the face of orks, nids and others the rhino rush just doesn't work as automatically anymore.

Thylacine
27-03-2009, 12:45
I have always run a mechanised Space Wolf list and at tournaments there are 'some' opponents that give me grief, composition wise for taking it.

Some people have an idea how your army should be played and will sting you on the soft points for not building your list to their expectation. Oh, you have three HQ's and OBEL scouts and three Heavy Support choices and your HQ's are tooled up! Hmmm, let me see that gives you a composition score of -10.

As for contesting with an empty vehicle, it is legal for just that reason, your in a comp to win the game. If contesting removes an objective from your opponent and gives you a better score then thats what you do.

Mannimarco
27-03-2009, 12:57
i wasnt sure if vehicles could claim objectives, i once tried with a ork dreadnought taken as a troop choice (big mek hq) and was told you couldnt

mughi3
27-03-2009, 13:06
claim no, contest yes!

if you contest all but 1 objective then it becomes a 1 objective game.

Neknoh
27-03-2009, 13:16
If you have the resources, bring as many landraiders as your FoC would allow
Then bring Landspeeders and Dreads.
Bring some rhinos.

Now play the same opponents a game or two.

Go back to Rhino List

Suddenly, those people will likely thank you because of it, at least they will if the source of the complaints are your vehicles in themselves.

sabreu
27-03-2009, 13:23
Nope, this list is not unfair at all. I play against such a list regularly with my skumgrod, and it's quite fun and challenging at the same time to play against. So far I've won the majority of the games and it's not due to unequal skill levels. most of the time very close victories! Sometimes too close for my orky heart to handle!

Anyway, I digress, your list is just fine and the whiners are just...whiners.

EVIL INC
27-03-2009, 13:36
I see nothing wrong with the mech marine list.
True, it can give you an advantage if the enemy is unprepared, has poor choice in target choosing or bad luck with the dice. If the have a few heavy weapons, have good choice in target priority and decent luck with dice, they can stop you and pick you apart as you end up having to walk towards them.
Likewise, in a kill point game, they are a huge liability to you as each one popped is a kill point for the opponant.
Either way, it is a good theme and looks good on the table. Your opponants need to learn better tactics.

Corrode
27-03-2009, 13:48
Mech Marines is a common, powerful but not cheesy build for Marines. I fully intend to run my Marines exactly the same way. (I also love seeing it across the table, because Lootas eat Rhinos for breakfast).

shin'keiro
27-03-2009, 14:09
I've been playing fully mech Sisters of Battle for years. It's very powerful if you know what you're doing. So much so I moved on to Guard because I was winning too much and losing people to play against!

Same reason ive stopped using Eldar...

I now use a khorne mech army - land raider, 5 x rhinos etc...

The_Outsider
27-03-2009, 14:38
As far as mech armies go, you can do much, much better than mech SM/CSM.

Frontier
27-03-2009, 16:26
I'm learning the value of Rhinos and their myriad number of variants. Keep doing it. It is very fluffy and a good idea for mobility.

AmBlam
27-03-2009, 16:37
As far as mech armies go, you can do much, much better than mech SM/CSM.

QFT

Eldars' ability to contest as many points as they have tanks/transports left with little to no retaliation avaliable is upsetting.

Hicks
27-03-2009, 17:04
I wouldn't call it unfair and it's a very valid strategy. Some armies are going to hate it like the nids and others aren't going to sweat against it, so it's not like Nob Bikers that can pwn anything.

A firend of mine plays his chaos marines with tons of transports and does very with it.

AngryAngel
27-03-2009, 17:26
Sounds like sour grapes to me. No the mech marine list is not cheesy. It is now a viable list, and aside from viable I find it rather good. For a long while it was sub par and still I saw some people, myself included use it. If people want to complain about rhinos now, let um. I'll still field as you should, the army you love to play thats not in fact cheesy.

Thanatos_elNyx
27-03-2009, 17:58
I have no problem with Rhino Spam (its how it should be done).
Its DropPod Spam that irks me.

Grazzy
27-03-2009, 18:24
Not unfair at all- the rhinos give up a killpoint each too.

Razorback spam is more scary IMO - at 40 points it is not unfeasible to take 8+ which is downright scary.

Captain Micha
27-03-2009, 18:34
35 points for mobile terrain! Heck yes!

It's not cheesey at all. Actually my Tau would love you (we could have a mobility fight!).

