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Lord Asuryan
30-03-2009, 15:45
this is the list I thought up, any thoughts?

epic hero-Aragorn
-starts in warriors of minas tirith
reason: +2 strength value turns mediocre warriors in awesome weapons of mass destruction. extra might point a turn also helps.
approx 170

epic hero-elrond
-starts in high elf warriors
reason: I don't know how prevalent magic is in war of the ring, hence elrond. this, IMO, is the most iffy part of the list.
approx 210

common:
formation of 4 companies of warriors of minas tirith with banner
115

formation of 3 companies of numenoreans
75

formation of 2 companies of minas tirith archers
50

allied formation of 3 companies of high elf warriors with banner
165

allied formation of two units of high elf archers
100

formation of 3 companies of knights of minas tirith with banner
approx 135

formation of 3 companies of swan knights of dol amroth with banner
195-ish?

rare:
2 gondor bolt thrower

formation of 3 companies of warriors of the dead
approx 180

thoughts?

rcal13
30-03-2009, 16:44
how many points are you workingon? the list looks good you may want to mmake all formation 3 compines unless they have rule to bake the work like the castllens they seem to do well with one unit. but man they are 135 pt per company and 69 dollors so. And yes you better have magic because evil has more acess to magic At a 1000 pts I have the nine and 1 shamman at 1500 there are two more shamans and the 3000 there was the nine, necromancer 3shamen and a dragon preist. at lest 7 spell per turn and really this is why the second game with this list I targeted caricter units and it allowed me to over well them in one turn aragon lead aunit of 6 companies of warriors of minas tirith and the stalker hit the rear and the nazgull hit the front after some nasty spells and the trolls hit one side and the othe side was hit by warg riders and yes the spell made it posible to wipe out a unit in 1 turn.

Faeslayer
30-03-2009, 16:45
Is that more than 25% allies? It looks 1500-ish (not sure about the bolt throwers) with 475 in elves.

Unless Gondor/Aragon has some cool elves-as-allies thing I don't know about. :)

Lord Asuryan
30-03-2009, 17:11
no, they don't. whoops. this was originally meant to be 1750 points. I will change.

@rcal13, don't you think that's going a tiny bit overboard with magic? the nine, AFAIK, are 500 points and not nearly as combat uber as the fellowship.

unfortunately, gondor has no magic, IIRC, (please, please corrrect me if i'm wrong!) and it seems somehow unsportsmanlike to spend all my allies allowance on spellcasters, y'know?

you can only take allies from one list, correct?

Faeslayer
30-03-2009, 17:35
unfortunately, gondor has no magic, IIRC, (please, please corrrect me if i'm wrong!) and it seems somehow unsportsmanlike to spend all my allies allowance on spellcasters, y'know?

you can only take allies from one list, correct?

Correct.

I don't think it would be very unsportsmanlike or unfluffy to stick a Gandalf in a Gondor list! I don't have the book yet, so I don't know if that's possible.

Lord Asuryan
30-03-2009, 17:45
IIRC, gandalf is part of the forgotten kingdoms list, which i can't see anyone using as a core list. halflings as common, etc. but they do get great eagles, ents, etc. maybe there's a rule I overlooked about using forgetten realms in any list, it doesn't feel like a stand alone list.

Marauder
30-03-2009, 17:58
IIRC, gandalf is part of the forgotten kingdoms list, which i can't see anyone using as a core list. halflings as common, etc. but they do get great eagles, ents, etc. maybe there's a rule I overlooked about using forgetten realms in any list, it doesn't feel like a stand alone list.

AFAIK the "Forgotten Kingdoms" can only be used as allies - they can't be your main list. So you can definitely have Gandalf in a Gondor list, provided your army is of sufficient size.

Faeslayer
30-03-2009, 18:00
Does an allied hero have to be in an allied unit, or can it join a main army faction unit?

Lord Asuryan
30-03-2009, 18:42
I think they must stay in a faction unit.

darkstar
30-03-2009, 19:12
Correct.

I don't think it would be very unsportsmanlike or unfluffy to stick a Gandalf in a Gondor list! I don't have the book yet, so I don't know if that's possible.
Incorrect. Quoth the book allies "can be selected from any of the other factions with the same allegiance".


I think they must stay in a faction unit.
That's not right either. The only restrictions on placing epic heroes is that they must be placed in friendly formations (excepting the exceptions), and that there may not be more heroes than regular warriors.

kevinsmith121
30-03-2009, 19:37
Have you guys got access to the rules other than what's been placed on the website, in the US the core rulebook does not come out until fourth of April. I would love to see an early points list for the Misty Mountains army as that is what I'm interested in. I have a pre-order in for the book and I will pick it up from my FLGS on Saturday, I've already picked up several boxes of the Moria goblins, but I have itchy fingers to get my hands on more information if there is some online. My FLGS had a store copy of the book, but somebody borrowed it!

Faeslayer
30-03-2009, 19:47
Incorrect. Quoth the book allies "can be selected from any of the other factions with the same allegiance".


