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selone
27-03-2009, 15:55
Hello there warseers!
I'm looking for specific tips and tricks to use against the brettonians using my orcs in a below 2000 game (1500 atm).
I already know the general stuff-to take warmachines and horde them but still I fear being lanced!

Characters
Now bear in mind that likely in this size game a Brett player will have a damsel in distress, a pally BSB, pally general and possibly another hero.

What should an orc player take to combat this character wise? Should I bother with a wizard or not and if I take one should it be defensive or a level 2 with 'itty ring to try to do some damage?
(I'm fairly tempted to lose the mage or maybe go magic heavy, a lvl 1 wizard seems pointless against a brett damsel of distress)

Should I go with the standard black orc BSB on boar and a bigboss? Or is there some use of a nightgoblin big boss with sneaky skewerer and madcap mushrooms. Can I just pick 3 big bosses (with or without BSB) there to bash in some knights and get much needed CR?
Do I need a BSB and if so which one? Bear in mind I'm unlikely to be worried by a brett magic offensive. Is there an argument for taking a BSB as part of a 3 bigboss strategy but giving him a weapon/item to bash some headz in.

Unit choice

Is there any units which seem like no brainers or terrible ideas to you vs Brett's? Obviously I'll have one or two units of orcs with choppas and shields, probably a unit of night gobbos's with fanatics but is there anything else I should take?

The grand plan

How on earth can I bring his knights to combat? It's something I singularly failed to do last battle (bar a fortuous squig hoper boing into pegasus knights, whom eventually all got killed). We both picked off secondary unit's but because I couldn't get any vp's on the knights the game ended a draw. In a 1500 game I'm going to have to bring a unit of knights to 50% or less or more likely wipe them out.
He's very cautious with his knights and has a good judge of distances so he's not going to fall for obvious baits.
Is there a good way of dealing with pegasus knights that isn't shoot them with bolt thrower's?

Thanks all,
Sel.

rtunian
27-03-2009, 16:39
what about a sneaky skewerer and brimstone bauble-bearing sacrificial gob big boss on a chariot (130 points) to kamikaze the knights?

is that too wasteful? or too unlikely to get the job done?

the advantage of calvalry heavy armies is running down the flanks right? what if you used a refused-flank formation? although animosity makes it hard to keep greenskins in position. you could instead use snotling masses to block the flanks. if you had 6 bases of snots on the flank, i don't think he'd be charging through, and you don't have to worry about them breaking formation either.

in conjunction, what about using the war banner common magic banner on your battle standard bearer? 25 points for an additional cr... you put your bsb with that into a massive unit that won't lose its rank bonus for several turns of combat... like 30-35 instead of the 21 that you usually run, and maybe you can take that charge and send them fleeing?

idk, just some musings. have not played against bret. don't know bret list at all. just theorizing.

Daleran
27-03-2009, 17:45
fanatics are your friend against knights, as are bolt throwers. As for magic either go heavy or just buy a scroll. A BSB is a great idea as its going to be very difficult for you to take a charge, let alone multiple charges, or combined flank charges which is exactly what the brett player will go for. A giant is great as stubborn 8 with a reroll is about as nice as you can hope for to hold a charge against bretts, another excellent option is multiple fast cavalry units (wolf riders, or spider riders) use them to bait charges and flee setting you up to get the charge since theres not a whole lot of orc units that will hold a charge reliably. As for dealing with a unit of pegasus knights, just make sure they are separated remembering he can charge a unit if he can see it even if theres a unit in the way, if you drop a unit of goblins in between them and your flanks don't be afraid to drop a rank or two to block LOS around the side of the unit, he doesn't really want to stick his pegasus knights into a unit of goblins so hes forced to fly around them for another turn for charge LOS. You also might scare him into not flying past the gobbo unit as it could be full of fanatic TNT. Also remember your orc boys arent much more likely to stick around after getting charged than your night gobbos, so if you are gonna eat a charge try to do it with the gobbos and set up a counter charge with the orc boys. You ideally want to use the fast cav to set up baits so you aren't taking the charge though...the game is gonna be won or lost in the movement phase for sure!

edit: also like the guy above said if snotling bases are unbreakable like swarms they are an amazingly good idea for holding off anything brett. The average large lance of knights only has 8 knight attacks and 7 horse attacks which isn't gonna kill a swarm, and the followup turn the 4 attacks from the front unless he drops ranks isn't even likely to dent them.

