View Full Version : Chronicle of Mindwarper (WOC)

29-03-2009, 19:39
Well will be cracking out the WOC again, here’s the old fluff (HOC days):

Ernst Schmidt sat and considered recent events. Since arriving with his caravan of goods and tales of the death of his father, mother and most of the caravan guards at the hands of beastmen things had gone well. His second in command Friedrich had caused quite a stir with his superlative swordsmanship in a recent tourneys and now many young noble sons were eager to study under his tutelage. Since the lucrative sale of the goods from his initial army he had been able to build quite a strong force of caravan guards, telling all and sundry that the next time beastmen dared to attack him or his caravans there would be a fell price for them to pay.

This expenditure on guards and mercenary forces, many recruited from the rougher areas of the north and border princes had paid off handsomely when he was able to defeat and destroy the warband of the beastlord Ungtarg and take his head as a trophy back to Altdorf. He had been hailed as a hero and a canny man of business. When he offered the use of his guards and mercenaries to defend the walls and gates of Altdorf when the chaos horde of Archaon swept from the north whilst many merchant princes and petty nobles kept their men to their sides for their own defence he was hailed as a patriot. As his well armed caravans were seldom plagued by bandits or beastmen other merchants were happy to pay extra for him to carry their goods and this with the many more tradeable goods he had acquired had quickly made him a rich man and, in the minds of many, a model for the people of the Empire to aspire to. Using these funds his keep to the West of the Reikwald forest was well on its way to completion providing him with a stronghold to match that of any Baron in the realm.

Ernst considered the changes that had led him to hold such lofty accolades and increasing material and social power. Duping the people to believe he had been attacked had been remarkably easy and had gained him a great deal of sympathy. Meeting the shaman Tzrain, who held a staff twin in appearance although of lesser power to his own was certainly more than simple chance. By aiding Tzrain by destroying his rival Ungtarg had been a simple matter and now he could call upon Tzrain's aid whenever was needed. Many times had he used his caravan guards together with the beasts of Tzrain to sack and plunder other caravans and all the evidence later found would simply point to another beastman attack. The gains from this were threefold, he could sell the plundered goods, sacrifice captives to please his master and more and more merchants sought to send their goods via his caravans, further filling his coffers. It had also allowed him access to buy some of the gunpowder engines of war that the Engineer's guild were so famous for allowing to augment the power of his archers with their recurved Cathayan bows.

More and more young nobles and merchants sons were coming under his sway whether by seeking to be employed with his merchant guild, or by seeking to study under Friedrich, gradually they were changing and the coven grew unbeknownst at the heart of the empire. The failure of Archaon to reach Altdorf had been a pity since with his men at the walls key areas could have been taken swiftly- attacked from both within and without, still the very act of offering his men had bought the love of the commoners and lower orders. To turn failure into success was something that pleased his master. At the thought of is master his gaze turned to the symbol etched on the wall of his sanctum, the twin tailed comet of Sigmar with the Withering Eye of the great trickster burning at its heart, an Irony he was sure Tzeentch would enjoy.

Since that fluff is more or less gutted by the chaos split and later changes, here’s my attempt to update it:

Friedrich smashed the door to splinters with his armoured fist and led the charge inside. The room reeked with an impossible stench, around a table of oozing bone where seven chanting figures in brown sat or, for the more corpulent ones, squatted in their folds of flesh. The figure at the head of the table stood pointed and shrieked a word that rent at the ears of those who heard it and the chosen warriors in front of Friedrich consumed by an awful disease that led to fingers, limbs and even heads to sicken, wither and fall from the bodies. As the dread spell reached him Friedrich summoned all his magical power to fight the plague but the focused power of the pestilent coven broke down his defences and he fell to the ground, desperately trying to fight the pestilent magic with his own.

A blue light filled the room and his master strode through the door, the eye-shaped rune on his forehead burning with white fire and his sacred staff twisting with bound power. His master unleashed his titanic power against that of the coven is a burst of twisting change, the wards of the coven held but one of the chanters head’s exploded from the magical pressure. The coven’s leader rasped an incantation and the remaining men around the master dissolved into pestilent slime, the master’s rune dulled it’s radiance to little more than a glow and the master’s stride slowed and stopped. The coven’s leader whispered another fell word and sorcery enveloped the master who almost fell to the floor under it’s power, his hold on the staff all that kept him upright. Friedrich gasped and tried to aid the master but all his power was expended in keeping the magical disease that infected him. Whilst the chanting of the other five continued the coven leader screamed another incantation and buboes and pustules appeared on his master’s handsome face. The master screamed a word which felt like talons rending upon the ears and through the power of the staff summoned a gatway to the realm of Tzeentch himself sucking the coven leader screaming in to the land of his patron’s eternal enemy. The chanters screamed as one and three fountained blood from their eyes and mouth whilst the remaining two slumped two the floor like abandoned puppets. Yet still the disease in the master continued unchecked, Friedrich watched as his master called upon the great changer to purge himself and a bolt of blue fire seared through him. The master tried to scream through a throat seared by the energies and dropped to his hands and knees. His great staff (oo-er) had been consumed by the spell he unleashed. The master turned his head to look at Friedrich, the blue eyes in the racked face carrying a melancholy intensity as he managed to whisper “I’m sorry Friedrich, I cannot save you in time”. “I know master, end me quickly” there was a cerulean flash and Friedrich’s soul was rent from his body…

Ernst lay in his “deathbed” trying to harness as best he could, the wind of Ghyran to restore his shattered body. Consciousness came fleetingly but he was no longer, he believed, in danger of death.


The double doors opened and the Imperial herald walked arrogantly into the hall of Ernst Schmidt, Merchant Prince of Altdorf. Ernst clumsily motioned to his apprentice Reiner who gave the herald permission to speak.
“On behalf of the Emperor, Karl Franz, let it be known that whilst we consider ourselves forever in his debt for his tireless assistance against the agents of chaos, and in particular the cult of one of their foul gods last month, we hereby award Ernst Schmidt the title of protector of the city and, in recognition of his efforts and ownership of the Breitenlohe castle and lands name him baron with all titles and privileges therof”.

Ernst looked to Reiner again who replied to the herald
“Please convey to the Emperor the heartfelt thanks of my master, Ernst Schmidt, who hopes, despite his invalid state, to continue to assist the Empire in both destroying the chaos threat, and enriching the lives of all within the Empire through trade and reconstruction of the damage done by the incursion last year”.

The herald bowed and left the chamber.

Reiner turned to his master,
“My lord, what now? Tzrain was slain in the purge of the forest following the incursion and many of the chosen ones and norsemen were slain in defeating the fell followers of Nurglen”
Ernst Schmidt turned his burning gaze on Reiner,
“True, but there are new opportunities as well”
“But master the staff of change is destroyed and your body has been shattered”
Ernst gestured with his finger and Reiner was hurled against the wall with shattering magical force.
“I am far from spent Reiner, send out our men to find those abandoned in Archaon’s failure, gather the mutated babe left in the forests and even those creatures that tore their way out of their mothers. Take them to the castle and to those that are big enough, weld armour to their hides, these forsaken ones will be the animals we will unleash upon villages and caravans, we will have no need to depend upon the beastmen now. And bring the soul-less ones to me, I think they may prove very useful”
“Yes master” whined Reiner piteously.


Ernst stared at the gleaming skull of one of the dead coven members, lying on the stone table in a pool of his own blood and whispered the closing incantation, the skull glowed black and shrank in size to little bigger than his clenched fist. He picked up the length of ensorcelled gold chain and, with a though,t welded the chain to the miniature skull. In the courtyard below he could hear the clash of swordplay, the mightiest of the norse chiefs he had called or paid to his banner fought beneath the watchful eyes of his chosen for the honour of a gift of chaos armour, a gift that would increase their bloodlust even further and imbue them with terrifying strength. The Nurglen mages of the coven who had survive had barely a glimmer of self will left after the loss of their leader whilst being bound to him by magic, Ernst had bound what remained to his will and from now on they would obey him without even the chance of question. He had even given the forbidden puppet for one of them to use, the irony of it amused him. Reiner’s progress in the dark arts continued, and only his own physical weakness continued to dismay, whilst few mortal swordmen could best him, he was no longer capable of the almost godlike feats of before. He concentrated on the amulet, this would restore his strength and vitality on the field of battle. He placed the amulet around his neck, picked up his enchanted sword and whispered a word of power as he swung the sword at the castle wall. The enchantment in the sword screamed protest as it cut through three foot of hardened granite. As a section of the wall fell to the courtyard below Ernst smiled, the past year had been very eventful, but all it needed was a change in approach, a change in methods and a change in his forces. Ernst placed his helm over his head and picked up his enchanted shield and Mindwarper, lord of Tzeentch strode down the stairs to watch the melee below.

2250 List:

Mindwarper, level 4 sorceror of Tzeentch, spell familiar, armour of change (enchanted shield and collar of Khorne), bloodskull amulet. (general) 390
Wrackspew, level 2 sorceror of Nurgle, forbidden puppet 175
Quakegrim, level 2 sorceror of Nurgle, power familiar, book of secrets, barded steed, 206
- magic heavy being the order of the day, level 4 quite a multitasker as well.


18 Norse marauders, GW (Khorne marauders) 120
- cheap and quite scary (fold like a paper bag if charged though)
5 Mounted marauders, flail, musician 81
2*5 warhounds 60
- general annoyance shenanigans, one unit to screen frenzied knights
14 Chosen guard, FC, shields, warbanner (slaanesh warriors) 289
- with the characters have static CR of +5, with front rank getting 12 S4 attacks and 3 S8 autohitting killing blow attacks for cavalry and armour save killing.

6 Forsaken 108- fairly tough, moderately scary and moderately fast, hopefully moderately useful. They will be my dirty disposable combat unit. They are as resistant to shooting as two units of marauder cavalry and dangerous enough that they should draw some attention. If some survive the enemy shooting/magic the remainder will go for wizards or war machines. 108 points for a fast unit that your opponent has to deal with isn’t bad IMO. The very thing that makes them unreliable also makes them a threat- 24 S4 attacks at Ws4 is scary against anything. Also, unlike marauder horsemen, they can run up a flank at enemy war machines guarded by missile troops and win when they get there.
6 Knights of Tzeentch, standard: blasted 315
- Hammer, don’t hit as hard as the khorne ones but are a bit more reliable, also can weather a bit of war machine fire against gunlines.
6 Knights of fury (Khorne marked) 230
- Pure mindless hammery goodness, wonderful against infantry, good against cavalry, only suck against monsters
3 Disc-Ogres, GW (dragon ogres) 231
- Semi hammer, great against knights, great against monsters, great against chariots, great character hunters, not great against static CR.

Two wave attack, fast attack units to the fore with hounds, infantry as the second wave both to keep the sorcerors out of combat for a while and to mop up what’s left of the enemy. The warriors can also handle the units in the game that knights can’t handle (ironbreakers, temple guard, white lions with characters) and MR2 means the unit is fairly resistant to magic. Marauders should be pretty nasty as well if the enemy fast units can be taken down by mine or by magic- 12 S5 attacks and +2 ranks is a fair bit of hurt.
Total: 2250
DD: 6 (no scrolls though, bit of a concern, pandemonium and puppet and MR2)
Models: 82

I’ve tried to fit a fair few different troop types in the army and dropped my exalted bsb on disk in favour of the dragon ogres. Forsaken are there because I think that despite the contempt for them on the internet, they can actually work. The warriors unit (with all three characters) will be 6*3 and together with the MOK marauders will be the second wave mop up units. I may well drop the standard on the Tzeentch knights for another two units of 5 hounds, but I’ll try out this list first.

The warrior unit will be worth an awful lot of VPS (1250 or so) but hopefully won’t be easy to get to unless I allow it and has a fair bit of points denial potential. Immunity to most forms of psychology and MR2 should help as well. Even uber flying things will have trouble with the unit’s static res and challenging champ with a 2+ save, especially when I have a unit of marauders to flank with.

1500 list (led by Reiner)

Reiner, level 2 sorceror of Tzeentch, steed, collar of Khorne, scroll, general 206
Wrackspew, level 2 sorceror of Nurgle rod of torment 185
Quakegrim, level 2 sorceror of Nurgle, power familiar, book of secrets 190


11 Chosen guard, FC, shields, warbanner (slaanesh warriors) 241 (3*5)
5 marauder horsemen, flails, throwing spears, musician 86
18 Norse marauders, GW (khorne), musician 124
3*5 warhounds 90

6 Forsaken 108
6 Knights of fury (Khorne marked) 230

DD: 5
Models: 64

29-03-2009, 23:10
Lovely fluff and a nice mixed list, and faith in the Forsaken :) looks fine to me, but remember, remember the marbles I've lost...

I look forward to reading reports on this.

30-03-2009, 06:31
That's a VERY elite army you got going there, and the one large block you have can be easily baited.

If used right I'm sure it will do ok but I think you're going to have trouble.

We'll see :)

30-03-2009, 07:43
That's a VERY elite army you got going there, and the one large block you have can be easily baited.

If used right I'm sure it will do ok but I think you're going to have trouble.

We'll see :)

It is indeed but I've found multiple large blocks of marauders can get run down by anything (Ld8 when near the general is pretty poor). It's actually got 2 "big" blocks- both warriors and marauders will have 18 models and be in 6*3 formation. Also most things have a very high save and/or multiple wounds.

If it doesn't work the tzeentch knights will get banner of rage, and khorne knights will be replaced by a big block of marauders, second unit of horsemen and a unit of hounds. Still I reckon the list should work well enough, although I'd love 2 more units of hounds.

The marauder block won't be in the front line to begin with so won't be baitable early days.

I'm interested though, what kind of builds do you think will give this list trouble?

@Lijacote, thanks

30-03-2009, 14:58
Well obviously ones with a good amount of shooting/warmachines will give it trouble.

Magic heavy armies have to be careful as more people are putting a lot more into magic defense. A couple of scroll caddies would keep your magic down long enough to keep the shooty units alive until combat.

As always dragon armies are the death of WoC armies, but being even more elite than usual this hurts you even more.

30-03-2009, 15:05
I am waiting patiently to hear how the Forsaken do. I would really love to field a unit of them, especially since I already have 8 or so models painted up that would fit the bill. I just haven't read of anybody using them, so am not yet willing to try them out.

30-03-2009, 17:11
I'm hoping they work too, I posted my thoughts on them in another forum, but I;ll copy them here:

I've been reconsidering these buggers and have decided to give them a try for the following reasons:
1) One reason for not taking them is that they are not dependable, but that randomness goes both ways, an opponent can't let them run free.
2) Although they can't fulfill any single role better than other chaos units they are the cheapest unit that has enough hitting power, M and toughness. Importantly they are about as resistant to magic missiles and shooting as 2 units of marauder horsemen.
3) They are not vital to the rest of my list and are cheap enough to be expendable.
4) If depleted to 4 or less they will be used as missile/war machine/mage hunters.
5) Sometimes I'll run them down a flank at war machines (a role marauder horsemen don't have the resilience/hittiness to do well enough at. Yes marauder horsemen get there a turn earlier but missile troops take them down easily and that's what tends to protect war machines. Horsemen (assuming WOC gets first turn) will take one volley at short range from 10 bowmen and 1 stand and shoot= 3.5 dead marauders and 1 horseman will struggle against even war machine crew.
Against forsaken those bowmen get 1 long range, 1 short range and 1 stand and shoot= 2.5 dead forsaken. 3 left are enough to get the job done. The other war machine protection tends to be light cavalry and forsaken can take a charge from most light cavalry (even mounted marauders) and beat them soundly with return attacks. Horsemen can be beaten by any light cavalry in the game if charged.
6) Otherwise they will be run ahead of the warriors, the only combat units that can take them (fast enough to get the charge) down are medium heavy cavalry and chariots. Any unit that takes out my forsaken early will end up either sitting in front of my warrior block, or will overrun into it if I allow it. Anything short of the heaviest cavalry/heavy static res cav my warrior block can take down with 2+ saves, +5static CR and 3 S8 kb hits (and the warriors attacks etc.) I can also flank the unit with the marauder block if need be (15S5 attacks). If the forsaken broke from combat rather than being wiped out they might even rally.
7) Finally I might send them into woods/difficult terrain if need be to prevent harassmen from that area. They won't catch much but can keep a flank clear for a while.
- I don't expect them to survive the battle, I don't need them to win any combats, they are there just to make life difficult for my opponent.

Let's see how far the theoryhammer goes in real battles :)

@Malorian, yes gunlines are an issue, but they were a problem before with my other list which had 3 units of marauder horsemen, 3 big units of marauders and a bsb on disk (the sorceror was on a disk for a while as well but tended to die even with the 3+ ward), bsb on disk died an awful lot too (fanatics). Marauders could absorb shooting but with all the hitty parts dead (one unit of knights) they were not really capable of taking anything down. I think it's simply a weakness with WOC compared to HOC and now most missile troops will find few good targets in the list to shoot at.

Empire gunline aside though I think it has a chance, dwarves can do the gunline but gateway and buboes can also get a lot more points pack against them.

This weekend I'll be able to game both days (wife is away on a trip) so I should get a few games in, hoping for a rematch against Teclis and caradryan list. I'll try to get a few battles in with WOC and another 2250 in with the lizards- fingers crossed for opponents showing up.

03-04-2009, 01:50
Wow I loved the fluff. Not much of an opinion on the list, because I don't play WOC.

03-04-2009, 16:28
If you are planning to keep writing like this I look forward to reading your battle reports.

03-04-2009, 17:55
Thank you both :)

I'll try to keep up the fluff side as well as I can for both my report logs, can't guarantee quality though ;)

05-04-2009, 14:48
Mindwarper strode into the hall, fully armed and armoured
“Yes master?”, asked Reiner, surprised to see his master in full panoply of war when no threats loomed and no attacks had been planned.
“Order Andreas to assemble the men and the mindless ones, we go to battle, I have summoned a fleet of longships to the wastelands for passage to Albion”
“Albion, my lord?” queried Reiner
“Indeed, one of the sorcerors of Belakor was discovered by the slann raising the dead of the island of wights, and they have dispatched a force to take him prisoner”
“You hope to use him sire?”
“Aye, use him and use his base. Enough, do my bidding, we march within the hour”

The sky was black, only the faintest shimmering of moonlight pierced the mists of Albion. The lap of waves was almost the only sound in the night. Only the most acute ear would be able to hear the sound of oars muffled with black cloth dipping deliberately into the sea in perfect synchrony, such was the experience of the crews that no drum was needed to ensure a perfect rhythm of strokes. The black sails on the masts of the longboats were furled and the low profile of the boats was almost invisible to those on shore, their night vision blinded by the numerous watch fires they had set and huddled around - for cold blooded creatures like not the cold damp of Albion.

Like twelve wolves the longboats moved stealthily towards the ships tied up by the shore , downwind of the foe so that there was no chance of the sentries smelling the odour of tar, pitch, mail and human sweat that hung around the boats.

A tall figure in ornate cerulean armour stood at the prow of one of the boars staring intently at the enemy ships in the gloom above, calculating distances and times “Now” he commanded in a whisper that through magic all could hear. Immediately the stroke doubled and grappling hooks were readied, too late the sentries on the ships heard the approach, warnings were cried in strange tongues as the whistle and crunch of grappling hooks biting into the wood of the ships signaled the presence of the Chaos force. Three of the four ships were taken in minutes whilst the crew of the remaining one desperately manned oars in an attempt to escape. The cerulean figure whispered an incantation and gestured at the ship and a bolt of blue black light cut through the night and through the hull of the ship, within seconds it had sunk beneath the waves, those swift enough to leap overboard wailing in pain as the salt water burned into their membranes, few made it to shore.

Suddenly a deep thrumming sound filled the night sky, and moments later a second thrumming joined it. On the shore the strange machines on the backs of two titanic dinosaurs aligned and a magical shield coalesced around those on the shore. A lightning bolt rent the night, its dazzling path towards one of the longboats suddenly halted by a word and contemptuous gesture from the cerulean figure. A cry of hunger and rage went up from the shore as a titanic predator bellowed its lust for blood and fury.

“Andreas!” called the mysterious figure
“Yes my lord?”
“Have the captain sail to the west a few leagues so we can disembark the cavalry and the beasts, we will engage and destroy the lizardmen at dawn”

My list (as posted above)
Qian Ge's list (the guy who whupped my lizzies with his in Aethrics journal):
Oldblood on carnosaur, sword of might, 5+ ward, enchanted shield
EOTG, maybe something else as well.
EOTG, 2+ ward
20 Saurus spears, FC
10 skink skirmishers
17 skink/2 krox cohort with FC
3 jungle swarms
4 Terradons
6 saurus cavalry with banner (probably huanchi)

He won first turn

One priest got 5 and 1
Other got 5 and 3
Mindwarper got 1,3,4,5 and 6 of the Tzeentch lore
Nurgle puppet sorceror got curse of the leper and buboes
Book sorceror got buboes, regeneration and fireball



His army (top)
Dark blue: saurus/saurus cavalry/Carnosaur
Light blue: Skinks/skink cohort
Black: Engine of the gods
Brown: Swarm bases
Green: Terradons

My army (bottom)
Red: Khorne knights/forsaken
Brown: Marauders/Marauder cavalry
Pink: Hounds
Green: dragon ogres
Light Blue: warriors with all 3 mages

The weird templates on the right represent a lake (amazing how much you see lakes now that lizards are getting popular :) )

Turn 1

Everything moved up full tilt. The terradons moved up to the left hand forest.
Magic saw him get off uranons thunderbolt on the Khorne knights, no wounds caused. Terradons shoot at the hounds and kill 1.

WOC Turn 1

Left hound chaos hounds charge terradons who flee. Forsaken charge the skinks skirmishers who flee through the saurus (panic test passed). The chaos hounds on the right move forward full tilt and stop in front of the two engines. Warriors move towards the saurus warriors and stegs. Marauders also move forward to get a charge on stegs if they charge the hounds. On the right the marauder horsemen move up to block charges from the carnosaur and saurus cavalry. Khorne knights and dragon ogres move up to ensure a charge on anything which charges the horsemen. Magic saw buboes cause 1 wound to an engine steg (one is dispelled), combined fireball and flickering fire put 0 wounds on the stegadon. Curse of the leper is dispelled but Pandemonium also goes off with irresistible force after a miscast.

