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soots
30-03-2009, 02:07
I want to use this weapon, but i dont want to tell my opponent I have it.

Are you allowed to write down the nominated target on a peice of paper and then surprise your opponent when you get them into base to base?

knightime98
30-03-2009, 02:17
This has been a vastly argued debate. The way that I do it, is I say to my opponent that such and such is nominated. However, I do not tell him for what reason. I just say that when the time comes you will know why. This only works once until he catches on the 2nd time. Unless of course, you don't make contact the first game. Then you can hold it for the 2nd game in which case then it will be a shocker.

Vice versely, you can write your nominated target on a piece of paper and then reveal it when you use it. This is kind of like the ring of volans in that regard. So, there is no real answer to your question. It really revolves around sportsmanship, honesty AND what your opponent thinks is fair. Would or has your opponent pulled shannanagans on you? .. Well, then I'd return the favor.... You should know how your opponent plays if you've played 3 or more times.. Well that's my 2 cents.

rottahn
30-03-2009, 03:48
ive always played it that you have to nominate it, which means tell your opponent. but i could see where knighttime's train of thought is and can understand it also. however your opponent knows that his character is nominated.... but for what??!! :)

soots
30-03-2009, 04:27
theres about 3 things in the entire game you can nominate opponent characters for before the game. Its VERY VERY obvious, and part of taking magic items it the surprise factor you give to your opponents.

WusteGeist
30-03-2009, 04:34
I want to use this weapon, but i dont want to tell my opponent I have it.

Are you allowed to write down the nominated target on a peice of paper and then surprise your opponent when you get them into base to base?

It will be hard to pull that off given 2 things.
1 you have to nominate the target. How will you do this with out the nominated model knowing? IE the person who owns said model?
2 in this day and age open list play has become rather common practice. Good luck pulling that trick when your opponent ask to see your list.

Spirit
30-03-2009, 04:44
It will be hard to pull that off given 2 things.
1 you have to nominate the target. How will you do this with out the nominated model knowing? IE the person who owns said model?
2 in this day and age open list play has become rather common practice. Good luck pulling that trick when your opponent ask to see your list.

1: Well he wasnt asking how to hide it, he was asking if he has to vocalise the nomination. And he could easily write it down on paper without telling his opponent. Seeing as "nomination" isn't covered in the rulebook.

2: I dont think i've ever played an open list game. I think that would suck all the fun out of it.


To answer the OP question, try having a discussion on the lines of "if i was using item x at some point in the future, would you be ok with me not telling you?"

Of course this depends on how well you know your opponents. I play a few friends quite often, so im sure they would be ok with it. But if your just going into a shop and asking randoms, they probably wont be happy if you don't let them know. As nominate does usually mean in practice that you must tell the opponent in advance.

"Oh you dont want to dispell my lvl1 metal spell on your vampire bsb because you think he can regenerate it in your turn? Slann has banehead, he is dead, good game.." Nah i don't think they would be altogether too happy with this scenario. However much i would love it! :D

Keller
30-03-2009, 13:58
I've always just written it down at the start of the game, making no mention of it. As with the Ring of Volans, just make sure you have everything done before the start of the game and on paper, so your opponent can verify you picked it in advance.
I don't use the SoFate often, but about half the time I never seem to make use of it anyway.


As for open lists, our group has a custom of identifying units/characters after deployment, but no special details are required. We just go down the line, pointing at units "spearmen w/ miltitia detach, halberdiers led by Captain + miltitia, handgunners, cannon, archers w/ wizard, etc."

Commodus Leitdorf
30-03-2009, 14:16
the few times I've used it I've just said "someone in my army has the Sword of Fate, I'm writing down its target now" then if they ask what the Sword does I tell. Thats about it.

Bac5665
30-03-2009, 14:42
Whenever you use an item, you have to disclose it in it's entirety, including point cost. Nominating a model would seem to be to be a use of the item for two reasons. 1.) Its an action you couldn't be taking without the item and 2.) the item expicitly tells you to do it. Thus, items requiring nomination come into play at the start of the game, and thus are revealed.

rottahn
30-03-2009, 15:45
the few times I've used it I've just said "someone in my army has the Sword of Fate, I'm writing down its target now" then if they ask what the Sword does I tell. Thats about it.

this is probably the best way to go. the item is fully disclosed but the bearer isnt disclosed so it will still have that "surprise" factor.

garythewargamer
30-03-2009, 17:22
Where I play it is an open list. Being new I like it that way. I have heard the pro and cons on this and I have not changed my mind. Now maybe after I have played for years my opinion will change. Presently I am attempting to get my daughter involved in this system and so far it is working. I would hate to teach her anything but to be open and honest.
I like the open lists as I am not perfect. Understand the things about assigning an assasin to a certain unit.