Creeping Dementia
27-03-2009, 18:41
Unfair??? serious?? Are you playing a bunch of 9 year olds? Sure rhinos are cheap (points wise) but they also pop pretty easily. Next time your opponents start whining tell them to grow a pair.

njfed
27-03-2009, 21:15
In a month when the new IG codex is out and everyone is playing mech IG armor company spam battlecannons!!1one1! no one will care about a few rhinos.

The_Outsider
27-03-2009, 23:24
In a month when the new IG codex is out and everyone is playing mech IG armor company spam battlecannons!!1one1! no one will care about a few rhinos.

In all honesty a lot pf people will be in for a shock when they see the amount of armour iG can put on the field.

Though once you flank 90% of IG's vehicles they melt so meh.

Col. Tartleton
28-03-2009, 04:03
Its like my devised but unintended to be built Undivided force (Khorne in fluff.)

HQ:
Terminator Lord

Elites:
4 Chosen(Chaos Glory) 4 MG+ AC with HB+ Rhino
4Chosen(Chaos Glory) 4 MG+ AC with HB+ Rhino
4 Terminators +2CM

Troops:
9 Chaos Marines(Chaos Glory) HB, MG +AC with TLB+ Rhino+HL
9 Chaos Marines(Chaos Glory) HB, MG +AC with TLB+ Rhino+HL
9 Chaos Marines(Chaos Glory) HB, MG +AC with TLB+ Rhino+HL
9 Chaos Marines(Chaos Glory) HB, MG +AC with TLB+ Rhino+HL

Heavy:
9 Havoc Marines (Chaos Glory) 4HB +AC with CM +Rhino with HL
9 Havoc Marines (Chaos Glory) 4HB +AC with CM +Rhino with HL
Land Raider+HL+DP

Its like 70 men and 9 tanks at about 2500 with a lot of dakka. IMO, marines are meant to have transports and awesome vehicular dominance. They're supposed to be the best, they should use air deployed line breaking APCs as standard when not drop podded. With this list I'd have the tanks move as a barrier and have my troops run behind them. If they die its cover, if they don't its cover and their will be added heavy fire from the pintles. I mean rhinos are cheap enough to be used for blocking lines of site and making cover when they're popped.

Torga_DW
28-03-2009, 04:38
Do you bring that as your standard list? (i'm assuming you do). If so, i see no problems, as it will have its own disadvantages against other lists. If you only bring it against certain armies and/or builds, thats another story. But i'm fairly certain my 'standard' lists would be competetive against it. I don't see it as overpowered or anything.

Tyndmyr
28-03-2009, 05:56
Rhinos cheesy? It's not as if they wield that much firepower, and hey, any kill point mission is suddenly going to be very difficult for you. Rhinos have sufficiently little armor that nearly anything can kill them, so I don't see what the fuss is about.

Personally, I think well done mech lists can be fluffy and rather fun to play against.

Serg. Lynchbox
28-03-2009, 07:50
It's like saying a speed freaks army is cheesy when you mount all your boyz in Trukks.

Takitron
28-03-2009, 08:25
I run a mech marine list. In under 2k point games I rarely take less then 5 rhino's, some vins, and 2 dreads (or landraider). Anyway.... people always give me a :rolleyes: look when my army hits the table. The thing is These rhinos don't even have extra armor (way to expensive for something that happens 1/6 of the time). Heck even my assault marines go in the rhino's even though they'd be better off with a jump pack on. Is this really that :cheese:y a list, or what?

On another note is it bad form to contest an objective with a empty rhino on the last turn? I know its legal, but people seem a bit upset when my rhino comes running in to roll over and contest that objective on the last turn.

So you mean they are the "Play to Play" types and dont really like using things like "the rules"?

Everything with your army and tactics is fine.

AmBlam
28-03-2009, 10:08
Troops:
9 Chaos Marines(Chaos Glory) HB, MG +AC with TLB+ Rhino+HL
9 Chaos Marines(Chaos Glory) HB, MG +AC with TLB+ Rhino+HL
9 Chaos Marines(Chaos Glory) HB, MG +AC with TLB+ Rhino+HL
9 Chaos Marines(Chaos Glory) HB, MG +AC with TLB+ Rhino+HL


I can't tell what your initials stand for but you need 10 marines to take a second special weapon.

TheOverlord
28-03-2009, 10:30
I think its 9 marines with an aspiring champion which makes for 10.

Otherwise it is illegal.

