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Sons of Alaitoc v.2
31-03-2009, 10:44
I would put BEST battleforce, if it weren't for the fact that I love seeing people complain about how bad things are. :D

Also if you want to complain about the lack of an Inquisition battleforce, you can.

Mannimarco
31-03-2009, 10:47
then i shall! it sucks that theres no inquisition battleforce! i want a few squads of grey knights and a tank and some terminators and a grand master in a £50 box

seriuosly though, chaos marines: i dont want khorne berserkers! there shouldnt be cult troops in a box, IMHO it should have been more generic CSMS or havoks

Deetwo
31-03-2009, 10:59
Chaos Daemons. Though I think it's technically a spearhead instead.
Though ofcourse WH/DH have it worse :D

Grimtuff
31-03-2009, 11:03
then i shall! it sucks that theres no inquisition battleforce! i want a few squads of grey knights and a tank and some terminators and a grand master in a £50 box


Show me some plastic GK then we'll carry on this discussion shall we? :rolleyes:

Battleforces are all plastic.

Born Again
31-03-2009, 11:52
then i shall! it sucks that theres no inquisition battleforce! i want a few squads of grey knights and a tank and some terminators and a grand master in a £50 box

seriuosly though, chaos marines: i dont want khorne berserkers! there shouldnt be cult troops in a box, IMHO it should have been more generic CSMS or havoks

I second this, GW may have a hard time believing this but there are some CSM players who don't want Khornate troops! Shock, horror! Having them in excludes a significant proportion of CSM players. I guess they didn't have a lot of options when it was released though as they were the only plastic kits. They could replace them with Termies now, though. Or were the termies out at the same time? I can't remember.

Axis
31-03-2009, 11:56
Dark eldar is pretty underwhelming. 20 warriors, a raider and 5 reaver jetbikes.

CSM is irritating since it comes with possessed. I like the concept of possessed and i do use them (casually) but i think they are a niche squad that doesn't fit in a battleforce. Having said that, the rest is good (though if you don't want khorne you are probably irritated).

EDIT: it goes without saying that those without battleforces are the worst off.

Goq Gar
31-03-2009, 11:57
The catachan box is terrible. Okay, it's got a battle tank, that's 25 quid. A squad of men, 20 quid.

The last item is 2 sentinels. But who wants sentinels!?

Axis
31-03-2009, 11:59
Sentinels are cool! I was ignoring IG battleforces since they will be getting new ones soon.

Mannimarco
31-03-2009, 12:00
everybody wants sentinels, theyre getting good in the new codex

i feel i should explain that GK thing was a joke

Captain Micha
31-03-2009, 12:27
I would put BEST battleforce, if it weren't for the fact that I love seeing people complain about how bad things are. :D

Also if you want to complain about the lack of an Inquisition battleforce, you can.

the Eldar's is pretty terrible.

My Vote though goes to the Tau.

They give you two of the most self overrated units in the codex. Stealth Suits instead of a second Crisis suit, and Kroot.

Axis
31-03-2009, 12:36
Nah, the tau battleforce is good. You get nice stuff in it. I think kroot are actually quite good if you use them properly (i guess the problem is they don't have a place in fish lists which seem to be the most competitive these days) and stealth suits are quite good too.

Captain Micha
31-03-2009, 12:40
Nah, the tau battleforce is good. You get nice stuff in it. I think kroot are actually quite good if you use them properly (i guess the problem is they don't have a place in fish lists which seem to be the most competitive these days) and stealth suits are quite good too.

Crisis is always better than Stealth. Stealth costs far too much and has only one wound.

Even used properly the best thing you can say Kroot do for an army is deny infiltration -potentially-. They suck at assault, have crap leadership no saves, and the only gun they have worth mentioning is 20 pts over costed. And they Fail Miserably, in Mech lists. Kroot make even Guardsmen in the current Ig codex feel Special. (the good kind of Special)

Other candidate for Worst BattleForce ever.. the Ig. At least everyone else's Battleforce gives you a -minimum- sized army that you can field. The Ig doesn't even do that.

Axis
31-03-2009, 12:45
I think you are vastly under-estimating the value of kroot. They are actually decent in assault (take hounds) and their shooting can be quite effective. The krootox is the worst thing about them, and the shaper. Infiltrate gives far more options in 5th...

I have my arguments for stealth teams being good but i think that if i bring this up it'll start a massive thread-jack.

In any case i don't quite see how you could consider the tau battleforce worse than the dark eldar one. The dark eldar one is so old it still comes with trees :/ and way too many bikes.

Captain Micha
31-03-2009, 12:50
The Dark Eldar don't exist to me is why. :D

Besides I like the trees and bikes. And you get a huuuge discount since jetbikes are what 20 dollars a pop.

isaac
31-03-2009, 13:06
Kroot are great if used right. With hounds they are good assaulters, but their true strength is in being a pillbox unit especially combined with vespid. Kroot are damn hard to kill in forests, can lay down a hail fire of shots, can rush out and assault if needed (and are the only decent CC unit for tau) and if the game is objective based, then even more fun, as they are cheap troops.

