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darker4308
29-03-2009, 03:36
I'm just curious do professional warhammer players exist (and I'm not talking about painters).

Bunker
29-03-2009, 03:43
Doubtful.

There's no money in the tournament scene.

The Laughing God
29-03-2009, 03:44
Well if your the top overall winner in some of the big tournaments I think you could call yourself a pro. Even though you don't win any money.:)

Imperius
29-03-2009, 03:59
There wouldn't be a 'pro-league' on the scale of Starcraft or other such games. Warhammer Tournaments don't have cash prizes, so its only for the fun, not the 100 grand you get.

darker4308
29-03-2009, 04:40
Ok just curious a bunch of the little kids at the local store were trying to say that they had heard of such a thing. I for the record didn't think it existed mainly due to the value of the prizes.

I could imagine though .... simple hammer .... a warhammer version w/less dice rolling that could be interesting like mageknight which might have a place on a pay circuit.

Takitron
29-03-2009, 05:17
there are money tournaments, and the invitationals at Adepticon and ard boys where you win close to a grand of Forge World stuff could be considered pro level.

A1TEC
29-03-2009, 06:16
There are tournaments out there but instead of money prices they will let you choose models of up to a certain price such as $500.

thechosenone
29-03-2009, 06:25
I've never even heard of people putting money on a game let alone pro money for warhammer

Grazzy
29-03-2009, 11:29
I know that video games have professional players - I know because I watch Halo 3 MLG myslef (see mlgpro.com).

However, Warhammer is supposed to be a fun game relying on luck and opponents consent. If people were playing for 10000 then there would be a rules arguments almost every turn.

Spyral
29-03-2009, 13:49
Warhammer Tournaments don't have cash prizes, so its only for CHEESEBALLERY, not the 100 grand you get.

fixed that for you. Tournaments = not fun

Gorbad Ironclaw
29-03-2009, 14:01
fixed that for you. Tournaments = not fun

Hmm, funny that. I've had lots of fun at all the tournaments I've attended. Just pick the events you want to go to and bring a couple of friends. Instant fun!

On topic, no, I can't really see pro players in Warhammer. I can't see anyone willing to put in enough money to make it at all feasible and the rules that GW puts out certainly wouldn't stand up to pro playing.

Steel Legion for Life
29-03-2009, 14:11
I think the closest warhammer has is the pro-painting scene, which is increasingly common and lucrative (at the top end, at least).

One advantage that comes from a "Pro Tour" environment is that games design becomes a much more serious business; for example, Magic has a weekly design blog, and much tighter controls over what can and can't be used to try to ensure a level playing field.

It could work; it could benefit the game as a whole. It would be interesting if a lunatic millionaire put up a, say, 50,000 cash prize on the UK GT to see what happened.

As for the whole "tournaments are no fun" thing, just plain not true.

In 8 years of tournament play, I've only ever had one really ferocious rules argument, and only met three players I'd never play again, out of probably over 100 games. So, a 96% fun to no fun ratio, actually better than pick up and play games, I find.

Sure, only one person leaves with a trophy, but usually the 150+ people in the Nottingham Games Hall after a GT heat look very happy after the weekend; even the ones who've failed to qualify for the Final.

The prize-less tournaments are as much about playing new people, who are mostly good at the game, seeing new armies you wouldn't ever see in your local area, seeing people's beautifully painted models, and being able to sit in a pub with people and loudly say "Man, then the ordnance shot landed and I won! On turn six! Can you believe it?".

Kulgur
29-03-2009, 15:41
Tournaments don't have cash prizes, therefore you can't play Warhammer as a profession, therefore a "pro" Warhammer player cannot exist

5Pointer
29-03-2009, 15:47
The very fact that people might think there are or should in any way be professional Warhammer players scares and saddens me.

Col. Tartleton
29-03-2009, 15:54
Why? With the amount of Blood (literally) sweat (literally) and tears (related to blood) shed in the pursuit of the game there should be money venues. This would also lead to GW being... better ruled. Or at worst highly balanced "unofficial" tournament league rules that make the game an equal part skill and luck rather than some people need luck and some people don't because of their armies. Wordings would be done properly. This would be good for everyone else and help to end abuses and rules lawyering.

Cane
29-03-2009, 16:10
Considering gaming is the last thing GW cares about, we probably won't ever see "pro" players. Not to mention that our hobby simply doesn't have the same marketing reach that sponsors have at real pro-gaming circuits.

The rules and overall gameplay design don't lend itself well to such an enviornment, either. With armies sorely needing updates, we'd just see a bunch of the "cheesey", power gamer lists going up against identical lists.

Codsticker
29-03-2009, 16:14
The only area where you might be able to give away cash prises for is painting, but then there would have to be substantially higher entrance fees.

Takitron
29-03-2009, 17:00
Tournaments I've gone to in my area, which I then allow to make broad generalizations and make myself look silly = not fun

Fixed that for you.