Lizzie Turn 2

The mixed unit moves through the lake and shoots at the horsemen (killing one), carnosaur moves towards the table edge and saurus cavalry back up a bit. The saurus can just about charge the hounds and do so (hold since he hadn’t declared what he was going to do with the stegs yet) only 2 hounds in combat. Neither of his engines can move because they don’t have room to pivot. His terradons and skirmishers fail to rally. Magic sees 2 hounds and 2 forsaken killed by burning alignment. Uranons goes off and kills one Khorne knight. In combat (only 1 saurus can attack now) 1 more hound dies and they flee (1 hound left). One shaman then miscasts and suffers a wound. Saurus elect not to pursue and pass their test.

WOC Turn 2

Hounds continue to run but are still on the board. Marauder horsemen pass their terror test and move to block the carnosaur, dragon ogres move near the board edge and wheel so they can flank charge the carnisaur if it goes after the horsemen. Forsaken can just about charge one of the engines which leads to a double charge on both engines simultaneously. Warriors move up to get into the face of saurus whilst out of charge arc of engines. Marauders back up so they are a little more than 12” away from the stegs. Magic sees almost everything dispelled or fail to cast (never got curse of the leper off successfully after first turn) and a miscast which allows him to cast uranons on the khorne knights killing another one. In combat the forsaken get 4 attacks each (16 total) and I allocate 8 attacks against each priest- no wounds caused (damn), should have been less greedy and allocated 12 attacks against the wounded priest. His return attacks failed to kill all of the forsaken (unfortunate) so the forsaken flee and the stegadons pursue. And are within charge range of the marauders one is 9” away and more than 8” away from all of my units.

Lizzie turn 3

The saurus warriors charge the chaos warriors, the wounded stegadon charges the marauders and the other stegadon just manages to slip down to the side of the tzeentch knights so they can’t charge (bad positioning there by me, another half inch to the left and the stegadon wouldn’t have been able to fit in. Terradons and skirmishers both rally. Magic sees burning alignment kill 2 warriors, a few marauders and 3 of the Tzeentch knights, the rest of his magic is dispelled. 6 Marauders die to impact hits and quite a few more to everything else and run 3” and are run down by the engine. His saurus warriors choose spears and declare a challenge which Mindwarper accepts, saurus champ causes 1 wound but it is saved. His other attacks are allocated against the nurgle sorcerors, 4 against the one on foot, 6 against the mounted one. Between hitting on 5’s and the mounted sorcerors 2+ save no wounds are suffered. In return mindwarper killing blows the champ and kills the adjacent saurus warrior. 12 S4 attacks of the rest of my warriors and casters kills another 2 or three saurus and he loses the battle by 5, breaks and is caught by the pursuing warriors.

WOC Turn 3

Horsemen and the dragon ogres declare a charge on the kroxigor, and due to the table edge I would be able to get 2 dragon ogres into combat, marauder horsemen fail fear test and block the dragon ogres who get a failed charge as a result. Khorne knights frenzy charge the mixed unit and The knights of Khorne allocate all the riders attacks against the krox and all steed attacks against the skinks but only cause 2 wounds on the kroxigor and 3 wounds on the skinks, 2 khorne knights are killed in return by the kroxigor and the knights break and get away. The mixed unit now has a clear view of the dragon ogres flank and the saurus cav are within charge range of marauders with a definite overrun or EITW into the dragon ogres. Tzeentch knights move up to the right to get out of stegadon charge arc. Magic sees most spells failed to cast or dispelled.

Lizzies Turn 4

He double charges the dragon ogres and saurus cavalry (horsemen fled). The wounded steg turns to chase after my warriors, the other moves after the Tzeentch knights. His terradons, skirmishers and swarms move towards the centre of the field where the warriors are. Magic sees 2 more Tzeentch knights fall to burning alignment and the last Khorne knight also dies. Magic is dispelled thanks to the collar of Khorne. Shooting sees the stegadon put a wound on the last Tzeentch knight but its saved by the 4+ ward. In combat one dragon ogre dies but the dragon ogres kill two saurus cavalry. I then lose by lots, break and run off the table (saurus cavalry pursue).

WOC Turn 4

The warriors wheel right towards the lake to get the carnosaur in range. Magic sees buboes put one wound on the second engine, Flickering fire and fireball fail to do a wound and gateway on the carnasaur- 6 S11 hits, carnosaur is sucked into the warp. (forgot about eye of the gods roll).

Lizzies Turn 5

One engines move towards my warriors and the terradons drop rocks on the warriors, killing 2. Swarms move up to my warriors flank and the skirmishers move up from the rear. Magic is dispelled easily with Mr2 and 6 DD but burning alignment kills the Tzeentch standard bearer. Shooting sees a couple more warriors fall.

WOC Turn 5

Warriors reform to face the oncoming steg and in order to get rank bonus (7 warriors left). Flickering fire and fireball manage to put a wound on the steg. Buboes finally kills the shaman and a second buboes reduces the steg to 1 wound. Gateway miscasts but hit fails to wound mindwarper.

Lizzies Turn 6

Swarms and terradons rear charge the warriors, ancient stegadon charges the front. In combat 4 warriors fall to combined impact hits and attacks, in return I kill a stegadon crew member and the bloodkull amulet deals a final wound to the steg. The nurgle sorcerer puts a wound on a terradon. Combat ends as a draw but I win due to musician, terradons pass break test. I elect not to turn to face the rear charging units so I’ll have line of sight for magic next turn.

WOC Turn 6

One buboes is dispelled, the second puts another wound on the remaining engine. Infernal gateway also goes off on the engines and gets 8 S4 hits, putting a wound on the priest but failing to wound the steg (still has 3 wounds). In combat the warrior champion and another warrior is killed but a terradon dies and a couple of wounds are put on the swarms. Terradons lose by 2 and break.

End of game.
- memory is a bit hazy on some bits though ;)

He got 1530 points
I got 1388 points
- DRAW (albeit a losing one)

Rules issues: The stegadon that was killed in combat meant all remaining crew died automatically, question is whether or not their deaths count towards CR. He thought not so I let it go, but from reading the lizardmen book I can’t find anything that exempts their deaths from CR, anyone got an opinion on this? Made no real difference in the battle, but I'd like to know for the future, especially since I run lizards as well. Opinions welcome on this one.

Post Battle Blather:
Well it was a fun battle and there were a few turning points which always make for an interesting game. The forsaken failing to kill at least one priest doomed both my knight units and their subsequent failure to die gloriously allowed the engines to get in amongst my troops earlier than I planned. The marauder horsemen failing their fear test meant the carnosaur escaped a possible doom from the double charge (if he lost he would have run straight off the board). The same turn the khorne knights fluffed their attacks and thus were broken and subsequently engined to death as a result. Gateway killing the carnosaur netted me a lot of points with the S11 though and this more than made up for the later S4 gateway. Magic missiles barely dented the stegadons or priests, little buggers that they are.

I made a few errors with positioning- I didn’t think the saurus could charge the hounds but they could, I also declared hold instead of flee because I thought the stegadons would charge as well (hope being a cardinal virtue). The Tzeentch knights should have been slightly more to the left but they were positioned to be able to take part in battles on either side of the lake so it was fairly forgivable. In hindsight I should have used the knights to hold of his flank attack and the dragon ogres deployed more centrally to go after the stegadons- that’s what they are there for!

As dawn closed upon the battlefield the pox-ridden shaman gazed in shock at the sorcerers standing unfazed in the middle of the battlefield, never had he seen such magic wielded in battle, the mightiest predator of the Lustrian jungles together with Xushotl the mighty oldblood sucked screaming into the realm of Tzeentch, a stegadon felled with one blow by the opposing sorcerer. Surrounded and attacked on all sides the sorcerors had butchered their enemies easily. Panic nestled in the heart of the shaman, he turned his mighty stegadon, lungs choking on the pus from the necrotic magic of the lesser sorcerers away from the battle and led the retreat from the field leaving four figures standing arrogantly amongst the slain of both sides.


The room was ringed with the most potent warding spells and in the centre the rune of Tzeentch etched on the floor glowed red with latent potency.
“Bring him in”
Reiner marched Thorvald, dark emissary of Belakor into the room, Thorvald leading the way, strangely acquiescent.
“Ahh, Thorvald, it has cost me a great deal of resources to free you from the lizards.” Commented Mindwarper, with a nonchalant tone.
“I thank you my lord, my Master will look upon you with favour” replied Thorvald.
“Your master, you mean Belakor?” Mindwarper smiled wryly “The favour of a mere daemon means nothing compared to the blessings of Tzeentch. Why Tzeentch has used your master as a mere plaything through the ages. It was Tzeentch who laughed as your master shattered himself on the city of Mordheim to be picked over by scavengers, my master who refused Belakor the honour of Everchosen and my master who lent Teclis aid to banish Belakor and his entire daemon host. All these things you know, but I have called you hear today to offer you a bargain.”
“What bargain?” asked Thorvald sullenly.
“I offer you the chance to cast aside your petty daemon master and serve the greatest of the Chaos gods. If you swear your soul to him you will have a lasting glory and set foot on a path to victory, not one of eternal defeat”
“Very well” acquiesced Thorvald.
“Foolish one, you do not swear to me”.
Mindwarper intoned an incantation and a silence fell over the room, suddenly the rune of Tzeentch blazed with energy and a PRESENCE was suddenly in the room. The sheer overwhelmingness of the presence brought all in the room down on their knees. All present felt their minds and every thought and memory dissected an infinite number of times by an entity that saw everything, and knew everything.
“Swear” gasped Mindwarper, still bowed by the awesome presence.
“I pledge my soul to Tzeentch” cried Thorvald then screamed as the spiral rune on his forehead burned into his skull, then slowly twisted into the rune of Tzeentch.
Mindwarper smiled a crooked smile at Thorvald “now you have sworn.”
Thorvald bowed his head in reverence.

Suddenly there was a banging at the door of the chamber.
Andreas marched into the room, and turned to Mindwarper.
“You wish to tell me that four of the longships and their crew have disappeared do you not?”
“Yes Master, but…”
“They were part of a deception by Engvald, a sorcerer of the Dolgan tribe, who plans to take this isle for himself and settle an old score”
“You knew of this plan Master? Our forces have taken grevious losses here, fully a quarter of the Chosen knights will never breathe again, and amongst the warriors and norsemen the casualties are even higher, how large a force can we expect to face?”
“A large one I assume, but do not worry Andreas, we have reinforcements I did not inform you of due to arrive on tomorrow’s tide. I have bested Engvald once in the wastes when I was alone and he had 50 tribesmen behind him, here I will crush him once and for all on the field of battle.”

After this battle I hung around to watch a battle between Qian Ge's Kroak list (with two Engines) and Little Sun's WOC. Little Sun only had 2000 points so I helped him fill out the extra 250 points. He had two units of knights, 2 units of hounds, a unit of chosen (+1T), a giant and some marauders led by a Tzeentch level 4, nurgle level 2 and undivided level 2. I can't remember all the details but the giant and khorne knights managed to wipe out the temple guard (Kroak's unbreakableness meant he stayed on when any other slann would have autobroken). The other unit of knights managed to break an engine on the charge. Kroak's magic was surprisingly powerful at short range, although often foiled by the high chaos armour saves. Against most armies it would be deadly- especially the 6" version cast 3 times per phase. Kroak also managed to survive a shedload of magic after the TG died and was still alive at the end of the battle which ended as a massacre for WOC.

05-04-2009, 14:49
To follow: Mindwarper's forces take to the field against Engvald, sorceror lord of Tzeentch (led by Little Sun).

05-04-2009, 20:42
sweet fluff and a decent first outing for Mindwarper and his kin.
looking forward to more, Kerill

as for your hounds charge reaction; you wait until all charges have been declared, then declare charge reactions.

05-04-2009, 23:38
Truly great background and great to see an infernal gateway suck someone into the warp :D

06-04-2009, 08:02
Thanks guys.

@sevensins, you are absolutely right, got confused by the FAQ frenzy about changing your charge reaction.

Anyway, the second battle of the weekend for Mindwarper:

Little Sun’s list:
Level 4 sorceror of Tzeentch, golden eye, chaos steed, book of secrets, bloodskull pendant (This came up in the battle when he got in combat so we agreed to swap it out for sword of might and enchanted shield- pendant can only be taken by models on foot), bloodcurdling roar
Level 2 sorceror of Nurgle, puppet
Level 2 sorceror, power familiar, scroll

6 Knights of Nurgle, standard: rage
6 Knights of Khorne
5 Marauder horsemen, flails, not sure what else
15? Khorne marauders with shields and flails
17 Nurgle chaos warriors, FC
2 spawn
2*5 warhounds

My list was the new banner of wrath version (dropped blasted standard and a khorne marauder to get it).

I won the roll for first turn, and let him go first.
For his level 4 he rolled 1,2,4,5. And got fireball with the book.
I then pointed out that I take the spell familiar to increase the chance of getting gateway, I got everything except gateway :)
His Nurgle sorcerer got buboes and regeneration
Fire mage got conflagration of doom and fireball.

My puppet mage got cloying quagmire and buboes
Book of secrets mage got curse of the leper, buboes and fireball.

So fairly similar lists with me having forsaken and dragon ogres instead of giant and spawn and my magic items synergizing a bit better.

This was deployment:


Red- Khorne knights/forsaken/spawn
Brown- Marauders/Marauder horsemen
Green- Nurgle Knights/dragon ogres
Blue- Tzeentch knights/ his Tzeentch sorcerer lord
Pink- Chaos warriors

Engvald turn 1

He moved very cautiously with his hounds moving forward a bit and the giant moving up about 9”. Both spawn traveled down the flank through the woods at a fair clip (8 and 10 inches). Magic started with him casting flickering fire at the forsaken on 1 dice and getting 7, I let it go and 1 forsaken went down. Next he cast fireball on them, I let it go and no wounds caused. Then he cast conflagration of doom with IF on three dice on the forsaken and another one died (we rolled equal for the comparison part). The rest of his magic was dispelled.

Mindwarper turn 1

I move the dragon ogres forward and to the left slightly to threaten a charge on the giant, the Tzeentch knights also move forward to threaten the giant. I shuffle my mages a bit so both the nurgle mages could see his general and nurgle mage. Forsaken move up 8” to threaten the hounds shielding his khorne knights next turn and khorne marauders and khorne knights reposition slightly for a future countercharge on his knights. Magic him let the banner of wrath go which killed 4 marauder horsemen (passed panic). He let flickering fire go on the giant and I rolled high for strength and caused 3 wounds. Buboes put a wound on his general and one put a wound on the Khorne knights (so hounds wouldn’t have to flee if they failed a fear test when charged). I attempted to cast cloying quagmire but miscast, I used the puppet to get a 7, he used his puppet to change it to a 5 and cast curse of the leper on the dragon ogres which I dispelled with my remaining dice.

- so both first turns very cautious movement on both sides

Engvald turn 2

He moves his hounds up to block the knights and the giant moves to within 12” of the dragon ogres. The spawn both move through the forest again are about 8-9” from my troops.
Magic saw treason of Tzeentch cast on the slaanesh warriors and 2 died. An IF magic missile at the forsaken killed another 2, leaving 2. The rest of his spells were dispelled or failed to cast.

Mindwarper Turn 2

My left hand hounds charge the flank of his hounds (hold), forsaken charge his hounds (flee) and have to EITW on to his khorne knights. My chaos hounds move up to force his frenzied units to charge next turn. The dragon ogres move back 3.5” out of giant charge range. The marauder horsemen move to the other side of the forest, hoping to tempt the spawn. Magic sees buboes put another wound on his general, a scroll drawn and pandemonium goes off. Cloying quagmire on his warriors fails to kill the sorcerors but kills 3 warriors. The rest was dispelled (including banner of wrath). In combat the hounds beat his hounds, they break and escape, my hounds stop 1” in front of his giant. The forsaken fail to kill anything and thankfully get killed in return.

Engvald Turn 3

Both units of knights declare charges on the hounds and they flee leaving his units stranded midfield with one unit partially in front of the other due to the charge angle. His spawn on my left rolls 9” and hits the flank of the Tzeentch knights. The other spawn rolls 10” and hits the front of the Khorne knights. The giant moves to try and block the dragon ogre charge on the knights next turn. One unit of hounds rallies behind his lines, the other keeps running (couldn’t use general’s leadership due to pandemonium). The remaining marauder horseman moves to block the Tzeentch knights charge on the giant. Magic sees treason cast on the dragon ogres who do one wound to themselves. Fireball is cast on the hounds and 2 die (pass panic), next spell is by the nurgle mage who miscasts (double 2) and he rolls a 2 for the miscast roll. He uses puppet and changes it to 5, I roll 6 for the puppet and change it back to a 2- nurgle mage disintegrates taking 2 warriors with him. In combat the left hand spawn kills a Tzeentch knight whilst on the other flank the spawn is cut down by the frenzied knights.

Mindwarper Turn 3

My left hand hounds fail terror and flee into the trees. Khorne Knights charge his khorne knights and dragon ogres charge the giant. Other hounds rally behind my lines. Warriors and marauders move up to support the combats in case any rolls are fluffed since the warriors can handle his knights if need be. Magic is limited by what I can see, the marauder horseman gets flickering fired to death, treason on his warriors kills a couple and the only other magic of note was pandemonium going off again. In combat the giant is cut down by the dragon ogres then flops on them but only causes 2 wounds and they overrun onto his second unit of knights. My khorne knights kill 4 of his and his chaos steeds kill one of mine in return, he breaks and is caught, they pursue into his second unit of knights. My Tzeentch knights put a wound on the spawn.

- I’m a bit unclear here, his level 4 sorceror actually died due to another miscast on double 6’s (pandemonium is great), him rolling a 1 for his miscast roll (book of secrets) and got annihilated as well. Can’t remember when it happened though because his sorcerer lord did get into combat.

Engvald Turn 4

His warriors countercharge the dragon ogres but only 3 can get into combat. No magic this turn, so straight to combat. His warriors put 1 wound on the dragon ogres, killing one, my knights and dragon ogres wipe out his chaos knights. His warriors autobreak due to fear and the dragon ogres catch them. Dragon ogres pursue into the marauders and knights overrun into the marauders. His hounds panic. The spawn takes another wound.

Mindwarper turn 4

Warriors wheel to get LOS to the spawn. Otherwise no movement or magic. In combat the marauders are wiped out to a man, the khorne knights overrun into his fleeing hounds who flee again off the board. The spawn is killed by a kick to the head from a chaos steed.

He had nothing left on the board

Post battle blather:
Well that went rather well, who needs infernal gateway when you have pandemonium! The continual pressure of the buboes on his general and casters meant he was forced to let it off eventually and it made a big difference to his magic phase. Rolling 2 on the miscast table twice sucked badly for him. Otherwise his troops had slightly less breathing room to move and although his spawn almost caused an upset my warriors were on hand to handle things. The forsaken survived long enough to do exactly what I wanted to and were kind enough to actually die when they were supposed to, chasing off the hounds was key to forcing his knights to barrel forwards. Otherwise I was happy enough to exchange magic since the Mr2 on my warriors kept my mages safe from buboes and any other spells cast on them. Once the giant had suffered a few wounds I knew the dragon ogres could take it down without any problem (they average 5 wounds on a giant) and they can do a bit of damage against knights as well although they will get butchered by frenzied chaos ones if they roll poorly. In the later turns though the dice were against him.

Reiner walked up to the crest of the hill to join Mindwarper and his other lieutenants.
“A mighty victory my lord”
Mindwarper gazed up at the, for once, blue skies of Albion and smiled, “Indeed Reiner, most satisfying, watching Engvald being sucked into the warp is a memory I will replay many times! But that I can do at my leisure, it is time to implement the next phase of my plan. We will build a fortress and a port here on the Isle of Wights, I have created a magical beacon to allow captains with an amulet of my fashioning to be able to navigate through the magical mists of Albion easily to find this port, I will dispatch emissaries to the Norse and marauder chiefs, should they wish to use the port we will require of them a tithe of gold, slaves and warriors, I am sure many will agree to the bargain- a safe port ideally located to raid the coasts of the Empire, Bretonnia and Estalia, and protected from pursuit by the mists of Albion will be of great use to them.”
“A plan of great perspicacity my lord, but why build a fortress, it will require a great deal of resources and years to build, surely a port alone is sufficient for this task”
“Indeed, but I believe it will be of great use in the future. Not only will it allow us to hold this isle more easily against further attacks from the lizardmen or from any northern tribes foolish enough to ignore the lesson of Engvald’s attack, but also here I can assemble a force much larger than I can in the heart of the empire, where suspicions will arise if my forces there become too large- that is not a risk I am willing to take.”
“Your will master. Will you oversee the building yourself my lord?”
“No Reiner, I must return to Altdorf and oversee my schemes there. The honour of managing the Isle of Wights falls to you Reiner, although I will send Franz to assist- I know well the rivalry between you two, but his studies at the Universoty of Altdorf will help with the building. Thorvald?”
“Yes master?”
“ I want you to use your skills to bind the creatures of the swamp and moor to your will and raise the beasts from the depths of the marshes for the defence of this bastion”
“Your will, my lord” said Thorvald, inclining his head in deference.
“Reiner, I can only spare a small garrison initially, warriors, norsemen and some of the forsaken ones. I will also send you one of the three larger beasts we have gathered, it has proven possessed of a cunning and vicious streak, and will fit well with the monstrous horde that Thorvald will assemble. In time I will be able to spare more men for this outpost, and the tithes from the north will provide you with slaves and more norse mercenaries. With the ships we have, and those captured from the lizards you can launch slave raids of your own. Once the fortress is begun I will send cannons and Hung archers for the defence of the walls, in time it will be near impregnable.”
“Will you be treating with the dark ones my lord?”
“The Druchii? It is a worthy thought Reiner, although they are not a race to trust lightly. I will contact them and gauge the situation. For now I must return to the lands of the Empire.” He turned his burning gaze from the blue sky to the eyes of Reiner and Thorvald, “Do NOT fail me here”.