Kurisu313
31-03-2009, 13:09
The catachan box is terrible. Okay, it's got a battle tank, that's 25 quid. A squad of men, 20 quid.

The last item is 2 sentinels. But who wants sentinels!?

:eyebrows:

I have about 6 catachan battleforces and twelve sentinels (a full squadron of each weapon option). Also, there's no battletank. It's 25 guardsmen, 3 heavy weapon teams and two sentinels, total retail value over 60 pounds plus a few trees. Not bad.

This is a bad thread by it's very own premise. A thread of 'which is the best battleforce?' or 'compare the battleforces' would be much better, IMO.

The best battleforce may well be the tyranids for sheer value, though I personally love the space marine, ravenwing and catachan battleforces because I use them all. In honesty, they're all great for value.

To pick the worst, I pick chaos, because I think putting berserkers in the box is stupid. We're not all khorne players (though I am), and a purely undivided
box would've made a lot more sense for a budding chaos general.
Maybe when inquisition gets plastic models, we'll see an inquisition battleforce. It's not like it's hard to understand.

Grimtuff
31-03-2009, 13:48
They give you two of the most self overrated units in the codex. Stealth Suits instead of a second Crisis suit, and Kroot.

I take it you weren't around for the previous incarnation with no SS (as they were not plastic then) and 3 Crisis Suits.

Much better IMO.

Mannimarco
31-03-2009, 13:52
those were the days eh? made farsight enclave a little more managable

Captain Micha
31-03-2009, 13:53
I take it you weren't around for the previous incarnation with no SS (as they were not plastic then) and 3 Crisis Suits.

Much better IMO.

I was but I never bought into 40k till 4e. They changed the battleforce and I remember thinking "aw they took away the Jungle Trees"

isaac
31-03-2009, 13:53
Ouch, three crisis vs 3 stealth and 1 crisis?

But stealth don't even compare to a crisis! Crisis are the termies/dread hybrid of the tau!

TimLeeson
31-03-2009, 13:53
Best : necrons, tau, tyranids

worst : chaos marines (for the reasons already stated)

Captain Micha
31-03-2009, 13:55
At least with Chaos you get viable units. When you are complaining about it not being "fluffy" enough for a starting Chaos player, you're grasping at straws :D

Mannimarco
31-03-2009, 13:58
its not a question of fluff (although i do play pure deathguard) its a question of gameplay

back when i first started i played black legion, spray 'em black then paint the trims silver, easy and even then i couldnt find a place for the berserkers

Kurisu313
31-03-2009, 14:00
At least with Chaos you get viable units. When you are complaining about it not being "fluffy" enough for a starting Chaos player, you're grasping at straws :D

Chaos is an odd beast. Due to the marks of the gods, it's almost five army lists in one.

A lot of people who start chaos don't want a chaos army, they want a nurgle army, or a tzeentch army. Even those who don't will probably find themselves leaning towards one god or another.

It's for that reason that the chaos box should not contain any cult units. An undivided box that a player can add marked units to at their own will would make a lot more sense.

EDIT - as an example, I know my brother refused to buy the box set for that very reason. He's a nurgle player you see. I wonder which came first: my hatred of nurgle, or my brother playing it. Ahhh, brotherly relationships are so interesting.

Captain Micha
31-03-2009, 14:01
How can't you find a place for Bezerkers? They are one of the most destructive CC units in the game. (They make Raptors look bad at their job even!) Awesome assault units -always- have a place in a 5e army. (more so than Oblits by far in my opinion. As Assault is currently >>>>>>> shooting)

True, there is that. But I don't see how Bezerkers can really make it a "deal breaker". At worst you can trade them up for something that you -do- want with another chaos player. Just reflavor your bezerkers... driven mad by a plague which turns off the pain inhibitors in the body, and from a fever which not even a Marine can escape, the CSM go mad and have the ability to slaughter whatever's infront of them. (Nurgle Bezerkers. see? you can do this for the other chaos gods too)

It's kind of hard to "reflavor" your kroot or Stealth suits so that they become something actually desirable... (that's called proxying then...)

Egaeus
31-03-2009, 14:04
I would put BEST battleforce, if it weren't for the fact that I love seeing people complain about how bad things are. :D

Also if you want to complain about the lack of an Inquisition battleforce, you can.

What exactly defines the "worst"? Is it worst value? Worst selction of units?

I've always seen the Battleforces as "filler" sets...while some of them do provide a pretty good assortment of units, they aren't always things that everyone is going to use.

Hmm...don't see the IG battleforce on GW's page anymore...may not be looking in the right place. Maybe it's getting redone for the imminent release of the new Codex.

My vote would probably be for the Cadian battleforce, simply because it doesn't even contain enough models to make a rudimentary force (unless I'm mis-remembering the contents of the set). The Catachan set comes a close second, but apparently has enought troop models to at least get a full platoon (although I think you could finagle that with the Cadian set if you use the heavy weapons teams as parts of the squads). All the other sets have at least two Troops units and some other stuff, so along with an HQ (in most cases) you have the nucleus of a workable army.