We had a guy at the local store want to have cards for magic spells. And using cards are a good choice ensuring that you remember which spells you roll. Presently I am working on getting them all typed up and inserted into plastic covers. But he wanted to go further.

He would choose a spell to cast and place the card face down on the table. Then he would roll die to see if it was successful. Next he would ask if you wanted to dispell them. Lastly he would reveal the spell and do the effects. See you would not know if it was a defensive spell or offensive one.

He raised some very good points but so did everyone else. Bottom line we play an open list and that would have removed that openness.

Lord Zarkov
30-03-2009, 18:00
It's also against the rules as you have to name the spell and target before casting.

Rodman49
30-03-2009, 20:54
I always point out an enemy model and tell my opponent "That he is fated to die here today."

chivalrous
30-03-2009, 22:43
As with my Assassins, I write down the locations or nominated targets on a piece of paper, fold it and leave it on a corner of the table until it's needed.

Can anyone here honestly say they disagree with that?

soots
30-03-2009, 22:54
After some thought, im not going to tell my opponent.

I beleive the intended rules were for the nomination to happen at the beginning of the game. This is to stop a player from nominating different targets as he needed. (e.g bring in Sword of Fate to kill an enemy model, then find out he is on the other side of the board and changing nomination knowing you wont make use of the item if you keep your target).

And so ill nominate before the game on a peice of paper and keep that target throughout the game. Then i will disclose all relevant information when my character reveals the sword. I think this is not cheating because i am not gaining anything but being tricky with my character and magic item selection which everyone can do.

We dont play open lists and never will! I think thats fine if you like playing that, but GW designed the game to be closed. And hence why we have items thats sole purpose is to find out what the player is hiding (e.g crystal ball)

Grimgormx
30-03-2009, 23:11
I think that you have to nominate a miniature and you must let him know who is being nominated, but you dont have to tell him who is using that sword, and thats the best use for this weapon, he will be afraid to get in combat with that model because it may get killed.

But once you use it, you have to show him who was carrying the sword.

About open list, we dont show our list to the oponents, but we always have them printed so we can show them if we are asked about something that is afecting the game.

and most of the time we use wysiwyg.

Spirit
31-03-2009, 02:05
As with my Assassins, I write down the locations or nominated targets on a piece of paper, fold it and leave it on a corner of the table until it's needed.

Can anyone here honestly say they disagree with that?

This is how you are supposed to play with hidden units, most of them specify that you do not have to tell the opponent at the start,

nomination on the other hand, is never described properly.

Nurgling Chieftain
31-03-2009, 03:16
My understanding is that any item which is to be used in any fashion must be declared at that time. My feeling is that that would include any sort of nomination. My concern is that while it's all well and good to write down the target on a sheet of paper, if you're keeping it secret, then there's nothing to keep you from writing down multiple targets on multiple sheets of paper and pulling out whichever one is convenient.

But that's really just a "competitive play" concern. In friendly games, I wouldn't worry about it so much.

Sarah S
31-03-2009, 03:22
Nominate:
# propose as a candidate for some honor
# put forward; nominate for appointment to an office or for an honor or position; "The President nominated her as head of the Civil Rights Commission"
# name: charge with a function; charge to be; "She was named Head of the Committee"; "She was made president of the club"
# appoint: create and charge with a task or function; "nominate a committee"

It's the opposite of secret.

garythewargamer
31-03-2009, 04:03
Go point raised about the spells. I had to go and find that in my book. Learning took place therefore it has been a good day.

chivalrous
31-03-2009, 10:45
My concern is that while it's all well and good to write down the target on a sheet of paper, if you're keeping it secret, then there's nothing to keep you from writing down multiple targets on multiple sheets of paper and pulling out whichever one is convenient.

Which is why you have a single piece of paper saying something along the lines of "Sword of fate carried by model X nominates model Y as target" and have that piece of paper visible (but folded) on the table at all times.
Sometimes I hand the paper over to my opponent and ask them to put it in their pocket, without looking, until I choose to use the item.

If there's anything left unrevealed at the end of the game then all remaining pieces of paper are unfolded and inspected by the opposing player.

Bac5665
31-03-2009, 15:05
But all that work is ad hoc and obviously outside what the rules detail.

On the otherhand, my rules explaination (that nomination is a use, and thus the item must be revealed in its entirety) is much simply and doesn't require any extra rules making outside of what's already written.