Hopefully the outpost on the isle of wights will also allow my WOC to fight lizards, WOC and dark elves without the fluff getting a bit silly. For those who've not seen a map of Albion, the Isle of Wights does actually exist in GW background:


I've also decided to take this opportunity to write another list, which plays a bit differently to the standard list. It's not hard core tailored (a level 4 Tzeentch would be much better than the two level 2's but I want to keep Mindwarper noticeably more powerful than the other characters). Both are level 2 to explain their rivalry but Reiner is a slightly more powerful caster, hence his status as the master's main apprentice.

Reiner, level 2 sorceror of tzeentch, spell familiar, book of secrets, conjoined homunculus, barded steed 216
Franz, level sorcerer of Tzeentch, golden eye, warrior familiar, disk, bloodcurdling roar 225
Thorvald the apostate (dark emissary) 265
The Reikvald beast (Throgg) 175
Characters: 881

3 Trolls 135
3 Trolls 135
3 Trolls 135

12 Warriors of Slaanesh, shields, Champ, standard: warbanner 251
17 Khorne Marauders, GW, musician 119

Core: 775

3 Dragon Ogres, GW 231
6 Forsaken 108

Special: 339

Fenbeast 85
Fenbeast 85
Fenbeast 85

Rare: 255

2250 points
Power Dice: 11
Dispel Dice: 6
Models: 57 (but hopefully enough wounds :) )

Hopefully this list will feel different enough from the usual chaos lists. Magic is less powerful but fog of death is my favourite spell in the game. Fenbeasts to hold the enemy in place and monsters to charge in and finish them off with plenty of magic beforehand.

06-04-2009, 11:08
Thanks for another good br, didn't he use puppet to modify the miscast result :)?

06-04-2009, 12:19
He did, both times and I modified it back again with mine ;)

14-04-2009, 11:17
Had another game against Qian Ge today, this time against his fighty vampire counts.

Mindwarper watched as the last of the stone was unshipped from the longboats, there was enough stone now to begin the foundations and it was time to embark the troops for the return to Altdorf.
“Reiner, I trust you are clear on the plans for the fortress?”
“Yes master, everything will go according to your specifications”
“Excellent, then it is…do you feel that Reiner?”
Mindwarper turned his mage sight to the North where he could feel a tugging on the winds of magic, a mixture of pure dark magic and the wind of Shyish
“Necromancy master?” Asked Reiner
“Indeed, it seems one more battle must be fought before I can leave this isle”
“Should we not, perhaps, consider an alliance my lord?
“No Reiner, the living dead are an abomination in the eyes of our master- mindless husks that remain forever unchanging, the only response to them is destruction, start the preparations Reiner, I will deal with this threat”
“Yes my lord”.

His list (roughly)

Vampire lord, zombie dragon, dread lance, crown of the damned, infinite hatred, red fury, avatar of death
Vampire, ghoulkin, level 2, steed, scroll, maybe something else
Wight king, barded steed, lance, bsb, maybe something else

Corpse cart, balefire
15-20 Ghouls, ghast
15-20 Ghouls, ghast
25 zombies, standard

4 fell bats
6 Black knights, standard:strigos
(he miscalculated during deployment though and only fielded 5 which was to prove quite important).

Black Coach

My list remained unchanged.



Vampire lord and vampire – red
Varghulf- white
Zombies- Brown
Ghouls- green
Fell Bats- Purple
Coach- Blue
Black Knights- black

Marauders and marauder horsemen- Brown
Forsaken and Khorne knights- red
Dragon Ogres- green
Tzeentch knights- blue
Chaos Warriors- light blue
Hounds- pink

Basic plan was to blast away at the dragon with magic, sacrifice a unit of knights or (ideally) the forsaken to allow me to get a charge in on it with the dragon ogres or second unit of knights. Whatever combat troops survived I felt my hammers could handle.

VC Turn 1

He marches all his stuff up about 8-10 inches (his knights are too far away from any vampires to march) and his dragon flies over to my left flank. Magic fails to cast or is dispelled.

Mindwarper Turn 1

I move the right hand hounds up to march block his black knights (and those hounds did nothing for the rest of the battle). The forsaken move bravely up 12 inches with the hounds in front and to the left to prevent it charging the forsaken. Right hand knights move up slightly. Khorne Knights move forward a few inches and offer up their flank to the zombie dragon, dragon ogres position for a countercharge as do the warriors who turn to face the dragon so I can use my magic. Banner of wrath does no damage to his corpse cart, one buboes fails to cast (due to balefire), second buboes puts a wound on the dragon. Throw 2 dice at transmogrification on the varghulf but miscast and magic phase ends.

VC Turn 2

His varghulf charges the hounds (flee), redirects to the khorne knights and zombie dragon also double charge the khorne knights, fell bats move up on the right and black knights with wight lord move up another 7” as does the coach. His infantry moves forward with the zombies facing the forsaken, ghouls with a flank charge on the forsaken if they went after the zombies. Magic sees the wound on the dragon healed back up and wind of death go off killing a knight or two, a warrior and some other stuff producing 2 spirit bases next to my fleeing hounds. In combat the dragon rips through 4 of the knights. The last knight puts a wound on the varghulf but it is regenerated. Knights break and flee. The varghulf rolls an 11 and hits the warriors. The lord rolls lower and is left in front of the dragon ogres as I planned although there is a potential fly in the ointment since the hounds have fled to in front of the dragon ogres and may block their charge if they rally.

Mindwarper Turn 2

The forsaken charge the zombies, dragon ogres declare a charge on the dragon in the hope that the hounds keep running. The marauder horsemen charge the fellbats (pass fear test on general’s leadership). The hounds rally (bugger) and care hemmed in by the spirit hosts. After due consideration and shenanigans I reform them two wide facing the spirit hosts (the only way I could get the dragon ogre charge in and it caused a bit of discussion). My glorious magic phase saw another buboes wound on the dragon and then another miscast and the phase ended. In combat the forsaken rend through zombie flesh and at the end of the phase he only has 4 left. The marauder horsemen do likewise to the fell bats (losing one in return) and overrun into the flank of the black coach with their flank kindly displayed for the black knights to charge. The varghulf kills the mage with the puppet and takes 2 wounds in return (regenerated both) it then loses combat by 3 and passes two of the regeneration tests. The dragon ogres swing their might weapons 9 times- not a single hit. They take 5/6 wounds in return, break and flee 12” stopping 1” short of the board edge. The dragon doesn’t catch them (rolled a 5).

VC Turn 3

The black knights charge the flank of my horsemen, ghouls flank charge the forsaken. Spirit host charges the hounds who hold. The vampire decides not to chase the dragon ogres off the board and moves to the flank of the warrior unit. His magic does almost nothing this turn except get off the bound spell of the cart (I was waiting for the book but it never appeared). In combat the varghulf was finally put down. The black knights butchered the marauder horsemen and overran about 10” stopping about 4” in front of my waiting Tzeentch knights. The spirit bases beat the hounds and they run (still two left) into the forest. Spirit host failed it’s Ld test and had to pursue. The ghouls fail to kill any forsaken but the forsaken only roll 1 on a D3. They then fail to kill the remaining zombies (1 left, standard bearer) and as a result he wins by one (the damn zombie standard bearer). Forsaken break and are run down by the ghouls.

Mindwarper Turn 3

Tzeentch knights charge the black knights. Dragon ogres rally. Hounds fail to rally and keep on running. Warriors reform to face the dragon (towards my table edge) and so they are only 5 wide so he will be forced into b-t-b with both champ and Mindwarper. Magic sees a combination of buboes and infernal gateway put a wound on the lord and 2 more wounds on the dragon leaving it with 2. In combat the knights beat his convincingly and they all crumble (although had he fielded the extra knight the bsb would have been left on 1 wound) and I overran into the black coach.

VC Turn 4

His dragon lord charges the warriors. His other units shuffle about with one ghoul unit and attendant vamp moving to get a charge on the knights and the zombie standard bearer makes use of his new found skirmisher status to move into the forest. Magic sees him try to heal the dragon (I dispelled) and then went for glory and wind of death but failed to cast it. In combat the champion steps up to challenge and gets beaten into a bloody pulp (would be +10 overkill if there wasn’t a cap). Mindwarper then unleashes his sneaky amulet and puts a wound on the dragon . I win combat by one (musician) and his dragon crumbles to dust. The Knights put three wounds on the coach which evaporates and they overrun out of harms way (14”, way out of the main battle area) happy with their captured standards.

Mindwarper Turn 4

Dragon ogres rear charge the vampire lord. Marauders charge the flank of the vampireless ghoul regiment. Forgot to rally the fleeing hounds, Tzeentch knights turn to face the main battle but hang well back- no use risking those VPs at this stage. Magic saw little of use happen (gatewat is scrolled). In combat mindwarper challenged the vampire lord who struck four mighty blows but couldn’t get through the 1+ armour save. He took a S8 blow to the head in return and vaporized due to static CR (lost by 6). Elsewhere the marauders lost 1 man (due to the corpse cart giving them ASF) then chopped up a few ghouls leaving about 7 after CR. Lots of stuff then dies at the end of the phase due to the collapse of the general.

VC Turn 5
- game is called at this point

Massacre for the forces of Chaos

Mindwarper wiped the purescent dragon’s blood from his sword and gazed down at the dessicated remains of the vampire lord at his feet. He had never seen a warrior so terrifyingly powerful in combat, thankfully the foolish pride of the blood dragon order had forced him to accept the challenge of one of his lesser lieutenants giving Mindwarper the time to cut down the dragon. The dragon itself, whilst a mighty beast, paled in comparison to the dragons of the chaos wastes. Once his affairs in the Empire were once again put in order perhaps he would seek out one of the beasts and tame it, whilst he could not keep the beast at any of his Imperial holdings, it could be kept here on the Island and would prove an ample defence against any assault by sea. Certainly worth consideration.

He gazed over the battlefield, the summoned dead crumbling back to true death. The remaining vampire was attempting to flee the battlefield but would soon be run down by the Tzeentch Knights on their giant avian steeds. It had been a successful battle, but it seemed he had gained nothing from it beyond the death of his own men. Perhaps necessary but ultimately a waste of time. Suddenly pain flared with screaming intensity through every nerve in his body and a voice echoed in the vaults of his mind carrying a thousand nuances of meaning and tone
“Do you think such is for you to decide, favoured one?”

Well the warriors and bloodskull pendant sorceror worked out well again, the pendant being able to do just enough damage to ensure the warriors win even against big nasties like dragons. Thankfully gateway and buboes put enough damage on the dragon for me to take it down in combat.

Forsaken died again, but tied up his second vamp and ghoul unit preventing them joining in the attack on the warriors which was fairly crucial.

The dragon ogre charge was a bit of a let down but they came back to the fight and the extra +2CR for the rear charge meant the vampire lord didn't have much hope of passing enough ward saves to survive.

Sorry about the short fluff this time, but I bought Wolverine on DVD and want to watch it ;)

01-05-2009, 18:37
Mindwarper stood frowning at the stern of the vessel, using his mage sight to gaze at the far distant ships that were gaining on them. They would be fortunate to have time to land in the wastelands before the lizards would catch them. It seemed another battle was inevitable before they could return to the empire.
"Have the men prepare for the battle, prepare to release he beasts from the holds as soon as we can, the foe will not be far behind us.
"I will see to it immediately master"

This battle was over a week ago so my memory is a bit fuzzy, but I thought I'd update the reports anyway. Won't be any more for a couple of weeks since I'm back home in the UK at the minute.Game was again against Qian Ge.

Qian Ge’s list:

Slann, extra PD, becalming rumination, plaque of Tepoc, bane head, scroll, plaque of dominion
Scar Vet, burning blade, light armour, cold one, shield
Priest on EOTG

17 Skink,2 Krox cohort with FC
10 skink skirmishers
11 skink cohort, musician
11 skink cohort, musician

6 Saurus Cavalry, full command: Banner of Huanchi
22 Temple guard, champion, standard: war banner
4 Terradons

My list:
As before, but dropped a chaos warrior to mount the second nurgle mage.

He won the roll for first turn.

No map I'm afraid, deployment for me was (from left to right) hounds, forsaken, hounds, horsemen, knights, dragon ogres, knights with infantry behind.

His was mixed cohort, skink skirmishers, temple guard, saurus cavalry, cohort, cohort terradons.


Saurus cavalry passed stupidity everything moved up full tilt. Magic dropped one Khorne knight and comet of casandora cast near my horsemen, hounds and forsaken.


Comet doesn’t come down. Marauder horsemen charged the EOTG (passed terror), khorne knights frenzy charge his skinks (flee) and panic the saurus cavalry. Second hounds which were poised to redirect his cavalry into the warriors instead moved up to redirect his engine if it won the horsemen combat. Forsaken moved into position to countercharge the skink/krox cohort. Knights on the right move cautiously to countercharge anything that breaks through. Dragon ogres move back 2” to charge the engine.
his saurus cavalry panicking really put a hole in my battle plan, I really wanted to take them on early so I could get in against the temple guard with my warriors early enough to grind them down-
Magic saw a 4+ regeneration save on the marauder horsemen and miscast pandemonium but rolled a 12 on the miscast table and decided to stick with it. The marauder horsemen managed to kill the skink priest on the engine (hooray, comet cancelled), lost a horseman in return, won due to musician but steggie held.


Saurus cavalry rally. Terradons fly over the Tzeentch knights and kill one with rocks. Skink cohort rallies as well. Other two units of skinks move up to shoot at the knights. Magic sees the Khorne knights wiped out (double 1 to dispel). Slann miscasts and I put curse of the leper on his stegadon (which he then dispelled with his remaining dice.). Shooting sees 12 javelins kill several Tzeentch knights (hmmm). Thrown javelins from the skink/krox cohort kill 4 hounds who panic and flee.


Chaos warriors go stupid because of his banner. The forsaken charge the mixed cohort. The Tzeentch knights turn to face the terradons. Banner of wrath only puts 1 wound on the terradon pandemonium remains in play.
The forsaken kill the skink champion and 7 skinks but in return the kroxigor kill 4 of the forsaken and they break and flee (1 left so they can’t rally). The marauder horsemen also flee and the stegadon pursues into the unit of hounds (there is only one hound at this point).


Saurus cavalry move up, as does the mixed cohort although the temple guard advance only move forward 1". Magic does little but see pandemonium dispelled (he miscasts again but to little effect). The stegadon kills the hound on the charge and overruns.


The dragon ogres charge the stegadon, sadly the marauders can charge it too and have to due to frenzy (so only one dragon ogre can attack). The Tzeentch knighs charge the terradons. Marauder horsemen rally and move to redirect the mixed cohort away from the marauders. Warriors move up a bit to allow saurus cavalry to charge them but not temple guard. Magic sees the saurus cavalry champion buboed. In combat only 1 wound on the stegadon although I win combat. The Tzeentch knights kill a terradon and run them down.


Saurus cavalry charge the chaos warriors. The mixed cohort charge the marauder horsemen who flee but get run down. Magic sees another Tzeentch knight die (leaving 1). In combat the stegadon puts a wound on a dragon ogre and kills a couple of marauders, only cause 1 wound to the stegadon. I challenge the scar vet who kills the champion twice over. 1 wound is put on my general as well. In return the scar vet and two other knights take a S8 hit with only the scar vet saving the wound. another saurus is put down by the rest of the warrior attacks. Saurus cavalry lose but hold. Stegadon is finally slain.


Dragon ogres move forward out of the LOS of the temple guard, marauders reform to face the mixed cohort. Magic sees the temple guard champion die to buboes and 4+ regen on the warriors. In combat the scar vet is challenged by the book of secrets sorceror who is killed (burning blade) but the last saurus cavalry is killed and bloodskull pendant sticks a wound in th scar vet who loses by 4 but holds again.


Mixed cohort charges the marauders, small skink cohort charges the flank of the warriors. Temple guard move back 2" so the slann can see the dragon ogres. Magic sees a dragon ogre die leaving two. In combat my general challenges the scar vet and kills him with the pendant. The skinks on the flank fail to kill anything and 2 die in return. Then need a 3 to pass their break test and get- a 3. Mixed cohort destroys the marauders.


Chaos Knight charge the unengaged skink cohort. Magic sees little of use again since my casters were still in c-c. In combat the warriors killed 2 more skinks and they needed double1 ro hold- they got double 1. The chaos knight breaks and runs down the other skink cohort.


Temple guard back up again and I fail to dispel the slann's magic so another dragon ogre is killed meaning they can't contest a table quarter. The skinks finally break against the chaos warriors.


Couple of spells fail but manage to whittle the mixed cohort to half strength with magic missiles. Chaos warriors are too far from everything else. I have the warriors left almost untouched (with a captured standard), 1 dragon ogre and the tzeentch knight standard bearer. He had the temple guard and just under half the mixed cohort and skink skirmishers. We added up the points, he was ahead by 299 points- draw (just about :) )

Well another close game against the lizards (and another losing draw), not a lot I would change this battle. Forsaken did poorly, tzeentch knights died far too easily to a few javelins but at the same time knocking out the engine priest early was nice. Strangely the worst thing was his saurus cavalry panicking early on, I really wanted them against my knights earlier so I could grind down his temple guard and then flank with the knights but there you go.

Forsaken were set up perfectly but couldn't quite manage to do anything again, will keep them in for a while but a rhinox or bull rhinox is looking more and more attractive. Once again the chaos warriors made the difference between a win and a loss, very pleased with that unit.

Mindwarper gazed around at the carnage of the battlefield and at the toad and its bodyguard retreating to the other side of the field. The loss of almost all the cavalry wouldgreatl slow their passage of the wastelands and back to the Empire. It seemed the Slann had decided that was enough. One again mindwarper and his elite giards had survived an assault from all sides and come out the victors, that at least was pleasing. This was his second battle against the forces of the lizards and both times had been fought to a bloody stalemate, he would need to find a way to gain the advantage for the next battle to ensure a crushing victory.

01-05-2009, 20:59
The banner that makes your mages stupid is annoying eh :)

I really don't like those lists that are based around one super temple guard unit and I was hoping you would smash it... Oh well, there is always next time ;)

Great report (even without the maps)

03-05-2009, 15:36
Enjoying the reports so far, nice little fluff nuggets and an interesting list. Will await more carnage.

- Salvage

04-05-2009, 19:13
The banner that makes your mages stupid is annoying eh :)

I really don't like those lists that are based around one super temple guard unit and I was hoping you would smash it... Oh well, there is always next time ;)

Great report (even without the maps)

Cheers, that banner is indeed annoying, thankfully all mine are in one unit. Spread out it could paralyse an army. Will get the temple guard next time :)

@Boss_Salvage- cheers mate, will be a few weeks break I'm afraid before the next one :)

31-05-2009, 23:52
Two battles today, first WOC versus Lizards, second was a mega battle.
I’ll add fluff tomorrow.

First Game

My list:

Mindwarper, level 4 sorceror of Tzeentch, spell familiar, armour of change (enchanted shield and collar of Khorne), bloodskull amulet. (general) 390
Wrackspew, level 2 sorceror of Nurgle, forbidden puppet 175
Quakegrim, level 2 sorceror of Nurgle, power familiar, book of secrets, barded steed, 206
- magic heavy being the order of the day, level 4 quite a multitasker as well.


17 Norse marauders, GW (Khorne marauders), musician 119
5 Mounted marauders, flail, musician, l armour, throwing spears 91
7 Mounted marauders, flails, l armour, mark of Khorne 134
3*5 warhounds 90
13 Chosen guard, FC, shields, warbanner (slaanesh warriors) 289


6 Knights of Tzeentch, standard: blasted 315

6 Knights of fury (Khorne marked) 230

Bull Rhinox, heavy armour

Pre battle plan:

I was able to out-deploy due to my greater number of units. He split the engines so I decided to cunningly delay one with warhounds and the smaller unit of horsemen whilst. I put the frenzied marauder horsemen opposite his mixed cohort since they could statistically beat them in combat and get me an early standard and clear the way to his temple guard and engine for the warriors. Khorne knights were to either backup the assault on the mixed cohort or threaten the engine on the left. They were also far enough away from the slann for them to not need to worry about lore of metal death too early. Marauders on foot would do little as usual but maybe get in later for a charge on the temple guard. Uber warrior unit would try to whittle down the engine with magic and then absorb a charge, finsh the steg then kill the temple guard. Tzeentch knights were there for the temple guard and to magic missile terradons. I expected them to die early though since they were sitting in front of the slann and would take a few metal spells/uranons to the head soon enough. Rhinox would support the infantry and suicide into the engine if need be to get the priest.
Qian Ge’s list:

Slann, bsb, warbanner, scroll, +1Pd, plaque of tepoc maybe other stuff
EOTG, wardrums
EOTG, 2+ ward against first wound

10 skirmishing skinks
10 skirmishing skinks
2 Krox, 17 skink cohort, FC

20-24 Temple guard, champ, standard: jaguar
4 Terradons


I get everything except gateway for my sorcerer lord (again :( ). Nurgle sorcerer get buboes*2, curse of the leper, quagmire.
His slann got everything except commandment. One Engine priest got comet and uranons, the other got comet and portent of far.
Post spell selection I had a sinking feeling that magic would not go my way.


http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn49/Kerill_album/th_latestbattle-1.jpg (http://s301.photobucket.com/albums/nn49/Kerill_album/?action=view&current=latestbattle-1.jpg)

Light blue- skinks
Black- engine of the gods
Dark blue- temple guard with slann
Green- terradons
Red- Razordon

Dark blue: Tzeentch knights
Light blue: Warriors with sorcerors
Red: Khorne Knights
Purple: Khorne Horsemen
Brown: Horsemen/marauder infantry
Pink: Hounds
Grey: Rhinox


He moves up fairly aggressively with everything. Magic sees a Tzeentch knight die to ROBI then three more to spirit of the forge. Uranons kills a Khorne knight, everything else is dispelled or fails to cast.