Perhaps when they come out with plastic Stromtroopers we'll see a "Radical Inquisitor Battleforce"? I thought I heard rumors of plastic Grey Knights as well, so it's possible that we could see a DH BF in the future...

Kurisu313
31-03-2009, 14:07
True, there is that. But I don't see how Bezerkers can really make it a "deal breaker". At worst you can trade them up for something that you -do- want with another chaos player. Just reflavor your bezerkers... driven mad by a plague which turns off the pain inhibitors in the body, and from a fever which not even a Marine can escape, the CSM go mad and have the ability to slaughter whatever's infront of them. (Nurgle Bezerkers. see? you can do this for the other chaos gods too)

...all of which would require more effort than if the set was just undivided. It's not always gonna be possible to find a chaos player to trade models with, let alone one who has something you want. Selling them is an option, but what was the point of the battleforce deal then?

Also, converting nurgle beserkers is all well and good, but is a khornate unit with bunny ears and marks of khorne everywhere the best unit to use as the base?

Captain Micha
31-03-2009, 14:11
Actually I'd say it is. Remember with converting you want to keep confusion down. A pussy and oozing looking paint scheme and non Khorne Red colors would go a long way to making them look different. also the Bezerker head dress thing doesn't seem terribly different than say TS. Chaos is chop full of that kind of head dress stuff as it is.

Unless of course it's a mini that would be hard to do converting on (such as a metal mini. Ugh... I hate Metal.. it needs to finish going away!).

Sir_Turalyon
31-03-2009, 14:13
Not to mention Berserkers make good generic Chaos Marines after head swap / cuting away their helmet horns and removing Khorne symbols. It does not need any converting skills and takes less time then glueing the marine together. Heck, a squad of my loyalist Dark Angels is made of redeemed Berserkers with swaped arms and backpacks. And if you can convert jump pack, berzerkers make good cheap raptors - their legs are well positioned for jumping / running. EDIT: Ninjad' !

Ravenwing Battleforce deserves honourary note, as there is only one unit in the box ;) .

The boyz
31-03-2009, 14:14
I was never a big fan on the Cadian box set. The Leman Russ alway's seemed a bit off putting. I would of preferred ten more guardsmen and a Chimera, or something along those line's, rather then the Leman Russ.

Kurisu313
31-03-2009, 14:14
Actually I'd say it is. Remember with converting you want to keep confusion down. A pussy oozing looking paint scheme and non Khorne Red colors would go a long way to making them look different. also the Bezerker head dress thing doesn't seem terribly different than say TS. Chaos is chop full of that kind of head dress stuff as it is.

Unless of course it's a mini that would be hard to do converting on (such as a metal mini. Ugh... I hate Metal.. it needs to finish going away!).

Well opinions being opinions and all, fair enough.

But do you not agree that this is just hassle that wouldn't exist if the boxed set was purely undivided? I'm not saying there aren't ways around the problem, just that it'd be better if the problem didn't exist.

Captain Micha
31-03-2009, 14:17
It would be better, but I don't think it qualifies the Chaos BF as the worst BF deal just because it's a minor inconvenience. (Because at least the BF is mechanically viable. Unlike say Guard)

You can actually field a starting army with it.

and it's also a mechanically attractive BF over all. Unlike say the Tau's, or the Eldar's.

Grimtuff
31-03-2009, 14:17
Actually I'd say it is. Remember with converting you want to keep confusion down. A pussy oozing looking paint scheme and non Khorne Red colors would go a long way to making them look different. also the Bezerker head dress thing doesn't seem terribly different than say TS. Chaos is chop full of that kind of head dress stuff as it is.


:eek::p:eyebrows:

Please tell me you meant to write "pus oozing". As what you wrote is bringing up some rather "different" and more Slaaneshi images. ;)

Captain Micha
31-03-2009, 14:21
:eek::p:eyebrows:

Please tell me you meant to write "pus oozing". As what you wrote is bringing up some rather "different" and more Slaaneshi images. ;)

pussy, and oozing is how that should read...

You slaaneshi players. sheesh.

Kurisu313
31-03-2009, 14:24
It would be better, but I don't think it qualifies the Chaos BF as the worst BF deal just because it's a minor inconvenience. (Because at least the BF is mechanically viable. Unlike say Guard)


Wait, wait, what's wrong with guard now?

My core army was pretty much built with catachan battleforces. My friend did the same with cadians.

It's not a complete army in a box, but hey, it's guard, we need a lotta stuff to make an army, and the sets are good savings.

Captain Micha
31-03-2009, 14:25
It's not 2 troops and something that can be used as an HQ with them like most other armies that have BFs get.

Heck you don't even get a Junior Command platoon's worth of extra minis out of the deal so you don't even get a single troop out of the deal.

Kurisu313
31-03-2009, 14:33
It's not 2 troops and something that can be used as an HQ with them like most other armies that have BFs get.

Heck you don't even get a Junior Command platoon's worth of extra minis out of the deal so you don't even get a single troop out of the deal.

Huh? The boxes have 25 guardsmen - a command squad and two infantry squads is a troops choice. We then get three heavy weapons which can either form a HW team, or be added to the squads.

