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Crube
27-03-2009, 16:51
I've been looking at starting a DE army for a while now, and have started to get a few models ready for when I finish my latest commision. Having worked out what (to me at least) is a reasonably competetive list, I am still stuck with the question of whether to give my 2 units of 5 Dark Riders REpeater Crossbows or not.

The rest of my army will have 2 units of Harpies, and 2 of repeater Xbows, so... Also no Rep Bolt throwers at present (just 2 Hydras :cheese:)

So my question is, is it worth the 50 points to equip all 10 DRiders?

Or do I leave them nekkid, and change a hydra for a bolt thrower or 3...?

Sylass
27-03-2009, 18:43
Dark Riders without Repeater Crossbows aren't Dark Riders. ;)

FunkyRatDemon
27-03-2009, 19:15
Dark Riders without Repeater Crossbows aren't Dark Riders. ;)

QFT
They need them

sroblin
27-03-2009, 20:46
I would tend to equip the crossbows myself, but I have to admit it bumps them up in cost from something I psychologically consider vaguely expendable to a level where I begin to rather dread losing them. And we are talking about fast cav here.

That said, for those 50 points you are paying for a volume of firepower similar to 20 empire archers more or less, and that's a pretty good deal. Not the main reason you're using them, of course, but it can be very handy in chipping away at rank bonuses or taking out your opponent's characters and fast cav.

Still, while I generally like giving my units the best equipment load out, I still am rather perturbed by the expense it represents for units that are in fact highly vulnerabl, and whose main purpose isn't ranged shooting. So I think it is still a good question.

Andrew Luke
27-03-2009, 20:48
The can move nine and then shoot 24. That is SERIOUS force projection.

They can flee from a charge, redirecting a nasty unit, and then turn around and shoot them in the face with 10 shots at short range, and then flee again.

Do it.

Witchblade
27-03-2009, 22:37
I hate fighting dark riders with crossbows, so I suggest you use them. ^_^

Dark Apostle197
27-03-2009, 23:40
I used to give them crossbows... I stopped. They never killed anything and made them a little less expendable. For me they're doing fine without them, but I guess it just depends on how you use them.

sulla
28-03-2009, 09:27
Of course you can bring them without crossbows. If you want shooters, take shades or warriors. DR with-1 for moving, -1 for double shots, -1 for long range... not worth the effort on s3 weapons.

Crossbow warriors are where the real power is if you want s3 shots.

lachlanwizard
28-03-2009, 12:19
Crossbows are utterly useless, the only time I can see them having a purpose is for taking off a model from a rank but if you are using dark riders for that you aren't taking advantage of far superior shooting from other units

Crube
28-03-2009, 12:28
As Dark RIders are fast cav, they can move 18", then shoot. If depolyed well, they could realistically be shooting at short range on turn 1. so at BS 4, with -1 for moving, and -1 for multiple shots, a uniot of 5 would have 10 shots hitting on 5s...

I'd be planning on using 2 units of DRs in conunction with 2 units of 10 Repeater Crossbows, and 6 or 7 shades...

MasterSparks
28-03-2009, 12:28
The can move nine and then shoot 24. That is SERIOUS force projection.

They can flee from a charge, redirecting a nasty unit, and then turn around and shoot them in the face with 10 shots at short range, and then flee again.

Do it.

They can even move 18'' and then shoot 24''. Fast cavalry are allowed to shoot after they've marched. :)

They're incredibly annoying to fight as a VC player.

Edit: Ninja'ed by Crube, heheh.

sulla
28-03-2009, 21:17
As Dark RIders are fast cav, they can move 18", then shoot. If depolyed well, they could realistically be shooting at short range on turn 1. so at BS 4, with -1 for moving, and -1 for multiple shots, a uniot of 5 would have 10 shots hitting on 5s...

I'd be planning on using 2 units of DRs in conunction with 2 units of 10 Repeater Crossbows, and 6 or 7 shades...

10 shots hitting on 5's, so about 3 hit. Half wound against t3 so about 1.5 naked humans per turn... when will that ever make a difference in a game? Rarely. Sure, they are better than mounted bowmen but you need s4 to make a difference with so few shooters.

Crube
28-03-2009, 21:58
True, but 2 units of them, down a flank, 20 shots vs warmachine crew could help... you'd get the shots in before you'd get to charge in. Free up the shades and harpies to flnak charge something else...

Maybe I'm trying to convince myself here ;)

fubukii
28-03-2009, 23:24
shoot at close range now you need 5s to hit sure, but you can use them to kill other light cav or missle units, and they aint half bad in combat either vs lightly armored units

Mannfred
29-03-2009, 10:51
Well lately i've been trying to use Dark Riders without crossbows but combining them with a Cauldron of Blood + flank charge = nasty surprise, 12 str4 -re-rolls to hit + 6 str3....like normally when i use crossbows it's just i put them on the flank and people just ignore them - especially veteran players who are like - no point chasing them, since they'll just flee and then i'll get flank charged by other nasties.

It's kinda dodgy - but u play as if u forgot to shot with the Dark Riders and so they don't expect the charge....plus if i fails hey 102 points - expendable.

mossel
29-03-2009, 11:04
I field mine with repeater crossbows, 2 units of 5. only 110 per unit, so still expendable, they are decent CC units on the charge and mainly, they harass as they should: shoot and annoy, make an occasional charge... usually, 3-4 per unit survive the battle, so I still get to claim table quarters with a unit :)

bert n ernie
29-03-2009, 11:20
It seems to me it depends on your playing environment. If you do play enemies with multiple small units (such as other fast cav) then the crossbows can be great. You can even combine them with another small unit (harpies or riders with no cbows) to take out other weak or small units with few casualties in return.
This can really help if you are playing against chaos marauders with flails.
If the enemy ignore them then you won't have to move before shooting, meaning a few more hits. This means that your opponent will have to react to them, or face a greater threat.
Still, I'd want to take one unit without as sometimes a flank/rear charge is far more important.

Lordmonkey
01-04-2009, 12:10
They also march block, which against VC can be invaluable for slowing down a flank while knocking off the odd skelly as they advance.

50pts? I don't know. I think you are paying for the luxury of being able to sit on the flank and harass the enemy at short range *next* turn, where you will likely hit on 4's with 20 armour-piercing str 3 shots. However, if you already have tonnes of shooting across the rest of the army then it's not a very efficient investment - 50pts is half a bolt thrower.

Peril
01-04-2009, 17:08
I always recommend any shooting you can get on a fast cavalry unit.