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Gus Train
29-03-2009, 11:44
I guess it's really an opinion thing, but I'm just wondering how weak/viable a complete Mech-Hardened Vets list would be as opposed to my original (yet unoriginal) idea of swarms of basic troops?(the idea of moving them all in the movement phase really put me off it)

I was thinking of 4 Vets squads in Chimeras, with 3 Special weapons and running them in pairs to claim objectives so they could at least overcome their fragility with 6 Special weapons and 2 sets of Transport-mounted Heavy bolters/Multi-lasers.

Oh and I plan to squeeze in 4 Leman Russes and possibly some Vendettas/Sentinels/Hellhounds.

I understand it's not the best army composition, I'm just looking for a challenging game for me and my opponent(s) and hopefully a win every now and again (and yes, I'm a tread-head).

Steel Legion for Life
29-03-2009, 12:20
Movement trays:) It's the only way to fly with all infantry guard.

As a long term Mech player, I'm certainly intrigued by the possibility of using only Veteran Squads in chims, rather than mech platoons. I'm going to wait until I have a codex in my sticky hands before I make a call though. The main difference, on the face of it, is Veterans are more expensive, and will give more KPs than platoons. Of course, the two will cancel each other out if you load the Vets with enough gear.

I think the comparison is 4 Squads fully equipped with special weapons in Chimeras vs. two mech platoons vs. 3/4 infantry platoons with equipment.

4 Equipped with 3 special weapon Vet Squads in Chimeras = 600 ish points, 8 KP, 4 scoring units, 8 contesting units.

2 Mech Platoons with Heavy Weapon/Special Weapon (4 Squads, 2 HQ, 6 Chimeras) = 600 ish points, 8KP, 6 scoring units, 12 contesting units.

3 Infantry platoons with Heavy Weapon/Special weapon (6 Squads, 3 HQ) 500 ish points, 3 KP, 9 scoring units, 9 contesting units - but much less mobility.

As for your army comp, it depends on how many points you're shooting for.

As for the transports, I'm tempted to move most of my chimeras to Multi-laser/Heavy flamer, as I find that stopping to fire the Heavy bolter costs you precious mobility, and ultimately that's what you're paying for. I also tend to give my chimeras heavy stubbers, which are pretty effective if you're intending to move every turn (it's +100% fire power for 10 points).

Of course, maybe a mix is viable now, with sitting back Squads with HB transports and advancing squads with HF Chimeras.

Gus Train
29-03-2009, 12:36
I have seen the War of the Ring trays, but admittedly a Mech army is so much more appealing.

The Heavy Flamer is probably a much more prudent option as I'd prefer to use a Chim's speed over it's fire-power.

Your analysis of KPs, scoring units etc. opens up a fair point... 4 scoring units (and being T3 guardsmen) seems like walking on a knife's edge, but I guess that's an omnipresent element for Mech-based forces.

Oh yeah I'm aiming for 1500pts :p

Steel Legion for Life
29-03-2009, 12:40
Yeah, HQ + 4 Chimera Veterans, 4 stripped Russes, a couple of Sentinels, and a hellhound is pretty feasible on 1500pts.

I was quickly running the numbers, and HQ, 4 Chimera Veterans, 3 Hellhounds, 3 Basilisks looks a viable 1500:)

Steel Legion for Life
29-03-2009, 12:44
Oh, as for the Russes, you'll have to squadron at least two of them, but that's not all bad.

They don't block line of sight to each other, which has comedy potential, and I found in a test game yesterday (using proxy models) that putting a punisher and an exterminator (20 shot gatling & 4 shot Autocannon turrets, + HBs ofc) made for totally awesome wound allocation shenanigins, as the squadron racks up TONS of wounds.

backslide
29-03-2009, 13:08
I have been running mech for 9 months, chimeras don't move till turn 3 ish by then there is not much left! if things go well...

9 shots out to 36" is nothing to sniff at I found 6 of them not bad for 97 each.. will soon only be paying only 65!! saves me 190 points enough for a 4th russ:)

not having to have 1 for every squad means I can get to use more AT squads and anti tank squads, and vets and special weapons squads

with luck I should have enough points left for some priests and other flavour full stuff, to perhaps give a credible h2h counter attack unit

Nexus Trimean
30-03-2009, 23:41
To use the heavy flamer you have to be in charge Range, and now that everyone hits on rear that is not always a good thing.

decker_cky
31-03-2009, 01:56
If you're going the vet route, I'd fill all 6 troop slots, even in 1500 pts. Give them all chimeras and you're looking at half of your armies points before special weapons. You can sit in the chimeras and shoot out with 5 models for some pretty good but resilient firepower.

You won't be able to squeeze all the toys you want in, but chimeras are pretty good armour for their points, and you'd likely have as many vehicles as you otherwise would.

Solar_Eclipse
31-03-2009, 02:30
i'd go the veteran Mechanised route.

You get better Mechanised Squads with more power when they disembark (Demo Charge+2 Meltas or flamers), you dont invest so much into Chimeras (you dont have command squads to waste Chimeras on).