Shiodome
27-03-2009, 18:45
fanatics are crap against knights (shame), on the other hand doom divers are ok. bretonnian knight blocks are massive for cavalry regiments (bigger than most infantry blocks) and with the d3 adjustment and the ignoring armour saves (\o/) you're hitting a lot and wounding on 2+.

the problem with doomdivers and spearchukkas is the knights will have a 5+ward, which is worse for the spear chukka than the doom diver, but you'd expect the doom diver to do better costing twice as much. to get that ward save though the bret player loses first turn (if he prays to get the ward he goes second) so you can out deploy AND go first, a rare treat.

would also recommend nets, bringing knights down to str4 on the charge and str2 thereafter, which isn't very impressive and gives even character less NG blocks a chance of beating the knights. you'd expect the net blocks to lsoe by 2 or 3 first round, but within general/BSB range they should hold and then comfortably win each subsequent round.

also bear in mind that their characters must accept challenges unless they want to lose their ward. with outdeploying and going first you should be able to get favourable match ups (i.e your general vs his BSB), and use your cheap disposable crap to 'entertain' his dueling monsters. (DON'T get into a challenge with a brett lord :P)

Daleran
27-03-2009, 19:03
I don't think fanatics are crap against knights at all...just because they don't instagib them like a boltthrower doesn't make them crap...the volume of attacks is enough to cause serious damage especially to 8 man or less lances and pegasus knights where it only takes 2 wounds to cause a panic test.

Braad
27-03-2009, 19:16
I once had a unit of saurus scar vets facing a unit of savage boar boyz, both waiting for the other to go, knowing that we were both just out of range, due to having to measure for the savages frenzy earlier and first to go would be last to fight.

Sadly for him, I also had a rock lobber raining stones on him...

And there you have it. Pound his knights with artillery to keep him on the go, but counter him with plenty of chariots and cav of your own and make him rush, and therefore hopefully fail, his charges.

Bring out da magic too! 1 warboss, 1 big boss, 2 shamans. Magic missiles, itty rings, everything.

Another that could be nice, is having a gobbo on wolf go with one of your fast units of orc cavalry, and give him the tricksy trinket to deny him his ward saves.

Or skip completely on shamans, go with the spirit banner, and also put one night gobbo big boss in a unit of fully loaded (fanatics) NG's. Give him the mushrooms to re-roll the hits.

But about the shamans, in this case I think I would either go for it, or not at all. Not a single defensive one.

The 100 pt axe that autowounds and, more importantly, allows no armour saves, might actually be worth it here. Go with a black orc (higher WS, so more hits) or savage orc (extra attack) for this one.

Trolls! Puke 'm to death!

That's my 2 cents...

selone
27-03-2009, 19:40
Thanks all, so far !

rtunian
On the face of it your chariot idea seems a very a decent idea :) Sadly snotlings arent unbreakable anymore so break through he would. It's a sound tactic though to run a refused flank or as I did last time, take the centre, a BSB with the warbanner could well work if I had outnumber + bsb with warbanner I'd be 3 up in the combat before rank/casualties counted, assuming I can keep his bsb unit out of it.

Daleran
You make some good point's I do fear that a unit of lances would kill the giant on the charge 7 S3 attacks, 7 S5 attacks plus any hero's in a 9 man unit. However if they don't kill him a stubborn terror causer is very good against Brett's, yeah :)
The problem with brettonian's getting hit by fanatics is if you get hits he has a 5+ armour save then 5+ ward, if you managed 9 wounds for instance then you'd kill 4 brett's. It's optimistic to assume you'd get 9 wounds on knights at once (as you'd need all 3 fanatics to hit and do good hits) with the missing, baited etc. There is a fair chance though that you'd get the fanatics to land on a lance charging you however for the 2d6 hits...