So two boxes gives you the two troops choices for an army, with either a pair of tanks for heavy support, or four sentinels for fast attack. Add a command squad for HQ and you've got an army.

Guard require a lot of troops to work, too many to easily fit into a 50 pound set, which is not the BF's fault, but the army's design.

I would appreciate chimeras, but there you go, can't have everything. I believe that come may, the sets will have the proper command squad sprues in it, which will help.

Captain Micha
31-03-2009, 14:36
I keep thinking the site said 20 guardsmen not 25. My mistake.

Steel Legion for Life
31-03-2009, 14:40
Tbh, all the battleforces are designed to be wrapped up as christmas/birthday presents and then have little timmy throw chew them, lose the bits and then sell them on Ebay when he gets bored and discovers girls.

Nobody considers the composition of units in them really; the point is to give you as wide a mix of sprues as possible, and put a £10 loss leader discount on.

The Cadian battleforce isn't bad; it's got a full platoon in it, as it contains the Infantry frame, heavy weapons frame and the Vehicle accessory frame, which gives you enough variety in heads and torsos to do 25 men, with an officer and three heavy weapons. Equally, the 3 heavy weapons frames and the men combined can give you 13 heavy weapons teams if you push it. I suggest making Bipods from wire. It's also got a Leman Russ, which is never bad.

PS: The contents are 20 Guardsmen, One Heavy weapons Squad - that's where the extra 6 Guard come from, and one Leman Russ.

The worst ones were the original Orc Battalion & Empire Battalion for Fantasy, as they cost £50 and combined had less models than the £50 Warhammer 6th Ed basic set, which also had the rulebook! Basically, my staff were under orders to NEVER sell one, especially as one of the store targets at the time was to sell Core boxes.

MajorWesJanson
31-03-2009, 14:40
The new IG battleforces are basically a platoon in a box. Command squad, 20 troops, 3 HW teams and a sentinel. Enough for a platoon with the attached HWs or a HW squad addition, and the Sentinel for more HW or mobility.

3 boxes and you have a HQ command, 2 platoons with command squad, 3 squads of troops, and a heavy weapons squad attached each, a full squadron of sentinels, and an extra trio of HW teams to spread around.

Kurisu313
31-03-2009, 15:00
I keep thinking the site said 20 guardsmen not 25. My mistake.

Actually, looks like I was wrong - sort of.

The catachan set does indeed have 25 guardmen, plus a six man HW team.

The cadian set however, has only 20 guardmen, but with the HW team, there's 26 which can be arranged into a legal 25 man platoon.

So, my apologies for being slightly off.

RichBlake
31-03-2009, 15:01
The Cadian Battleforces, future and current, suck.

You get in the current one:

20 Guardsmen
1 Leman Russ
3 Heavy Weapons

The rumoured new one is:

20 Guardsmen
1 Sentinel
3 Heavy Weapons


The current one is OK as if you want a Russ it's £30 anyway so for an extra 20 quid you get 20 blokes and 3 heavy weapons. However with nearly every other army that battleforce makes nearly a 500 point army, in the Cadian one though you don't even get a full troops choice.

Examples:

SM Battleforce: 1 Ten Man Tactical Squad, 1 Five Man Combat Sqaud, 1 Five Man Scout Sqaud, 1 Five Man Assault Squad, 1 Rhino. (All you need is a HQ and you can play your first game).
Ork Battleforce: 20 Ork Boyz, 3 Warbikers, 1 Trukk (10 Boyz in the Trukk, 10 Boyz on foot gives you two troops. All you need is a HQ).
Necron Battleforce: 28 Warriors, 3 Destroyers, 7 Scarab Swarms (Two squads of 14 Warriors and a HQ will sort it)

etc

None of these make good armies, but at least you can buy a battleforce and you can usually spend under another £20 and you have an army to play with, even if it's crap.

I designed a Cadian box of:

40 Guardsmen
1 Chimera
1 Command Squad

With that kit you can make:

2 Infantry Squads
1 Armoured Fist Squad
1 Command Squad
Using the 10 Guardsmen left over you could make the Junior Officer

This wouldn't work with the new codex though. For the new codex I'd include:

1 Plastic Command Squad
20 Guardsmen
3 Heavy Weapons

That's basically a "slightly better then standard troops choice". Not great but half decent.

EDIT: Wait, the new Battleforce has a command squad, 20 Guardsmen, 3 heavy weapons and a Sentinel?

Captain Micha
31-03-2009, 15:02
ah, that makes sense now. Yeah the Catachan box was the more appealing of the two, cause at least you could get -one- troop choice and some HWs out of it.

Kurisu313
31-03-2009, 15:09
RichBlake, from the rumour thread:

Battle Forces
The new Battle Force boxed sets (both Cadian and Catachan) supposedly include a Sentinel, two squads, 3 heavy weapons and a Command Squad

So a russ becomes a command squad and sentinel. About the same price, so not a bad trade off, especially if sentinels are a little better now (plasma cannon heavy sentinel, hehe).