The left hand horsemen charge his blowpipes (stand and shoot kills two), khorne horsemen carge the mixed cohort but two die to stand and shoot (first time I tried light armour and it failed me ;) ) Warriors moved up a bit, bull rhinox moved up as well. Tzeentch knights shimmy to the right so the standard bearer can see the terradons in the woods. Magic sees everything dispelled except pandemonium and a magic missile on the engine (does nothing). Might have put a wound on a the right hand engine with buboes as well. In combat the left hand horsemen butcher the skinks who flee and are run down by a re-rolled pursuit roll (first time that’s been useful). The khorne horsemen put 5 wounds on the krox but their horses only manage to kill 1 skink. The kroxigor and skinks do 4 or 5 wounds in return (and either wiped them out or ran them down, think they wiped them out).


His stuff moves up further. The right hand engine turns out to have the war drums so my attempt to march block it fails. It’s amazing how far the damn things can move when they pivot, must have moved 14/15” (legally mind you) entirely around the forest to flank my khorne knights (did not expect that at all). In magic the engine kills 3 khorne knights, the other engine kills my warhounds which panics the bull rhinox which manages to flee entirely off the board (never got to use the bugger in his first battle :( ) Good news was the left hand engine miscasting and I puppeted it to 2 killing the mage, all the crew and putting a wound on the beastie which then passed its monster reaction test. His terradons rocked my knights to no avail.


Bit of a problem, my Khorn knights couldn’t march and the horsemen had pursued so well the second time that they couldn’t get back to redirect the engine. The khorne knights therefore turned to face imminent doom. The horsemen moved far infield to get a rear charge on the mixed cohort. The Tzeentch knights turned to face the terradons. The warriors move up to invite a charge from the engine and cohort. Magic saw very little happen, might have put another wound on an engine and killed a crew member. Miscast somewhere as well. Pandemonium is dispelled.


Engine and mixed cohort charge the warriors, other steg charges the khorne knights. Magic sees little of effect since the warriors have MR2 against his spells. 1 warrior dies to the burning alignment. In combat he rolls 6 impact hits and kills 4 warriors. Krox fails to hurt my general (1+ save ftw), nurgle sorcerer is attacked by his steg which causes 1 wound but is saved. In return the sorcerer puts a wound on the priest. Amulet kills 2 skinks and finishes off the last krox, and might have wounded the stegadon as well. Unit champ and other sorcerer kills a few more skinks. I win combat by 1 but everything holds due to the slann nearby.


Marauder horsemen charge the rear of the cohort. Tzeentch knights charge his terradons which flee. Magic sees nothing of note again (might have miscast again or failed to cast most things). In combat I win by lots and stick another wound on the steg. Steg doesn’t run but cohort does and the horsemen run it down and take the standard (they then spent the rest of the game running from his razordon and ended up in the far left corner trembling). Everything else smacks the steg to no avail (although the priest died at some point)


He had a depleted 7 blowpipe skink unit which charged the flank of my tzeentch knights. The engine with the dead priest moved to position itself for a rear charge on my warriors. Magic did little again due to being in combat and MR2. Amulet put another wound on the steg but my lord took a wound. Other 9 S4 attacks fail to wound the steg again. Steg refuses to break due to stubborn Ld6. The little skinks fail to pentrate the knights armour but the 3 return attacks fail to hit a single skink meaning I lose combat by 1. Knights then fail break test, giving standard to the blowpipe skinks and fleeing off the board (oh the shame of it)


Nothing left except the warriors now (marauders had been blowpiped and razordoned to death previously) and the 3 marauder horsemen fleeing to the corner with their captured banner and a quarter to capture. Another 9 S4 attacks does nothing to the steg, but its down to 1 wound now from the bloodskull amulet. Again it refuses to break and let me pursue into the temple guard.


The other stegadon rear charges my warriors and the temple guard charge the front. Magic does nothing. In combat several more warriors die. His temple guard go for halberds and kill a warrior. The bloodskull amulet can now hit both stegadons since I only have 1 and a bit ranks remaining which kills the front one and puts a wound on the rear one. I lose combat by loads and need double 1’s- which I get! Combined steggie action put another wound on my lord though.


In the next turn I put another wound on the rear charging steg with the bloodskull amulet and kill a few temple guard. Eventually my lord is stegged to death though, but the chaos warriors and nurgle sorcerors cut a swathe through his temple guard, and managed to win most combat rounds. At the end of the game his temple guard were down to just their champion and the slann was on 1 wound. I had the warrior standard bearer and 1 normal warrior left and both nurgle sorcerors plugging away.


End game result: Minor Loss

31-05-2009, 23:53
2nd game

This game was a 2v2 affair but I was commanding two armies, the WOC list I’d just used and first tryout for my new VC army.

It was too big a battle for me to remember all the details but miscasts were aplenty (especially on both sides) the wraiths kept his dragon lord running away for half the game and my fellbat unit got to 10 bases at one point. Combo charged a single Khorne knight with 7 frenzied marauder horsemen and 6 Tzeentch knights, lost the combat and both units were run down. Black knights were tied up by a spawn until the 6th turn.

Early game I moved forward aggressively but their forced held back, it was only very late game that the moved forward and by that time my units had been held back for so long (by the huge fellbat unit) that I decided not to bother with combat. Almost all the opposing chaos forces were wiped out except for the dragon lord and a unit of horsemen and I’d lost just over half of my chaos units and two units of fellbats (VC units were full strength and skellie units had all been boosted significantly) The bull rhinox had wiped out some skinks and then sat EXACTLY on the table edge for the last two turns absorbing punishment (didn’t have room to wheel and forgot to reform it), ended the game on 1 wound. I’d got the best of magic and by the end of the game was ahead by 560 points- a draw.

Game took ages (5 or six hours). I was really impressed with the banshee, wiped out a unit of khorne knights over two turns and a spawn later on. Got reduced in wounds a lot but the corpse cart with lodestone allowed me to put them back on and the unit was full strength at the end of the game. Had some trouble with the ranges of VC spells since it was their first try out but was happy enough with that, hopefully next game they will see some real combat. Last turn they managed to gateway a unit of skeletons with my vamp lord and vamp rolled 3 S10 hits (almost, but not quite enough :) )

Here’s my VC list (feel free to comment). Decided to go magic heavy without going for maximum spam to keep it interesting and took the helm but not the hasslehoff banner. Using skeltons because I have more of them and because I think they look better with a VC army than ghouls (although ghouls are definitely better I know):

Vampire lord, lvl 3, MOTBA, Forbidden lore,, lord of the dead, book of arkhan, helm of commandment 420 points (and embarrassingly defenceless)
Vampire, dark acolyte, summon creatures of the knight, sword of might, periapt, flayed hauberk.
Wight king, bsb, sword of kings, gem of blood
Necromancer, power stone, 2 spells, corpse cart:lodestone

13 Skellies, FC: war banner
15 skellies, spears, FC: banner of undead legion. (Because Ws7 spears might do something eventually!)
10 skellies, FC (lord’s bunker)

19 Grave guard, great weapons, full command: banner of the barrows
6 Black Knights, naked (just to threaten flanks and whatnot)
3 fellbats
3 fellbats

4 wraiths+banshee
- quite impressed with this unit, have to say.

2250 points exactly. 10PD, 6 DD.

07-06-2009, 22:59
Really enjoyed reading this, love your background and it really adds a lot to the thread. I'm now tempted to start a magic heavy WoC force myself...

10-06-2009, 18:19
Mindwarper, level 4 sorceror of Tzeentch, spell familiar, armour of change (enchanted shield and collar of Khorne), bloodskull amulet. (general) 390

That's a really solid sorcerer lord build! Of course lacks the movement of a discer, but is way cooler and killier. Also props to your opponent on the engine builds, those are probably my favorites - drums to keep 1 moving, 2+ ward to keep 1 alive after lucky bolter / cannon shots.

Did you remember to roll on the EotG (Eye not Engine :wtf:) when your s.lord dropped the steg?

But thanks for the report!

- Salvage

12-06-2009, 13:37
Really enjoyed reading this, love your background and it really adds a lot to the thread. I'm now tempted to start a magic heavy WoC force myself...

Glad to hear it, don't forget to post the battle reports. Fluff is a bit behind though so need to catch up on that, will be getting in some more lizardmen games in this week (am determined to get a win :) )

@Boss_Salvage, I like the build too :) I miss the old Tzeentch warrior mages but post FAQ the amulet popped up as a wonderful opportunity to bring them back (and handily helps the warriors against stuff that can roll over them like heavy cav).

And I've not remembered to roll on the EOTG table once :mad: despite killing 3 or 4 stegadons and a carnisaur. must remember next time

Anyway I've decided to change my list a bit to take into account the lizard menace and to test a unit I've been unimpressed with in theory for a long time- the hellcannon. Was unimpressed with the 6" movement rate but fiddling about with a chariot base made me realise they can get 11" move first turn which goes a long way to making up for that weakness and hopefully gives the flexibility of being able to have them as a monster or as a war machine. It will also allow me to take less knights (since everyone is taking all-knight lists I feel obliged to try the other way). Against lizards they should be really useful although I've not had to guess artillery ranges in a long time :)
Still I'm trying to try different things so far:
Forsaken: Not as bad as people think, really, as long as your main goal with them is to mess with your opponents head.
Spawnox (Bull Rhinox): Not bad either, cheap but not ITP ;)
So now its the hellcannons. I made a couple last week (not ecstatic with their quality, but its not bad either and at least they look unique), we'll see how they go for a couple of games.

So revised list
Mindwarper, level 4 sorceror of Tzeentch, spell familiar, armour of change (enchanted shield and collar of Khorne), bloodskull amulet. (general) 390
Wrackspew, level 2 sorceror of Nurgle, forbidden puppet, steed 191
Quakegrim, level 2 sorceror of Nurgle, power familiar, scroll, barded steed, 206


12 Norse marauders, GW 90
5 Mounted marauders, flail, 75
3*5 warhounds 90 (added a third unit for use in deployment phase)
13 Chosen guard, FC, shields, warbanner (slaanesh warriors) 289
11 Chaos warriors, halberds, shields, FC: banner of rage 252
- Knights may be better but with hellcannons to "stick" the enemy this unit should hold up well enough. I can also switch the mages about between the 2 warrior units to counter threats (in theory :) ) This unit is yet to be tested though, we'll see how it goes.


6 Knights of fury (Khorne marked) 270


Hellcannon 205
Hellcannon 205
- usage will depend on opposing list. Plan to put them central to tie up the middle of the table or on either side of the two warrior blocks to pin things in place. Against some armies they will be more for shooting support.

Was playing with the idea of a bsb with rapturous standard for a while, which I think could work well but then I'd have almost 1000 points in characters which is a bit too much.

PD 11 (so one less PD and one less bound spell so its a bit less magic heavy, but that's fine since I don't want a gunline)
DD: 6 +1 scroll (been missing the scroll against lizzies)

12-06-2009, 15:40
Good luck with the new list :)

Volker the Mad Fiddler
14-06-2009, 17:28
Lizzie turn 3

The saurus warriors charge the chaos warriors, the wounded stegadon charges the marauders and the other stegadon just manages to slip down to the side of the tzeentch knights so they can’t charge (bad positioning there by me, another half inch to the left and the stegadon wouldn’t have been able to fit in. Terradons and skirmishers both rally. Magic sees burning alignment kill 2 warriors, a few marauders and 3 of the Tzeentch knights, the rest of his magic is dispelled. 6 Marauders die to impact hits and quite a few more to everything else and run 3” and are run down by the engine. His saurus warriors choose spears and declare a challenge which Mindwarper accepts, saurus champ causes 1 wound but it is saved. His other attacks are allocated against the nurgle sorcerors, 4 against the one on foot, 6 against the mounted one. Between hitting on 5’s and the mounted sorcerors 2+ save no wounds are suffered. In return mindwarper killing blows the champ and kills the adjacent saurus warrior. SNIP

Perhaps my understanding of the Amulet is wrong, but you only do hits on models in BtB [not your normal number of attacks] so you will generally be getting 2 hits [since very few charges are straight up] and in a challenge will only get one from the Amulet since you cannot attack anyone but the challenger [and the amulet is still an attack].

16-06-2009, 00:46
He did, both times and I modified it back again with mine ;)

lol, thats too funny--great fluff, great batreps!

19-06-2009, 12:58
Perhaps my understanding of the Amulet is wrong, but you only do hits on models in BtB [not your normal number of attacks] so you will generally be getting 2 hits [since very few charges are straight up] and in a challenge will only get one from the Amulet since you cannot attack anyone but the challenger [and the amulet is still an attack].

The WOC FAQ states it will even hit people in/out of challenges.

The 25mm base (or if I charge) means I can often get 3 people in b-t-b. Against brets and the like I can guarantee three against a lance since they need to maximise models in combat.

@Dungeon lawyer Cheers, puppet can be fun.

Tried out the list last weekend, ended in a massacre, not got round to writing the report yet though, busy at work :(

29-06-2009, 02:20
Hey man just letting you know-

"6 Knights of fury (Khorne marked) 230"

is too many knights/wrong points

carry on =P

29-06-2009, 04:01
Hey man just letting you know-

"6 Knights of fury (Khorne marked) 230"

is too many knights/wrong points

carry on =P

Yeah, its 270, but the list is not over the points, just added the wrong points for the unit.

Anyway have had 4 games over the last three weeks using the hellcannons, can't remember the full details so will be rough reports I'm afraid.

Game 1 2250 points against Qian Ge's lizardmen (again).

So I added the hellcannons in and decided I would use my now much greater number of deployables to out-deploy the lizards.

My list: as above
His list:
Slann, plaqu of Tepoc, becalming cogitation, knows all spells, +1PD per spell, bsb, war banner, cupped hands of the old ones
Engine of the gods
Tetto-ekko Skink Astromancer special character
17 skinks, 2 krox xohort with FC
10 skinks skirmishers
10 skink skirmishers
4 terradons
4 terradons
20 TG, full command, champ had curse charm

- So in deployment managed to refuse the flank against his Engine, Temple guard and cohort. Unfortunately one of tett-ekkos special abilities is to allow you to redeploy D3 units so he was able to redeploy the temple guard and engine. Bugger. So his temple guard were opposite my warriors meaning becalming would kick in pretty early on my sorceror lord.

I got gateway but not pandemonium, he took lore of heavens on the slann.

I won the roll for first turn:

WOC Turn 1

Both the hellcannons fails their control test and one moves 13" towards the skink cohort (i.e. just inside their charge range). The other one moves half an inch into the hounds in front of it. This forced my hand somewhat so I had to move the warriors and marauders up to support. The warrior unit moved carefully so my mages would be within 24" of the temple guard but more than 24" from the slann (because of becalming). Hounds and khorne knights on the flank move up but I expect the hounbds to get rocked and the khorne knights to get led into the forest. I was happy enough with this because they should be able to clear the forest about the same time his temple guard would be facing my warriors. In magic I managed to get gateway off on his temple guard and rolled 11 hits a 6 and a ...4 for strength (we both saw the dice in that order :) ). I rolled 7 1s to wound so only 4 TG died.

Lizzies Turn 1

His cohort charge the hellcannon, everything moves up with the engine moving to get a charge next turn on the hellcannon. His terradons rock the knight' screening hounds and are positioned to lead the knights into the forest. In magic I manage to stop almost everything but burn a scroll. In combat the krox put 1 wound on the hellcannon and take 2 in return. One of the crew is killed by skinks and kills one in return.

WOC Turn 2

Khorne knights charge into the forest after the terradons who flee. The chaos warriors with banner of rage charge the skink cohort but only 2 can get into combat. I move the sorceror lord out of the unit and 8" back so he can't be becalmed. I move a unit of hounds up to the temple guard to slow them down a bit until the knights can get through the flank. In magic he dispels everything including gateway. In shooting the hellcannon scatters off target (and my range guess was off as well). In combat the warriors and hellcannon kill a Krox and leave the other one on 1 wound. It causes a wound to the hellcannon. I win combat by 1 but he holds.

Lizard Turn 2

The Engine charges the hellcannon, razordon pack charges the front of the warriors, terradons charge the flank. Terradons rally and fly into the forest to bait the knights again. Skinks move up to single shot the knights, 3 poison hits and I fail 2 1+ saves. In magic I dispel everything except a comet on my sorceror lord (wasn't too worried with a 2+ save and 5+ ward and a 50/50 chance it wouldn't come down). MR2 on the sorceror lord helped a lot there. In combat the engine causes 2 wounds on the hellcannon with impact hits and attacks and kills a crew member. The 3 terradons in combat with the warriots manage to kill both warriors on the flank the warriors then kill the Krox, kill the razordon and the hellcannon puts a wound on the skink priest. I win combat by 2 but everything passes its break test.

WOC Turn 3

Comet comes down on sorceror lord and does 4 wounds. I fail 3 3+ saves then fail all three 5+ ward saves- general dead. Khorne knights frenzy charge the terradons who get crossfired by my hounds in front of temple guard. Warriors move back away from the temple guard (without the general they can't beat the +7 static CR unless the knights can flank). In shooting the hellcannon shot at the temple guard veers 10" of target to land a direct hit on my hellcannon and partial on his engine. This kills the engine priest but also kills my hellcannon meaning the engine is no longer in combat (bugger). I wound the engine but roll 1 for wounds. MAgic is dispelled but in combat I wipe out the razordon handlers, put three 3 wounds on the terradons and several wound on the skinks. I win by lots and all flee, warriors pursue and catch the cohort, taking their standard.

Lizard Turn 3

Terradons rally. The freed ancient stegadon moves behind my warriors to get a rear charge. In magic my warrior unit gets decimated by lightning and comets. The skinks single shotting put one poison wound on the khorne knights who fail their 1+ save.

WOC Turn 4

The warriors frenzy charge the terradons and skink skirmishers (flee) and the rear is left open to the stegadon charge next turn. Magic is dispelled or fails to cast. The hellcannon shoots, misfires, rolls a 1, is destroyed and kills 4 more chaos warriors.

Lizard Turn 4

Ancient steg rear charges the warriors, temple guard start chasing the warriors but are march blocked by the Khorne knights. Magic reduces me to 3 warriors and the sorcerors (1 of which only had 1 wound due to a miscast earlier). The warriors lose by lots due to impact hits and rear charge, flee and are run down. Skinks poison shot the khorne knights again and I am left with 2 knights.

WOC Turn 5

I call full retreat. In magic I put 2 wounds on tetoo-ekko with buboes, killing him. Qian Ge then remembers his 5+ ward and passes both. I call the game at this point since I had no way left to get any VPs and another player was waiting.

Post battle blurb:

Well that went really badly, first massacre loss to lizards in fact, there were several important points in the game:
1) Tetto ekko allowing him to redeploy (although this wasn't the end of the world)
2) Hellcannon rampaging up to get charged first turn
3) Most important- my lord failing his saves against the comet strike.
4) The hellcannon shot going off target and killing my other hellcannon leaving the engine out of the combat. Had this not happened my warriors would have happily butchered the steg in a turn or two and would have been able to go after the temple guard with the remnants of my other forces.

I rolled badly for saves all game, and although in hindsight moving my sorceror out was the biggest mistake, I'm not sure I was wrong to try it, getting 3 wounds off him was highly unlikely even if the comet did come down that turn. Sadly Qian Ge has emigrated to Australia so there will be no more games against lizards, a shame since I really wanted to try out the list again against lizards.

Three days he had spent preparing the spell, neither the pain of his lightning scorched body nor the rocking of the longboat through the storm whipped seas affecting his concentration in the slightest. Upon defeating his army the slann had returned to their fleet to return to Albion, not even pursuing as the last three members of his chosen guard had dragged his unconscious body from the field. The failure of his spell-warded armour to hald the slann's magic was a clear sign of displeasure from the changer of ways, and there seemed only one way to regain the master's favour- he would annihilate the lizardmen fleet with a spell of such cataclysmic potential unmatched in hundreds of years.

The lizardman fleet of twenty ships had turned to face the three longboats pursuing them, as the fleet spread out to enclose and annihilate the smaller longboats a keening pain split the air. Mindwarper strode to the prow of the lead longboat, the air around him thrumming with power. He pointed at the centre of the enemy fleet and whispered the final word of the spell he had been incanting for three days. An infernal gateway to the realm of chaos over the enemy fleet appeared, the back portal over 1km in diameter, ships and hundreds of tons of sea alike were sucked into the realm of chaos and the longboats shot ahead as the sea rushed to fill the gap. The crew of the longboats cried out with terror as their ships moved with inexorably increasing velocity towards the gateway. Mindwarper began another incantation and the portal began to close, the dread void losing it's hold on the mortal world. Suddenly it ceased closing, whilst still over 200m wide a force from beyond the portal forced it's way through. Daemonic energy flashing blindingly through the sky. Blood spurted from mindwarpers nose and began weeping from his eyes and ears as he strained against the daemons holding the gate against him. Finally his power began to tell and the portal closed, but there was no doubt that more than a few things had got through. Mindwarper turned his blood covered face to the captain of the ship
"Signal the Windserpent to continue on to the Isle of Wights with the Nurgle sorcerors, we must return to Altdorf, I will leave it with Reiner to deal with the daemons that have escaped."
"Yes Master"

29-06-2009, 06:40
Reiner looked over his forces and was pleased with their discipline as they marched in close order to battle. The last few months of clearing out the island of the remaining lizardmen and undead presence had been simple enough, with few losses taken, the largest lizardmen enclave having been taken out by a surgical pincer attack with Thorvald the apostate leading the second force. The daemonic threat was a much greater one, however, since the magic at their command was far greater than a few skink priests. Five different daemonic hosts had appeared on the island and he had split Thorvald's force again to ensure that the daemons could be dealt with piecemeal- if the daemons combined in to one host Reiner knew his force would have no chance to deal with them and he would be forced to cower behind the half completed walls of the fortress. Thorvald had intimated that the daemons had almost certainly been sent by Belakor, whether to punish Thorvald for his apostasy or to use the power of the Ogham stones to release Belakor he knew not. This also explained the strange nature of the daemonic hosts, with servants from all four of the great powers as well as those of undivided and minor gods taken to the field. Thorvald's beast-filled army had already destroyed one such host, and Reiner himself had destroyed another, the three larger hosts remained and the battles would not be easy. Failure to reclaim the isle would greatly hamper his lord's scheme here, and the Master's displeasure with Reiner would not be slight if the isle was lost to the forces of Belakor.

