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RedSarge
29-03-2009, 05:01
Every box I have bought recently (about 15) has had HORRENDOUS mold lines on it. Horrendous!

It seems like the more detail GW puts into thier models, the more mold lines I must suffer thru cleaning.
Sometimes it will take hours to fully clean the mold lines off a group of Ork models.

Is anyone as annoyed about these stinking things as I am?
They take up so much time now, a lot longer then they used to.

Example, I had a box of Kroot from 2000, they had almost NO MOLD LINES on them, it was a joy to build and complete the models in short period of time. And to focus on converting, rather than cutting a model out of the klumps of mold lines, todays GW seem to come surrounded on.

The AoBR models are some of the worst when it comes to mold lines, some models need a heavy file and lots of cutting.

It sucks. /rant

TheDean04
29-03-2009, 05:45
Well the older the mold the worst the mold lines will be I believe. Cleaning mold lines has become as everyday normal as breathing to me. It does not even bug me anymore. :(

Nephilim of Sin
29-03-2009, 05:46
See, some of my Kroot have some pretty bad mold lines ...:).

I know what you mean, though, and honestly it just seems to vary batch to batch, and depending on what kind of plastic they use. One unit of Orcs I had from their second release regiment (whiter plastic, but without movement trays) had hardly any mold lines, while the newest ones from the Army boxset/battalions were noticeable more. Yet, the free Nob/Terminator set from WD for AoBR wasn't that bad with mold lines. But don't get me started on my first unit of Black Orcs...:mad:.

Sometimes it is luck of the draw. Or rather, lack of luck.

TanithScout
29-03-2009, 07:50
I'm in the same boat as you. The recent kits I've bought seemingly have way more mold lines than i remember in older incarnations of the set. But I'm not sure if its because the new sets actually have more mold lines, or i just never bothered to pay attention to them when i was first buyin my little plastic men.

Ward.
29-03-2009, 08:22
They take up so much time now, a lot longer then they used to.


Maybe you're just getting old?

yabbadabba
29-03-2009, 08:40
Maybe you're just getting old?
I know I am. And cranky. That's kind of a bonus benefit I think.

BigRob
29-03-2009, 09:03
Ie noticed that no matter how much filing and clipping I do, there is always one line in a really obvious place that escapes my notice until after the paint it on the model. I don't mind a certain amount of flash, but some of the lines are quite chunky.

untimention
29-03-2009, 09:28
I was just thinking this yesterday.

Chaos Warhounds are aweful for it.

It seems in these troubled times games workshop are skimping on the quality of the molds... and inprinted in a gamers mind " oh these are normal " ive been collecting for about 9 years know and i remember in the good old games when i was only a kid that there were hardly any mold mines.

im sure they would come up with an excuse.

Rick Blaine
29-03-2009, 10:16
I'd say the newer kits have less mold lines. This is both due to mold quality and to designers getting better at positioning bits on the sprue to minimize mold lines. However, mold lines are a bit tougher to file since GW switched to the darker, harder plastic.

the_reaper
29-03-2009, 11:04
As with everyone else, newer models tend to have fewer mold lines.

Anyone remember the mold line of the Emperors Children Chaos Marine box set, the champion's helmet? Right down the middle of it! :mad:

-reaper

Melchor
29-03-2009, 11:18
Mould lines can be bad. I find the age of the mould usually doesn't really matter. I've had space marine kits that were relatively mould line free one minute and I'd be knee deep in mould lines with the next kit. And they were both new releases!

Mould lines are just a fact of life for us modellers. They can be a pain to remove but it's just part of the process.

sigur
29-03-2009, 11:48
Mould lines can be bad. I find the age of the mould usually doesn't really matter. I've had space marine kits that were relatively mould line free one minute and I'd be knee deep in mould lines with the next kit. And they were both new releases!

Mould lines are just a fact of life for us modellers. They can be a pain to remove but it's just part of the process.

Agreed. Just stop complaining and remove those mold lines. It's not like GW deliberately make more or less "flash" to remove. :rolleyes:

Nuada
29-03-2009, 11:56
I find the age of the mould usually doesn't really matter.