Us catachans looks set to lose a sentinel, but gain all the command squad trimmings, so i'm not overly bothered.

Captain Micha
31-03-2009, 15:25
with the new Codex, you can simply use the two squads they give you as Vets as well.

Cuda
31-03-2009, 16:43
Dark eldar is pretty underwhelming. 20 warriors, a raider and 5 reaver jetbikes.

CSM is irritating since it comes with possessed. I like the concept of possessed and i do use them (casually) but i think they are a niche squad that doesn't fit in a battleforce. Having said that, the rest is good (though if you don't want khorne you are probably irritated).

EDIT: it goes without saying that those without battleforces are the worst off.

The DE Force is actually very good for some who already have a DE army (like me), it's my next purchase. I need another Raider, and more warriors. The best thing is that it's easy to start a new Reaver squad. The Chaos Force isn't that bad, I can always use another squad of Berserkers, but I understand others compaint, it would have been better with the standard Chaos Marine squad. The rhino is always a must at least.

Cuda...

Joewrightgm
31-03-2009, 16:59
The Necron battle force is amazing; get yourself two, a Lord and a monolith and you've almost got around a 1,500 pt army.

Also, I figured out that you could get 3 tyranid battleforces and build an army in bricks of 500pts. Its a great value.

I think the Ork one is pretty weak. Trukk, bikes are interesting, but the 20 boyz will only give you either one unit or two small ones. Its great for padding an existing army, but not so much for those starting fresh.

I have to say, the Chaos demons not having alot of models in plastic for a battleforce is kind of obnoxious.

I like what they did with Lord of the Rings; plenty of plastics with a smattering of metal 'elites' in them.

Sypher21
31-03-2009, 17:42
The Eldar battleforce.

Bare minimum of 10 guardians and 5 dire avengers, a waveserpent which is completely useless, and a war walker who is again, useless unless used in squads of 2 - 3.

I wish they haven't discontinued the old Eldar battleforce.

dugaal
31-03-2009, 17:59
Richblake: I think the Cadian box is a bad deal too, but you are under-exaggerating its contents a bit... see Kurisu313's post above. (plus the tank commander from the tank sprue :P)

And with the Chaos Box, if you mixed up all the stuff, removed the khornate elements from the zerkers (keeping in mind all the extra heads you get with standard CSM) you wind up with 28 CSM and a rhino, which isn't too shabby. It does take some creativity though. And special/heavy weapons are lacking.

Sons of Alaitoc v.2
31-03-2009, 19:05
What about Orks? For the amount you can have in a battle, the size of it is pretty underwhelming, you just about get the same (apart from the options) in Assault on Black Reach (20 boys in both, 3 bikes in battleforce, 3 deffkoptas in AOBR, Ork trukk in 'force, and that is almost equaled out by the 5 nobs and warboss in Black Reach)


The Eldar battleforce.

Bare minimum of 10 guardians and 5 dire avengers, a waveserpent which is completely useless, and a war walker who is again, useless unless used in squads of 2 - 3.

I wish they haven't discontinued the old Eldar battleforce.

You can have a Falcon tank instead of Wave Serpent

taffeh
31-03-2009, 20:44
I'm going to defy the negativity and say my top 3 battleforces are:

1) Ravenwing (Dark Angels -> we wear robes, so you don't have to!)
2) Guard
3) Nids

AlexCage
31-03-2009, 21:03
I ******* LOVE the Cadian Battlebox. You is all fools for doubting it!

You effectively get a platoon and a tank. It's like a smoke and a pancake, you want these things together.

I suppose if you're not a treadhead the tank can be a bit over the top, especially if you're more inclined toward the beastly demolisher. So there's no accounting for taste.

But now that you can take 9 russes, I'm almost sad to see it be removed from the battleforce box.


The Cadian Battleforces, future and current, suck.
For the new codex I'd include:

1 Plastic Command Squad
20 Guardsmen
3 Heavy Weapons

That's basically a "slightly better then standard troops choice". Not great but half decent.

EDIT: Wait, the new Battleforce has a command squad, 20 Guardsmen, 3 heavy weapons and a Sentinel?


Hah. Your battleforce box sucks compared to what we're actually getting! PSSHAW!

But touching on what I just said, I'm not happy with it. Besides the fact that it's effectively less savings now (with the increase in price of line guardsmen), I'm not a fan of so many sentinels. And we're able to take LESS sentinels with the new codex. Kinda strange, no? That's why I went out and bought two of the old ones. Guess that can all boil down to personal preference.

Then again, I bought enough of the outgoing Cadian boxes of 20 that I'll never need to buy another Cadian again. So it's all greek to me. Just gimme my command squads and I'll be happy.



Oh. But on topic:

CSM. HERE, have MORE Khorne! Ghaaah. For those doing a cult army that's just fething annoying.

I also thought about Tau, but I only hate that box because I despise kroot, thus the box would be completely useless to me. Personal preference. But Kroot DO suck.


And am I the only one that sees battleforce boxes as big ol' "reinforcement" sets? Surely you want something in a battleforce box that is a staple for most, if not all armies (Guardsmen), and comprised entirely of box sets that most armies would buy at least twice anyways. (Guardsmen. Leman Russes).