Shiodome
Yeah it's pretty easy to hit unwieldy units of knights with a template or quasi-template weapon. I took the first turn against him la st time which was slightly part-negated by his very defensive deployment though i could stand off with his forces all day long :) Nets is a great idea! S4 brets are hardly that scary (with s2 horses) and I would even be getting a pesky save. I'll definetly consider using my unit of NG's again, and I'm fairly tempted to give them a hero with them who will benefit from the net's and also help them to win combat.
The brett player normally uses his general on a pegasus which yes hits like a truck and I try to avoid, unless I can get the drop on him.

Braad
it's a very good base strategy match him unit type for unit type whilst pounding him to death, I don't have nor rate boar boyz though. I do rate chariots mind you and as you say theres some good synergy.
I also definetly like your idea of denying ward saves (if you were also using fast moving/ hard hitting troops)- it's a classic combo on a chariot.

I think you're very right on the all or nothing, I think 1 shaman especially a defensive one and even an agressive one would do little good and get dispelled/disrupted by his Dd, items, ward saves and MR.
Alas I can't take an 100 pt item on a big boss but some way of reducing armour saves definetly sounds key here ! :D

I'm going to whip up an army list and hopefully you guys can have a comment on it when it's done, but please keep the advice coming :)

Rolo Ramone
27-03-2009, 22:58
Fanatics are good against Bretonnians. Think in your example: You kill 4 of 9 knights. They have to check panic and if they are gonna charge anything, the already lose 2 files. NG are a good deal against Bretonnia (not the best, but good). Spearchukkas are good enough. If you hit a unit of Knight, even with the lady´s bless, your probabilities are good.

Make use of your first turn. Go forward but always take mesure of the distances (you don´t want a charge of knights in his first turn). Use the Waaagh! to catch him. And remember: Bretonnia is really weak when not charging.

rtunian
27-03-2009, 23:12
if you put a gob big boss with the ng's, put the tricksy trinket on, 25 points, no ward saves to any model touching him. bwahaha!

Urgat
27-03-2009, 23:18
Fanatics are good against brest, in fact. Brets happen to me one of the armies I face most, and, well, it turns out that the lance formation is bad against fanatics: a lance just cannot charge a unit with fanatics: odds are the fanatics will linger between the gobs and the knight unit when they're released. Now if the brets do charge, they have to move all the way there to their target. Now, because of the depth of the lance, odds are they will sit right there on the buggers. That's nasty, even for ward tauting knights.
Chukkas are good too against them, since they got ranks (heh).
(river) Trolls are freaken awesome against them too.
Wolf riders are a must to march block or redirect starting from turn 1.
Brets are actually one of the few armies I find rather easy to face (my win/loss ratio is way in the positives against them), but that's probably because I fought them so often.
You just got to be warry of the pegasus knights, they can be annoying, and these bloody archers (they're the most annoying things in the list imho, especially if they buy brasiers :/), but the rest, you got all the tools needed to face them.

Braad
28-03-2009, 16:21
Goblin Big Boss on chariot with Wollopa's one hit wunda, collar of zorga and tricksy trinket.
The one hit wunda will cut straight through his armour save, the trinket denies his ward and the chariot provides a huge base for his knights to be in base to base contact with. The collar will deny his horses most of their chances to do damage againt the gobbo, just to add a bit...

Another option could be: chariot, trinket, sneaky skewerer and enchanted shield. That way you got a decent AS (2+ max) on the gobbo, and the skewerer is not one turn only, which is the bad bit about the one hit wunda, and -3 AS is quite nice, with a total of -4 as you also have S4.

Support this chariot boss with another wolf chariot (with extra crewmember maybe?).

About what Urgat says, I completely agree with this! You don't wan't a fanatic to actually reach the charging lance, as it will do a lot more damage when they complete their charge (which is not optional anymore, they must!).

Mercules
28-03-2009, 18:05
Of course they will likely bait the Fanatics out with Mounted Yeomen before they charge their Knights in, or Pegasus Knights that are just passing by. Still, 2 Fanatics between the Knights and NGs is going to hurt them a LOT if they have to go through them.