The age of the mould doesn't matter for plastic figures, but can make a difference for metals. The pink silicone moulds can be worn with age, depends on the figure. They are more resilient than the old black rubber moulds though. Also depends on the caster sometimes, if they're having trouble filling the cavity one option is to spin the mould at a greater speed, this reduces the moulds life-span.

spaint2k
29-03-2009, 14:10
Mould lines drive me completely insane. I also find that my hands cramp very badly when I'm removing them so they can really put me off my miniatures for weeks at a time.

Steve

doombanner
29-03-2009, 16:10
Agreed. Just stop complaining and remove those mold lines. It's not like GW deliberately make more or less "flash" to remove. :rolleyes:

No, but they are responsible for the quality of the models they put out.

~Doom Banner

mweaver
29-03-2009, 16:16
I certainly haven't noticed it becoming worse; if anything, better. Certainly the last plastics I prepped (various DEs) weren't bad at all. And it seems with some of the new sets there is an attempt to place the mod lines where they will be as unobtrusive as possible Ialong a belt line or harness strap, etc.).

Unforgiven666
29-03-2009, 16:17
I freaking hate mould lines :(
And I HATE it when I miss one...grr

RevEv
29-03-2009, 16:34
IN general I have seen a vaste improvement in the extent of mould lines on newer models, perhaps because the mould are newer.

In older technology the mould would wear out with time and use, but newer mould materials are more resilient to wear and tear so increasing the moulds' life span.

In time all mould wear out.

Noserenda
29-03-2009, 16:35
Ive always found new releases tend to be more mould liney, but compared to some of the epic flash I remember from back when i started its not so bad :chrome:

Cane
29-03-2009, 17:24
Yea, with the amount of mold lines on some of their products I think I'd be decent at wood carving now heh.

Melchor
29-03-2009, 18:54
No, but they are responsible for the quality of the models they put out.

~Doom Banner

Everyone knows GW puts on extra mould lines just to bug you. They're 3v1l!

Dai-Mongar
30-03-2009, 01:03
The worst is when the two halves of a metal figure's mould haven't even been alligned properly, and you get a mini that looks like it's been sliced in half and crookedly stuck together. Even the hardest filing can't fix those ones.

sigur
30-03-2009, 02:45
No, but they are responsible for the quality of the models they put out.

~Doom Banner

First off, you know what you buy when you walk into GW's. Secondly, mold lines are just a fact. It's not like they put them on there deliberately. Deal with it. Next you'll complain about is the prices, that you have to put the miniatures together, that you have to put them on bases, etc. :rolleyes:

@Dai-Mongar: If the miniature's really that warped, take it back to GW. Faulty parts are everyday business.

JFSebastien
30-03-2009, 03:09
Can be a chore to remove, but doesn't bug me usually. Tho im not a fan of this darker plastic in combo with moldlines. Crisper detail with the dark plastic but alot harder to scrape of details etc during conversions than the softer, paler stuff. At least with plastic its pretty simple (tho boring) to scrape them clean, compared to metals. Got two Vampire Counts characters, half expecting a huge amount of clean up, but was pleased to find almost perfect casts with no serious lines.
To be honest, if the cleanup isn't reasonable, i return it for another one. Certainly if its as bad as Dai-Monger mentions, ive always found GW understanding if you get a miniature that isn't aligned properly. I think its plausible that crap batches and dodgy casts get sold considering its churned out by machines with molds that degrade and human error in quality control, just return what you feel fails the quality you are paying for.

Dai-Mongar
30-03-2009, 03:12
First off, you know what you buy when you walk into GW's. Secondly, mold lines are just a fact. It's not like they put them on there deliberately. Deal with it. Next you'll complain about is the prices, that you have to put the miniatures together, that you have to put them on bases, etc. :rolleyes:

@Dai-Mongar: If the miniature's really that warped, take it back to GW. Faulty parts are everyday business.

Nice idea, but I don't think I can take back my Man O War ships. :p
I haven't actually noticed this in a while, but I remember one Terminator's arm which had it real bad. Probably a issue with much earlier moulds.

JFSebastien
30-03-2009, 04:30
Nice idea, but I don't think I can take back my Man O War ships. :p


You can try :D
Maybe you'll renew GW interest in the game and the glory days will return.

sigur
30-03-2009, 05:30
@Dai-Mongar: Oh well, that's tough luck really. Sorry to hear about that. It's hard/expensive enough to get one's hands on these.