You dont even have to buy a Command squad, i would get a Primaris or a Commissar Lord as your HQ (or maybe both!)

in 1500 points you can do something like:

Commissar Lord- 70
Primaris Psyker w/ Force weapon- 80

10 vets with demolitions, 2x Meltaguns- 120
Chimera- 55

10 vets with demolitions, 2x Meltaguns- 120
Chimera- 55

10 vets with Demolitions, 2x Flamers- 120
Chimera- 55

10 vets with Demolitions, 2x Flamers- 120
Chimera- 55

Vendetta- 130

3x Hydras- 225

2x Griffons- 150

1 Colossus- 140

Total- 1500

Youve got the Vet squads who are good at taking anything (Frag and Meltabombs on all) and good shooting with the Demo Charge supporting.

You have a nasty amount of firepower so your elite army can still take on Hordes, Chimera weapons+3x Hydras+2x griffons means you can still smack down alot of horde troops and light vehicles.

The colossus is there to smack down MEQ squads from terrain when you need it too.

The Commissar Lord gives His Ld to nearby squads, but mostly he is there to fight. The Primaris Psyker adds a hell of a punch to you.

Also, remember that 5 models can fire from Chimeras without making it open topped. So Demo Charge, 2 Meltaguns, Primaris and a single Lasgun. :P you hardly need to disembark.

The Vendetta is there to give Lascannon support, maybe even outflanking lascannon support if you feel like it.

Have fun!

Gus Train
31-03-2009, 02:34
@ Nexus: Well I'm hoping the combined firepower of the Chimera and the Vets should be enough to at least prevent said charging unit from crippling my transport but with every man and his dog carrying grenades as standard these days I spose that's a fair point.

@ decker: Having 6 scoring units would make me feel a little safer, just zip around in my Chim's until it's time to disembark and claim/contest objectives.

In regards to toys, the Vets ARE my toys! All those special weapons :D

I'm not really wanting to include any Valks/Vendettas and I may even forgo my armada of Russes in favour of some flanking-suicide Sentinels (seems to fit the vet theme a little better) to tie up or maybe even destroy some enemy units.

Gus Train
31-03-2009, 02:40
@ Solar: I'm loving the idea of a Primaris launching his lightning bolts out of the Chimera! I also love the new Primaris model and it would be a nice alternative to your run-of-the-mill Command HQ.

The Hydras are also very tempting as I'm a huge fan of Autocannons. Sure they're not overtly tough but they will make a mess of bikes, transports and would supplement my lack of HWT's.

This is all getting very exciting, so many ways to play around with the new codex!

decker_cky
31-03-2009, 02:45
Flank marching sentinels would fill anti-armour well enough (not quite as well as a vendetta, but they're a little more resilient and easier to hide).

I wouldn't bother with any of the specializations on the vets. Meltabombs are nice, but you already have krak grenades, and while it's not a bad deal, I'd rather an extra special weapon per squad than demo charges (not the slot, the points).

I know you're thinking of avoiding taking a vendetta or russ altogether, but this was the list I threw together earlier for an idea on how I would do the list:

Vets w/ 3 GL
Chimera
Vets w/ 3 plas
Chimera
Vets w/ 3 meltas
Chimera
Vets w/ 3 meltas
Chimera
Vets w/ 3 flamers
Chimera
Vets w/ 3 GL
Chimera
Eradicator w/ Lascannon
Commissar Lord w/ fist
Vendetta
Demolisher w/ Lascannon

backslide
31-03-2009, 05:05
well I'm not going for the toal vet thing this is my attempt:

HQ 3 plasma (since they are BS 4!)
Officer has power fist
Chimera heavy stubber (9 36" range shots each)

Primirias Psyker (2d6 S6 at BS4!)

Infantry platoon

command section 3 plasma
Chimera heavy stubber

Infantry Squad, plas & missile
Chimera heavy stubber

Infantry Squad, plas & missile
Chimera heavy stubber

Heavy weapons squad 3 lascannons

Heavy weapons squad 3 lascannons

Heavy weapons squad 3 Autocannons (75 points each? sure!!)

Heavy weapons squad 3 Autocannons

Vet squad 3 meltas
Chimera heavy stubber

Leman Russ 3 HB's

Leman Russ 1 HB and 2 heavy plasmas

Leman Russ 1 HB and 2 heavy plasmas

bang on 1750 based off the rummors, and most of it is painted

needs some advisers in the HQ and I might try to find the points for a 4th rus

where I play there is generaly enough cover for all those heavy weapons teams, might drop an auto squad for a special weapons squad with 2/3 demo's as a goalkeeper squad

Solar_Eclipse
31-03-2009, 07:12
The problem i see with that list, backslide, is that it is overly fragile and not very mechanised.

I think when you want to go for a powerful mechanised list you will need veterans so you arent buying so many Chimeras that you dont have the points for other things.

