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GreenSpeed
27-03-2009, 16:33
Korhil like all white lions has the woodsmen rule, which allows him to move through forests without penality. Does this rule still apply if he is mounted on a lion chariot?

Does the woodsman rule overshadow the chariots cant go into terrian without taking impact hits rule?

g0ddy
27-03-2009, 16:41
Im not so sure korhil even has the woodsmen rule...

Youll notice the rule description for it is in the white lion section itself, and it describes it... 'roughly' as... white lions and any attached characters may move through woods without penality as if it were open ground but cannot see through it arbitrarily.

But by virtue of a model having it (such as korhil) it makes no mention of the rule being passed onto the unit he joins (read... his chariot? maybe). All it says is that "white lions" have it.. and it includes any characters that join their unit.

Anyway - a similar situation arises when you take a noble bsb w/ banner of ellyrion and put him in a chariot, IIRC the most wide spread train of thought was that he can move through difficult terrain at full speed, but still takes impact hits.

~ Zilla

Lycannus
27-03-2009, 16:50
Korhil does indeed have the woodsman skill.
Though Lion chariots don't, so its hard to say....

rottahn
27-03-2009, 17:20
korhil gets to move through forests without penalty while on a chariot. this means his chariot gets to move its full speed, but being a chariot, it still takes D6 S6 hits.

Gazak Blacktoof
27-03-2009, 18:17
Getting smashed to pieces sounds like a penalty to me.

I'd say he can move through woods without taking hits or being slowed.

g0ddy
27-03-2009, 18:56
The rules dont support that interpretation....

Nothing in the woodsmen rule makes any mention of lion chariots having it...
Thats like trying to argue you can join korhil to a unit of spearmen and have them do the same thing...

~ zilla

Gazak Blacktoof
27-03-2009, 20:02
The chariot and character are one model though so your analogy doesn't work, though I take your point.

g0ddy
27-03-2009, 21:42
Its also not quite the same as him riding a horse ;)

I digress its a shade of grey, but Im not quite willing to consider them as one model.

Nor do I consider the fact Korhil has the woodsmen rule really means anything at all, as the woodsmen rule itself holds no bearing over characters with the rule only mentioning "units of white lions".

Meh, I would suggest trying to figure it out with your gaming group/opponents. Its probably not all that unreasonable given the price of him in this setup.. and the base cost of lion chariots anyway...

~ zilla

Karrig stern
01-04-2009, 21:07
well in my opinion. Korhil has the rule, and his monstrous mount (chariot) does not.

So if he is on foot he would be fine but his chariot moves at half speed and will take d6 str 6 each time it moves through any difficult terrain.

I know this is mean and that he probably should be allowed to. But the only way i know of that a high elf chariot can ignore difficult terrain is if an elf bsb with the banner of ellyrion is mounted on a chariot.

hope this helps people
STERN :D

theunwantedbeing
01-04-2009, 21:35
Noble bsb on chariot with banner of ellyrion, you treat the terrain as open.
So no damage to the chariot.

Korhil on a chariot, you'll take damage but move through without reducing your movement. As you move through them without penalty, as per the woodsmen rule. Taking damage isnt a penalty its a special rule of chariots.

Red
02-04-2009, 04:18
Taking damage isnt a penalty its a special rule of chariots.

Bingo. Movement penalty in the rules setting is simply the restriction of movement.

WLBjork
02-04-2009, 05:02
Special rules don't apply to mounts unless otherwise stated.

I'd guess that means that Korhil on chariot doesn't benefit from Woodsman.

Gazak Blacktoof
02-04-2009, 12:33
How does the wording of the woodsmen rule differ from the flying horror vampire power?

The FAQ says that even if the vampire is mounted the model can still fly.

"White lions and any characters that are joined to their unit may move through woods without penalty."

WLBjork
03-04-2009, 10:03
It's been Q&A'd but that doesn't make it the rules.

In fact, to be honest, the VC power is more tightly worded, making the answer given a serious mistake.

Gazak Blacktoof
03-04-2009, 10:24
Fair enough I guess I'll have to get a vamp book to look at. I need one anyway so I can finally see what all the fuss is about concerning vamps anyway.

moose
03-04-2009, 15:19
Korhil on a chariot, you'll take damage but move through without reducing your movement. As you move through them without penalty, as per the woodsmen rule. Taking damage isnt a penalty its a special rule of chariots.