...
Maybe you'll renew GW interest in the game and the glory days will return.

Hell yea, complaints usually do. :rolleyes:

JFSebastien
30-03-2009, 05:45
Hell yea, complaints usually do. :rolleyes:

@ Sigur: what? i was being totally serious! ;)
@ Dai: Alternatively could could replace your Man'O'War stuff by buying mine, woohoo!

Dai-Mongar
30-03-2009, 08:23
@ Sigur: what? i was being totally serious! ;)
@ Dai: Alternatively could could replace your Man'O'War stuff by buying mine, woohoo!

Don't tempt me! I'm supposed to be a poor student!
I noticed it most on my Dwarf ships, but it wasn't anything a little TLC and paint couldn't overcome. :D
To be fair, I haven't come accross that lately. Often quite a bit of the little spindly bits that occur on the sticky-outy parts, but I can live with that.

Korras
30-03-2009, 08:41
it's annoying, but I know what to expect. and to be fair, it's actually quite relaxing for me to sit down, and remove moldlines. it calms my head, giving me a good chance to think about other things. ;)

besides.. if you think GW moldlines are bad.. wait until you work on Forgeworld stuff. quality control notwithstanding, they have some extreme mold, flash, and ports/injector leftovers. you need a saw to get rid of some. ;)

zoggin-eck
30-03-2009, 08:44
It isn't an exact science. Go buy some plastic tank model kits or 1/72 scale infantry and see how annoying it is in soft plastic. Perhaps sculpt some figures yourself and see how easy it is to make a perfect mould?

spaint2k
30-03-2009, 12:37
It seems to me that companies like Hasslefree and Olley's Armies produce very nice figures with very little mould lines (in metal).

Steve

daemonkin
30-03-2009, 13:11
I bought the new box of SM ass marines when they were released (PFist guy on front) and the entire set of sprues were mis moulded - must have slipped mid-process. I complained, gave my batch number and received 2 free boxes in the post.

Great customer service!

D.

Hrafn
30-03-2009, 14:18
Poor quality models? So I should accept it because I know what's coming. That's like telling a battered wife to accept the beating because, "You knew what he was like when you married him!"

:eyebrows: That is an incredibly inappropiate and ill-considered comparison. I sincerely hope that you do not really consider assault and a very minor aspect of the purchase of little toy soldiers in the same league....



I look forward to my next Reaper order. I do not look forward to my next GW order. Would you like to discuss why?

:wtf: Personally, I'd like to discuss why on earth you spent money on a luxury hobby product you don't like?

On topic, I find flash and mold lines annoying, but far from annoying enough to consider not buying minis. That is, for metal minis. Moldlines on plastics are incredibly easy to remove, so I don't really get the hate against them. I have recently build, converted and painted the new Skeletons, Corsairs, Cold One Knights, The High Noble/Prince, The Empire Wizard and the High Elf Mage kits, and I did not once think that assembly and removal of mold lines were anything of a problem..

doombanner
30-03-2009, 17:16
LOL at one of my posts being removed... :evilgrin:


It isn't an exact science. Go buy some plastic tank model kits or 1/72 scale infantry and see how annoying it is in soft plastic. Perhaps sculpt some figures yourself and see how easy it is to make a perfect mould?

Clearly if a truck dives over a bridge, and the entire bridge collapses, I need to be a structural engineer to determine that there was something wrong with the bridge. I certainly can't come to that conclusion myself. Perhaps I should build a few bridges of my own, to see how hard it is to build a good bridge... :angel:


It seems to me that companies like Hasslefree and Olley's Armies produce very nice figures with very little mould lines (in metal).

Obviously some companies take their business seriously, and I'm sure if you search the message boards at TMP, you'll see the customers do as well.


:eyebrows: That is an incredibly inappropiate and ill-considered comparison. I sincerely hope that you do not really consider assault and a very minor aspect of the purchase of little toy soldiers in the same league....

Just that some people like blaming the victim, rather than those responsible...


:wtf: Personally, I'd like to discuss why on earth you spent money on a luxury hobby product you don't like?

Arggh... *facepalm* For the same reason anyone else here spends money on it? Because, clearly, it is utterly impossible to spend money on a product that has a somehwat high defect rate, and then find the quality of the products lacking.