I thought you could only ally with one list at a time. No?

Lord Asuryan
30-03-2009, 20:08
unfortunately the book comes out on the 4th. most of this is from store copies, maybe a few people recieved it early, etc. I don't actually have the book.

darkstar
30-03-2009, 20:27
I have the book, as I advance ordered mine. I also have the rather lovely rohan command, sons of eorl, and ent. Yes, allies from as many lists as you like.

kevinsmith121
30-03-2009, 20:38
Ah well, it is only 5 days... you know how it is! Patience, I am told is a virtue!

Faeslayer
30-03-2009, 21:04
Yes, allies from as many lists as you like.

Well, that's good news!

Looks like the Last Alliance will have contained, inexplicably, one angry Ent. :D

takaetun
31-03-2009, 00:51
My objection to Gondor is that it's a very bland seeming force - it doesn't have any real gimmicks as such other than its Heroes. I'd recommend putting those Warriors into formations of four or so companies, just to increase their survivability - D5(7) isn't as good as it sounds, considering the number of dice people throw at it. Similarly, your Knights would get killed of fairly fast, so maybe even replace the Knights of MT with more Dol Amroth knights.

You want magic? Grab the White Council. Mastery level 8, and they can only be charged half the time because Saruman is lying to them. Many, many other nasty gimmicks from the others too, including Gandalf making them reroll failed Mastery rolls.

Lord Asuryan
31-03-2009, 01:40
...and costs HOW much?

takaetun
31-03-2009, 01:46
Enough to take him very near 2000. :P

Avatar of the Eldar
31-03-2009, 02:15
My objection to Gondor is that it's a very bland seeming force - it doesn't have any real gimmicks as such other than its Heroes. ...so maybe even replace the Knights of MT with more Dol Amroth knights.

Hmmm, smells like orc mischief to me. (i.e. The kind of tournament optimizing that often pollutes WFB and 40K.)

Not to say that it's wrong. To each his own.

I take a different view in that WotR offers the opportunity for a different kind of play style, one more driven by Tolkein's rich millieu and what-if scenarios. Finagling the last once of advantage seems misplaced in this game. To me at least. One can enjoy that in the other GW systems.

But then again, I'll be pretty sniffy about fielding certain combinations myself. For example, I have NO interest in fielding Army of the Dead allies in a Gondor list. Never. That was a device to make the movie narrative work. See, that's how I roll. (Not that's superior or right for anyone but me. And whoever I choose to play.)

Oh, making that unit of Dol Amroth knights big enough to be durable will cost major coin. I know, I'm planning one, but only after I have a core force in plastic + heroes.

takaetun
31-03-2009, 02:21
You could make the KoMT unit bigger, I just assumed people want Dol Amroth, because if he didn't he would've just included more KoMT. I heartily agree with you on playing this as a contest rather than a game in Tolkein's world, I didn't mean that in the slightest.

By 'gimmick' I don't mean trick or anything, I mean stylistically and theme wise. Elves, being elves, are awseome. Tolkein's dwarves, similarly, are superbly written and by far my favourite kind of fantasy dwarf. Rohan is well fleshed out with being Horse Lords and all, and all the evil sides have a similar thing, the sand-people-ish warriors of Harad, the hordes of goblins worshiping a greater evil, etc.

Gondor just seems like... Gondor. Its just men. Boring, stodgy old men. I find humans boring in the main, I play these games to exist in richly textured worlds, not to field units of my neighbours.

Also, I think you didn't finish a sentence. :P

Avatar of the Eldar
31-03-2009, 02:50
You could make the KoMT unit bigger, I just assumed people want Dol Amroth, because if he didn't he would've just included more KoMT. I heartily agree with you on playing this as a contest rather than a game in Tolkein's world, I didn't mean that in the slightest.

By 'gimmick' I don't mean trick or anything, I mean stylistically and theme wise. Elves, being elves, are awseome. Tolkein's dwarves, similarly, are superbly written and by far my favourite kind of fantasy dwarf. Rohan is well fleshed out with being Horse Lords and all, and all the evil sides have a similar thing, the sand-people-ish warriors of Harad, the hordes of goblins worshiping a greater evil, etc.

Gondor just seems like... Gondor. Its just men. Boring, stodgy old men. I find humans boring in the main, I play these games to exist in richly textured worlds, not to field units of my neighbours.


My bad. I get you now and don't disagree. (Good line about fielding your neighbors!:p)

StanMcKim
31-03-2009, 04:05
You really want captains in your cavalry units. It gives them the ability to "at the double" and increases the chance of you getting the charge off even if your opponent gets priority.

Lyinar
31-03-2009, 04:51
Dol Amroth rocks anyway... i'm one of the folk who was pissed that Peter Jackson left Imrahil out of the movies.

And i can somewhat agree with the sentiment regarding Gondor "just" being men. It's just as well-thought-out as the rest of Tolkien's cultures, but the sources he drew most of it from had already been done to death even before he got there, and have been ripped off directly from him far more than the other cultures since then.