PDA

View Full Version : Battalion Wishlish-tery



Nephilim of Sin
29-03-2009, 09:51
Sorry if this has been posted recently, I tried a search and did not find it.

Basically, we are finally getting those Battalions that were neglected during 6th, with Dark Elves, VC, and WoC making the mix (sorry DoC). As well, Battalions are being remade, which means the O&Gs are no longer straddled with crappy one-piece models for the same price that others pay for their 'better' battalions (Orc archers and two-choppas of yore), and since things are being made, I was wondering something simple: What would you like to see in your battalion. To keep things fun, feel free to include those which have already been made this edition. I thought this would be a good way to evaluate those that have already been re-released, those that are new to the roster, and to see what others would like included to really feel like a battalion was worth it.

I'll start.

The new O&G battalion is actually a huge step up from the last incarnation, however, I really was disappointed when I found out the chariot was included in it. I still bought a few, because, it is a horde army, and you need the numbers, but the relative 'savings' you get from a battalion were lost on me when it came to the chariot, which I already had a few off from the previous lot. Had they switched that one item out with something else, it would have been perfect for me (even a 10-man Black Orcs, which would be cheaper savings-wise for them, and a great way to tie-in the new models). Instead of buying a few at a discount, I would have bought more than a few over these past few years.

VC and DE: While these are the new boys to the Battalion game, there is just something missing there for me, and I am not too sure what. I think DE would have benefited from plastic Dark Riders, and the selection is not 'bad', but the inclusion of RXB and Spearmen (but not either or, from what I have read), just doesn't make me want to go out and buy it, even though I love the new models. VC is something similar, but not as easy for me to put my finger on. Perhaps 20 skelies, and maybe less zombies? Keep the battalion all 'bone' and drop the zombies? Perhaps someone could come up with a better reason than my failed attempt :D.

So, to everyone, what is your 'wish-list' battalion, either recent, current, or around the horizon?

mr.kislev
29-03-2009, 10:01
well not sure if this is a upgrade but who cares?
EDIT: rememberd battlions were 150 aus dollars

kislev detachment

1 boyar (would be mounted if they did a new model)

10 winged lancers

5 griffon legion

Avian
29-03-2009, 10:07
20 Chaos Dwarf Warriors
10 Blunderbusses
5 Hobgoblin Wolf Riders
20 Hobgoblin Fighters

EmperorNorton
29-03-2009, 12:51
20 Araby Spearmen
10 Araby Bowmen
5 Camel Riders
1 War Elephant

20 Amazon Warriors
10 Amazons with javelins
5 Jaguar cavalry
1 Ground sloth & herders

selone
29-03-2009, 13:28
The battalion is just horrible if you have BfSP which i presume most can get pretty cheaply.
Only the orc's are something you don't have :P


Contents: 20 Orcs (can be assembled with spears or choppas, includes Champion, Standard Bearer and Musician), 20 Night Goblins (can be assembled with spears or bows, includes Champion, Standard Bearer and Musician), 10 Forest Goblin Spider Riders, Orc Boar Chariot.

Here's my wishlist-

20 orc's
10 wolf riders
10 black orc's
Orc Boar chariot

w3rm
29-03-2009, 13:43
Skaven
20 Clanrats
20 Clanrats
20 Plague Monks
18 Giant Rats
10 Stormvermin

Dai-Mongar
29-03-2009, 13:56
First of all, I'd replace the warhounds in the WoC box with marauder horsemen. Dogs are for eating, not fighting! :P
Looking forward to Skaven, I'd like to see 40 clanrats, 20 stormvermin, 4 rat ogres and 10 jezzails.

Shiodome
29-03-2009, 13:58
O&G's:

anything except spider riders. (there's only so many 5 man units of fast cavalray a guy can fit onto a table, i don't want more *********** spiders!), not sure i understood the op though, is the O&G battalion getting changed, or is the current (chariot/orcs/BG's/Spiders) the 'new' one?

nasty_little_hobbit
29-03-2009, 14:08
Beast Of Chaos
2 Beast herds
10 bestigors
1 chariot
3 minotaurs
Oh that would be the day!