On topic, I find flash and mold lines annoying, but far from annoying enough to consider not buying minis. That is, for metal minis.

Nobody is asking you to give up the hobby over a few mold lines.


I bought the new box of SM ass marines when they were released (PFist guy on front) and the entire set of sprues were mis moulded - must have slipped mid-process. I complained, gave my batch number and received 2 free boxes in the post.

Fair enough, GW's customer service is always top-notch.

If only some of us didn't have to use it so often... :angel:

~Doom Banner

RedSarge
30-03-2009, 20:41
Op here.

We could always leave them on, but it looks TERRIBLE. (And I NEVER do!)

And yes, GW ARE responsible for the quality of thier products.. it's thier product after all.

In the long run, people will still buy it.. it is sad but we're all addicted to the plastic army men.

endless
30-03-2009, 22:31
I do feel that, in comparison to past ranges, Citadel's miniatures do require a great deal more preparation than before. This is balanced, to a degree, by a greater amount of complexity of detail. However, the miniatures are also a great deal bigger.
As for plastics, mold lines seem par for the course. I think that this is down to the quality of plastic but I'm just going from "feel". Maybe you could try giving the model a (very) thin wash with Chaos Black before undercoating to highlight any potential problems?

Hrafn
31-03-2009, 10:25
LOL at one of my posts being removed... :evilgrin:

Just that some people like blaming the victim, rather than those responsible...



I rest my case. Sincerely, you really need to get some perspective...:eyebrows:



Arggh... *facepalm* For the same reason anyone else here spends money on it? Because, clearly, it is utterly impossible to spend money on a product that has a somehwat high defect rate, and then find the quality of the products lacking.


Facepalm all you like, that does not make it anymore logical that you spend money on a product you seem to dislike, nor does it make your point anymore valid. If you are dissatisfied with the offered quality of a given product to the degree that you are not looking forward to receiving it, then don't buy it. Either you got too much money, or you like to complain so much that you want to spend money to exercise that need...

Really, I don't get why some posters on these boards seem to have a maschochistic desire to buy GW stuff when they apparently loathe it :confused:

It's a bit of an assumption that everybody on these boards spend their money on minis they consider to be of bad quality. I call strawman. Your attempt to marginalize my opinion with unsupported claims isn't going work on this one, I am afraid. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but it isn't going to be anymore valid by demeaning and marginalizing those who disagree. Explaining and supporting your points would work much better :rolleyes:

yabbadabba
31-03-2009, 10:31
I wouldn't bother Hrafn. It's quite obvious Doombanner is a troll.

spaint2k
31-03-2009, 10:51
I rest my case. Sincerely, you really need to get some perspective...:eyebrows:




I wouldn't bother Hrafn. It's quite obvious Doombanner is a troll.

How about you both drop the "holier-than-thou" attitude. Some people should relax when they're responding to people's exaggeration. It's quite obvious that you both just get off on being "morally superior" to others and frankly, it's very dull.

Steve

Kidjal
31-03-2009, 11:13
I just bought a box of Perry minitatures Napoleonic french and to my delight there were barley any mould lines. A joy to build and paint so far.

Contrast that to a black reach box, and the glade guard I built for carnage...horrendous.

xowainx
31-03-2009, 11:41
I did some Glade Guard the other week (to bring my total up to 36 including 6 scouts) and there were hardly any mold lines on them, really quick to build them up. I guess it depends on the "batch".

I have probably spent the best part of 1000 on GW models in the last year (Warhammer Wood Elves, Dwarfs, Orcs and Goblins, Ogres and 40K Marines, Orks and Tau) and i've only had one model (an Eternal Guard who's spear was missing a huge chunk from the stave) out of hundreds that needed returning. I'd agree that the mould lines on Black Reach were a bit of a chore for the tactical marines, but I was more annoyed by the "Shield" parts on the terminators' arms having part of the sprue going right into the middle of them. On the whole though, I don't think GW models are particularly shocking quality wise and a few mins (or less) with a file on each component gets rid of any mold line problems.

yabbadabba
31-03-2009, 12:01
How about you both drop the "holier-than-thou" attitude. Some people should relax when they're responding to people's exaggeration. It's quite obvious that you both just get off on being "morally superior" to others and frankly, it's very dull.
Steve

Lol! :). Funny mate.