Reiner turned to the drummer of the chosen guard at his side
"Call the advance, we engage immediately"
As the drum was pounded upon the chaos force marched forth to do battle.

Well, there is a new player in the area (Craig from New Zealand) who plays 40K who decided to get into fantasy and wanted to try out daemons since he could collect them for WFB and 40K at the same time, since he only has 10 bloodletters so far I pulled out my daemons for him to play with. Since he wanted to get a feel for the army I put together a list for him with a range of troops to try out at 1500 points:

Khorne herald, jugger, firestorm blade, armour of Khorne (General)
Nurgle herald, noxious vapours, bsb, palanquin
Blue Scribes

26 pink horrors, standard: icon of sorcery
11 Plaguebearers, full command: banner of re-roll wound rolls (seeping decay)
10 bloodletters, standard, champion

Total: 1496 points

Casting pool: 5+ scribes
DD: 4

Not a hard list for daemons, but with decent synergies between the heralds and units. Scribes would allow him to cast some nasty bound spells and take advantage of my low level spell casting.

Reiners force:

Reiner, level 2 sorceror of Tzeentch, bloodskull amulet
Level 2 Sorceror of Nurgle, rod of torment
Leve 1 sorceror of nurgle, book of secrets, scroll

13 Khorne Marauders, GW
13 Chaos warriors of slaanesh, shields, FC: war banner
5 marauder horsmen, slaanesh, light armour, throwing spears, flails, musician 101
5 Warhounds

6 Khorne Knights


So we had three battles, can't remember much detail but:

Battle 1-

Massacre for WOC, the hellcannon held up the plaguebearers for two turns and managed to kill the herald. His general was buboed to death and the warriors mopped up the bloodletters and plaguebearers. The khorne knights took a charge from the flesh hounds and beat them easily enough.

Battle 2:
First turn my hellcannon misfired, blew up and killed the hounds, horsemen, 5 warriors and half the marauders. His first turn saw the blue scribes wipe out the khorne knights with fiery conglagration (got up to 20 something S4 hits). Flamers finished off the marauders and chaos warriors were overwhelmed (he kept passing his anti-buboes ward saves).

Battle 3:

A very bloody affair. Hellcannon misfired and blew itself up turn 3 (taking quite a bit with it). Hounds baited a charge from his khorne hounds with herald and the khorne knights then cleaned the hounds up in combat with the herald dieing due to instability (he only killed 1 knight). The marauder horsemen rear charged the bloodletters and lost, then the three survivors flank charged them and lost again (my marauder horsemen never seem to do well in combat, even when the odds are with them). By the end of the game all that was left was a khorne knight or two, 3 chaos warriors and two nurgle sorcerors (general got killed by bloodletter champ in a challenge).

Quite nice to play against daemons again with warriors (people with daemons don't take them anymore since no-one will play against daemons) as well as seeing my daemons on the field again for the first time in a couple of years since I retired them.

The hellcannons.
Perhaps due to their phallic nature:
(which hopefully won't be as bad when painted)

They have done generally quite poorly, but partially that has been due to their remarkable penchant thus far for failing their Ld test or misfiring and rolling 1's (So far half of my hellcannon shots have been misfires and then a 1 on the misfire chart). Having the hounds start in front of them can prevent the issue of them barrelling forward to get slaughtered first turn. Despite the performance though I think they are a worthy addition to the list, as an unbreakable beastie they are pretty damn tough and have proved their ability to stick the opponent in place for the warriors to countercharge in. 2 Seems to risky for the middle of the battle-line so I will drop 1 freeing 205 points which I haven't decided what to do you. Despite the temptation of a herald on jugger (or giant hound of Khorne since I'd be using Arbaal the easily defeated model) I want to keep as much of a focus on troops as I can. The smaller warrior unit performed very well despite its relative fragility if charged alongside the hellcannon although its the first thing that might get dropped if I need more points since 252 points is still a fair chunk. At the minute I'm considering:

Change the smaller warriors to khornate and no standard, boosting them to twelve, dropping a unit of warhounds and adding the dragon ogres back in.
i) Dragon ogres add a bit of flexibility and increase my range of units (I try to have a fair mix rather than loading up on knights/whatever)
ii) The smaller warriors won't give up an extra 100VPs from the standard if charged
i) One less deployable unit means I will usually be on par with the average for armies so won't have as much power in the deployment phase.
ii) The warriors will be weaker if they lose a combat and are more likely to without the standard. They can also then lose their frenzy and autobreak against fear causers.


Drop the warriors and add in dragon ogres, boost the marauder unit to 24 with a standard, get another unit of hounds and 6 forsaken
i) More deployables
ii) As a countercharger the marauders are almost as effective as the warriors (due to the +3 ranks but are almost 100 points cheaper
iii) Forsake are a nice throw away unit to disrupt enemy plans.
Marauders die with tremendous ease to a whole range of stuff and I'm left with only 2 real hammer units.
Drop a magic level and familiar from a nurgle sorceror and stick him on a chariot, get a level 1 sorceror of Tzeentch with book and power familiar, get a fourth unit of warhounds.
i) Magic offence up slightly (12 PD is what I consider the maximum for fair play, hence the dropped magic level for the nurgle sorceror on chariot). Magic defence also up to 7 DD
ii) 10 deployables isn'tbad.
iii) Rank busting discount chariot with -1 to hit from shooting has good synergy with the nurgle sorceror's mark and nice combo/counter chargine power. A normal chariot with mark of nurgle is 150 points, this one is just 100 which greatly offsets the cost of the mage on top. So for an extra 50 points I'm getting a buboes caster, 1PD, 1DD, a scroll and US5. Chariot also gets deployed last with heroes which is handy.
iv) Very handy against ASF elves and the like.
v) Gives me two more magic missiles to throw about early game.
i) Cannons or S7 bolt throwers. I really fear cannons with chariots even if I seldom actually face them. Still at 100 points for the chariot it's not too bad and ther's only 1/6 chance of the mage getting smacked.
ii) Chariot aside that's 882 points in characters, 40% of the army compared to 35% before.

Opinions are more than welcome on this.

Anyway with the challenge of the lizards gone and my main regular playing WOC and him not particulalry a fan of WOC vs WOC battles I'll be using my chaos lizards and vampires a bit more for a while, and won't be using WOC unless the store manager comes back with his greenskins and empire or the DE and HE players surface.

My Views on WOC this edition (since I'll be taking a break from them for a while):

With WOC so far in this edition I've suffered two massacres (greenskins and lizards) two other losses have been against double engine lizards, 1 against Teclis. 2 Close draws against lizards as well and 10 victories. So far have played bretts, WOC, HE, greenskins, VC, daemons and lizards, hopefully will get in games against the local DE, dwarf and He players although they don't seem to play as regularly.

Despite my initial deep depression with the changes to chaos in general, WOC are still a fun enough army to play (albeit not as much fun as HOC) and are a strong army with a few bad matchups but with all the tools needed to be in with a chance regardless. I've found forsaken to be more useful than is generally thought and the hellcannon testing has been mixed but that's as much the dice as anything. Knights are not necessarily superior to warriors in my opinion, they may be easier to use and extremely powerful against many lists but some armies can school them pretty hard due to the low model count. Warriors don't excel as much against some lists but are generally more dependable if you cater for their greatest weakness- how easy they are to break. Against deathstar builds I think warriors are also a better choice- the rank bonus and ability to take casualties counts a lot there. Hellcannon I think can help a lot to protect the warriors from getting charged. For my units used so far:
Slaaneshi warriors with war banner and bloodskull sorceror- 10/10
- always the last unit to die when I'm losing and has held against a slew of tough things.
Warhounds- 10/10
- oh so useful, WOC would suck without these 30 point bundles of joy
Forsaken- 6/10
- As an expendable unit to screw with your opponents plans they are great for the low cost. Theit T compared to horsmen has allowed them to take quite a lot of punishment from shooting and MM and still be on the field.
Marauder Horsemen- 6/10
- I take them partly because they SHOULD be useful. To date though they have only really performed in two out of 17 games. One of those games was 7 horsemen with mark of Khorne which were nasty for the points cost. Fragility against a shooting army is a big issue though.
Banner of rage warriors with halberds- 7/10
- The do put down the hurt but cost almost as much as Khorne Knights and can be toast if charged. If protected though seem a good unit.
Dragon Ogres- 7/10
- For character and monster hunting they are great, and they draw a lot of fire but can suck up a fair bit of punishment. Not great for breaking infantry though unless supported. Don't get raped by lord of metal/engines of the gods like the rest of the chaos army either
Marauders- 5/10
They fold if charged by anything and get shot to pieces with ease. Slaaneshi ones can't hold the line with hw+sh any more unless you havd a BSB and Ld9 nearby. Static CR is not what it used to be, and really needs to be backed up by a decent level of break resistance. Small Khornate units however are a cheap and nasty threat with GW and if they die 90 points is not the end of the world- 7/10 for khorne marauders. Compared to cheap infantry in other armies they also suffer indirectly from a lack of shooting that empire/greenskins can use to reduce the power of enemy combat units before they are hit. Magic does not make up that difference
Hellcannon- 7/10
Not great as a shooting unit but adds a bit of flexibility. With an infantry list though they seem very useful indeed, if a bit random. Using hounds to keep them in line helps too. To me this unit is a 150 point unbreakable T6 monster with 55 points spent on the ability to cause terror, shoot a bit and at least threaten big beasties. Terror hasn't come in to play for me really but I've been playing armies that generally don't care about it, I'm sure it will be a lot more useful against hordes. Against a gunline the hellcannon will likely be toast after a while even with its 5+ "crew member" save
Khorne Knights- 7.5/10
They do hit very very hard, but even with screens can still be baited and die to lore of metal and engines like nobody's business. More units would reduce the number that get baited but still against some armies it's going to happen to several units. Undeniably effective, but certainly not an autowin and once they are baited there is nothing a general can do to bring them back under control
Tzeentch Knights- 6.5/10
Whilst I like them for the fluff, that 6+ ward never seems to be passed, banner of wrath was nice but the unit was then damn expensive at over 300 points. A disk bsb would help a lot in adding enough combat punch to break units whilst keeping the flexibility of not being frenzied. The 5+ ward save banner whilst nice in theory, wasn't really that useful in practice. If it was against magic as well...
Tzeentch Sorceror Lord- 8/10 (9/10 in my army with bloodskull amulet)
In 17 games so far I really don't think casting gateway will generally win you games with the sorceror, only a fool fails to dispel it. On the other hand pandemonium is a game winning spell against magic heavy armies and I think I've cast pandemonium more in my opponents turn due to pandemonium+puppet, than I've got it off in mine. Two autokills to date in 17 battles and gateway going off about 15 times- a unit of knights of the realm (made little difference the autokill) and an oldblood on carnisaur (made a big difference). Gateway as a game winner is only really if you have the prince for IF and even then only if you are playing against an elite army. Greenskins shrug it off fairly easily. Gateway is there as a threat to get other spells through and the tzeentch sorcerors greatest assistance is in magic defence, not offence
Nurgle level 2's- 9/10
Buboes is a great spell and, thankfully, my opponents in general don't try to counter it (eceptions being lizards where there are no good targets and the O&G player who deploys well and prevents early usage of buboes by using screens). Against a canny opponent buboes will be greatly reduced in effectiveness but curse of the leper is a nice scary spell to draw dice, and so is quagmire. 4+ regen is nice but anytime I've been able to get it off the combat was a foregone conclusion anyway. The mark of nurgle's-1WS has been very helpful in keeping my sorcerors alive in many battles, especially against lizards, but also against wizard hunting light cavalry. against WOC btw buboes is great, especially when your own mages get MR2 :)

Chaos Chosen deathstars vs. A solid warrior unit (just opinion)
Whilst I've seen a few chosen deathstars bandied about the forums and they seem to do quite well the 750 points for the deathstar+2shrines compared to the 273 for aq decent sized unit of warriors is massive. Sure warriors led by a bloodksull pendant lord can still be trounced from the front by super heavies or a combo charge and will break easily like no-ones business if flank charged by anything half-decent but the 500 points saved buys an awful lot of options. It also buys peace of mind I reckon- deathstars are neither fun, nor require skill and with 500 points less to spend on other stuff they are far less likely to see combat against a meaningful unit to get their points back against a competent player.

29-06-2009, 08:30
Thanks a lot for the recap matey, I'm half tempted by WoC now- all that plasticy elite goodness :)

29-06-2009, 12:13

Love the batreps and the great fluff :)
Sad to hear you're retiring the WoC for now, it's been a fairly big influence on my own plans and army selection (mainly validating my choices by showing that they can be competitive afterall! :p). Thanks for the final review as well, hope to see more in this thread once you find some opponents :)

29-06-2009, 12:21

Love the batreps and the great fluff :)
Sad to hear you're retiring the WoC for now, it's been a fairly big influence on my own plans and army selection (mainly validating my choices by showing that they can be competitive afterall! :p). Thanks for the final review as well, hope to see more in this thread once you find some opponents :)

Wow thanks for that, I was actually getting a bit slow on the reporting and fluff since no-one was posting. The WOC are definitely not retired as such, just won't be out for a fight for a couple of weeks I reckon. My chaos lizards have had little to do for a while and the second best thing to fighting lizards with WOC is fighting with them against WOC! Its also nice to have all those skirmishing units running through trees and lakes, makes Mindwarper weep with envy :)

@Selone personally I'd be very happy if you went for WOC mate, always nice to read your battle reps and if they were chaos it would be even cooler :)
Did I mention they are much cheaper than greenskins to collect? :p

29-06-2009, 13:42
Unfortunately, due to the black background of the Warseer forums, I've been pushed onto The Warhammer Forum during the day while I'm at 'work' :p, so haven't posted much here. Although I don't like the greyscale skin for these forums, I might try it here at work, as it's a bit more subtle :) So keep posting!

Plus if you're going to take a bit of time out to play with Lizards instead, you have to write some fluff to explain the downtime :p

29-06-2009, 18:28
Cheers for the new reports K, enjoyed hearing about your hellcannon's schenanigans. Run 1 in my army just 1-2 times now, and he's behaved himself far far more than your phallic twins ;)

Hope to read about your lizardy and undead exploits, though my allegiance is still with your chaos boys.

- Salvage

29-06-2009, 19:12
@Selone personally I'd be very happy if you went for WOC mate, always nice to read your battle reps and if they were chaos it would be even cooler :)
Did I mention they are much cheaper than greenskins to collect? :p

Indeed a 200+ point unit for £13.20 seems good to me. As I say now that redben's traded off his WoC I am very tempted, likely I'll give it a few months till a) I have teh cash and b) the new army syndrome wears off.

06-07-2009, 20:56
Very nice reports. Took me two sittings to get through all of them, but I enjoyed them (especially the fluff, it was very well written). Admittedly, I know little about WoC, which makes this kind of hard (besides the fact that almost everything is spiky, and dangerous if you get too close). I look forward to seeing what the Mindwarper does to the Isle of Wights.

07-07-2009, 19:09
Cheers mate. The isle of wights will be of secondary importance for a while since Mindwarper has returned to the empire (and since the only other lizard player in our group has gone), but Craig wants to try out Empire some time soon so I'll definitely crack out the WOC against them.

10-07-2009, 14:41
Well despite decent success with my old list, two hellcannons was a bit much and a bit too random. So I've decided to change the list a bit, and introduce Mindwarper's other apprentice into the list (Since Reiner, Andreas and Thorvald the apostate will be staying on the isle of Wights).Also I've never felt the Tzeentch spells were sufficiently Tzeentchy in execution being rather too straightforward.

Whilst Reiner is a loyal follower of Mindwarper, and both seek to work change through the old world, Franz Abendroth is both sly and egotistical, and fear of his master is all that keeps him in check. Whilst lacking the direct magical power of Reiner, Franz relies on underhanded methods, scheming, surprise and the sorcery of trickery and the mind. He has an imp-like familiar which can become invisible at will and loves to strike down the enemy unexpectedly from behind. Franz is a follower of Tzeentch but I'll be using the slaanesh mark to represent him.

Franz Abendroth, Sorceror of Tzeentch, level 2 sorceror (mark of slaanesh), doomblister cutloon (Tzeentch minor daemon and warrior familiar), daemonsteed (steed of slaanesh), book of secrets, dagger of the warp (biting blade). 200 points.
Hopefully this set up will capture his sneaky nature as well as possible, the warrior familiar for a surprise attack, several of the slaanesh spells are quite sneaky in use and with a 20" charge range for going after war machine crews and maybe missile and light cavalry units (he kills an average of 2 models each h-t-h phase). The biting blade will probably never get used so its more of a 5 point fluff thingy. Being on a steed of slaanesh will also force enemy trying to charge the main warrior unit to take a fear test which is nice. He'll probably go for dark magic usually with the book since doom and darkness, drain life, steal soul and walking death can all be quite sneaky. Walking death on franz and pandemonium from Mindwarper being one potentially nasty combo against low leadership armies.

Since I've added another sorceror I've dropped the magic levels of the two Nurgle sorcerors (Wrackspew and Quakegrim).

I've dropped the marauder horsemen (they just don't accomplish enough even when they get a rear/flank charge and are, in my list, by far the easiest VPs for shooting and magic missiles) and the second hellcannon to afford Franz and two cut price chariots for the nurgle sorcerors (for those not familiar with WOC, chariot mounts are 20 points cheaper and if you have a marked character riding them they get the benefit without needing to pay for a mark for the chariot, so by sticking the nurgle sorcerors on chariots you save about 50 points compared to buying them seperately). The nurgle sorcerors will be a bit more at risk from magic now but with randomisation and the 2+ save should be ok.

Anyway the full list:

Mindwarper, level 4 sorceror of Tzeentch, spell familiar, armour of change (enchanted shield and collar of Khorne), bloodskull amulet. (general) 390
Wrackspew, level 1 sorceror of Nurgle, forbidden puppet, chariot 240
Quakegrim, level 1 sorceror of Nurgle, power familiar, chariot, 230
Franz Abendroth, level 2 sorceror of slaanesh, book of secrets, warrior familiar,biting blade steed of slaanesh 200 points


12 Norse levy GW (Khorne marauders), musician 85
6 warhounds 42
2*5 warhounds 60
14 Chosen guard, FC, shields, warbanner (slaanesh warriors) 289
11 Chaos warriors, shields, halberds, musician, standard: rage 240


6 Knights of fury (Khorne marked) 230



PD: 12
DD: 7
Models: 66 (3 less than before but the chariots are a lot tougher than the horsemen were)

Only 8 deployables since the chariots are character mounted. Technically its a lot more points in characters, but taking the chariots into account as troops its not that much (855 if you subtract the chariots, 795 if you take into account the free marks).

I'm usually afraid to take chariots because of cannons but at 100 points its a bit more palatable and with the -1 to hit from shooting, cannons and stone throwers aside they should be fine. Chariots traditionally go well with an infantry army anyway and US5 is nice to have.

Anyway this list will be up against wood elves on sunday, and maybe WOC. The chariots will be awful against wood elves I guess but what the hell, I'll give them a go for a while at least :)

10-07-2009, 18:02
Don't be afraid to throw your chariots into the forests! Do a nice tactical wheel as you hit the enemy and you'll almost certainly survive the D6 S6 (all on the chariot), and then hurtle out of the forest on the overrun (and you only take one set of hits per turn, so you won't be stuck). Your opponent is unlikely to expect it too ;)

10-07-2009, 18:06
Don't be afraid to throw your chariots into the forests! Do a nice tactical wheel as you hit the enemy and you'll almost certainly survive the D6 S6 (all on the chariot), and then hurtle out of the forest on the overrun (and you only take one set of hits per turn, so you won't be stuck). Your opponent is unlikely to expect it too ;)

Thanks for that, I'd never realised that you can't take the hits more than once in a turn, you learn something new every day :)

15-07-2009, 12:33
Don't be afraid to throw your chariots into the forests! Do a nice tactical wheel as you hit the enemy and you'll almost certainly survive the D6 S6 (all on the chariot), and then hurtle out of the forest on the overrun (and you only take one set of hits per turn, so you won't be stuck). Your opponent is unlikely to expect it too ;)

Im gonna have to remind myself NOT to tell my buddy who plays TK's of that little stinker of a sneaky good tactic!;):evilgrin:

15-07-2009, 14:48
Well it is risky though... if you don't make it through the forest then you are in a bit of trouble...

(Not to mention that those khorne knights will probably be in the woods already ;) )

16-07-2009, 18:15
Affairs in Altdorf are once again running smoothly. Despite his undoubted efforts, Franz’s business acumen is definitely not his strong point and my resources have been substantially depleted in hiring more mercenaries, cannons and forging armour and weapons for my depleted force. Franz has, however, had success with enlarging the cult in Altdorf and more noble and merchant sons are moving inexorably towards the worship of Lord Tzeentch.

My beastman ally, the beastlord Tzrain, has begged for my help. It seems he has been desecrating elven waystones in the search for an artifact known as the Eyes of Loren, assuming that then returning to the Reikwald he would be safe from their vengeance. The item seems to be of such value to the Asrai that they have flown a force from Loren to the Reikwald and defeated and scattered his warband and are now hunting Tzrain and the remainder of his army for the artifact. I have agreed to assist my ally in return for the artifact, surely it must be of great puissance to warrant such an extreme response from the Asrai.

The warhawk riders were engulfed by flickering blue flames and three plummeted, aflame to the floor of the clearing. The smell of charred flesh and feathers filled the air. One of the riders had somehow survived the fall and flames. The once-fair elven face was a ghastly mess and one eyeball had been boiled in its socket, she whimpered piteously as she sought to free her broken legs from under the dead warhawk.
“Shall I have her slain my lord?” queried Franz
“No, if the death of their comrades is not enough to bring the elves here to fight, the straits of this elf maid were certainly bring them. There are few clearings of this size in the forest, and I certainly do not wish to be chasing wood elves through the forest”
“Of course my lord, you are every wise” said Franz unctuously
“Spare me the flattery Franz, deeds alone can impress me- I have been well pleased with Reiner’s successes holding the Isle of Wights”
To that Franz had no reply.