There are a couple of money events in North America (a friend of mine wanted to go to one in florida that was paying out like a grand, I believe it was Generalship only, no soft scores [or the soft scores were minimal])

There used to be games around here, Free For All affairs with $5 buy in and then money placed on random objectives (even some like, Blow up this bunker then roll on the chart [A daemon could appear] Survive that and you win $5)

Those were pretty crazy games...

Pacific
29-03-2009, 18:03
Why? With the amount of Blood (literally) sweat (literally) and tears (related to blood) shed in the pursuit of the game there should be money venues. This would also lead to GW being... better ruled. Or at worst highly balanced "unofficial" tournament league rules that make the game an equal part skill and luck rather than some people need luck and some people don't because of their armies. Wordings would be done properly. This would be good for everyone else and help to end abuses and rules lawyering.

Yes, but I should imagine these are blood, sweat and tears that you have chosen to spend in the hobby, presumably because you enjoy doing so!

If you have ever seen the amount of vitriol at computer games tournaments which have prize money at stake then in no way can you think it would be good for any type of tabletop game. For many of them, there is no enjoyment any more - just simple toil learning routines and techniques, with all enjoyment long since drained from the experience so that it becomes a dirge (and this is from direct experience, my sisters fiance was one of the top Quake players in the UK).

Is this something that would really be desirable for Warhammer? After all, you can make the system as tournament friendly as you want, ultimately it is still a game built on the premise that it is one person playing with another, and for the enjoyment of the game.

Although I did see a youtube video once of 2 computer gamers having 'nerd rage' and slapping at each other, so it might be worth it for this reason (but thats 1 reason for vs. a host of reasons not to have it)

I really can't see it happening to be honest, its completely anathema to the nature of the hobby.

sigur
29-03-2009, 18:18
There was a thread about this in Other GW Discussions (where this thread belongs too) some time ago and the overall consensus was "no and there shouldn't be" IIRC.

And I agree. For once, neither 40k nor WHFB are in any way balanced enough and way too dependant on luck (and well so!) to justify and meaningful competition.



Why? With the amount of Blood (literally) sweat (literally) and tears (related to blood) shed in the pursuit of the game there should be money venues.

Weird kind of logic. Why "should" there be money venues because you had fun putting your toys together, painting them and using them? There should be no financial interest in a hobby, you can't make every aspect of your life a bloody business. Freaking capitalists. :p

Laser guided fanatic
29-03-2009, 18:18
Yes, but I should imagine these are blood, sweat and tears that you have chosen to spend in the hobby, presumably because you enjoy doing so!

If you have ever seen the amount of vitriol at computer games tournaments which have prize money at stake then in no way can you think it would be good for any type of tabletop game. For many of them, there is no enjoyment any more - just simple toil learning routines and techniques, with all enjoyment long since drained from the experience so that it becomes a dirge (and this is from direct experience, my sisters fiance was one of the top Quake players in the UK).

Is this something that would really be desirable for Warhammer? After all, you can make the system as tournament friendly as you want, ultimately it is still a game built on the premise that it is one person playing with another, and for the enjoyment of the game.

Although I did see a youtube video once of 2 computer gamers having 'nerd rage' and slapping at each other, so it might be worth it for this reason (but thats 1 reason for vs. a host of reasons not to have it)

I really can't see it happening to be honest, its completely anathema to the nature of the hobby.

Do you have a link for said video, I must see it!

OT: There must be somewhere that awards some form of financial compensation in winning a warhammer tornament, i would be suprised if there wasn't tbh. However, it's true that if you offer cash as prize you will attract even more waac nerds more concerned about skillz than fun :(

sigur
29-03-2009, 18:23
Do you have a link for said video, I must see it!


Hooray for the interweb. :rolleyes:


I wouldn't set "skills" as an opposite to "fun". But yes, it would attract scum.

doombanner
01-04-2009, 23:55
I wouldn't set "skills" as an opposite to "fun". But yes, it would attract scum.

Maybe the best answer is for GW to make a Heroclix-style "checkerboard" game, where everything is statted out and there are no rule arguments.

WotC does it with their D&D mini game and their Star Wars mini game, why not GW?

~Doom Banner

Lord Cook
02-04-2009, 00:39
fixed that for you. Tournaments = not fun

Translation = "I foolishly think I'm qualified to make ridiculous generalisations that do not apply to the vast majority of people who have ever bothered to play in a tournament and realise that most of the bad stereotyping they receive is complete and utter rubbish. Ergo, I am an idiot".

ElGenerals
02-04-2009, 01:07
I've never heard of big tournaments with big prizes being held for fantasy or 40k. The closest I ever heard of tournaments is a 25 dollar entry for an 8 man where the total payout is $100 in GW credit.

If you ever want a hobby the pays good prizes, try Magic: The Gathering. Provided you are really good, your hobby could end up paying for itself. I got myself 3 booster boxes from a tournament one time.