Thanatos_elNyx
28-03-2009, 11:10
Troops:
9 Chaos Marines(Chaos Glory) HB, MG +AC with TLB+ Rhino+HL

I'm guessing:
9 Chaos Marines(Chaos Glory) Heavy Bolter, MeltaGun + Aspiring Champion with Twin-Linked Bolter + Rhino + Havoc Launcher

nazrag
28-03-2009, 11:17
I can't tell what your initials stand for

HB= heavy bolter
MG=meltagun
AC= aspiring champion
TLB= twin-linked bolter
Rhino= rhino
HL= havoc launcher
---------

Grazzy
28-03-2009, 14:11
The new guard are going to be scary. 10 chimeras would be possible with support - many armies will struggle with that.

It seems the day of the lascannon really is over. Multishot high strength weaponry wuch as autocannons, multilasers and scatter lasers really do seem to be the best for dealing with the transports and hordes of 5th ed with meltas for handling heavier tanks.

Captain Micha
28-03-2009, 14:19
I'm going to enjoy playing my Imperial Guard. I'm not a Mech guard player (I couldn't afford that many transports :D I like my Human Fire Nests too much).

It will be nice having two basilisks and two leman russes though on the field -and- more guardsmen.

Grand Master Raziel
28-03-2009, 14:51
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who love's his rhino's. The funny thing is if most the players put their str 7/8 fire into them rather then my dreads and vindicators my whole army grinds to a halt. I guess I just have to wait and let them learn that on their own.

There's the key to the Mech Marine list. Gun tanks and Dreadnoughts are not in the list so much for the damage they can do. In fact, if they inflict any damage on your opponent at all, that's just gravy. Their purpose is to draw fire away from your Rhinos long enough for the Rhinos to get your embarked squads where you want them. If your opponents haven't figured that out yet, it's not your fault.

Captain Micha
28-03-2009, 14:54
I usually make it a point to pop transports Asap myself. as a Mech Player myself I -know- what horrors transports can unleash on someone. (I couldn't imagine following up Rapid Fire with a strong assault next turn :shudder: )

Transports are generally Priority One. So yah, if your enemy hasn't figured that out yet, it's their own damn fault. I actually will ignore Land Raiders in favor of popping Rhinos. Because the Land Raider's Deadly Cargo, can get double tapped in the face after they maul whatever they are going to maul in CC. Rhinos... ugh 8 or 9 bolter marines, and a plasma guy unloading into your face? Scary.

Grand Master Raziel
28-03-2009, 15:05
The other thing about prioritizing Rhinos over Land Raiders is that, while it might be bad to have to suck up a charge from whatever's in the Land Raider, it's a lot worse to throw all your anti-tank firepower at the Land Raider, have it maybe not stop the LR, and have to deal with a coordinated assault from the squad embarked in the LR and all the OTHER squads riding in those Rhinos. Have reasonable expectations about what you can and can't accomplish when you choose your targets. Land Raiders are actually hard to kill in this edition, so pop Rhinos first, then put fire on the LR if you have anything left over.

Captain Micha
28-03-2009, 15:09
Pretty much how I do my mech killing.

With Mech Tau it gets -weird- really fast though, cause unless you are packing 2 or 3 Broadsides (why is it that they seem even more mandatory in 5e than they did in 4e?) you have hardly any Anti Tank rounds going out so it becomes a matter of you picking a Bait Squad for the Rhinos to go after if you find yourself unable to maneuver for Rear Armor shots with your Warfish. The Ion Cannon helps too though I think for popping Rhinos over the Rail head.

Acheron,Bringer of Terror
28-03-2009, 15:16
Space Marines were always transport heavy - csm and sm alike.

So rhino or drop pod spamming is really in line with their fluff - rapid strike force. If you only not spam land riders, it's ok to counter mechs.

Giganthrax
28-03-2009, 16:03
There's nothing unfair about having lots of transports.

Each transport = 1 KP, and an easy one at that.

It evens out.

LonelyPath
28-03-2009, 18:32
Nothing wrong with a fully mech list, in fact it's very much in flavour with SMs. Keep it and don't listen to those who can't blow up a unarmed AP11 tank. If they still nag, bring on the Razorbacks and Landspeeders, or maybe Dreads in drop pods.

Actually, just take 3 Land Raiders and watch them cry, it'll be funny.

I try to get my armies full mech as well, but I'm a fan of the footslogger so I end up with a couple of transports and lots of guys running about.

My DA durrently feature a single rhino, a razorback and a LR, no one complains about it. Please note - I have a few more rhinos unassembled at present, they'll appear in the army in due time so I'm just counting the completed one in this post.

isidril93
28-03-2009, 20:44
ah well...hopefully the BT update (whenever that is) would have 35 pt rhinoes and 40 pt razorbacks