Ultimo ninja
29-03-2009, 19:07
DE's do have plastic dark riders, they are called wood elves wild riders...just paint then differently and throw on some cross bows and you got dark riders.

Bum
29-03-2009, 19:39
Skaven
20 Clanrats
20 Clanrats
20 Plague Monks
18 Giant Rats
10 Stormvermin

If stormvermin lose the 0-1 Then that is a perfect box (also pretending stormvermin stop being overpriced)

SuperArchMegalon
29-03-2009, 22:06
Good luck hoping for a batallion with 88 models in it ;)

I'd like to state that the Ogre and Dwarf batallions are both very good.

With the Ogre box you can get a 1000 point army by adding 2 characters: I wish a Bruiser came with it, that's all.

In the Dwarf box parts can be used to assemble the figures as whatever you want. I built 30 warriors and 10 quarrelers with my first batallion (and a cannon). When I bought the army box I made 10 Thunderers, 45 warriors, and 25 Longbeards. The miners and War Machines are just extras :) Excellent starting point for Dwarfs: all you really need are some Hams, Characters (bfsp?) and a couple BT's.

the_under_empire_clan
29-03-2009, 22:26
i think it would be so sweet if the new skaven battaloin came with 5 plastic jezzails, 40 clanrats, 20 plague monks and X2 units of 6 giantrats

the_under_empire_clan
29-03-2009, 22:28
Beast Of Chaos
2 Beast herds
10 bestigors
1 chariot
3 minotaurs
Oh that would be the day!

that would be sweet,but they would lose money on the minotaurs being included

devolutionary
29-03-2009, 22:34
There used to be a crap load of peasants, 8 Knights, and 3 pegasi in the Bret box. 3 Minotaur ain't unfeasible.

the_under_empire_clan
29-03-2009, 22:44
There used to be a crap load of peasants, 8 Knights, and 3 pegasi in the Bret box. 3 Minotaur ain't unfeasible.
true, damn i wish the box was still like that, GW stopped selling the 25 anniverasry boxs, that had like ten pegasus knights in it for only a $100

Stuffburger
30-03-2009, 01:07
An O&G battalion that was a better compliment to the BfSP box might have gotten me to bite, like:

20 Orc boyz
10 Savage Orcs
5 Wolf Riders
Spear chukka
Boar Chariot

FictionalCharacter
30-03-2009, 12:37
VC and DE: While these are the new boys to the Battalion game, there is just something missing there for me, and I am not too sure what. I think DE would have benefited from plastic Dark Riders, and the selection is not 'bad', but the inclusion of RXB and Spearmen (but not either or, from what I have read), just doesn't make me want to go out and buy it, even though I love the new models. VC is something similar, but not as easy for me to put my finger on. Perhaps 20 skelies, and maybe less zombies? Keep the battalion all 'bone' and drop the zombies? Perhaps someone could come up with a better reason than my failed attempt :D.

So, to everyone, what is your 'wish-list' battalion, either recent, current, or around the horizon?

as a vc player building an army (all skeletons), i actually quite like the vc battalion. it's all stuff i need anyway. the zombies may not be strictly necessary, but anyone with an infant vc army is going to end up buying some at some point. currently i have about 50 skeletons, 40 zombies, 5 black knights, 4 wraiths, and a corpse cart. getting some grave guard, a battalion, and probably a varghulf gets me to around 2000. so, not only is the battalion a great starting point, but it provides tons of meat to add later on. i could see ghoul-heavy armies having no real use for 20 skeletons, though...

my two big battalion box question marks are why there are so many miners and spider riders in the dwarfs and o&g boxes when both options are well-represented in battle for skull pass. if the orc battalion had wolf riders i'd likely run that army right now. i'm not entirely sure what other option exists for the dwarf box, but i think that also highlights how limited dwarf troop selection is right now. even just dropping half the miners for more warriors/longbeards might be a good idea.

edit: the vc battalion does have 20 skeletons, by the way.