Hrafn
31-03-2009, 14:07
How about you both drop the "holier-than-thou" attitude. Some people should relax when they're responding to people's exaggeration. It's quite obvious that you both just get off on being "morally superior" to others and frankly, it's very dull.

Errr...nice to meet you too :rolleyes:

Now that I have been exposed, I must make confession:

My name is Hrafn. I find sexual pleasure in feeling morally superior. I get very aroused by making posts on Warseer. My morals are abnormal and much out of tune with society in general because I find it misplaced to compare real life physical and emotional abuse with mm thick plastic residue on toys. I am also guilty of making dull posts with abominable content such as reason and logical inference. I am so sorry....:angel:

Cane
31-03-2009, 14:58
GW should steal whatever it is that Tamiya does in their production of plastic model kits. By and large, Tamiya products actually warrant their premium price tag unlike their GW products because from the feel and look of the plastic alone their models are superior. At least GW isn't like Revell-Monogram. To GW, model lines are probably "part of the hobby".


I wouldn't bother Hrafn. It's quite obvious Doombanner is a troll.

Pretty ironic coming from you.

spaint2k
31-03-2009, 17:38
My morals are abnormal and much out of tune with society in general because I find it misplaced to compare real life physical and emotional abuse with mm thick plastic residue on toys.

Honestly, was his post THAT offensive? I find the overreaction more offensive than the original post.

Steve

Hrafn
31-03-2009, 18:50
Pretty ironic coming from you.

yabbadabba being a troll? Now I've heard that too. Ah, Warseer never seizes to amaze! :rolleyes:


Honestly, was his post THAT offensive? I find the overreaction more offensive than the original post.Steve

I can't say what you term "THAT offensive", but I'll spell it out to you why it is inappropiate: Wife beating is a big problem in many countries all over the world. Literally millions of human beings suffer daily from severe physical and mental abuse. Each and every child in these families will bear scars from it for the rest of their lives, tragically often becoming abusers themselves.
- Honestly, do you really, really think that comparing this all too real tragedy to mold lines on toys is not trivializing it? Do you think that trivializing it is appropiate?

Besides, this is a public Forum - what do you know if someone out there acually experience the repercusions of this? What do you think they would feel by having their suffering compared to goddamn mold lines on inch-high plastic toys?

doombanner
01-04-2009, 00:22
I can't say what you term "THAT offensive", but I'll spell it out to you why it is inappropiate: Wife beating is a big problem in many countries all over the world. Literally millions of human beings suffer daily from severe physical and mental abuse. Each and every child in these families will bear scars from it for the rest of their lives, tragically often becoming abusers themselves.

Their pain is nothing next to the pain I feel when I open a box of Battle for Macragge and examine the sprues... It's second only to the pain I felt when I accidentally deleted the system file from my PS2 and then had to delete all my save games... Oh, the horror! :eek:

(Hey, if someone is gonna acuse me of being a troll, I might as well play the part, he he he... :evilgrin: )


- Honestly, do you really, really think that comparing this all too real tragedy to mold lines on toys is not trivializing it? Do you think that trivializing it is appropiate?

I do not see it as trvivalizing it. Nor do I make an appeal to emotion as justification. I simply point out one example of blaming the victim, rather than the party responsible.

Let's try it again: Who is responsible for producing figures with bad mold lines? The company? Or the person buying them?

I eagerly await the answer. :D


Really, I don't get why some posters on these boards seem to have a maschochistic desire to buy GW stuff when they apparently loathe it :confused:

Shockingly, it is possible to both purchase and enjoy GW products, and also find fault with the methods of manufactur, especially as it compares to products produced by other companies.

As evidenced by...


I just bought a box of Perry minitatures Napoleonic french and to my delight there were barley any mould lines. A joy to build and paint so far.

Contrast that to a black reach box, and the glade guard I built for carnage...horrendous.

Clearly, this poster is incapable of purchasing GW products and making an impartial assessment as to their quality. Especially as compared to toy soldiers produced by other compaanies. Clearly, there is no middle ground, he must go cold turkey, and stop buying Warhammer completely... :rolleyes:


yabbadabba being a troll? Now I've heard that too. Ah, Warseer never seizes to amaze! :rolleyes:

Actually, I kinda agree with that one... Actually, he's not a troll, he a white knight for GW. Which is fine, in its own way.