Also, if all your force is mechanised except for your heavy weapons teams, that means that the entirety of your enemies anti infantry firepower is going against them, they will die very quickly.

That is why full mechnisation is so powerful, it renders a number of your enemy weapons useless for the first few turns.

Axis
31-03-2009, 07:15
Horde can be good but you run the risk of time issues not to mention you might not want to paint that many models. I've often wanted to do it but the painting factor kicks me in the nuts each time.

backslide
31-03-2009, 08:49
oh dear.. time and time again I post mech guard lists all over the net, and people for some reason assume I intend to actually move!

in this list the only things I actuallu intend to mount and move in the chimeras is the platoon command section and the vets and perhaps another line squad, even they will likly sit on the baseline for a turn or too while the chimers blase away with 9 shots each, then move forward as needed

it is perhaps a little heavy on the HWS but not having had acces to them till now means I very keen to try them

and now with the end of the mech dotrine not everything has to have a chimera I can just pick and choose, will gives me much more freedom in making a list

Solar_Eclipse
31-03-2009, 08:51
oh dear.. time and time again I post mech guard lists all over the net, and people for some reason assume I intend to actually move!

well it depends, i always try to play my armies how i think they will play and most Imperial Guard Mech armies do so in cavalry charges.

ColonelGreiss
31-03-2009, 09:09
My current 2k list idea. This is without the codex in front of me.

Command Squad, Astropath, fleet officer, officer with plasma pistol and ccw, 4 plasma guns,

Chim with stubber, laser, bolter,

AlRaheem, 2 body guard, 4 plas,

Chim with stubber, laser, bolter,

3 sws squads, 3 demo charge,

3 inf squads, GL, Autocannon

3 Chimera, same loadout

Hardened vets, Demolitions, 2 flamer, heavy flamer, power fist,

Hardened vets, Demolitions, 2 flamer, heavy flamer, power fist,

Vendetta

Vendetta (seperate Choice)

heres around 1500 with a bit of room for more upgrades (maybe commissar in the vet squad with fist? or medic in plasma squads?) and or misreported costs

10 Rough Riders, melta bomb on sarge,

2 griffon

1 griffon

2 griffon

2k pts.

and more room for upgrades / errors.

Out flanking Alraheems platoon seems insane, chimeras with that much firepower coming out of their firing hatches are awesome, ALSO outfalnking the veterans in vendettas is awesome, and then griffons cuz they are cheap and awesome, and one squad of rough riders to protect said griffons, since the rest of the army wont be anywhere near them :D. Seems awesome. Outflank al rheem on one board edge, vendettas on the other, griffons in the middle. Lets see any army avoid getting crushed then. Mass demo charges, lots of flamy good ness. vendettas and melta bombs for at, chimeras and griffon for anti geq, two plasma chims for anti meq. And if you really want your demo charges to hit, you can merge your three small squads into a big squad, and jump the sws into their buddies chimeras for a little drive by demo chargin :D.

Im getting a little hot right now.

And all i need for it, is like 3 IC and 3 griffons. And a couple more demo charge models. I love demo charges. so much.

edit: maybe i should change the single grif for a basilisk, for a little more hitting power....and i already have one of em :D.

backslide
31-03-2009, 09:11
well it depends, i always try to play my armies how i think they will play and most Imperial Guard Mech armies do so in cavalry charges.

well I think of them like a cold war soviet 'motor rifle' unit

a motor rifle division was made up of 3 mech infantry regiments and a tank regiment, and as often as not had corps independant tank batlaions attached as well

they all had a 73mm gun on every transport that had a good HE round and missiles to use for AT work

the dotrine before 1973 was the APC's would lead the attack, with almost all of the infantry dismounted behind!, in 73 the egyptians tryed it... it did not work... lol Soviets then changed it around, APCs would carry the troops to the edge of the battle field and infantry would actually take ground mostly on foot, read tom clancys RED STORM RISING gives you a good idea what a 1980's WW3 would have been like

if objectives arn't a worry I have fielded the entire army dismounted, looks impressive on the table! 10 tanks and 50 infantry look good on the table

ColonelGreiss
31-03-2009, 09:20
Also, hws mounted in an inf squads chimera (since they cant get their own :() is pretty mean. I mean chimeras with 3 lascannons firing out :D. Also helps you avoid the whole 2 w t 3 insta death problem.

Solar_Eclipse
31-03-2009, 09:27
@backslide:

Thats all well and good, but it really depends on the fluff of your regiment.

My Krieg, for example, dont use Russes, all i have is Artillery and ALL of my infantry is used to charge forward, my infantry never stand still, i use all 100 or so of them in 2000 points (Check the Guard Tactica for the list) to just charge forward and create pressure while the Artillery shouts loudly...with shells.

backslide
31-03-2009, 09:48
well I figure its tactics, fluff and tactics dont need to relate that closely

I actually have trator guard lol catachans with gasmasks, a few mutant arms, only the officers don't wear masks, planning on using a demon host model as a primaris pskyer

have a thread in the blog section


http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158717