EldarBishop
28-03-2009, 18:06
I don't play Orcs... however, I can say that things that concern me are:

- Fanatics (still alot of hits on smaller-ish unit, and plays havoc with ability to move around as I intended)
- Bolt Thrower (anything that rank pierces with no save is bad news)
- Chariots (lots of hits, you get many of them for cheap point cost, they are faster then most things...)

On the magic front. I tend to only take magic for defense purposes. So, you could either take a lot, and prob overwhelm your opponent. Or, just largely ignore magic.

Psychology could be good too... depending on what the Bret player takes. Peasant units are really low Ld, and even most Knight units are only Ld 8. They are only humans after all.

Just avoid the brunt of the charges... and you'll be fine.

selone
29-03-2009, 00:22
Thanks guys/gals for some great advice so far :)

Rolo Ramone
Yeah taking the first turn against brett's seems like a gimme unless he's deployed really whackily. I agree causing panic tests oin the brett's is always good and calling a suprise waagh might do the trick :)

rtunian
Alas a night gobbo in a unit probably doesnt have that much threat to make ignoring a ward saves a big thing. If he's on a chariot, or squig, aye.

Urgat
You make a very good point in that the lance is fairly easy to hit if they move towards you, but really to maximise the ability to always have the fanatic finish his move on a brett knight you have to get the brett knight to charge succesfully into your gobbo unit. In that case you have to hope that the multiple hits kill or run off the knights otherwise their lance is goign to break the gobbo's :)
I use a unit of wolfriders and an unit of spider riders atm. Wolf riders can march block straight away whilst the spider riders can move right up in front of the bretts (well to within 10") and if charged run away and pretty much do the same thing. Archers don't worry me too much as I won't be using a unit of trolls in a 1.5 k game, but yeah the pegasus knights do.

Braad that's a pretty sweet set up actually and I'll probably use that, cheers :)

Mercules
I guess that's going to be part of the battle whether I can keep the pegasus knights out of my hair, last time I did, this time.. I dunno. If they set off the fanatics that could be tricky.

EldarBishop
Thank you for the advice from the other side ;) Psychology tests could be my friend rather than my foe for once in this match up. The magic advice is good too, gracios.

Mercules
29-03-2009, 00:49
Thanks guys/gals for some great advice so far :)

Mercules
I guess that's going to be part of the battle whether I can keep the pegasus knights out of my hair, last time I did, this time.. I dunno. If they set off the fanatics that could be tricky.

The Mounted Yeomen are worse because they are cheaper and they will not panic his knights if they get hit and panic. Rush them up to 8" of your middle unit of NGs. Assuming they survive he can reform them into a long line and end up releasing them from additional units.

I'm playing and all NG army in a campaign and trying to release the Fanatics WHEN I want them is rough. I did get lucky and have one wander around through things for a bit. On Turn 4 it went through both of his war machines and killed all but 1 crew member leaving him with one shot on turn 5(which went wide) and no shots on turn 6.

Urgat
29-03-2009, 01:03
Of course they will likely bait the Fanatics out with Mounted Yeomen before they charge their Knights in, or Pegasus Knights that are just passing by. Still, 2 Fanatics between the Knights and NGs is going to hurt them a LOT if they have to go through them.

Mounted yeomen are a pain too, so if they die to fanatics, it's good. Last battle I played (two weeks ago), my bro thought it smart to release the fanatics with his pegs. They have 3+ saves... -3 from the fanatics -> 6+... Sure they got two wounds and the boosted ward because of S5 but, that doesn't make them THAT resilient to D6 S5 hits, and they're not grail knights, they take panic tests :p


Urgat
You make a very good point in that the lance is fairly easy to hit if they move towards you, but really to maximise the ability to always have the fnatic finish his move on a brett knight you have to get the brett knight to charge succesfully into your gobbo unit.
Yes, of course, that's all theorical, but your opponent knows it too. He just won't charge w/o checking, and that can win you games, wether he stops on top of fanatics or not, wether there IS fanatics or not, in fact.


In that acse you have to hope that the multipel hits kill or run off the knights otherwise their lance is goign to break the gobbo's :)
In the event the knights do charge through the fanatics, well, the knights should be weakened (haven't wiped out bret knight units with fanatics since 6th ed to be honest), the gobs can hold their ground against a frontal charge with the nets, and then they're done for if they don't break the gobs on the first turn. And if they do, well, it's just gobs. You should have more of them.