Everytime I felt my army needed a nice shot in the arm, they got a tasty battleforce box, and I felt good for not wasting money!

Sufyan
31-03-2009, 21:13
I think the DE box is both cost effective and points effective, assuming you intend to have lots of Reavers. This is highly artificial though, as it depends on Reaver models otherwise being sold in ridiculously overpriced single boxes. Overpriced models are a common theme throughout the DE range actually. With creative converting you can make a legal army just a little short of 500pts using only the contents of the box.

I don't know which box I dislike the most when it comes to Orks, the old one or the new one. The old one had 16 Boyz, 1 Trukk, 1 Buggy and 5 Bikes (Sounds impressive, but all vehicles were horribly outdated models, only good for bits really) which amounts to somewhere under 400 points (in the old codex). The box gave you 3 Fast Attack and ½ Troop choices, not a very good start for an army at all. The new box comes with 20 Boyz, 1 Trukk and 3 Bikes. That's just barely over 300 points spread out over two minimal Troop choices and one Fast attack choice. With GW prices, you save the cost of 10 boyz with this one, but you're not nearly getting a useful start for your army, though two boxes will take care of that quite nicely assuming you're going for a Speed Freeks kind of army.

Still, I have to vote for Eldar having the worst Battleforce box. The model combination is boring and you don't get a whole lot of them. If you absolutely were looking for those models I guess it saves a bit of money, but meh.

laudarkul
31-03-2009, 21:26
The =][= army battleforce...They could throw some IG squad,STsquad, a Rhino, 2 =][= (one DH one WH) and some retinues...
Otherwise IG battleforce I like it:D...

LonelyPath
31-03-2009, 21:26
I had to vote for the Inquisition (I want plastic kits and a battleforce for them), other than that it'd have to be CSM as I'm not a khorne worshiper and would prefer a box without the berxerkers.

However, I love the Ravenwing, Nid and vanilla SM battleforces, good value if you ask me.

Pwnigiri
31-03-2009, 22:12
How is everyone complaining about the Beserkers when there are Posessed marines in the battleforce also? With the presence of those disgusting models with terrible rules, the beserkers are the least of your worries.

IMO!

Pacific
31-03-2009, 22:41
Well I voted for the orc battleforce.

Whether a unit choice is good or bad is always going to be a bit subjective, but what is not is the value you get in the box. I think the Orc one adds up to something like £60, which pales in comparison to the tau one of about £80 value and even something like the marine one of just over £70.

So, crap value, hopefully its not an indication of battleforces to come.

Oh, and of course the CSM one for trying to palm off those bloody awful possessed models :)

isaac
31-03-2009, 22:55
Hey, as long as the battleforce recipe is 2 troops, 1 transport/something big and 1-2 elites/heavy support/fast attack. Add an HQ and you are good to go.

Of course some forces will get a better deal, but as long as it stays true to the idea of army nucleus/army booster.

adreal
01-04-2009, 01:39
The Chaos one is okay, zerkers with different heads and arm swaps are alright, and I plan a unit of drugged up combat EC in a rhino anyway, so zerkers work for that. I would like the possessed to be termies, but possessed can work I suppose, aspiring champs with mutations are always fun. They should have another command sprue in it though (or given us cult options on everything not just basic CSM).

Ork one is pretty craptastic, but not so bad when you take into account how cheaply you can bulk up your army with AoBR

Both guard ones are.......okay.......not great but not completly crap......they are workable, but not when your just starting out.

Eldar one is terrible.....just terrible.....

Tau one is great, when combo'd with the devilfish/troop box, the suit storm apoc box and the three hammerhead apoc box (you have a 1750-2000pts army right there on the cheap)

RichBlake
01-04-2009, 02:54
I ******* LOVE the Cadian Battlebox. You is all fools for doubting it!

You effectively get a platoon and a tank. It's like a smoke and a pancake, you want these things together.


But you don't! I wish you did, which is why I was stunned the new battleforce will actually be good. Really Guardsmen in the current codex rely on platoons or Stormtroopers as troops and the Battleforce cannot make a single troops choice with just whats in the box.

You say it's "effectively" a platoon, a comment I agree with, and in fact find the battleforce a nice way to add some stuff to a growing guard army, however thats not how I view Battleforces.


I suppose if you're not a treadhead the tank can be a bit over the top, especially if you're more inclined toward the beastly demolisher. So there's no accounting for taste.

But now that you can take 9 russes, I'm almost sad to see it be removed from the battleforce box.

I liked the russ being in there for one reason: No other battleforce had such an awesome vehicle included, it really highlighted how good our tanks were.

Personally I'd have dropped the 3 heavy weapons for the plastic command squad in the new box, getting you a minimum platoon and a Leman Russ.


Hah. Your battleforce box sucks compared to what we're actually getting! PSSHAW!

Ne glad I don't work for gamesworkshop :p


But touching on what I just said, I'm not happy with it. Besides the fact that it's effectively less savings now (with the increase in price of line guardsmen), I'm not a fan of so many sentinels. And we're able to take LESS sentinels with the new codex. Kinda strange, no? That's why I went out and bought two of the old ones. Guess that can all boil down to personal preference.