Leogun_91
30-03-2009, 12:41
20 Ind Warriors
10 Ind hunters
10 Tigermen of Ind
1 Warelephant
1 Maharadja of Ind plastic kit

xowainx
30-03-2009, 14:02
as a vc player building an army (all skeletons), i actually quite like the vc battalion. it's all stuff i need anyway. the zombies may not be strictly necessary, but anyone with an infant vc army is going to end up buying some at some point. currently i have about 50 skeletons, 40 zombies, 5 black knights, 4 wraiths, and a corpse cart. getting some grave guard, a battalion, and probably a varghulf gets me to around 2000. so, not only is the battalion a great starting point, but it provides tons of meat to add later on. i could see ghoul-heavy armies having no real use for 20 skeletons, though...

my two big battalion box question marks are why there are so many miners and spider riders in the dwarfs and o&g boxes when both options are well-represented in battle for skull pass. if the orc battalion had wolf riders i'd likely run that army right now. i'm not entirely sure what other option exists for the dwarf box, but i think that also highlights how limited dwarf troop selection is right now. even just dropping half the miners for more warriors/longbeards might be a good idea.

edit: the vc battalion does have 20 skeletons, by the way.

There aren't any miners in the Dwarf Battalion. You get 24 Warriors/Longbeards, 16 Quarrellers/Thunderers and an Organ Gun/Cannon, so to compliment the army from skull pass, you'd build

16 Longbeards
8 Warriors (to bring the unit from Skull Pass to 20)
16 Quarrellers (i'd get another sprue of these off ebay to give you two units of ten)
1 Organ Gun

Giving you an army of

Thane/Lord
Slayer
20 Warriors
16 Longbeards
10 Thunderers
10 Quarrellers
10 Quarrellers
8 Miners
Cannon
Organ Gun

Add a few things like a gyrocopter, some bolt throwers, an anvil and a unit of Hammerers or Ironbreakers and you're good to go.

FictionalCharacter
30-03-2009, 14:09
thanks for correcting me.

i don't know why i had the impression that there were miners in the battalion box, unless there used to be.

have they recently made changes to the dwarf selection? didn't the miners box used to be 20 models? it's entirely possible i've just completely forgotten all the dwarf stuff since i got my 5th edition vc army back...

badgeraddict
30-03-2009, 14:17
I really liked the old Bretonnian Battalion.

Granted that it only had 16 Men-at-arms but 2 extra Pegasus Knights.

Yet I would not buy a battalion for any of my armies as I already have enough models.

xowainx
30-03-2009, 14:56
thanks for correcting me.

i don't know why i had the impression that there were miners in the battalion box, unless there used to be.

have they recently made changes to the dwarf selection? didn't the miners box used to be 20 models? it's entirely possible i've just completely forgotten all the dwarf stuff since i got my 5th edition vc army back...

They released the miners in two boxes, a splash release of 20 models for 20 and the now standard size of 10 models for 12. They did a simillar thing for the Black Orcs too (although it was 25/15) and possibly the Flagellants.

It's hard to know why there isn't a unit of 10 in the Battalion, given that you currently only save 7 over buying the contents individually.. Compared to the 29 you save on the Ogre one, it does seem a little stingy!

rtunian
30-03-2009, 15:15
i don't think the point of selling batallions is to give people good deals. i'm pretty sure the point is to move the new models that they've made. that's why you see spider riders in both the new battalion and the new battle for skull pass sets.

when they make a pass over the army with new models, out comes a new boxed set. it's all about marketing, and the idea that consumers are "getting a deal" on models is just part of the marketing.

selling merchandise is the primary motivation for everything that the company does. that's why new armies tend to be more powerful. if they weren't, you'd be much less likely to start that new army. sure you might, when you got bored with what you have, but people tend to migrate towards the most powerful "whatevers", no matter what the platform is. in war gaming, it's the most powerful army. in mmorpgs, its the most powerful class. in first person shooters, it's the most powerful gun. that's why when you look at the tournament list, you see all new armies at the top.

its not a coincidence. it's effective marketing.

sales stagnating? time for a new edition of the rulebooks and armybooks. ka-ching.

Disciple of Caliban
30-03-2009, 17:59
(even a 10-man Black Orcs, which would be cheaper savings-wise for them, and a great way to tie-in the new models).