A speck appeared on the horizon moving toward the clearing, as it sped closer the dragon roared it’s clarion call to battle, the smaller dots of warhawk riders behind it. On the far end of the clearing trees shook as two mighty treeman strode into the clearing. The ordered ranks of Mindwarpers host waited silently for the foe, the pitiful gasps of the fallen elf maid the only sound.

The placing of terrain was fairly important for this battle, each time Craig placed a wood I placed a lake to counter it- since I wanted to have one flank guaranteed to be without wood elf shenanigans in the trees, and the hellcannon would then hold the other flank. I was also hoping to be able to set up some charges with the chariots to force the wood elf cavalry into impassable terrain if possible.


You can see my deployment in the photo below (although I’d moved the chariots and hounds at this stage):


One nurgle chariot (only just got the sorcerer for the chariot so not painted yet) at the bottom, marauders facing the lake- they were here to hopefully force his units into the centre early so I would have less to worry about with flank charges later. Hounds to the front, hellcannon holding the other side of the clearing to hold that flank (and since it’s the only unit I have that can move through trees) with both warrior blocks in the middle.

On my left flank I put a unit of hounds and the Khorne Knights (usually these guys are Tzeentch knight which is why they are riding giant birds):


The knights were more her for safety than anything else since the dragon can go through knights easily, so Craig would have to decide to go after them with the dragon for the easy points but be away from the main battle area or leave them be and I could then use them late game as reinforcements. Again this flank would force his cavalry and warhawks into the centre.

Craig’s left flank:


Warhawks (ogre bulls)
Glade riders and two units of archers. On the right flank the treeman, dragon rider, glade riders and more warhawks (ogre bulls):


I won roll for first turn and took the first turn. I had decided to do a fake advance, moving everything up more or less full tilt in order to get spells within range and hopefully keep the wood elves defensive first turn, then retreat 2” per turn to guard the flanks with hellcannon/lake. In hindsight this was quite a big mistake- I would have been better off simply letting craig have the first turn but I wanted to try and get an early shot on the dragon with the hellcannon. As it was even with moving up the dragon was out of range of gateway so the first magic phase was a bit of a waste.


Hellcannon passes its test. Turn 1 moved the hounds forward and infantry up to get into range with some spells. Right hand chariot swung right past the lake to get into sight of the warhawks. Magic saw a buboes wound on the warhawks. Gateway was out of range so I cast pandemonium. Titillating delusions is dispelled (might have been scrolled), second buboes dispelled, lash of slaanesh kills three glade guard (they pass panic). In shooting the hellcannon gets a partial hit on the dragon (the hole was just beyond the dragon’s base, my range guessing sucks) but fails to hit dragon or rider. Flickering fire does 3 S2 hits to the dragon to no avail.

For spells my nurgle mages took buboes, mindwarper got 1,2,3,5,6 and Franz got titillating delusions (yay!) the magic missile and fireball from the book.


The dragon flies up to the left of may warriors threatening their flank and breathes on them killing one or two. All of his units on the flanks move into the forests leaving the flanks bare. The spellsingers leave their units and hide in the woods. The right hand warhawks fly 20” to the side of the nurgle chariot on the far right and out of its charge arc. Shooting kills 2 from the 5 hound unit in the centre, 3 from the other one (pass panic since general is within 12”). The dragon breathes on the warriors killing 2 The treemen more or less stay where they were. Magic sees a little bit of forest movement.


The hounds pass their terror tests. Hellcannon passes its test. The centre nurgle chariot charges the right hand glade riders (flee) and stops right next to the forest. My slaanesh warriors reform to face the dragon and 5 wide so I get the +2 rank bonus back. The halberd warriors move up to the back of my other warriors so the dragon can’t charge them. The Nurgle chariot on the right moves further right and pivots to see the warhawks. The marauders turn and head towards the centre of the table. Hounds and Khorne Knights move up on the left flank. In magic most things are dispelled (another scroll drawn by delusions) but I get an IF gateway on 5 dice and roll… 4 S2 attacks against the dragon. This actually wounds the elf lord twice but he passes both 3+ ward saves. In shooting the hellcannon misfires, rolls the rampage result and rampages 16” into the dragon lord. In combat the cannon fails to harm the elf lord but the ward save failed once (wound was saved by regen) so ward save was gone. In return the elf and dragon put 2 wounds on the hellcannon.

* The hellcannon charging was a bit unexpected and neither of us was too pleased by it initially- Craig was going to charge the marauders with an overrun into the nurgle chariot (which might have fled off the board, and I hadn’t considered the pursuit path so it was probably a good thing, especially considering my luck with gateway). At the same time I wanted more time to whittle down the dragon with the hellcannon, gateway and maybe set it up with titillating delusions. I didn’t think the hellcannon would last too long against the dragon.


Warhawks pass terror. The left hand warhawks charge the left hand hounds. Right hand warhawks fly to the centre of my table edge just out of sight of the marauders. The treemen decide it’s time to come forward and move up 12”. The glade riders on the right rally and move back into the forest with a potential flank charge on the nurgle chariot. The ones on the left move through the trees to potentially flank the main warrior block. Magic sees a little bit more treesinging going off. All his shooty units plink away at the main warrior block but to little effect and kill another hound. The warhawks shoot the marauders and kill 1. In combat the warhawks killed two of the three remaining warhounds, who break and flee but the warhawks don’t pursue. The hellcannon is butchered.


The main warrior block gets a simultaneous charge on the warhawks and the dragon, and the remaining two hounds of the other unit in their flank (probably not the wisest of moves). The dragon was wary about fleeing due to the lake behind it if it fled (ditto the warhawks). The middle nurgle chariot pivoted but this brought it into contact with the trees so it suffered 3 wounds. It moved past his treeman then pivoted again to face the glade riders who would soon be charging it. The other chariot headed back towards the centre. The Khorne knights moved into the forest. Magic saw another scroll drawn with gateway on a treeman and another warhawk rider killed (brigning them down to US4). Might have chipped a wound of the right hand treeman as well. In combat the warrior familiar failed to wound the lord, mindwarper called a challenge and rolled a 1 to wound the dragon with the S8 auto-hit. The other warriors put 3 wounds on the warhawks. The warhounds did nothing and 1 died in return. The dragon and rider put 1 wound on my general (after saves). I had 3 wounds, 2 ranks, banner, war banner and US to his 2 wounds and both dragon and hawks broke and fled into the lake and died.

WE Turn 3

The left hand glade riders charge the flank of the main warrior block Pass fear test to charge steed of slaanesh) whilst a treeman charges in to the front. The right hand glade riders charge the wounded chariot as does the right hand spellsinger. The right hand treeman moved to get a flank charge on my main warrior unit. Magic was mostly dispelled, shooting saw the last chaos hound die and one of the halberd wielding warriors fall (taking away their rank bonus. In combat the warrior familiar killed a glade rider whilst the ASF steed fails to hit. The glade riders fail to harm the warriors or the sorcerer (he passes his AS). The treeman wails on my general nut can’t get past the 1+/5+ save and takes a wound in return from the bloodskull amulet. The treeman fails his stubborn test and flees whilst the glade riders pass their break test. The right hand glade riders, steeds and the spellslinger all attack the nurgle sorcerer on the chariot but only manage one wound. In return I kill a glade rider and put a wound on the spellslinger. He had a musician so wins but I pass the Ld7 break test.


The Khorne Knights continue to head through the forest. Magic saw the last scroll drawn and gateway cast on the unengaged treeman- causing 4 S2 hits (couldn’t wound, or it was scrolled, can’t remember). In combat the glade riders on the flank were wiped out by the big warrior block. In the other combat the chariot crewman killed the spellslinger and the horses and sorcerer killed all but one of the remaining glade riders. The glade riders broke and I passed my test not to pursue.


The treeman flank charged the main warrior block in the flank, the other treeman rallied. Both glade guard units turned to face the chariot and sorcerer both with 1 wound left. Magic saw treesinging from one mage fail to cast 4 times in a row by the spellsinger with calingors staff, so no magic got through. In shooting the glade guard failed to kill the chariot or mage riding it (for two turns they had below average shooting whilst I passed every save, the dice were getting silly against Craig at this point this was even with me forgetting the extra +2 save against shooting the sorcerer should have had). The treeman killed one or 2 warriors and passed its stubborn test.


The halberdiers flank charged the big tree. The unwounded chariot charged the warhawks who fled into the lake and died. The other chariot charged the 10 man unit of glade guard who fled but were run down by the chariot. The Khorne Knights moved most of the way through the wood to get a flank charge if the second treeman charged the front of my main warrior block and maybe tempt him to go after them instead. Magic saw another gateway go off on a treeman (S2 hits again). Delusions was cast on the remaining spellslinger on the left forcing him to charge my Khorne Marauders next turn. In combat the halberd guys failed to wound the treeman whilst the treeman killed 3 in return and passed its stubborn test.

WE 5

The rallied treeman charged the khorne knights. The spellslinger charges the marauders. The glade guard turned to shoot at the wounded chariot again but again failed to do anything. In combat the treeman killed 4 knights (failed 4 4+ saves, about time I failed some to be fair) who broke and fled (he didn’t pursue). In the other combat I put a wound on the treeman and he killed another 3 halberdiers. He passed his stubborn test. The spellslinger is butchered by the marauders.


The wounded chariot turns to face the glade guard whilst the other one charged the tree in the rear. The Khorne knights rally. Magic sees gateway go off again with 7 S5 hits, 3 wounds caused, 3 saves failed and the treeman was dead. Delusions was cast on the glade guard making them move forward towards the warriors and offering their rear to my chariot. In combat I rolled 1 for impact hits which failed to wound and the warriors combined managed to do a single wound to the treeman. In return the treeman killed the nurgle sorcerer (no messing about this time). Treeman passed his stubborn test.

WE Turn 6

Glade guard move towards the titillating delusion. In combat the treeman puts 2 wounds on the chariot, I fail to wound him, he passes his break test.

WOC 7 (we really need to start counting the turns in the game)

The chariot charges the rear of the glade guard and wipes them out in combat. In combat the big tree killed the chariot then failed its stubborn test, ran and was caught.

Wow treemen are tough. 9S5 attacks 6 S4 attacks each round and later the impact hits, and chariots attacks and it still had 2 wounds left when it fled.

“No survivors my lord”
“Excellent, then the Asrai will be ignorant of what took place this day, or indeed who now has their relic. We return to Altdorf immediately.

Post-battle thoughts:
Well Craig’s luck with shooting was pretty poor and my rolling of saves was very good, especially at the crucial time (against the dragon lord). Franz performed very well indeed, delusions was crucial for drawing out scrolls since it really is a must dispel spell, the warrior familiar was handy and, although the glade riders passed their fear test, it was nice to have that additional bit of insurance against flank charges. Initially I thought I was going to get my backside handed to me- three big rank-breaking monsters to deal with and only one unit capable of doing it. Deploying one of the nurgle mages on the right flank was a mistake, I really need to remember to keep the nurgle boys together- buboes at the same target is a lot more useful than against separate ones. I was very impressed with how manoueverable the pivot on the chariot makes them. The hellcannons rampage was very important, and the general’s flee path into the lake removed the biggest threat much earlier than I expected. I think Craig made a few mistakes:
1) not moving the treemen up first turn (although to be fair no-one could have predicted the hellcannon charge on the dragon and he was planning to whittle my army with shooting and breath attack before combo charging mid/late game)
2) Not fleeing with the warhawks on the combo charge against the dragon allowed me to get an extra 2/3 points of combat res in that combat.

The dragon’s flee path into the lake was not really a mistake since without the rampage, there was no way I could have charged it that turn.

My big mistake was deployment.

The smaller frenzied warrior unit fared quite poorly and I’m still concerned by how breakable it is, quite tempted to spend the 240 points on something else. I've also yet to actually damage anything with the hellcannon yet. I'll stick with them for a while longer since this kind of monster list is hardly the norm.

Franz worked out very well and I have a ton of potential missions for that character depending on opponent and situation.

17-07-2009, 00:06
You do need to count turns yes ;) Congratulations though, playing against WE with Chaos could be an exerciese in frustration I'd imagine :)

20-07-2009, 15:26
Very interesting report. I'd have thought that once the Dragon killed the Hellcannon he'd have auto-broken and pursued the crew away from the lake. Was there one or two Treemen in the Wood Elf army?

21-07-2009, 04:52
Very interesting report. I'd have thought that once the Dragon killed the Hellcannon he'd have auto-broken and pursued the crew away from the lake. Was there one or two Treemen in the Wood Elf army?

Can't remember what happened with the crew, and yes he had two treemen. For some reason I thought treemen had S5, was a rude awakening they had S6, tough buggers.

Next game craig will be taking bretonnians (he wants to try every warhammer army to get used to them before picking one)., I'll be taking the same list again although I expect he will be taking 5 or 6 dispel scrolls so it will be won or lost in combat. Next game will probably be WOC though, hopefullt Franz can do some sneaky shenanigans in that battle as well. I've been trying to get used to a new battle report programme, its a lot prettier but not too user friendly. When I get time I'll add the dwarves v lizardmen report using the new programme.

Still waiting for the hellcannon to shine. So far it has done, when shooting:
Killed 1 temple guard
Killed a skink priest
Done one wound to a stegadon
Killed a hellcannon (my own on a scatter)
Killed 5 Chaos warriors (mine while misfiring)
Killed 15 chaos warhounds (mine while misfiring)
Killed 5 marauder horsemen (mine, while misfiring)

So its killed about 100 points of my opponent so far and 450 points of mine :wtf::)

In combat its killed:
1 Krox, 3/4 skinks
Put 1 wound on a stegadon.

I've "used" 8 hellcannons so far and only one has survived a battle so far. Hopefully some bretonnians will fail their terror tests :)

I really need to work on the range guessing but I really am hoping it starts to pull a few more points in. At the minute I'm tempted by either some spawn or some maneaters to fulfil the same role as an anvil.

21-07-2009, 12:17
It's one of those units that is a bit luck-oriented. I played against a friend's Warriors army using my High Elves last week, it was his first game. Turn 1 he got a direct hit on my Lion Chariot, killing it outright. Turn 2, he got a direct hit on my Swordmasters and killed a half dozen of them. I commented that he'd done more damage with his Hellcannon with his first two shots EVER than I did in all of my first three games put together. He complained that my Swordmasters had passed their LD7 panic test. Now there's perspective.

My best result with it was miscasting turn 1 vs High Elves, making an enemy Archmage miscast and die (No Puppet in my army). Then it didn't hit a single other thing all game, and when it miscast and exploded later on in the game, it granted my opponent 2/3 as many VPs as I had gained for the death of his Lord. So even in my luckiest experience with it, it barely helped me overall in the battle. Still, I'm using it at a tournament this weekend, we'll see if it can do any better. I'm hoping for Stegs, I do hit and kill them sometimes :)

21-07-2009, 15:16
Doh! I think we auto killed the crew when the cannon died, I couldn't overrun with it anyway as it wasn't the first round of combat? I might be wrong, but they might have blocked the charge [edit: oh i see, pursuit not overrun].

I think it also held up a block of bloodletters K while the cavalry arrived in an earlier game. The unbreakable thing was quite handy. I may be wrong. The dragon would have been baited by that slanneshy devilry eventually after my scrolls were gone.

Might have got the maruaders and a mage on a chariot first.

My Bret list is looking very horsey atm, got a funny feeling it will go like the Rhinox game. I seem to get attracted to extremely elite lists.

22-07-2009, 06:20
I think we did, you could have pursued into the warriors (since it died your turn) and been a crucial few inches further from the lake.

The hellcannon did hold up your plaguebearers once (think it wounded the herald as well) so I guess it did shine one game.

Bret lists are usually horse heavy mate :) , the core troops are where its at (unless you are going for the RAF list).

I'll be modifying my list slightly, dropped the halberd warriors for 5 DOW heavy cavalry, a unit of marauder horsemen and boosted the marauder block. I don't think the second warrior block is solid enough without a bsb around.

26-07-2009, 19:03
Had a game against little Sun's WOC today:

All in all it had been a strange week, mused Mindwarper. On Monday two of the wealthier merchant princes of Altdorf had come beggin at his door, seeking his largess in saving their merchant houses from ruin- they had invested heavily in grain and foodstuffs over the last few months, sure that such would fetch a good price in the war-torn aftermath of Archaon’s crusade. They had been overjoyed by his magnanimity in granting each of them a substantial loan with apparently generous terms- to be repayed within 6 months with a mere 2% interest, failure to repay of course would result in their assets and houses becoming subsumed into Schmidt Trading- his own house. The irony that their ruin had been caused by magical plagues in their warehouses from his nurgle puppets was a fine one. There was doubtless great carousing that night- such a low rate of interest was almost unheard of, and word had it that he was now being called “the kind prince of merchant princes”. Of course they were not to know that any caravan or shipment of goods they sent for the next six months would be attacked by his beastman ally Tzrain or his own mercenaries disguised as “bandits”- they would find repaying the loan itself difficult enough, regardless of the interst and Schmidt Trading would grow considerably.

On Wednesday an imperial herald had delivered a missive from the Emperor’s trade secretary, querying why he had been hiring so many mercenary companies, purchasing cannons and buying plate armour and weapons. His reply to the effect that he sought to help clear the roads and byways of the empire from the chaos menace had seemed a suitable response. More than suitable as it turned out, on Thursday Kurt Helborg himself had called to the trading house with a commission from the Emperor- granting the rank of Colonel and asking for the new Colonel to mount patrols along the roads of the Empire with a substantial bounty offered on any chaos worshippers, beastmen, chaos beasts, bandits or greenskins killed- with ears or heads as proof of course. A useful title indeed, now with the ability to request command of state troops or order bodies of troops led by a lesser rank from his path.

I have of course informed Tzrain that if he has any further rivalries with other beastlords, or raids any human settlements or caravans to keep the ears of the dead. At the same time I have had my mercenaries and caravan guards patrolling the roads from the capital in force, so far they have encountered several small warbands and scattered mutants: all have been offered the same choice- join me or die. So far thirty or so have joined and a few dozen have been killed. Those who have joined have been sent to Breitenlohe castle. Leading the largest force we have kept to the largest roads and come across two caravans- we took the second one and kept their ears as bandits, we let the first one through to prevent any suspicions arising. Today, however, a large warband has been sighted by outriders, and from scrying it seems it is one of Archaon’s Tzeentchian former lieutenants, chance alone seems unlikely, oh how my master likes to play his followers against one another.


“Master, I fear we are overmatched, the artifact they bear is potent indeed, I fear we will be unable to overcome their sorcery” suggested Franz in a nervous whisper.
“Don’t be so faint hearted Franz, I detest sniveling. I will crush this force on the field of battle whilst draining the soul from this failed follower from a failed incursion. Signal the advance, cavalry to the flanks, infantry in the centre and unleash the daemon in the cannon”
“Of course master”

Xiao sun's list:

Level 4 Sorceror lord of Tzeentch, book of secrets, spell familiar, armour of morrslieb (maybe something else as well)
Level 2 Sorceror of Tzeentch, steed, collar of khorne, power familiar
Level 2 Sorceror of Tzeentch, infernal puppet
Level 2 Sorceror of Nurgle, skull of katam

15 Slaanesh Chaos warriors, FC: warbanner, shields
10 Slaanesh marauders, flails
6 Khorne Marauder horsemen, flails, light armour
5 warhounds
5 warhounds

3 Dragon ogres, GW
6 Khorne Knights

Slaanesh Chaos Spawn

My list:

Mindwarper, level 4 sorceror of Tzeentch, spell familiar, armour of change (enchanted shield and collar of Khorne), bloodskull amulet. (general) 390
Wrackspew, level 1 sorceror of Nurgle, forbidden puppet, chariot 240
Quakegrim, level 1 sorceror of Nurgle, power familiar, chariot, 230
Franz Abendroth, level 2 sorceror of slaanesh, book of secrets, warrior familiar,steed of slaanesh 195 points


22 Norse levy GW (Khorne marauders), FC 160
3*5 warhounds 90
14 Chosen guard, FC, shields, warbanner (slaanesh warriors) 289
5 Marauder horsemen, flails 75


6 Knights of fury (Khorne marked) 230


Hellcannon 205
5 DOW heavy cavalry, barding 105
(partially to represent the losses and replacement by mercenaries in the fluff, partly because I wanted a unit with a decent save to run at gunlines.war machines/archers, wizard hunt, to threaten with on a refused flank or to boost with hysterical frenzy. I kind of miss the two wave attack as well.

PD: 12
DD: 7
Models: 75


I’ve done turn by turn maps showing the armies post movement phase with templates showing hits from spells/shooting.

You can see the deployment of both armies:


Forest on the right, very difficult rocky terrain (but with LOS) on the left- the 40k players on the other table had taken all the other forests in the shop :)
DOW- DOW heavy cavalry
N/C- chariots (N has the power familiar, C has the puppet)
DO- dragon ogres
Wa/War- chaos warriors
Mar/Ma- Marauders
Knights- knights
Dogs- chaos hounds
SL- slaaneshi sorcerer in warrior unit
Horse- horsemen

I got first turn
For spells both lords got 1,2,3,4,6 (ideal spells) and his lord also got fireball from the book. My nurgle level 1s took buboes, his nurgle took buboes and plague squall. His Tzeentch level 2’s both had flickering fire and one had transmorgrification, the other had the 5th spell. My slaanesh sorcerer got hysterical frenzy, lash and hand of death with the book.

Mindwarper Turn 1-
The hellcannon passes its test and moves up 8”. Left flank cavalry move up 10-12” to be just outside hellcannon charge range. Far left dogs move to the left to annoy the dragon ogres if they go for a flanking move. DOW heavy cavalrymove 13” and wheel to face the marauders slightly. Infantry and chariots move up full allowance. Marauder horsemen zoom round the forest hoping for a flank charge on the knights or the opportunity to redirect. Magic put one wound on his nurgle sorcerer (he rolled double 1’s to dispel), flickering fire did 2S2 hits to the hellcannon (nothing), other spells were dispelled then I rolled a miscast on 3 dice for pandemonium, after both puppets he used it to cast gateway on my warriors which I dispelled.