I use a unit of wolfriders and an unit of spider riders atm. Wolf riders can march block straight away whilst the spider riders can move right up in front of the bretts (well to within 10") and if charged run away and pretty much do the same thing.
Redirection is godly against bretonians. More than fanatics, it's my wolves who win me games against them. Then again, my wolves win me most of my games anyway.

Archers don't worry me too much as I won't be using a unit of trolls in a 1.5 k game, but yeah the pegasus knights do.

Dunno, the archers are my bane, brasiers or not. They got a silly range, they're cheap so usually come in large units (plus there's bazillion models of them from 5th edition so it's cheap to buy units of them), and my bro has an unbelieable luck with them. Two units of them won him a agme against my ogres before the knights could declare a charge :/
On tne other hand, I've never found the pegs very impressive, but that's probably because all the luck that was poured into the archers were taken from them. In that last battle they lost one to fanatics, nearly panicked, got inched away from being engaged by my hoppers, charged them instead, failed to kill a single squig (lol, rubber lance forever), lost one more, fled, got run over (well, eaten over I suppose).
Glory on the Kingdom! :D

rtunian
29-03-2009, 01:16
Psychology tests could be my friend rather than my foe for once in this match up

see, there's a use for urgot's horn! combine with pipes of doom, and you could be on to something. i think you have to take a shaman too, though, to cast some things beforehand, and hopefully eat up dispel dice. otherwise there's no reason for him to not just save dice for the pipes.

i mean, if he knows o&g list, and he knows that urgot's is the opener, then he's going to save his dice. on the other hand, if you start with like fists of gork or waaagh! he'll almost have to try to dispel. of course, you might not get lucky roll on spell selection...

Kahadras
29-03-2009, 02:20
What about a Giant? He could make a real mess of a unit of knights. One of my old gaming buddies used to use one to great effect. Even if they are a bit random a couple of good rolls and it can really make its points back.Saying that I did see a game recently where a giant fell over in the first turn and pretty much got hacked to bits before it could do much.

Kahadras

Conotor
29-03-2009, 02:35
Gobbos + mass fanatics ftw. A fanatic has a very good chance of killing a knight, and a unit of 6 knight will have trouble getting threw 25 gobblins, especialy if they have nets.

Shiodome
29-03-2009, 04:46
personally i *facepalm* everytime i see an O&G player bring massed fanatics to the table. they can do damage to knights, but are only a good choice if you want to completely ignore their cost:benefit. adding 75 points onto an easily broken 100 point unit is significantly increasing the VP's for the unit in return for and unreliable asset that on average won't recoup it's own value.

it's not that a fanatic can't do the job, it's just that it can't do it remotely reliably nor as efficiently as other choices. for the points of 3 fanatics i'd rather have another unit of wolf riders who bring more options to the table with them. (or any number of other things for similar points values... chariots/doomdivers/trolls etc etc).

on the other hand they're fun, which is more than enough reason to take them if you fell like it :D

Urgat
29-03-2009, 11:12
personally i *facepalm* everytime i see an O&G player bring massed fanatics to the table. they can do damage to knights, but are only a good choice if you want to completely ignore their cost:benefit. adding 75 points onto an easily broken 100 point unit is significantly increasing the VP's for the unit in return for and unreliable asset that on average won't recoup it's own value.

Still they're really good against brets: they will block charges, and if you're sensible and have taken spearchukkas, well, that's more shooting phases, plus the opportunity to outmaneuver them. I don't like fanatics anymore, really, but they do remain one of the best weapons against brets (I almost only uses them against brest and that's it, now). It's just that one has to go beyong the "if it doesn't kill 25 points worth of troops it ain't worth it", you know, the silly pay itself back idea. Fanatics do disrupt completly bretonian battlelines, and that's priceless.
But the day a bretonian player gets the brilliant- her, silly idea of fielding his knights in line rather than in lance formation, well, I can pack them fanatics for good, because then they'll just do like the chaos knights and what not: they'll just charge through, with little risk of ending on them, then they will survive (probably indemn in fact), and then they will mow down the gobs. Tested (many times) and approved by my WoC friend.