The trouble with this is at the time the O+Gs were re-released for 7th edition, black orcs were still only available as metal models, and they're not likely to change the batallion box again until the book is re-released.

As for the rest of the range, and what i'd like to see:

The Skaven and Ogre battalions both represent a great saving, I lean towards saying that this is because they are among the oldest battalions currently on the go, and i'll be surprised if the skaven one doesnt have its contents reduced when their new book comes, probably to something like:
20 clanrats,
20 plague monks,
10 stormvermin
1 rat ogre,
1 giant rat pack.
This would bring it more inline with the savings that the other battalions on offer.

The Bret one i dont like, because it was deliberately neutered just because people were using it to get pegasus knights (so they could use the RAF, which was about the most powerful list at the time), so you now only get 1, instead of a full squad.

The lizardmen battalion is a pretty reasonable spread, and covers most of the basics of starting a lizardmen force, though i think the fact it includes so many cold one riders stops peopl buying more than one, if they had been substituted with a stegadon then i think GW would have been selling lizardmen battalions by the truckload

rtunian
30-03-2009, 18:14
The trouble with this is at the time the O+Gs were re-released for 7th edition, black orcs were still only available as metal models, and they're not likely to change the batallion box again until the book is re-released.

thanks for inadvertently helping my point.

i give you the spearhead box: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1020066&prodId=prod1050183&rootCatGameStyle=
(note the 20 black orcs included)

only reason the blorcs are not in the battallion box is, as quoted, because they weren't done in time. so they made another box set, gave it a different name, and presto. black orcs and spider riders here! get your black orcs and spider riders here! does this "army" box make for a good balanced army? no, but you'll have plenty of our new models!! get your black orcs and spider riders here!

FictionalCharacter
30-03-2009, 18:23
rtunian, i really don't think anyone's going to dispute your assertion that gw builds and packages miniatures in order to make money...

i find all of the boxes still based on four-model ranks to be far more annoying than battalion boxes. vc doesn't have this problem, but i'd be a bit put off if i were just trying to put together a unit of 20something and had to pay for 32 of them. dwarf warriors being an example.

5Pointer
30-03-2009, 18:33
i find all of the boxes still based on four-model ranks to be far more annoying than battalion boxes.

Quoted for truth.

I must admit, the contents of battalion boxes generally form the main of my armies... with a few specials or rares thrown in as necessary (or that I like - Ushabti etc). TK and OK seemed to be good value from that point of view.

Edit
30-03-2009, 18:50
if the new lizard bat box contained a steg I would have bought 2 already, it would be a perfect fit for my list.

no need for 16 saurus cav though, I plan on using none:(

xowainx
30-03-2009, 18:51
thanks for inadvertently helping my point.

i give you the spearhead box: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1020066&prodId=prod1050183&rootCatGameStyle=
(note the 20 black orcs included)

only reason the blorcs are not in the battallion box is, as quoted, because they weren't done in time. so they made another box set, gave it a different name, and presto. black orcs and spider riders here! get your black orcs and spider riders here! does this "army" box make for a good balanced army? no, but you'll have plenty of our new models!! get your black orcs and spider riders here!

That's not a spearhead, it's a plastic army box. Spearheads only contained one of each new model/set, including the metals.

EmperorNorton
30-03-2009, 18:53
That's not a spearhead, it's a plastic army box. Spearheads only contained one of each new model/set, including the metals.

Yep, and there were no Spearheads back then, it was still the nicer Army Deals with LE minis.
The O&G Army Deal had ten metal Black Orcs btw. I should know, as for some reason I ended up buying three of those.

rtunian
30-03-2009, 19:23
rtunian, i really don't think anyone's going to dispute your assertion that gw builds and packages miniatures in order to make money...

way to oversimplify and miss the point. yes, no sensible person will argue with the assertion that a business is in business to make money. or at least, i would hope not.
--

sorry i used the wrong word! i figured in my wh noobery that spearhead and army were interchangeable, in regards to box sets, since not every army has the same box set options.