Little Sun Turn 1

His hounds on my right charge my hounds, his hounds on the left move up to block my hounds and knights. His dragon ogres move towards the centre. His infantry shuffles up a bit and the hellcannon doesn’t move. The spawn moves towards my horsemen 6”. Magic sees him cast flickering fire (6 S6 hits), D6 S4 magic missile, flickering fire and buboes on the DOW cavalry killing 4. They subsequently panicked and could not rally (only 1 left). Plague squall hit the marauders and killed 1 or 2. He cast pandemonium and I rolled double 1’s to dispel. His lord then miscast, he moved the result from 6 to 8 I moved it to 10 and his lord took a wound and lost a magic level. In combat his hounds killed 2 of mine, I killed none, broke and got away. His hounds elected to stop 1” in front of my hellcannon.
- despite their early demise I was actually quite happy with the DOW cavalry they absorbed a lot of his spells this turn.


Mindwarper Turn 2

The hellcannon fails its test, and charges 8” at the hounds who flee. I charge his hounds on the left with mine, he flees and I redirect into his khorne marauder cavalry hoping to knock one or two off. The fleeing hounds rally on the general’s leadership. The slaanesh sorcerer moves 20” out of his unit to prevent the dragon ogres charging the knights (and if they charge him and he flees they will be in the very difficult terrain). Marauders move up full rate, khorne knights move forward and turn slightly. Warriors reformed to 5 wide and shuffled forward a bit. Chariots move about a bit. In magic I tried to cast everything on 1 die so most of it failed, the rest was dispelled except pandemonium (he rolled double 1’s to dispel). In combat the hounds killed a single horsemen and were wiped out in return.
- Not a lot from magic there but getting off pandemonium was pretty important. I hadn’t considered the fact that the spawn would prevent his knights from charging anything so moving the horsemen up to bait them was a mistake


Little Sun Turn 2

His dragon ogres charged my slaaneshi sorcerer who fled leaving the dragon ogres 0.5 inches into very difficult terrain. His horsemen charged the lefthand chariot which fled through the rallied dogs killing 2 and leaving one (passed panic). The spawn charged the horsemen who fled, the knights shuffled a bit. His infantry moved back 2”. The hellcannon moves up to prevent me from pursuing/overrunning into his warriors with the knights. In magic he miscast twice (one on double 6, once on double 1s) and after puppeting both were moved to 10 so his sorcerer lord was now level 1 although he saved 1 wound with the 6+ Tzeentch ward leaving the sorcerer lord on 1 wound, he managed to kill one Khorne knight with flickering fire (6 S4 hits) In shooting the hellcannon scattered on the khorne knights, hit two but failed to wound.


Mindwarper Turn 3

The hellcannon charged the hounds (fled) EITW into the marauders (fled, but he should have held with them) and then EITW into the warriors (11.5”, just within range). The Khorne knights charged the flank of the khorne horsemen. The nurgle chariot failed to rally and ran off the board. The slaaneshi sorcerer rallied and rejoined the warriors. The horsemen rallied in the forest and moved out of the forest. Infantry move up, the marauders towards the dragon ogres. The lone hound moves up to redirect his Khorne knights and hopefully preventing a charge on the nurgle chariot which moved more centrally. Magic saw a flickering fire cause 2 wounds to the hellcannon, a D6S4 magic missile do nothing to it, several spelled dispelled but I had 5 dice to his 4 left and rolled IF for infernal gateway on the khorne knights killing all of them with 7 S9 hits (result!). In combat the khorne knights wipe out the horsemen and overrun into the hellcannon. The hellcannon directs all 5 attacks against the nurgle sorcerer and kills him, taking 1 wound in return.


Little Sun Turn 3

All his fleeing units rally. The spawn charges the horsemen again who flee again. The dragon ogres turn, get out of the very difficult terrain and wheel so they can see the knights. Magic is all dispelled this turn I think since he had few spells available since all his sorcerors were in combat. In combat my hellcannon put a wound on the unmounted Tzeentch level two,and took a wound in return but saved it. In the other combat my knights killed the hellcannon and crew and overran into the warrior combat.


Mindwarper Turn 4

The chariot charges the warriors but it’s out by 1.5” so moves up 7”. The marauders charge the flank of the dragon ogres (hold) and my left hand hounds charge his in the flank (they flee and the hounds stop 1” in front of the dragon ogres). Magic saw me kill 4 marauders with magic missiles and little else due to lack of targets. In combat the dragon ogres took 2 wounds, caused 2 back failed their insane courage test and fled into the hounds and died. The marauders pursued most of the way through the very difficult terrain. In the other combat my knights put 1 wound on the sorcerer lord killing them but do nothing with the rest of their attacks. The hellcannon takes 2 wounds but saves them both and then kills both of the remaining Tzeentch sorcerors. I lose combat on the musician, knights lose frenzy but pass their break test.


Little sun calls the game there, massacre to Mindwarper’s forces!

Post game thoughts

MVP unit- my hellcannon! (at last!)- netted 600 points worth of sorcerors and collapsed his centre right and stuck his warriors in place and denied him most of his spells. Failed one bound test and wisely didn't try to shoot :)

The DOW horsemen took a lot of punishment first turn- with his sorcerors getting +2 to cast and 14Pd to throw around they were threatening enough to draw a fair bit of fire early game- especially with my first turn magic doing little- far better than all that magic getting thrown at the Khorne knights or hellcannon. I think placing his dragon ogres on the flank was a definite mistake, since it took them out of the game for a crucial turn, although to be fair I don’t think he foresaw the use of the slaaneshi sorcerer moving 20” from midfield out to block their charge. My hellcannon was very useful this turn, killing mages and preventing him from casting the majority of his spells effectively neutering his magic. He was unfortunate to miscast twice with his lord second turn but with 1/6 miscast chance even casting spells on 2 dice is risky but passing the ward at least kept his lord in the game a bit longer.

A bigger mistake was not holding with the slaaneshi marauders against the hellcannon- I think he thought the warriors were out of range (and EITW is still an awkward bugger of a rule). It greatly reduced his magic third round and had he held with the marauders the hellcannon could not have pursued into the warriors anyway- he would have still had 11PD to through about that turn instead of 4/5 on poor spells.

Running the DOW cavalry in front of the warriors is something I’ll do again- they are just tempting enough for the opponent to shoot at or charge (when they can flee and leave the opponent facing the warrior block). The chariots did little this game, one buboes being the sum total but their presence forced him to react and I was glad they were there- even when one had fled off the board I still had a fairly solid battleline- two big units of infantry supported by the chariot(s) and the slaaneshi sorcerer to zip around and bait/redirect if need be. I like having the two-wave attack going again.

This is apparently the first time he has tried this list (last week apparently he beat a star dragon list with an archaon list), the armour of morrslieb displayed its serious drawback (magic attacks, in this case from the chaos knights meaning no 3+ ward) although the skull of katam was quite effective- made things much harder to dispel and meant almost all his low level spells could be cast quite comfortably. Killing his knights with gateway was a stroke of luck but the dog/chariot/slaanesh sorcerer could have kept them out of the game easily enough anyway.

My biggest mistake was with the horsemen, wasting them by not considering the spawn’s problematic movement (moving in compulsory movement sucks) and the spawn managed to drive the horsemen off the board as a result.

I was fairly luck with saves this battle as well- the DOW cavalry passed quite a few before dying and the hellcannon passed a couple of 5+ saves and only failed one.

The slaaneshi sorcerer also proved very handy to have around again, Franz is definitely looking good in his master’s eyes now.

Mindwarper breathed deeply of the misty dusk air. His head was swirling with power- his own and the power he had leeched from the fallen master sorcerer. The daemon bound in the fallen hellcannon raged and screamed in it’s destroyed prison of flesh and metal.
“Hand me the sword Franz”
Franz wordlessly passed the huge black-iron weapon, twenty hand spans in length to his master. Mindwarper took the blade in both hands and began an incantation, each syllable forming on the blade as an angular blue rune, as the spell continued the bound daemon in the hellcannon screamed and raged with terrifying ferocity as it was pulled from the cannon towards the iron blade, a red translucent figure twelve feet tall at the shoulder. One of it’s huge limbs struck out at Mindwarper with enough force to shatter a wall, it’s talons suddenly halting a mere hand span from his face, stopped by an invisible force. The taloned limb was suddenly pulled towards the black iron blade like iron to a lodestone. The daemon shrieked and gibbered as it seemed to leak into the blade, diminishing in size and losing solidity until, with a final whimper, it was completely sucked into the huge sword. Mindwarper uttered a final word and a last angular rune formed at the tip of the blade.
“It is a mighty weapon Master, your enemies will tremble to face it in battle” gloated Franz,
“Ahh, no you misunderstand Franz, this blade is not for me to carry to battle. Loring!”
Loring the champion of Mindwarper’s chosen guard approached and kneeled before his master silently.
“Loring you will choose two of the chosen guard and take this blade to the border princes, to the mountains North of Akendorf, there you will find a doombull named Kharad Bloodsplatter, you will give the blade to him, as you get closer the blade will guide you Loring, but I trust you will accomplish this mission swiftly”.
“Your will my lord” said Loring, already rising with the blade.
“But master, why part with such a blade after creating it” queried Franz.
“Simply another long term scheme, Franz, simply another long term scheme…”

27-07-2009, 14:58
- corrected the incorrect diagram for turn 3, whoops :)

27-07-2009, 15:36
I like the fluff (and the battle report) :) Will you be running a Doombull BoC list or will we have to wait and see? ;)

28-07-2009, 05:50
Cheers, might be running a BOC list occasionally- Craig has asked for me to play either O&G or beastmen against him rather than chaos/lizards so I told him I'd pop the BOC out as a surprise on one of our next three battles. BOC in their current state aren't much fun for building interesting lists but will be fun to play for a change.

Also he's planning to play every single warhammer race at least once before picking one, and hopefully the border princes will give a fair bit of fluff justification for some of them :)

28-07-2009, 07:53
Congratulations on the result, interesting army lsit you had there. I think Boc are a good chocie to go if you want to give him a more varied experience, though I concede they have very few 'power builds' mind thats not that much difference to WoC ;)

28-07-2009, 13:55
I think BOC are still decent enough as an army- Doombull lists are fairly solid and the Tzeentch superherd can still work, the issue is such a lack of half decent items and so many units gone that actually twiddling with the list is less fun. My list will probably be something like 81% Core troops :)

30-07-2009, 16:51
Nice bat rep there, although I'm going to do my usual thing and ***** on your victory by pointing out that you cheated by moving the Hellcannon up 8" in turn 1 (It can march 6" max but charges 12"), and given that you were only just in on the Warriors and it helped you kill an enemy Sorcerer, it should've have won you the game. Naughty naughty, you filthy Gateway spammer ;)

But then I'm just bitter cos in my 3-game tournament my Hellcannon got to fire 4-5 times across 3 games :(

31-07-2009, 09:37
Nice bat rep there, although I'm going to do my usual thing and ***** on your victory by pointing out that you cheated by moving the Hellcannon up 8" in turn 1 (It can march 6" max but charges 12"), and given that you were only just in on the Warriors and it helped you kill an enemy Sorcerer, it should've have won you the game. Naughty naughty, you filthy Gateway spammer ;)

But then I'm just bitter cos in my 3-game tournament my Hellcannon got to fire 4-5 times across 3 games :(

Actually the hellcannon can move up to 9-12" first turn easily (depending on how it wheels and base size), realising this is one of the things that made me add it to my list. The crewmen move at a maximum of 6" march, the cannon can march up to 12" as long as it ends the turn within 1" of the crew. As long as no model in the unit exceeds its maximum move you are golden. I've attached two piccies to this post to show what I mean- in this case the first turn move is straight forward. If the hellcannon moved left or right it could get a full 12". It makes the hellcannon a fair bit more worthwhile when you are using it to attack although second turn you can only move 6" forward (but could move the cannon 8/9" if it is going to the left or right) The initial impetus means it can charge 3rd turn as opposed to 4th against an unmoving opponent line. (9"+6"+12" instead of 6"+6"+6"+12"). It also the means the hellcannon can have s bit of surprising speed for crossing the length of the table- for one turn at least.

But do keep an eye on me, I miss things quite a bit. As for the hellcannon, it seems to much better for me when it isn't firing at all :)

Incidentally you can also have you chaos chariots (or anything that pivots) get more than 7" move (8" in the case of WOC chariots) by deploying them side on then pivoting them (around the centre of the base which typically means an extra 1" forward on a chariot base). Not that useful. You can also do the same with stegadons (13" first turn move) which can be quite handy since it could mean a second turn charge once in a while :) Side on can be handy for space sometimes and to reduce the chance of a cannonball hit somewhat.

Elazar The Glorified
31-07-2009, 09:52
Actually the hellcannon can move up to 9-12" first turn easily (depending on how it wheels and base size), realising this is one of the things that made me add it to my list. The crewmen move at a maximum of 6" march, the cannon can march up to 12" as long as it ends the turn within 1" of the crew. As long as no model in the unit exceeds its maximum move you are golden. I've attached two piccies to this post to show what I mean- in this case the first turn move is straight forward. If the hellcannon moved left or right it could get a full 12"

But so keep an eye on me, I miss things quite a bit. As for the hellcannon, it seems to much better for me when it isn't firing at all :)

I never would have thought of that, kind of overlooked the fact that it's a skirmisher as such so could get away with that. Very interesting, I have two in my tournament army for Sunday and they just became that little bit more useful! :D

31-07-2009, 10:12
Glad to be of help, any chance you will post the report?
What list will you be taking?

I've also considered using this trick for hiding the hellcannon first turn from cannons/ war machines- put the hellcannon on the side of the forest away from the hill with the war machines with all the crew at full skirmish width to the side you want to go to- hellcannon can clear the forest and still get a forward movement boost.

Not so useful for my army though with the two chariots having a cannon target on them :)

Elazar The Glorified
31-07-2009, 10:40
I'll probably post a small report in my project log or at the very least on my blog. Not sure how in depth it'll be, certainly won't be as good as your battle reports! :)

I'm sticking with my mono-Slaanesh theme for my army so it's maybe slightly handicapped and the list is a little different from what I'd normally play but here's a quick run down.

Daemon Prince
Level 4 Wizard
Mark of Slaanesh
Diabolic Splendour
Fury of the Blood God

Exalted Hero
Mark of Slaanesh
Steed of Slaanesh
Collar of Khorne
Bloodcurdling Roar

Level 2 Wizard
Mark of Slaanesh
Infernal Puppet
Talisman of Protection
Conjoined Homunculus

10 Warriors
Mark of Slaanesh
Full Command
Additional Hand Weapons
Rapturous Standard

10 Warriors
Mark of Slaanesh
Full Command
Great Weapons

5 Marauder Horsemen
Mark of Slaanesh
Throwing Axes

5 Warhounds

5 Warhounds

6 Chaos Knights
Mark of Slaanesh
Musician & Standard Bearer
Blasted Standard



Total = 2250 on the nose.

It's quite a compact list and in the practice games I've had mixed results. However, when I became a lot more aggressive with my deployment and use of the Hellcannons I noticed a marked improvement on the army's performance. The idea is the Daemon Prince is a terror bomb (particularly with the -1 Ld from Diabolic Splendour) and with the MoS there's always the chance of rolling Hellshriek as well which against non-ItP armies is absolutely devastating!
The Exalted Hero on Steed of Slaanesh is my Warmachine, Chariot, Character hunter. His speed means he gets to most things and I've noticed a lot of people aren't aware of his 20" charge, particularly when he deploys in a unit of Marauder Horsemen. He was very instrumental in a game against High Elves where he took out Teclis hiding in a unit whilst one of the Hellcannons and the Daemon Prince took out the Bolt Throwers. Bloodcurdling Roar is legendary as well if he gets in behind units of Knights etc with the Steed's Fast Cavalry rule!
The level 2 Sorcerer is there to add a little bit more magic support and most importantly to make use of the Infernal Puppet for when that inevitable Missfire takes place!

Interesting idea about hiding the Hellcannon but like you say, I think one of the biggest advantages of the Hellcannon is it gives your opponent something to be scared of and throw away his shooting at. Particularly useful when you have chariots as you say! :D

31-07-2009, 10:58
Certainly a bit different, slaanesh is actually a very nice lore, and isn't even that bad against ITP armies- the spell I'd really miss compared to Tzeentch is pandemonium. I take it the slaaneshi level 2 is on foot with talisman rather than on a steed due to the models you have? Personally I'd try to find the points to boost the warriors without sorceror by one to 11 for the rank bonus, but at 2250 points on the nose its hard to fine leeway.

Best of luck for the tourney!

Incidentally I can't seem to see any of the photo's in your painting log, maybe its my problem though :(

Elazar The Glorified
31-07-2009, 11:28
It's the only thing I can't make my mind up on. Whether to take the talisman or the steed. I know which ever I pick it'll come back to haunt me. Yeah the warrior blocks are slightly smaller than I'd normally have them too but again trying to squeeze in as much as I can. Will have to hope it's not those factors that see me slip up! :D
Not sure why that is, they're displaying ok for me... :wtf:

31-07-2009, 11:32
I'd go the steed- the +2AS, extra S4 attack, better move rate if he wants to switch regiment (and the fact as US2 he can be used to redirect a unit in an emergency unlike a US1 model) and takes up the space of two warriors essentially making the unit 2*6 is better than a 6+ ward generally.

Problem is its 16 points and the talisman is 15 and you are bang on the money so...

Still you are right, murphy's law will probably come into play regardless which one you go for ;)

Elazar The Glorified
31-07-2009, 11:36
That's a good point damn that extra point. I guess I could go for Halberds instead of GWs on the other Warrior unit to free up some points...

31-07-2009, 13:43
Actually the hellcannon can move up to 9-12" first turn easily (depending on how it wheels and base size), realising this is one of the things that made me add it to my list. The crewmen move at a maximum of 6" march, the cannon can march up to 12" as long as it ends the turn within 1" of the crew. As long as no model in the unit exceeds its maximum move you are golden. I've attached two piccies to this post to show what I mean- in this case the first turn move is straight forward. If the hellcannon moved left or right it could get a full 12". It makes the hellcannon a fair bit more worthwhile when you are using it to attack although second turn you can only move 6" forward (but could move the cannon 8/9" if it is going to the left or right) The initial impetus means it can charge 3rd turn as opposed to 4th against an unmoving opponent line. (9"+6"+12" instead of 6"+6"+6"+12"). It also the means the hellcannon can have s bit of surprising speed for crossing the length of the table- for one turn at least.

Good theory but units must move at the rate of the slowest model, so the Hellcannon itself can only march move 6" tops as long as crew are alive...

Incidentally you can also have you chaos chariots (or anything that pivots) get more than 7" move (8" in the case of WOC chariots) by deploying them side on then pivoting them (around the centre of the base which typically means an extra 1" forward on a chariot base). Not that useful. You can also do the same with stegadons (13" first turn move) which can be quite handy since it could mean a second turn charge once in a while :) Side on can be handy for space sometimes and to reduce the chance of a cannonball hit somewhat.

Yep this is a trick I'm well aware of, although I've had opponents act like it's proper rules lawyering. Mainly because I've usually done it with my Black Coach, which is on an especially long base, but it makes turn 2 charges possible, which is nice. Plus very helpful if there's cannons, makes them less likely to hit (Around 95% as opposed to 99% with my opponents' dice!).

31-07-2009, 14:02
I've asked about on other forums and whilst 6th edition had that rule, I don't think 7th has (and can't find it in the rulebook). In the section on characters its states that a characters movement is dictated by the unit as a whole. In7th the only rule that seems to apply is that models can never exceed their maximum M distance.

31-07-2009, 17:25
I'd raise an eyebrow at the pivot trick ;)

31-07-2009, 19:11
Must practise my eyebrow raising for our next game K ;)

It's quite hard to just raise one sometimes.

31-07-2009, 23:42
Get tips from roger moore ;)

Sarah S
02-08-2009, 05:25
Good theory but units must move at the rate of the slowest model, so the Hellcannon itself can only march move 6" tops as long as crew are alive...

This is not true. To rebut my statement, please provide a page reference. ;)

02-08-2009, 13:00
Plus very helpful if there's cannons, makes them less likely to hit (Around 95% as opposed to 99% with my opponents' dice!).

@EvC ---Im having a hard time visualizing why this is so, something to do with the bounce? I'd like to learn more....!:)

I need to pull this trick off with my steg sometime.

02-08-2009, 13:51
@EvC ---Im having a hard time visualizing why this is so, something to do with the bounce? I'd like to learn more....!:)

I need to pull this trick off with my steg sometime.

Its simply a matter of the width of the base being 50mm wide so turning side on the cannonball only has a 50mm wide target to bounce towards as opposed to a 100mm one if you are head on to the cannons.

@Sarah S, I don't think the rule EVC refers to exists any more.

I raised this issue on COTEC a few months and have raised it again on warhammer.org.uk just to be sure, but the extra hellcannon movement seems to be legitimate.

03-08-2009, 16:49
I've asked about on other forums and whilst 6th edition had that rule, I don't think 7th has (and can't find it in the rulebook). In the section on characters its states that a characters movement is dictated by the unit as a whole. In7th the only rule that seems to apply is that models can never exceed their maximum M distance.

Ahh, fair enough. I'd probably take the character thing as precedent (lots of other things do even when they are only strictly found in the character section) but I shall bear this in mind. It's not like it's a massive exploit or anything :)

07-08-2009, 11:28
Ahh, fair enough. I'd probably take the character thing as precedent (lots of other things do even when they are only strictly found in the character section) but I shall bear this in mind. It's not like it's a massive exploit or anything :)

Indeed, handy though, makes a big difference to the viability of the hellcannon in my list I think. Anyway next battle will be this sunday against bretonnians. No idea what Craig's taking apart from lots of knights (hardly a surprise :) ).

Should be a fun game, I like playing against mobile armies with my list since it's quite slow, so the more practice the better.