Yeah but the price increase is why I've ordered 4 boxes of 20 Guardsmen from gamesworkshop. Someone pointed out that with 150 Guardsmen I don't need more Guardsmen but to them I say "How dare you!".




And am I the only one that sees battleforce boxes as big ol' "reinforcement" sets? Surely you want something in a battleforce box that is a staple for most, if not all armies (Guardsmen), and comprised entirely of box sets that most armies would buy at least twice anyways. (Guardsmen. Leman Russes).

Everytime I felt my army needed a nice shot in the arm, they got a tasty battleforce box, and I felt good for not wasting money!

Nah I don't see them as that. I see battleforces as your "starter set". A few nice toys that define the army and give you a core to build around. You may buy more then one set when starting out (e.g the new guard battleforce would only require two of them plus a minimum of a blister for a HQ and you're all set) but that's really the start.

I don't actually have a problem with people buying them to add stuff, if I fancied a Leman Russ and more heavy weapons then I might as well get the 20 free guardsmen as well! However they should be designed to provide the basis for an army, a core around which to build a much larger army.

That's what I'd do anyway...

captainramoz
01-04-2009, 03:10
The best battleforce ever is space wolves
seconded by csm catachans and tau
the worst ever is orks just some boy bikers and a trukk(space wolves have the same content but in marines so that means more points worthed force)
Then eldar battleforce critisiceable point is that it only includes 5 dire avengers
The remaining races have a decent battleforce but i'm not a fan of it's content

holmcross
01-04-2009, 06:59
For both my Necron and Tyranid armies, I've bought battleboxes and have not been dissapointed.

So neither of those.

GeneralDisaster
02-04-2009, 10:49
My Sisters of Battle want a damn Battleforce!

Seriously, GW, give us plastic =I=!

nightgant98c
03-04-2009, 05:19
I hadn't actually paid attention to battleforces in a few years. I noticed a problem in that most older ones had the requisite two troops and one HQ the newer ones often do not. This bothers me quite a bit.

Kettu
05-04-2009, 11:51
I hadn't actually paid attention to battleforces in a few years. I noticed a problem in that most older ones had the requisite two troops and one HQ the newer ones often do not. This bothers me quite a bit.

Wait, what?

Tau are the only ones with a possible HQ in the box and it still lacks the attachments that the HQ suit has on it.

adreal
05-04-2009, 13:00
Nids can as well (warriors)

isaac
05-04-2009, 13:26
I find the lack of HQ okay, if you are expanding your forces, you don't need one and starting off there are normally several possible choices for a HQ. Why force them to buy two HQs? (assuming they don't like the included one)

noobzor
05-04-2009, 18:56
i'm voting DE. they haven't been updated in so long that whatever you get is bound to be imporactical :D

decker_cky
05-04-2009, 19:30
The new guard battleforces can make a legal army. Command squad + 2 veteran squads fills the required HQ and troops choices. You can't fit the heavy weapon squads into that force, but if you really want to stretch it the most, you could put the 3 HW teams into the vets and command squad, then make another command squad (split the actual command squad models between the two squads).

But in general, it's set up as a platoon and a sentinel. Get 3 IG battleforces and you have 2 platoons with a command squad and 3 squads each, an HQ choice command squad, and 3 sentinels (not to mention 9+ heavy weapons teams to mix in however you want, so you can put them in line squads and have more of them, or you can have 3 heavy weapons teams).

isaac
05-04-2009, 21:13
The Tau can also make a legal army. Same as the SM. Note one normal SM as a sergeant and call the normal sarge a captain, job done. (or libby/chappy)

captainramoz
05-04-2009, 21:46
The Tau can also make a legal army. Same as the SM. Note one normal SM as a sergeant and call the normal sarge a captain, job done. (or libby/chappy)
Good point the battleforce brings 3 troops choices impressive indeed:D

Cypher, the Emperor
05-04-2009, 23:46
i'm voting DE. they haven't been updated in so long that whatever you get is bound to be imporactical :D

Actually they give you everything that you would want in a DE battleforce and none of the crap (Hellions). The only way it could be better is if it had another tank and no biked, but thats a matter of personal preference.

I'll put in another vote for Catachans as having an awesome BF, especially when it used to be 10 dollars less than the other ones (I think it was a supply/demand thing).

But the best are all the special SM ones, the wolves, BT and DA all have rockin' good batteforces.

Worse is CSM, because who wants Zerks and Possesed?

NO ONE.

Thats who.

decker_cky
05-04-2009, 23:53
I wouldn't say no one wants berzerkers. It's just that no one who doesn't want khorne things wants them. They're a solid choice and all that.

Cypher, the Emperor
05-04-2009, 23:58
Yeah, but they have BUNNY EARS.

Thats why I converted some fallen space wolves for my berserkers because I didn't want the jogging rabbit marines.

Really they should have cult troop themed battleforces, with one box of CSM, one box of cult troops and a predator or something.