so you say that the o&g spearhead when it was on the site (its not now) had 10 metal blorcs in it? edit: reading is apparantly not my forte today. what i'm getting is that the term spearhead is a newish term to apply to the boxes where they push the newest minis, but in olden days it was called an army. kind of confusing since there are army boxes, spearhead boxes, and battallion boxes all up on the site now.

actually, that kind of makes it worse imo... since there is already an overt "push the new models" box already... what i mean is, consider the army in the o&g's army box, and whether or not it would actually be a viable army on its own. would anyone really want over 1/3 of their army points tied up in 1 unit? 2 heros, 20 blorcs, 20 boyz, 20 gobs w/fanatics, 10 cav gobs, chariot... it's a 1000 point army in a box, and i think that it would get owned pretty hard by any reasonably assembled 1000 point army.

Desert Rain
30-03-2009, 19:48
An ideal High Elf battalion would look like this in my opinion:

20 Spearmen
12 Archers
12 Silver Helms
1 Bolt Thrower

Possibly ad 4 Spearmen and drop the knights to 8

EmperorNorton
30-03-2009, 22:15
so you say that the o&g spearhead when it was on the site (its not now) had 10 metal blorcs in it? edit: reading is apparantly not my forte today. what i'm getting is that the term spearhead is a newish term to apply to the boxes where they push the newest minis, but in olden days it was called an army. kind of confusing since there are army boxes, spearhead boxes, and battallion boxes all up on the site now.
Yes, it's a bit complicated.
From the Empire release for 6th Edition back in 2000 to the Empire release for 7th Edition in 2006 (could be wrong with the dates) every army got a big box called Army Deal when it came out. These included one limited edition miniature which could only be found in this box. These boxes had a mix of metal and plastic minis, and included both older and newly released stuff.
Then came the all plastic army box, which were released for Empire, Orcs and Goblins, Dwarfs and High Elves. These can still be found on GW's site.
Then GW came up with the idea of the spearhead, which included every new mini for a specific release and were available a week or two before the general release. So getting them a little early was their only benefit, with the drawback of often including a lot of expensive metal characters, not all of which one might want, and not offering any savings. Hence these were/are kind of a flop.

Dr Death
06-04-2009, 17:48
I cant resist this thread- any chance for wishlisting :D

Deciding on the contents of a Battalion is actually a surprisingly complex art since they have to appeal both as a 'starter army' and as a solid reinforcement for a pre-existing force. From my own preferences, i tend to find that variety is important- once you get more than 20 models from any one kit it stops having that 'fresh army' feel and just becomes 'a deal', and it's nice to have a treat in there, something out the ordinary. However what is important is getting solid bocks of troops in there so it is 'tactically sound'- not honed but if two people picked up different battalions and had a game against each other neither army is going to embarrass the player.

The best battalions follow that kind of 'tactical variety' approach, making the best use of the plastics available. High Elves, Ogre Kingdoms and Tomb Kings are good examples.

The worst battalion currently to my eyes is the Empire (a real bugger since i collect them :P). The poxy state troop regiments which are supposed to form the core of your force make the battalion highly unappealing. I think it would have been far better if they had ditched the knights (hey, we already have cavalry in there) and gone with a full 20 strong regiment of the halberdiers/spearmen/swordsmen. That way you'd have the option of fielding the handgunners/crossbowmen as a legitimate detatchment to a solid regiment. I would also keep the cannon if there was ever the idea to replace it with the Helblaster- rare units really have no place in a battalion.

To make this post a 'comprehensive' study i'll list what imho should be in each battalion (of the armies currently in possession of one) with a bit of reasoning

Brettonia:
I'm pretty impressed by the current battalion. Personally i dont really beleive Pegusai should be fielded as units so the lone knight works well as a commander, something few battalions (or indeed Battleforces: only the Tau with their solitary Crisis suit have a legitimate 'commander'). A quibble would be that the two peasent units arent the same size, if anything i think the archers should be the larger considering how combat orientated the battalion otherwise is.