It seems the group will also be starting up mordheim, I'll be taking chaos of course, ummed and ahhed over carnival or possessed by have decided on the former so I can actually use some of the minis from my retired daemon army and it looks like they'll be quite fun- unlike the possessed at least they can maybe have some shooting potential at some point. I've got a mini for the carnival master (top left guy on this page http://www.solegends.com/citcat912/c20266rcchnurgle.htm ) got nurglings and plaguebearers, marauders for brutes and I'll be digging through my bits box to make some tainted ones/brethren.

Deliberately avoiding nurgle's rot since apparently its pretty powerful/annoying/unfair to other players:

Carnival master, Sword, free dagger (will get a club/hammer to represent his staff when I have the money) 80
Brute, two handed weapon 75
Brute, two handed weapon 75
Tainted one, mark of nurgle, hammer, free dagger 63
Tainted one, mark of nurgle, hammer, free dagger 63
Heroes:356 GC

Brethren, hammer, free dagger 28
Brethren, hammer, free dagger 28
Brethren, hammer, free dagger 28

(three groups of one to begin with in the hope of getting lads got talent/good advances then I can boost the group with a useful advance later)

2 Nurglings 30
2 Nurglings 30
- cheap fodder and to allow me to do a runner early if need be.

Total 500gc (no extra gold)
5 heroes
7 henchmen
rout point:3 dead (was tempted to get another nurgling for the rout tests but what the hell)
Won't roll for Carnival master's spell until other players are present and will offer to re-roll if he gets nurgle's rot.

10-08-2009, 18:15
Was due to play the local DE player on sunday (a match I was very much looking forward too since he has the usual tasty goodies- khaleth, hotek, hydra, BG loaded with characters (incl a lord with POS and hydra blade for mincing chaos knights). We had set everything up when he got a phone call and had to leave so I ended up playing one of the new guys at the store with his orcs and goblins at 1500 points. I cut things here and there to get my 2250 list down to 1500

I had:
Sorceror of Tzeentch, level 2, bloodskull amulet
Sorceror of nurgle, level 2, power familiar, chariot
Sorceror of nurgle, level 2, book, chariot
11 Chaos warriors, FC:war banner
21 Khorne marauders, champ,
5 dogs
6 Khorne Knights

He had:
Black orc boss (general)
level 2 Savage orc shaman with 2 scrolls
Level 2 NG shaman with 2 powerstones and a mushroom
20 NG with shield and spear, standard and 3 fanatics *2
20 NG archers (gobbo shaman here)
13 black orcs with FC and shields (both orc characters here)
2 Bolt throwers
1 Doom diver
Rock Lobber

No diagrams I'm afraid since the details are a bit fuzzy. I won the roll to go first.


No turn by turn diagrams this time I'm afraid since my memory is a bit fuzzy.

Plan on the left was to take out the wolf riders with missiles, pop the fanatics with hounds, try to cut down some goblins with any knights if they survived the doomdiver, bolt throwers, fanatic and stone thrower (I always expect my knights to die pretty early) and mop up the goblins with the marauders.

Main attack was on the right since he had half his points in one unit, I planned to engage his black orcs and characters with my warriors after whittling them down and with a combo chariot charge- as I approached I would send one chariot wider and wider on the flank to get a flank charge in and break ranks.

Chaos Turn 1

Everything moved up, buboes was dispelled (once with scroll) flickering fire did 3 S2 hits and killed a wolf rider. Failed to cast pandemonium on 3 dice. Failed to cast fireball on 1 die.

O&G Turn 1

Both units of night goblins with spears failed animosity, as did one of his wolf rider units. The other unit moved up to bait the marauders. Magic saw him use a power stone and mushroom and move the right hand gobbo spears up and released 3 fanatics- the first 2 rolled 11 and went through both knights and hounds. The other one fell short. 4 knights and 4 hounds died. Hounds passed panic on general's Ld. He also eadbutted a wound off my tzeentch sorceror. In shooting a bolt thrower dropped another knight leaving 1. The rest of his stuff scattered/failed to hit.

Chaos turn 2

The marauders and Khorne knight charged the wolf riders who fled. Hound charged the gobbo archers with shaman Marauders stood on a fanatic and 7 died. The knight enemy in the wayed into the night gobbo archers successfully threading its way between fanatics. The fleeing wolves panicked the other wolves and the bolt thrower and the BT fled off the table. Warriors moved up, chariots continued to move both forward and to his flank. Magic saw me draw his second scroll with buboes, put a wound on the orc shaman with buboes, panic the second wolf riders and cast pandemonium. In combat the chaos knight beat the shaman to a bloody pulp and the steed and hound killed another 2. I lost combat by 1 (due to the standard) and the chaos knight broke and ran while the hound passed its break test (on general's Ld8)

Orc Turn 2

His black orcs shuffle slightly and the right hand spears bravely (suicidally?) towards my warriors. Magic is mostly dispelled. The hound dies in combat with the gobbo archers.

Chaos Turn 3

The marauders move up towards his goblins. Chaos warriors move towards his gobbo spears and the chariots elect to move rather than charge to get a better position for the combo charge. Magic saw his orc shaman buboed to death and 5 black orcs killed by flickering fire (6 S7).

O&G Turn 4

The left hand gobbo spears charge my marauders, the right hand ones charge my warriors. Shooting sees the rock lobber hit my flanking chariot with a direct hit. The S10 hit wounds the sorceror and splats him (6 wounds) whilst the S5 hit (come to think of it its should be S4) put 2 wounds on the chariot. In combat both units of goblins ar minced and run down.

Chaos Turn 4

I combo charge his black orcs who can't flee because the chariots are too close (actually he fled and was run down but I allowed him to take back the flee move and hold for at least a chance to do something). The black orcs are butchered despite the poor impact hits (rolled a 1 for both chariots), the boss takes a wound from the bloodskull amulet but knocks the last wound off my sorceror in return, killing my general. The black orcs flee and are run down.

O&G Turn 4

He shoots at my stuff to little avail so we call the game there since next turn all his artillery would be taken out by my chariots.

He was a great opponent, and didn't care about winning or losing, just about getting stuck in (a true greenskin) and learning through mistakes. I gave him a few suggestions for his list and watched the other game between little Sun (my regular WOC opponent) and a new player with his HE army. Despite starting earlier they were still on turn 2 (since this was the new guy's first game so there was a lot of explanation going on). After they finished we had 2 6 player test games of mordheim to get everyone used to the rules, and I sent out the mordheim rules and warband info to the different players- looks like the group will have 2 possessed warbands, 1 carnival of chaos, 1 orcs and goblins and maybe 1 dwarf.

Tomorrow I'll try to get in a game of warhammer against little Sun (with maps this time I promise) and hopefully a couple of games of mordheim. I think its about time I lost a game to little Sun, he's used archaon in a couple of battles recently (including beating a star dragon list with him) and I reckon archaon is pretty handy against WOC with 10A allowing no armour saves- especially an issue since my sorceror lord's main protection is the 1+ armour save. Should be fun.

Its a real shame I'm the only remaining lizard player though, I'd like to try out a few more games against the slann+engines list- it's a really hard list to crack for WOC but that makes it more fun :)

10-08-2009, 18:49
Thanks for the report, I'm a bit baffled by an orc and goblin list with no orcs in but it seems like he was a fun guy to play against :D

10-08-2009, 19:22
I think the battle for skull pass box set is to blame :)

10-08-2009, 20:01
Fair play I had similar issues and still use too many gobbos with shortbows :D He needs da orks though!

12-08-2009, 17:19
Today I played a game against Yifei, the local DE player, again a very pleasant and friendly gentleman- it seems our group is blessed compared to some of the horror stories you get on warseer and the opponents faced.

“West my lord?” queried Franz
“Indeed Franz, Reiner spotted a Black Ark limping towards the empire past the isle of wights- it was clearly worse for wear, and will doubtless need to dock for repairs somewhere in the wasteland- the opportunity to seize an ark, the mightiest warships of all can not be allowed to slip- no matter how thin the chance of success.”
“Surely it will be well defended.”
“Of course, but the libraries of the ark alone are worth the risk. Franz, I want you to ride with the vanguard to clear the road to ensure a clear trail for the infantry”
“Yes my lord”

(Sorry bit too much work on these days for lengthy fluff)

Dreadlord, hydra blade, potion of strength, pendant of khaleth, probably heavy armour
Hag with cauldron
Bsb with GW, ring of hotek, maybe something else (I’d guess armour of darkness)
Level 1 sorceror, 2 scrolls

10 Repeater crossbowmen, musician
10 repeater crossbowmen, musician
5 dark riders, rxbs, musician

20 black guard, full command, ASF banner, champ with soul render
6 cold one knights, naked
Cold one chariot
14 executioners, standard: banner of cold blood


My list:

Mindwarper, level 4 sorceror of Tzeentch, spell familiar, armour of change (enchanted shield and collar of Khorne), bloodskull amulet. (general) 390
Wrackspew, level 1 sorceror of Nurgle, forbidden puppet, chariot 240
Quakegrim, level 1 sorceror of Nurgle, power familiar, chariot, 230
Franz Abendroth, level 2 sorceror of slaanesh, book of secrets, warrior familiar,steed of slaanesh 195 points

15 chosen guard (Chaos warriors, slaanesh), FC: war banner
20 Khorne marauders, champ, musician
5 Marauder horsemen, flails, musician
3*5 hounds

6 knights of fury (Khorne)

5 DOW heavy cavalry

The plan:

Obviously I had nothing in my list that could take on his super unit and would struggle against the hydra if it got killing blow and might kill my general so I planned to play a refused flank- refusing the flank with the black guard + hydra with my semi-dangerous units, centre held by the unbreakable hell cannon. This would also hopefully keep my magic away from the silly ring. If I could buboes the bsb ringbearer I would, otherwise I’d try to pull the blackguard off with the DOW or flank with the hellcannon.

There was little terrain (a hill on each side and a forest) since I wanted as little as possible and passed as soon as I could. I won the roll for side (which were symmetrical anyway).

Flane template- hydra breath
Small fireball- magic or shooting damage
Big fireball- gateway


I deployed first. His blackguard were deployed behind the RXBs to avoid the bsb being buboed to death (the other WOC player plays 4 sorcerors in one unit with skull of katam against DE).

The little red square near his deployment line is the sorceress (I think only superman can see the s :) )


I finished deployment first and won the roll for first turn.

WOC Turn 1

Hellcannon passes its test. Dogs and knights move up full speed. DOW cavalry move up 9” to be out of charge range of his cavalry whilst being moderately threatening. Hellcannon moved up to be more central for annoying and to threaten the black guard with a flank charge at some point. Right flank moves up more or less full speed. I moved the horsemen over to the left in order to occupy his dark riders and with a very faint hope of beating the dark riders and going after the sorceress. The marauders move slightly since I’m hoping to hold them back as a threat for the black guard to deal with. In magic I cast titillating delusions on his right hand crossbows since I thought if he moved his executioners back I might be out of charge range and would have to go in against the other RXB and black guard (and be butchered in short order). I also gatewayed titillated unit in the hope of drawing a scroll (he didn’t fall for it) and 6 died. The rest of magic was out of range or dispelled.


DE Turn 1

Stupidity passed. The cauldron gives the black guard +1A. The left hand RXBs wheel towards my right flank with the black guard just behind them. Hydra moves up to flame some stuff. Cold ones and chariot move up cautiously. The executioners move back 2.5”Magic saw him cast an IF fireball on dogs 1, killing 1. The hydra flamed two DOW heavy cavalry to death. The dark riders shot down 1 marauder horsemen in a display of poor rolling. Both RBTs single shotted the Khorne knights one missed and one killed a knight.


WOC Turn 2

Hounds 2 charge the flank of the RXBs in front of the black guard who flee and the dogs stop 1” from the black guard. The DOW cavalry charge the flank of the black guard. The Khorne knights (who were just over 14” from the executioners) and one chariot combo charge the 4 RXBs who are being titillated. The marauder horsemen charge the dark riders, 3 are killed by stand and shoot and I fail both Ld7 panic tests and the lone horseman runs off never to return. Hellcannon moves more centrally and the warriors move up and wheel a bit in order to be able to see the cold one knights. The marauders move up a bit to threaten the flank of the black guard if DOW cavalry survive to lead them off and to dare the hydra into charging them. In magic flickering fire does 3 S2 hits to the cold one knights and one falls to the tiny flames. Titillating delusions miscast and the S2 hit put a wound on the slaanesh mage, both crew members of the left hand RBT are buboed to death. Gateway on the executioners also draws a scroll. In combat the DOW cavalry roll well for saves and only one dies they then all roll 1’s and 2’s to hit. They flee and escape while the black guard are forced to pursue- first into the hounds (who fled but I would probably have been better holding with them to waste another turn of the black guard and get the flank charge with the marauders). The khorne knights and chariot obliterate the RXBs and the knights overrun an excessive 15” giving up their flank to the RBT whilst being unable to see it to charge. The chariot can just about see one of the crew from the RBT.


DE Turn 2

Stupidity is passed. The cold one chrariot charged hounds 3 who held (I was hoping the chariot would overrun into the warriors and get autopopped). Cauldron gives +1A to black guard unit. The RXB’s rally. The dark riders move to the other side of the forest and annihilate hounds 1. The hydra moves to flame dogs 2 killing 3. Black guard turn to face the marauders. The RBT flank shoots the khorne knights but only kills 1. The chariot wipes out the hounds but rolls very low for overrun.



One chariot and the slaanesh mage charge the rxbs (he can’t stand and shoot since the sorcerer is just under 10: away), the other chariot charges the RBT. The hellcannon charged the cold one knights who fled. This led to a situation where for the hellcannon to move in a straight line at the knights it would clip the cold one chariot (which initially it could not see).
*There was a bit of confusion here so I asked the other players and the consensus was the hellcannon would EITW on the chariot- opinions welcome.*
The chariot didn’t flee far enough and was caught by the hellcannon which had to move the full12” which meant it charged the RXBs as well. The marauders frenzy charged the black guard. Both the DOW cavalry and the hounds rallied.
I turned the Khorne knights to face the executioners. The warriors shuffled away from the centre of the board. Magic saw me gateway the cold one knights who were now safely out of hotek range and 9S6 hits wiped them out. Other magic was dispelled or failed to cast (I drew his second scroll here with delusions on the executioners). In combat the rxbs lost 9 of their 10 men the last one hit and wounded the slaaneshi sorcerer who thankfully passed his test. The last rxb fled and was run down with the hellcannon overrunning into the cauldron and the slaaneshi sorcerer electing to stop 1” in front of the cauldron. In the blackguard v marauder combat the marauder champion was killed 4 times over by the DE bsb and the lord, champ and other blackguard killed another 17! Marauders (that unit really is silly in terms of its damage output). The marauders fled 4” and the DE pursued 4” and caught them (had been hoping for a bigger pursuit move from the black guard but…). The nurgle chariot wiped out the RBT
* This brings up another question- when a chariot charges a war machine and crew does the war machine also take hits?*
and happily overran off the board and out of LOS of the executioners.


DE Turn 3

The executioners use their cold blooded banner and charge the knights with the cauldron granting them +1A. The march blocked black guard and hydra move towards my warriors. The dark riders move to shoot at the DOW cavalry and annihilate the two brave souls. In combat the executioners wiped out all the khorne knights (no KBs but I rolled poorly for saves) and overran. The hellcannon put a wound on the hag and the hellcannon crew put killed one of the other two guards before being annihilated. The hellcannon became unbreakable on the monster reaction chart after failing its test. (my opponent checked the chart and neglected to mention the fact the hellcannon couldn’t move either).


WOC Turn 4

The nurgle chariot returned and turned to face the executioners. This was actually an error- I had forgotten the rule that executioners are stubborn within 12” of the cauldron and should have moved it closer to prevent them moving within 12” of the cauldron. The other chariot elects not to charge the cauldron (since I wasn’t sure if the hits would be allocated to the cauldron and didn’t want to risk the sorcerer) and instead moved to support the chariot that had returned from off the table. Warriors shuffled back a bit (the 2” retreat). The dogs wheeled and chased after the hydra and blackguard. The slaaneshi sorcerer cast titillating delusions on the black guard (in hindsight illegal since they are ITP, but in the end it had no effect on the battle and was in fact an advanatage to the DE player). All other magic failed since I was out of range for some spells or failed to cast on 1or 2 dice against the hydra due to the ring. In hindsight this turn I should have moved the second chariot to face the black guard since buboes would have been an option on the bsb both this and the next turn. In combat the hellcannon took a wound or two and failed to hurt the hag.


DE Turn 4

The dark riders charge the two annoying hounds who are beaten, flee and are caught. The cauldron gives the executioners a 5+ ward. The hydra trundles forward whilst the BG move towards a titillating delusion. The executioners turned to face the chariot. Magic saw me dispel a fireball at the slaaneshi sorcerer.


WOC Turn 5

The chariot charges the executioners (I felt the other one was out of range so it moved up in support). Warriors shuffle back a bit more. The slaaneshi sorcerer moved up to march block the hydra and black guard. Flickering fire puts two wounds on the hydra. The sorcerer miscasts a fireball at the DE sorceress (double 4) but puppet nudges it to a 12 and the sorceress is burned to death. The Tzeentch lord miscasts twice on 2 dice casts but one is modified to a 6 so no effect and the subsequent S4 hit doesn’t wound him. In combat 5 executioners are killed, are 12.5” away from the cauldron and fail their Ld test on a 7 (they lost by 2). The hellcannon kills the hag and the remaining attendant flees off the table. I elect to pursue with the hellcannon so it won’t have to do a rampage test next turn (in fact of course it couldn’t have moved).


DE Turn 5

Can’t remember what the dark riders did the next two turns but nothing of note, although they probably could have moved to shoot at the slaaneshi sorcerer at long range at least one turn. His units trundle forward a bit, both march blocked by the Slaanesh sorcerer.


WOC Turn 6

Chariot returns and moves 7”. Hellcannon returns and stays put and can’t shoot since it counts as moving. (in fact the monster reaction would have prevented it from moving the previous turn and could have shot last turn- no idea what happens if you misfire and roll rampage on the hellcannon misfire chart after having rolled 3-4 on the monster reaction test- any opinions?). Magic at the hydra is dispelled, fails to cast or miscasts (magic phase ended due to miscast). Forgot to buboe the hydra and couldn’t cast at his bsb since the unit had turned to face the titillating delusion. One more wound would have netted me half VPs for the hydra though (I think).


DE Turn 6

DE player calls the game here (although he could have moved the hydra to flame the sorceror).


We tote up the VPs:
He has his uber unit, the hydra, the dark riders and a table corner.
I have my warriors, both chariots, half points for the slaanesh sorcerer, half points for the hellcannon and the executioner standard.

Minor victory to the forces of chaos!

Post Game Thoughts

Well it was certainly a more tense game than usual, and I really felt I needed to stick to the initial defensive gameplan. I was more or less hoping to squeeze out a draw so quite happy with the win. Mistakes were made on both sides, and one of the good things about writing battle reports is that you can see them in hindsight. The game was slightly marred by a few rules issues that popped up- the hellcannon EITW into the chariot in particular. He was also unhappy with the hellcannon’s initial 8” move, I may just curtail the hellcannon to a 6” move in future just to avoid issues, or I might try out a unit of maneaters instead. I’m considering sending the nurgle sorcerors off on a mission and bringing in the winner of the fighting competition held at the castle. I’m actually really happy with the list as it stands so (perversely) I’m going to fiddle about and see if I can find an alternative list that I also like.

Against the DE black guard + ring bunker my choice of sorcerer lord on foot clearly loses out somewhat in flexibility- against most builds his central positioning and mostly non-LOS spells means it doesn’t matter but against DE with ring and, to some extent, slann with becalming I can see the disk sorcerer being a bit more useful. Still against the vast majority of armies I prefer the sorcerer lord on foot with the bloodskull amulet- it really adds a lot to the unit.

The slaaneshi sorcerer was again extremely useful, having a unit of fast cavalry that is almost untouchable until you decide to use it is very nice indeed, especially when my horsemen seldom make it past my opponent’s first turn.

The ring greatly reduced the effect of my magic early game since I couldn’t risk casting near it, only when the black guard were pulled forward and the cold ones fled was I able to actually use gateway. Even with 2 dice casts the ring is far too effective at stopping magic, 13% per cast chance of miscast adds up rather quickly and the ring basically saved the hydra from dying the last two turns. Even with puppet taking the worst edge off the ring it meant I couldn’t target his main units for most of the game and in the last two turns of two dice casting stopped about 8 PD worth of spells from going through. Going up against the ring is a fun challenge, but really, what were GW thinking.

I think I would be hard pressed to pull the win against Yifei again since the refused flank was a fairly big surprise. With the same number of deployables it will be harder to use next time, although it will depend on who starts deployment first. I think I’d use a similar strategy with lizardmen against dark elves and my lizards can more easily win the deployment war and if the sorceress was foolish enough to run about on her own would handily meat a quick death. Salamander packs are also an ideal unit for flanking DE uber units since you are guaranteed that the skinks will survive (and hopefully flee). Having said that his list could be nastier- shades and harpies instead of the executioners for example.

Anyway there have been about 4 new players starting in the last two weeks (always a good thing), and one who was there yesterday has started lizardmen and asked if I could bring my lizard’s this Sunday to see how to play (or NOT play) with lizards.

12-08-2009, 18:04
I think you can be very happy with a minor win against that list, lots of nasty tools in there.

We played that the chariots impact hits hits the crew only, as the crew line up in front of the war machine to take the charge. Whether thats official I don't know but it made sense to us as the chariot never gets to touch the war machine if you follow me.

12-08-2009, 18:07

He was a great opponent, and didn't care about winning or losing, just about getting stuck in (a true greenskin) and learning through mistakes.

And thats what it is all about right? Look out for this one kerill-I sense the force is strong in him..

14-08-2009, 17:04
Sounds like a great battle against the druchii, well done on the victory! Don't worry about the Hellcannon- you don't take a monster reaction test when the crew die, so it could happily pursue the Hag and keep on moving. You did the eitw stuff right by the sounds of it, but the victims are rarely happy about it. Chariot impacts do affect the warmachines too which sucks a bit, especially when charging the Cauldron...