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MajorCorruption
29-03-2009, 13:51
I'm new to Fantasy and starting a pure Khorne DoC army. I'm building to 2250 and own 40 bloodletter. I've gotten a lot of wildly differing opinions on how to field them, and before I buy anymore or starting gluing horns or standards to any of them I want a direction to move towards. Here are the most advocated suggestions I've received on fielding them, also worth mentioning that I'm trying to field an effective list but I'm not too keen on fielding bare minimum units.

1.) 1 unit of 18 w/ Champ & Standard + 2 units of 10 w/ no upgrades.
2.) 1 unit of 20 w/ full command + 2 units of 12 w/ musicians.
3.) 1 unit of 15 w/ full command + 2 units of 12 w/ musicians.
4.) 3 units of 12 w/ musicians.
5.) 3 units of 10 w/ no upgrades.

I'm leaning towards 4.

danny-d-b
29-03-2009, 14:04
first of all
don't bother with musician at all
They are usless in deamon armys in my view

2nd they rock with herolds in them, so if possible try to have a herold in each unit, other wise your not going to be doing enough dammge

selone
29-03-2009, 18:00
You could always take one unit of 16 (with herald on juggernaut on and FC) and 2 units of 12 (naked) Thats your 3 core units one unit of 4x5 and 2 of 2x6 with exactly 40 models :)

Lijacote
29-03-2009, 22:21
Musicians, useless in a fear-causing army? Equine poo, that is. 6 points to turn a draw into a victory or a near loss into a draw (rolling Instability might contrary to popular knowledge end... poorly)

I think every option except 5) is quite viable depending on your other choices, like heralds and their positioning + support units. Minimum core is.... hmm.

sulla
30-03-2009, 04:08
Musicians, useless in a fear-causing army? Equine poo, that is. 6 points to turn a draw into a victory or a near loss into a draw (rolling Instability might contrary to popular knowledge end... poorly)


Fear causing is not worth all that much in the modern game. Every man and his dog is already fear causing or immune to psych.

Fenrir
30-03-2009, 10:33
I use 4 units of 12 with full command. This provides a good base line for the army to work around. You can fill up a decent wedge of the table, but not all of it.

Musicians are a pretty important, here as it turns the draw into a win and auto break or stops you having to roll instability. Standard is there to help with CR, as ranks are few. The champion is there to take any fights I don't fancy - challenging the nastier opposing character and getting the champion killed, giving away auto kill, means that there are more standard 'letters to fight the soft unit and rebalance the CR.

Lijacote
30-03-2009, 12:47
Fear causing is not worth all that much in the modern game. Every man and his dog is already fear causing or immune to psych.

The "loss to draw, draw to victory" point still stands. And I can hardly believe everyone and their dog is immune to fear or psych, otherwise why would everyone* be complaining about that aspect of daemons?


*Exaggeration

MajorCorruption
30-03-2009, 18:18
I really dont want to spend the points to field 48 bloodletter... Call me cheesy if you want but I want my army to have: A thirster, two heralds on juggernauts, three units of hounds, and at least two bloodcrushers. That leaves at most 520 points for bloodletters. I also don't know if I want to put standards into 12 man units due to VP issues, bloodletters aren't that sturdy for their points.

selone
30-03-2009, 18:28
That you don't major corruption as if they get charged lose a few lose a few more to instability you're in real trouble. I like my idea more that i think about it, pats himself on the back :)

MajorCorruption
30-03-2009, 19:12
Selone, with your option, say I want to put the herald elsewhere in a given game. Do I rank up the letters 6, 6, and 4? Adding to that point, how crucial is it to have the herald in there to make this work?

jax40kplyr1
30-03-2009, 19:39
Heralds give your units hatred, so pretty much hitting on 3s with a reroll is vital. Considering that your guys only have 1 attack each - wounding they'll do fine, but hitting is the all important thing with bloodletters.
If your going to run units of 12, I wouldn't even bother with a standard. They should be used as a flanking force, as you need the rank bonuses to compete more with larger block units.
The problem with them running in such small units though is that they only have to take 2 casualties (T3 isn't that great) and they lose the rank bonus. If you run them into a unit of 5x4, your looking at +3 ranks, +1 outnumber, +1 standard. Statistically without a herald, you'll lose combat (7 attacks, wound 3 or 4 times = lose by 2 or so).
Me personally, I'd run a herald on juggernaut, 6x3. Your herald counts as 4 models now with the new FAQ out, has several nice attacks, gives the locus of khorne - in a pinch, can charge out on the juggernaut against those nice warmachines and stuff which will be tearing you up.

selone
30-03-2009, 19:40
It's sort of set up to have the herald in, he adds depth to the unit and the hatred really makes the unit work. If you can't or won't put a herald in, I'd try something else than my suggestion :)

MajorCorruption
30-03-2009, 22:03
I currently have the idea of taking two heralds on juggernauts, one will join a unit of hounds and the other a unit of crushers. I've been told I would be doing myself a great disservice by not taking at least one hound+herald combo, and I just personally like the idea of a herald and two bloodcrushers. So If I'm going to add a herald to a unit of letter It means I'm either going to have to try and work in another herald or at least another crusher to bring my unit up to three strong.

selone
30-03-2009, 22:22
Hound + herald is very strong yep and you want to use that option but take it from me as someone that has faced blood letters they're much better with a herald. I don't think you need a herald with bloodcrushers but I've never seen them in battle so you'd have to ask someone else.
If you're going to take mimimum core (which I think you were wary of) then fine have a trio of small units (10-12), but if you want a biggish unit, 16, 18, 20 or whatever as myself and jax40kplyr1 suggest you really need a herald.
You really, really want those high strength, KB attacks to hit and hatred is the ticket, a unit which has command and 3 ranks with hatred is much better than one without hatred. It feels like everytime I meet bloodletters with a herald they all hit, anyways :D

CrownAxe
30-03-2009, 22:27
I'm currently running 14 w/ Standard and Musician with a herald of a jugger

Fenrir
31-03-2009, 11:07
Bloodthirster, minimum core, heralds on juggers and 15+ flesh hounds? Hope you don't have a thin skin, as people are going to moan about facing that - even above the normal moaning about daemons.

MajorCorruption
31-03-2009, 13:38
I don't play with many moaners...

Fenrir
31-03-2009, 14:37
I don't play with many moaners...

You will when you start using daemons. People can't help it - check the amount of daemoaning threads on warseer.

MajorCorruption
05-04-2009, 19:29
How about; 14 + Standard, 12 w/ Musician, and 12 w/ Musician. Herald on a jugger in the unit of 14 makes 3 ranks of 6. The points work out to 480 which is perfect for my list. Sound ok?

bob_the_small
05-04-2009, 19:34
i would take a block of bloodletters with a herald and FC, and 2 flanking units of 12(nothing on them).

MajorCorruption
05-04-2009, 19:42
points wise I can't pull off full command, but I can drop the two musicians from the 12 man units and put a champ in the unit of 14.

templarjoe
06-04-2009, 17:17
Get some nurgle and Tzeench, you know you want to.