Shiodome
29-03-2009, 14:03
wolf riders will also block charges, as well as redirect them, shoot, flank charge and march block? if you want to 'outmanouver' someone, seems better to do it with something where you can can control your movement. wolf riders also don't get 'drawn out' by mounted yeomen 1st/2nd turn to become a liability, again i'm not saying fanatics can't do damage just that if you try spending those points elsewhere you'll get better results. though it requires more manouvering... which is what i want from a game anyway. maybe we're just different play styles *shrug*.

Urgat
29-03-2009, 15:47
wolf riders will also block charges, as well as redirect them, shoot, flank charge and march block?
I know all that, but there's plenty of ways to get rid of them for bretonians. Fanatics is a whole different matter. Besides there's the psychological factor.


if you want to 'outmanouver' someone, seems better to do it with something where you can can control your movement. wolf riders also don't get 'drawn out' by mounted yeomen 1st/2nd turn to become a liability, again i'm not saying fanatics can't do damage just that if you try spending those points elsewhere you'll get better results. though it requires more manouvering... which is what i want from a game anyway. maybe we're just different play styles *shrug*.

Man, did I say he shouldn't use wolf riders in the first place? Check my first post in this topic, before shrugging. You make it sound like it's one or the other >>

Mercules
29-03-2009, 16:22
Psychology is a huge thing with Fanatics. It starts with, "Are there fanatics in that unit?" If you switch it up then that always remains. Then comes, "How many and can I survive charging it?"

selone
29-03-2009, 22:49
I appreciate theres good arguments for and against fanatics, I think they grossly ramp up the victory points when the gobbo unit gets smashed but if they can tie up/ dmage a big lance to 50 % its all good. The lance formation as said really does suit the fanatics.

However I'm stumped with hero choices atm. So far I have-
NorglorBannabasha, B Orc big boss, heavy armour, shield, nibbla's 'itty ring, warboss um's best boss 'at
Badorc. Orc shaman, level 2, boar, the horn of urgok

The idea is to have bound spells and magic working together. Now for my last choice I was thinking a bout a n.gobbo with pipes o' doom. However should he be-
1) another shaman
2) a bsb
3) instead go for a gobbo on chariot with trinksy trinket

Malorian
30-03-2009, 01:19
Ok some notes:

-pipes of doom- Great against brets, but on the same level as them taking the orcbane shield against you. I'd try to steer away from it if this is an opponent you want to play against again. (Unless you plan to have it in your standard list.)

-Magic- Don't worry about their magic. A lot of bret players take nothing other than maybe a scroll caddie. Against them the first goblin spell might be nice, but overall you are going to do more damage with the same points in warmachines.

-Warmachines- Take lots of them. I'm talking all thespear chukkas you can fit and a doom diver.

-March blocking- Remember that you are 99% sure you are going to get the first turn so plan to use it and march block him to get another round of shooting. Run up wolf riders to march block him and maybe even take a hero with the mad map.

-Redirecters- You don't want to be taking those lances on the chin so have plenty of redirecting units. I would say two units of wolfs to run up and march block, and then another 2-3 to redirect once they get closer.

-Fanatics- As has been said they can be deadly. When you are pulling out your armies just look to see if he has mounted yeomen, and if he does then just deploy your night goblins further back so he has to engage the blocks first.

-Terrain- If you play that you take turns placing terrain (like it tells you to in the book) then make sure you have some linear terrain to take advantage of. When brets lose their charging bonus they are in trouble.

-Characters- Take a BSB, and give him the waaagh banner. You now have a unit that can out charge a bret lance. General should be big and tough but don't waste too many points. I'd go with my savage one with a great weapon and killing blow. For heros take supporting combat characters (two big bosses with great axe (and maybe one with mad map as previously stated)).

-Wolf chariots- Will be great, but the slots would be better spent on spear chukkas. You could put a couple on characters if you want (just make sure they are wolf and not boar chariots).

-Pegasus knights- If there are only 3 then they aren't much ofa threat, but if there is 5 then even your block are in trouble. The fanatics should keep them at bay and the doom diver will be great from taking them down.