Dark Elves:
The obvious omission for me here is the inexplicably un-plasticised repeater Bolt Thrower. I also think that the warrior regiments are badly sized, particularly compared to the full compliment of corsairs. Dark Elves are limited by the fact they only have three plastic kits, so working with what we have i'd get the warriors booted up to 20 each (providing one set with shields) and 10 Corsairs. If there was a bolt thrower i'd probably ditch the corsairs full stop: 4 units is generally as far as you can go with a battalion in terms of the economy and cohesion of the force.

Dwarfs:
No real problems with this Batallion but it is a bit dull. Now the Miners are out and you no longer make longbeards with the plastic kit i think i'd replace one of the warrior regiments with them, but it's otherwise good.

Empire:
Well i dealt with them above :)

High Elves:
Whatever you may think about their hair and hands, the High Elf Battalion is sound as a pound.

Lizardmen:
Personally i loathe the models (particularly the Saurus) with a passion but by and large the current battalion is pretty good. I think i would have preferred to see more skinks and a stegadon to get a better impression of how i see the lizardmen. It'd also be a good excuse to phase out the cold-one riders which like the empire knights have prematurely aged.

Ogre Kingdoms:
I dont agree with 'monster armies' but if you do then the battalion's a pretty cool set utilising all the plastics.

Orcs and Goblins:
Bit of a mixed bag really. People may not use them much but the orc chariot is a nice model and breaks up the masses. I dont much like the spider-riders, because you already have the night-goblins and it just looks shabby to have equal proportions of different goblins. There's also the matter of how you look at it as an addition to skull pass. From that point of view i'd probably up the orc content and augment the night goblins by trading in the spider riders for a set of the new black orcs and some fanatics :D

Skaven:
Perhaps the only exception to the 'rule of 20': Skaven are a horde army and so you've gotta have the 40 clanrats (satisfies the mainstay rule too). The plastic rat-ogres and rats though are bloody awful models and so i'd actually trade them in for 20 nightrunners. It would be a very boring battalion but better tedium than an eyesore :rolleyes: (who wants a single pack of giant rats anyway?)

Tomb Kings:
Compositionally beautiful, all GW have to do is completely resculpt the models to fit the new look skeletons ;).

Vampire Counts:
One of those really tempting Battalions: two solid regiments, a bit of an elite and something for the weekend :D. Personally i dont care much for the new ghoul models and even less for their rules since they stopped skirmishing, so personally i'd get rid of them in favour of some Dire Wolves, add a bit of speed to the otherwise exclusively shambling horde.

Warriors of Chaos:
Another really tasty Battalion, changes to which come down to purely personal opinion again. Considering the emphasis on the 'northern tribes' i'd trade the knights in for marauder horsemen.

Wood Elves:
I'm very happy with it- the extra glade guard as scouts really works.

Dr Death

Cypher, the Emperor
07-04-2009, 03:39
The bret box should probably be something like:

8x KoTR
8x KoTR
3x Pegasus Knights

At 90$ a box, that saves you a whopping 15$, which is less than a lot of boxes save you, AND its a really good starting point for a brettonia army.

I never even got why the Orc Battalion sold at all, I mean, you look at that thing and go "Wait, I can pay 90$, a good chunk of it which is one box of goblins and some spider riders, or I can go buy another copy of skull pass (with WAY MORE goblins and spider riders!) and sped the remaining 45$ on some Orcs and Borcs.

devolutionary
07-04-2009, 03:47
As a Bret player, I disagree. For two reasons;
1) Peasant Bowmen (or any infantry) are important, even for Brets
2) Encouraging mass Pegasi is just asking for trouble once more. People eased up on Bret hate when the Batallion was reduced to a single Pegasi, so let's keep it that way ;)

If anything, my view on the Bret's would be;

12x KotR (option as a bus or two legit lances)
1x Pegasus
12x Bowmen
1x Plastic Paladin/BSB (There! I said it!)

selone
07-04-2009, 11:41
An ideal High Elf battalion would look like this in my opinion:

20 Spearmen
12 Archers
12 Silver Helms
1 Bolt Thrower

Possibly ad 4 Spearmen and drop the knights to 8

You'd honestly want 8 or even 12 silver helms?