~Doom Banner

Kidjal
01-04-2009, 09:13
Oo I got quoted too. How fun.


I honestly don't mind either way, mould lines are irritating but thats the end of it. I was merely commenting on the difference between my last couple of kits.

Waywatcher metals for instance, were perfect, with no cleaning needed, as were the dryads. My vanguard veterens were so bad I had to swap the jump packs as the vents were solid with flash.

Hrafn
01-04-2009, 09:55
Their pain is nothing next to the pain I feel when I open a box of Battle for Macragge and examine the sprues... It's second only to the pain I felt when I accidentally deleted the system file from my PS2 and then had to delete all my save games... Oh, the horror!
(Hey, if someone is gonna acuse me of being a troll, I might as well play the part, he he he...

Your do not get your point better across by acting like a rebelious juvenile, you know?


I do not see it as trvivalizing it. Nor do I make an appeal to emotion as justification. I simply point out one example of blaming the victim, rather than the party responsible.

"Victim"? You are the "victim" of mold lines? :rolleyes: I rest my case yet again.


Let's try it again: Who is responsible for producing figures with bad mold lines? The company? Or the person buying them?
I eagerly await the answer. :D

Which has what to do with the discussion about the appropiate in comparing mold lines to wife beating? These two subjects have nothing to do with each other - except in your mind, apparently.

I'd not only call strawman again, as no one has ever claimed the above, but I'd also dismiss your question here as rhetorical without any meaningful substance, so it would be futile to answer it. The meaningful question, which would also be based on the actual discussion, is: "Do you feel that mold lines on GW minis are so big problem that you are really bothered by it?"


Shockingly, it is possible to both purchase and enjoy GW products, and also find fault with the methods of manufactur, especially as it compares to products produced by other companies.
As evidenced by...
Clearly, this poster is incapable of purchasing GW products and making an impartial assessment as to their quality. Especially as compared to toy soldiers produced by other compaanies. Clearly, there is no middle ground, he must go cold turkey, and stop buying Warhammer completely...

Strawman again. No one ever claimed that you couldn't. Oh yes, and please note that using sarcasm against a strawman does not work very well rhetorically...

If you feel that way, that's all good, because in my experience, many of us do. Perhaps using less overexaggeration and less doom-and-gloom rhetorics would get your point better across.

Also, your use of the term "cold turkey" in conjection with this hobby is interesting. If you are addicted to Warhammer to such a degree, it explains why you want to spend money on something you are dissatisfied with. In essence, this is the core of this discussion - I simply do not understand that addiction. You said it yourself - there are many other manufacturers of wargames and minis out there, so why bother with the one you are dissatisfied with??


Actually, I kinda agree with that one... Actually, he's not a troll, he a white knight for GW. Which is fine, in its own way.~Doom Banner

:eyebrows: Another Warseer classic. If anyone speaks ANY good of GW or refuses to join the choir of GW haters, it's because they are fanbois! God forbid that anyone should have balanced and level-headed opinion...

vladsimpaler
01-04-2009, 18:48
I bought 2 boxes of Wargames Factory's Zulu War British soldiers.

Mold lines were like, not there. They're practically not there. I'm serious.

They were so small as to not even warrant being shaved off. The only way that you could see them is if you look hard at them.

And seriously, Wargames Factory is much smaller compared to GW. :eyebrows:

untimention
02-04-2009, 08:31
I built some warhounds and 2 avatar of war models yesterday.

The warhounds have massive gaps, mould lines.

Avatars of war 'metal mini's' nothing, no mould lines, no shards, no need to file.

I was gob smacked, and this is a small company. OK they charge slightly more for the models however they look AMAZING and they are 1000th the size of GW.

Emperor's Grace
02-04-2009, 18:11
I work under the bizarre notion/compulsion that buying plastic kits early reduces my chances of mold deterioration. So I buy everything I need for a project at release time.

That said, I have to say that the only really bad flash that I've ever gotten was on a box of DA veterans.

It looked like a thin sheet of plastic with bumps rather than a sprue. :D

Unfortunately, I didn't feel that I could ask GW to rectify it as it was years and hundreds of miles between when/where I bought it and when I opened it. In the end, a few hours with a file/knife undid it.