Hope it goes well :)

selone
30-03-2009, 19:52
Thanks for the advice mal :)


-pipes of doom- Great against brets, but on the same level as them taking the orcbane shield against you. I'd try to steer away from it if this is an opponent you want to play against again. (Unless you plan to have it in your standard list.)

Two wrongs make a right ;) If I do take it it would be for one night only even against the same guy until I can have our group playing random opponents ;)


-Magic- Don't worry about their magic. A lot of bret players take nothing other than maybe a scroll caddie. Against them the first goblin spell might be nice, but overall you are going to do more damage with the same points in warmachines.

Aye I agree, any idea of whether a level 1 gobbo shaman (which I used last time as a defensive) would be any good spamming his level 1 spell or do I need to go level 2?


-Warmachines- Take lots of them. I'm talking all thespear chukkas you can fit and a doom diver.

I'd take 4 Spear chukka's, thats my standard number and I doubt I'd have 6 in even a 2 k army, plus ofc the DD.


-March blocking- Remember that you are 99% sure you are going to get the first turn so plan to use it and march block him to get another round of shooting. Run up wolf riders to march block him and maybe even take a hero with the mad map.

Aye the unit of wolf riders and spider riders will try their best to disrupt him.


-Redirecters- You don't want to be taking those lances on the chin so have plenty of redirecting units. I would say two units of wolfs to run up and march block, and then another 2-3 to redirect once they get closer

I only own 1 unit of wolf riders now so I'll use an unit of spider riders though (remember this is only 1500)


-Terrain- If you play that you take turns placing terrain (like it tells you to in the book) then make sure you have some linear terrain to take advantage of. When brets lose their charging bonus they are in trouble.

I don't like their system in the book, preferring a consensus but yeah I'll bear that in mind, one thing though is terrain is just as good to shield him as it is for me to obstruct him :o


-Characters- Take a BSB, and give him the waaagh banner. You now have a unit that can out charge a bret lance. General should be big and tough but don't waste too many points. I'd go with my savage one with a great weapon and killing blow. For heros take supporting combat characters (two big bosses with great axe (and maybe one with mad map as previously stated)).

I'm going to try a black orc (using the armed to da teef rule) instead which should work similarly with a wards save as my general. The rest of my chars are up in the air.


-Wolf chariots- Will be great, but the slots would be better spent on spear chukkas. You could put a couple on characters if you want (just make sure they are wolf and not boar chariots).

Aye I appreciate boar chariots get outcharged so good tip.

Anyways posting my armylist here- http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3422076#post3422076

selone
27-04-2009, 11:53
A ninja bumpo from myself, I'll be facing bretts tomorrow so I'll reignite the debate by posing is a chariot betetr than an unit of squighoppers in this match up?

This was the army list I used last time-

The list 1500

Heroes
NorglorBannabasha, B Orc big boss, heavy armour, guzzla's battle brew, warboss um's best boss 'at 134
Nork. Orc big boss, light armour, boar, enchanted shield, talisman of protection, collar of zorga, martog's best basha 138
Darksnit, night goblin boss, bsb, pipes of doom, sneaky skewerer 100

372

Core
Nork's Ladz. 24 orcs, shields, full command 174 points
Wisenhorde Ladz. 21 orcs, shields, full command 156

Nork's Arrer boyz. 10 arrer boyz, musician 60 pts
Lazyeye stabbas. 25 nightgoblins, musician, nets 189 points (3 fanatics)
Redmountain gits. 21 nightgoblins, bows, musician 67 points

Widow Makers. 5 forest goblin spider riders, musician 71 points.
Snarlin' Howlers. 5 wolf riders, sbows, musician 71 points
788

Special
2 spearchukka's 70 points
2 spearchukka's 70 points
7 squighoppers 105

260

Rare
1 doomdiver 80

Total 1500

Urgat
27-04-2009, 13:23
Well, charriots, if they fail their charge, like if the ward saves suck up most wounds, they're screwed, no second round is going to save it. Hoppers, on the other hand, have pretty good chances against knights that have not charged. And the ability to sneak out from most terrains, including buildings, is a big benefit against a mostly mounted army. Look out for the archers though.