Agreed.

Korhil nor his chariot is effected by movement penalties.

The special rule for chariots taking damage through woods, is not negated by the above fact - so his chariot would indeed get smashed up.

However - it would be nice.

Moose.

Lord Yawgmoth
03-04-2009, 16:02
......Nor do I consider the fact Korhil has the woodsmen rule really means anything at all, as the woodsmen rule itself holds no bearing over characters with the rule only mentioning "units of white lions"......

I agree with the above sentiment. ;)



Anyways, that vampire FAQ answer was ridiculous,

I would deal with this in one of two ways:

1) Korhil on Chariot cannot go through woods without penalty because if the Woodsman rules were to (hypothetically) include characters with this ability, they might have mentioned that mounts are not affected. (as WLBjork said, mounts are not affect by characters Special rules, unless specified)

2) Korhil can go though woods without penalty, but takes hits because we are to assume that the woodsman rule affects his mount, but his mount is still a chariot and has all the rules for chariots.

stripsteak
03-04-2009, 16:15
I'd probably play it with the chariot can move through woods fine, but takes the damage hit. He is Korhil, Captain of the White Lions after all, i think that gives him an allowance enough to be treated as a white lion for the woodsman rule.

Staurikosaurus
06-04-2009, 07:21
If you go with Korhil can move through woods on his chariot without penalty, is then my stegadon with a skink chief/priest on top of it aquatic?

havoc626
06-04-2009, 09:15
If you go with Korhil can move through woods on his chariot without penalty, is then my stegadon with a skink chief/priest on top of it aquatic?

But do your skinks give characters the ability to become aquatic? I thought not. :p

Staurikosaurus
06-04-2009, 12:34
The point I was making (and was missed) was that if Korhil bestowed any special rules upon a chariot he rides, the rules would say so. They don't, as a result he does not get a "pimped" chariot.

Lord Yawgmoth
06-04-2009, 15:49
The point I was making (and was missed) was that if Korhil bestowed any special rules upon a chariot he rides, the rules would say so. They don't, as a result he does not get a "pimped" chariot.


(as WLBjork said, mounts are not affect by characters Special rules, unless specified)

From the first FAQ:
Q. Do ward saves and other special rules that apply to a
character (including those coming from a magic item or
spell) also apply to the monster/chariot it is riding?
A. Because the rider and mount can be hit separately, any
saves and other special rules of the character (including
those from magic items, spells, etc.) are not passed to its
mount, and viceversa. There are a few exceptions to this
rule however, when such rules do apply to both rider and
mount: Psychology rules (see rule book, page 79), rules
that the character would confer to a unit it joins (like
Magic Resistance), or if the rule itself specifies otherwise
(certain magic items, the Blessing of the Lady, etc.).



However, the Woodsman rule doesn't even say that Korhil can use it, only that white lions can. This was obviously an oversight, and if they didn't recognize that Korhil could take it, then they would have no reason to specify that it would effect his mouint too.


That said, I still say his chariot cannot go through woods without penalty, but thats my oppinion on their intention.

nosferatu1001
06-04-2009, 16:33
And the big problem with the FAQ is this line:


or if the rule itself specifies otherwise

The BRB itself defines (on page 96) a mount and rider are considered to be one model for all purposes, therefore an item that states "the model gains" or "the model benefits" by GW own rules means the entire model gains. It is specific enough as this is a term use in the book as a definition that extends the initial definition of model as something composed of a single statline.

Got to love them when they don't actually clear anything up. What they should have said, if they wanted only the bearer to gain the benefit, was to say "model gains always refers to the bearer of the item" - but that would have been too clear....

Staurikosaurus
06-04-2009, 22:21
The BRB itself defines (on page 96) a mount and rider are considered to be one model for all purposes, therefore an item that states "the model gains" or "the model benefits" by GW own rules means the entire model gains. It is specific enough as this is a term use in the book as a definition that extends the initial definition of model as something composed of a single statline.

Which would further exclude Korhil from granting his rule to a chariot owing to the fact that a chariot, while being a single model is composed of multiple stat lines, some of which are not White Lions.