Slightly OffT - I wonder if it's not so much the "company" as a whole but rather certain workers failing to follow proper molding/flashing/QA reporting procedures, especially during peak production. My brother worked plastic molding (Lego Containers) for a while and he said that if he didn't let some things go (without careful flash removal) he'd never have made his production quotas during "crunch times". He also said that they (company) would track how many misaligns or other QA problems each team member had and you faced discipline, less hours, and/or "retraining" (which ate into your production) if your numbers went too high.

Earthbeard
02-04-2009, 18:16
Seriously if you can't handle mold lines working with miniatures isn't for you.

I find moldline removal cathartic and calming for the most part, easy to switch off and file/scrape away, in fact I'd be a little lost if this part of my hobby "ritual" went away.

I buy lots of beastmen and the ungor heads have been getting more and more flash on them as the years slide away, sure it's irritating but in the grand scheme of things not really.

As for Doomhammer - 99% of his posts are GW bashing of either quality, price, rules or some other issue that hits him during his typing, if anyone is a troll it's him.

Geddonight
02-04-2009, 18:34
GW should steal whatever it is that Tamiya does in their production of plastic model kits. By and large, Tamiya products actually warrant their premium price tag unlike their GW products because from the feel and look of the plastic alone their models are superior.

That's a rather personal preference. I for one am unimpressed with the plastic of tamiya (good for display models, I suppose, but it seems too brittle); GW plastic tends to be more durable (which is a good thing when you're dropping models... or worse yet when someone drops a tape measure on your models :eek:



That said, I have to say that the only really bad flash that I've ever gotten was on a box of DA veterans.

It looked like a thin sheet of plastic with bumps rather than a sprue. :D


It seems that molds can have an inadequate amount of pressure applied, creating the issue you've had. I also had a set of termagants/hormagaunts which had misaligned plates (by about 1/16").

I just assembled a stegadon for my Warriors of Chaos (much better chariot steed, if I do say so), and had almost no mold lines.

I go to space marines, and they're pretty noticeable, especially the AoBR marines with their pauldrons.

Part of the issue could also just be that they're putting more on a sprue--you get all sorts of extra grubbins, so perhaps if you clean everything, it becomes more tedious than it used to be? I mean, a space marine takes a minimum of 10 parts (legs, 2 torso, backpack, head, 2 arms, 2 pauldrons, weapon). I guess they're tending to merge one arm & weapon together, but still... lots of parts.

Lots more than there used to be: 1 marine with variable arms, pauldrons, and weapons.

*shrug*

I don't know if it's anything to get worked up about, though. Just get a comfy hobby knife and go to town.

RedSarge
02-04-2009, 21:18
Seriously if you can't handle mold lines working with miniatures isn't for you.

I disagree, and I have the garbage bags full of sprue to proove it! :p

@ doombanner & Hrafn can you please discuss your comparisons elsewhere, both of you have filled this thread with so much off-topic bulk.. that it is becoming hard to read constructive posts referencing quality and mold production, and quota's.

@ Emperor's Grace: That's interesting to know.

doombanner
03-04-2009, 17:00
Back on topic...


Seriously if you can't handle mold lines working with miniatures isn't for you.

Nobody arguing mold lines, it's excessive mold lines people take issue with.


Slightly OffT - I wonder if it's not so much the "company" as a whole but rather certain workers failing to follow proper molding/flashing/QA reporting procedures, especially during peak production. My brother worked plastic molding (Lego Containers) for a while and he said that if he didn't let some things go (without careful flash removal) he'd never have made his production quotas during "crunch times". He also said that they (company) would track how many misaligns or other QA problems each team member had and you faced discipline, less hours, and/or "retraining" (which ate into your production) if your numbers went too high.

This explains so much. Companies try and produce things cheaper and cheaper, knowing the average kid/parent won't complain if it is wrong. So the odds of someone getting a defective bin is very small, and even if they do get one, the probably won't complain. Companies count one people not complaining to get away with what they get away with, to the point of punishing employees.

All it takes is for people to stand up, and voice their concern.

~Doom Banner

yabbadabba
03-04-2009, 17:39
On alot of GW product packaging is batch number stickers - unfortunately not all the products get them these days. Part of GW's fault reporting is to record this batch number. With this they can trace moulding machine, machinist and packager.