The Anarchist
06-04-2009, 00:12
cant complain if you at least have a battle force in my opinion, inquisition got stiffed, and dosen't look likly to be changed anytime in the near future.

Cypher, the Emperor
06-04-2009, 00:56
Yeah, really, how hard can it be to put two squads of sisters and a rhino in a box for a hundred dollars?

Warforger
06-04-2009, 00:58
Well Inquisition at least are probably the only race(s) that are getting rules updates if you read the FAQ's (still no extension for whats a daemon :angel:) like the Vindicare, 3d6 + 3 +rending, and they get the NEW PoTMS on there Raiders. Thats at least some boosts, if only DE could get them though.

Eldar, 5 DA a single War Walker, 10 Guardians (last two are overrated, War Walkers got better at least, but Guardians are horrible for there cost) and a Wave Serpent (leaving either 10 foot slogging guardians of 5 foot slogging DA, would have been better as a Falcon, since the two sets cost the same anyway). This is also goes to show GW intellect, they never released a 5 man DA set.... So you always have those odd 5 DA's (well, maybe if you bought the 10 man DA squad box, giving you 15, make one squad 8 man the other 7 man).

Tau get a savings of 50$, that is insane, and I assume you can make a commander out of the Crisis Suit.

captainramoz
06-04-2009, 01:13
Yeah, really, how hard can it be to put two squads of sisters and a rhino in a box for a hundred dollars?

It I'll be more like celestine some seraphins a rhino and a sister squad

40kdhs
06-04-2009, 03:06
Inquisition because they don't have it. I would not mind seeing 2 LRs/LRCs kits + GK models + other stuffs in it.

kizzt
06-04-2009, 03:44
I'd actually pay a 50 dollar(australian) premium on the current battleforces to have a sisters one. Heck, even if FW sculpted 10 more sister poses and 5 more seraphim i'd be stoked. I'd definitely buy a box for like 200 Australian that had 10 resin sisters, 5 resin seraphim and an immolator.

BrotherErekose
06-04-2009, 05:23
Eldar, 5 DA a single War Walker, 10 Guardians (last two are overrated, War Walkers got better at least, .... (snip!) .... So you always have those odd 5 DA's (well, maybe if you bought the 10 man DA squad box, giving you 15, make one squad 8 man the other 7 man).

Points-wise, the Eldar BF doesn't deliver much, compared, as Warforger stated, to the tau box (I've 3.3k worth of Tau and ain't buyin' no mo'!).

But, I'm going to buy a 2nd Eldar BF, as that'll put a cap on my odd 5 Dire Avengers, the 2nd WaveS, and then 2 War Walkers with scatters ....
-------------------------------
Big Boxes:
One of the best I've seen for points: Not the BF, but that immense box of Necrons (~$170-200). Doesn't it clock up to 1750 points?

3 years ago, I bought the first big box of Tau, lesee, what was it called? "Tau Empire", the one with the limited edition Etheral? $200. That only came up to around 1200 points, IIRC. There was a 2nd "big box" a year later, but I forget what changed ... the first one was better, though. Maybe D'fish vs. Hammerhead. :confused:

So, what two criteria is this thread looking at (@4 pages so far)?:

Bargain: unit points gained for money spent
or
Usefulness: Besides the K.Berserker debate (and I do have an unloved, unused Chaos: SM BF), units that no one wants or are unpopular?

For my vote: The Ork BF.
More often than not, I snicker at the Ork BF, especially considering AoBR is the better bargain for the models and cash.

Consider what the kids are doing:
They pool their cash, $60 each. They split the orks and SMs. Instead of buying the $90 BF, the ork kid has spent $30 less for the twice number of ork boys, 6 kopters (vs. 3 bikes) and 2 Warbosses (instead of a trukk). Oh, yeah, icing on da cake: 5 nobs, err, 10.

And what if he didn't split with another kid? For $30 more he has a reasonable start on Space Marines!

Can anybody top that?! :evilgrin:

:angel:

isaac
06-04-2009, 08:32
Speaking of AoBR, the marines barely get a legal starting force with one box (I guess you could make two five man squads (not combat) but then you lose all the SM goodies for tac squads.

So for Marines
1HQ
2Elites
1(-2)Troops

Orks
1 HQ
1 Elite/1 Troop
1-2 Troops
1 Fast Attack

captainramoz
23-04-2009, 16:10
Speaking of AoBR, the marines barely get a legal starting force with one box (I guess you could make two five man squads (not combat) but then you lose all the SM goodies for tac squads.

So for Marines
1HQ
2Elites
1(-2)Troops

Orks
1 HQ
1 Elite/1 Troop
1-2 Troops
1 Fast Attack
I didn´t got that but consider this black reach and marines bf and maibe devastator will give you a decent army for less than $200 and you´ll have some orks to:D

isaac
23-04-2009, 17:07
For a legal army, you need 2 troops and 1 HQ. An ideal starter force should come with 2 troop choices and then something extra.

The only way to get a legal army out of the starter box is to create 2 5 man squads and by doing so, you lose all the goodies that come with a 10 man tac squad