As many people on here have said, GW's customer service is top notch, and people often get whole boxes to replace one missing or faulty part. While this makes great customer service, it is also expensive. I can't see GW not having the correct quality control routines in place in their factory to reduce this cost. Excessive mould lines will bne a part of this control.

Emperor's Grace
03-04-2009, 19:47
Yabba,

I'm not saying they don't have error correction, just that error correction on a production floor may often rely on the people hurt by reports to do the reporting (if you want to catch it before it gets out the door. The batch numbers only let them catch it after.) QA folks can only catch so much in random sampling.

And, I'll agree on the customer service. Between GW itself and the Warstore, I've never had an issue unresolved that I brought up (note that I didn't tell GW about the DA vet box... I dealt with that myself). Most of the few issues that I've had are with mispacks not sprue malformations.


This explains so much. Companies try and produce things cheaper and cheaper, knowing the average kid/parent won't complain if it is wrong. So the odds of someone getting a defective bin is very small, and even if they do get one, the probably won't complain. Companies count one people not complaining to get away with what they get away with, to the point of punishing employees.

I think you missed my point. In the example provided, the company was trying to put out a quality product. They are well known in that area for both quality product and kind treatment of employees. My brother took it on himself to do a subpar job to meet his quotas when more focus and less cigarettes may have done the same. In his case, it was the "worker" (not the company) that was counting on the company not catching it and the customer not complaining... (I should also note here that he didn't work for them very long in the end.)

Revliss
04-04-2009, 04:38
It isn't an exact science. Go buy some plastic tank model kits or 1/72 scale infantry and see how annoying it is in soft plastic. Perhaps sculpt some figures yourself and see how easy it is to make a perfect mould?

i can tell you think it hard very hard ... reason my asassian is not done yet.

yabbadabba
04-04-2009, 08:04
Yabba,
I'm not saying they don't have error correction, just that error correction on a production floor may often rely on the people hurt by reports to do the reporting (if you want to catch it before it gets out the door. The batch numbers only let them catch it after.) QA folks can only catch so much in random sampling.

Agreed, but if you are going to take on the role, you have to take on the flak, and thats down to good management and recruitment. You are never going to catch everything and there has to be an acceptance that a certain %age of poor quality stuff will get through. Again, I am sure any factory efficiency and cost managers will know the numbers on how much is acceptable, how much of that will come back as complaints etc.

So lets take this in a familiar, but different direction. Despite all the checks and control we know dodgy stuff gets through. I've never had a problem getting this corrected by GW either instore or by Mail Order. So again, the chances of it ruining my purchase become more and more slight.

People on here quote the quality of Tamiya, Fujiama etc and I agree it's fantastic. And also not very suitable for a 12-16 year old kid to buy and play with in bulk, on a regular basis. The plastic and moulds they use just aren't producing models durable enough. And thats experience talking :(.

scarletsquig
04-04-2009, 13:38
Agreed that the mould lines have gotten a lot worse in recent years. I think GW's skimping on the quality side of things to produce as much plastic as possible. The new dark grey plastic seems to result in harder mould lines that can be a real bugger to remove.

It's not just mould lines that I've had in recent sprues, but also thin slices of plastic where there should be gaps in the sprue. Didn't send it back in the end, but was severely tempted.

Every 1 in 10 sprues seems to be a duff cast of some sort. The customer service is good enough to make up for this, but you'd think spending a little more on quality control might be a better solution than shipping damaged stock.

Reinholt
04-04-2009, 19:39
For me, it's a two part dance:

1 - Plastics seem to vary dramatically from batch to batch. I mean, hell, I've bought two boxes of space marines at the same time and had one be terrible with regard to mold lines and the other be pretty good.

2 - The metals do seem to have less mold lines, but when they have them, they tend to be really bad.

Either way, I spend a lot of time cleaning them regardless; bonus points to the sculptors clever enough to put mold lines on natural edges on the model so it's less of an issue, though.

syrme
06-04-2009, 15:52
Mould lines are my pet hate - I was pleasantly surprised this weekend to find the LoTR plastic kits (rangers and army of the dead) are almost mold free! Ok the models are virtually one piece but still it means hours of saved time!