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View Full Version : Is VDR legal in 5th?



kurac
31-03-2009, 15:54
...Cause i found this, and i want to make a VDR Land Raider.

http://www.ageofstrife.com/tools/vdr/

x-esiv-4c
31-03-2009, 15:58
VDR is as legal as you and your opponent want it to be.

Mannimarco
31-03-2009, 15:59
i used to use that link, got taken down a while ago but good to know its back up and running

EVIL INC
31-03-2009, 16:05
So far as I understand, it is not official but as others have said, for house rules and for fun games it should be fine so long as you and your opponant(s) both agree to it.

Mannimarco
31-03-2009, 16:14
watch out though, vehicles do seem to be more expensive than their codex equivelent

just make a vehicle, add to it everything from your codex and you'll see its more expensive

RCgothic
31-03-2009, 16:29
Example:
Chimera under VDR is 121points. that's more than twice as expensive as in the new codex.
Predator Destructor is 155points, again almost twice as expensive as codex.

Lord Malorne
31-03-2009, 16:34
The points reflect the rarity, and the fact that, tbh you won't be using them to make existing tanks ;).

I do agree though, as a Black Templar player one thing I have always wanted is a twin fisted dread, which oddly we cannot have event though there is artwork of it in the book :mad:, after looking at VDR a few years ago the cost is to near 200pts for my liking.

Grazzy
31-03-2009, 16:43
Opponents permission.

DONT USE THOSE RULES TO WIN. They are just made for laughs. I would recommend just agreeing on a points value for wahtever you want to field.

Arador
31-03-2009, 16:57
I don't think you even could use the VDR rules to win. Everything I've tried to make has been cripplingly underpowered.

Spacker
31-03-2009, 18:30
i used to use that link, got taken down a while ago but good to know its back up and running

That link has never been taken down on Age of Strife since it was first put up. You might be thinking of the old RGMW site from many years ago on which it used to be hosted, but it's been on Age of Strife for at least 18 months running (I've lost track of when I originally put it on the site).

:)

As to the VDR themselves, they were last updated for use with 3rd edition and so, as others have already pointed out, the vehicles you create are often way overcosted compared to their 4th/5th edition equivalents.

MrBims
31-03-2009, 18:38
I don't think you even could use the VDR rules to win. Everything I've tried to make has been cripplingly underpowered.

Everything will be underpowered until you start using really abusing the rules. Check out this turret I made using VDR:

Race: Space Marine
Type: Immobile
Size: Normal Vehicle
Armor: 14 14 14, Fully Armoured

Imperial Weapons:
Twin Linked Gatling Long Barrelled Mega Assault Cannon (36", S7, AP3, 4d3 Small Blast, Twin-Linked)

Vehicle Upgrades:
Power of the Machine Spirit

This turret is capable of putting down an average of 8 small blast templates, at a high enough AP to kill Space Marines easily, with re-rollable scatters, out to 36". It costs 418 points, but is capable of completely annihilating a space marine squad and everything around it each turn. AV14 all around means that only weapons with S+2d6 have any chance of doing real damage, and Power of the Machine Spirit stops Crew Shaken and Crew Stunned results from stopping it from firing. It's as durable as a Landraider, but doesn't have to get close to chainfists and melta weapons in order to get its job done.

VDR was specifically designed so that making normal vehicles would be a fun novelty, not a way of getting more efficiency, but some of the options allow for ridiculous powergame options.

Mojaco
31-03-2009, 18:41
You can also take 100 bolters at 2 pts each or something. Horribly overpowered.

It's a nice system to get a basic clue of what point cost is appropriate. But generally you should be able to make up a point cost yourself based on existing tanks imo.

Marshal Sinclair
31-03-2009, 18:41
Personally I'd drop the rear armour of that turret to 9, you'd save loads of points. ;)

MrBims
31-03-2009, 21:51
Personally I'd drop the rear armour of that turret to 9, you'd save loads of points. ;)

You would save only 50 points. I'd think 50 points to stop Powerklaws from getting a 5/6 chance of penetrating with every auto-hitting attack is well worth it. Also, there's Deepstriking and Outflanking squads to worry about. With Strength 8 against AV 9, a squad of five Deffkoptas has a very good chance of knocking the turret out during the second turn of the match.

Mojaco, the Bolter is 4 points. Lowest is Lasgun/Autogun at 3 points.

Steel Legion for Life
31-03-2009, 22:15
The most overpowered thing I could come up with back in the day came about as an experiment to try to recreate the old chimerdon tank from epic.

Basically, you get a 12/10/10 chimera hull, make it open topped (this was the only way to recreate Chimera top hatch firing, I swear) and put a battlecannon in the turret. As I recall it came to about 65 points, and was a transport option:)

jselvy
31-03-2009, 22:26
Considering the nature of Imperial technology, stifled and codified by the AM, a modular VDR is reasonable.
A new VDR for use with Apoc certainly is called for. The flexibility condoned by the datasheet program seems to call for some sort of unified construction rules for the Imperium, at least.

Bregalad
31-03-2009, 22:27
A tank with 14 armour all around and 100 bolters is 570. Get the first round and you are done ;)

doombanner
01-04-2009, 23:43
A tank with 14 armour all around and 100 bolters is 570. Get the first round and you are done ;)

yeah, but we all know there's that follow-up article with Jervis where he says everything has to be modelled...

Then again, occassionally I run across pictures of Angry Marines and Uuyuu Carnifexes, so anything is possible...

~Doom Banner

Culven
01-04-2009, 23:51
I like to use VDR as a starting point for Datasheets for Apocalypse. There is almost no way to make the vehicle overpowered for its cost in that environment. :D

MrBims
02-04-2009, 02:36
I like to use VDR as a starting point for Datasheets for Apocalypse. There is almost no way to make the vehicle overpowered for its cost in that environment. :D

I beg to differ...

Race: Space Marine
Type: Tank
Size: War Machine
Armour: 14,14,14 fully armored, 2 Structure points, 2 Imperial Fields
Upgrades: Power of the Machine Spirit

Weapons:
Mega Battle Cannon Battery (Range 72", S9, AP2, 3 Large Blast, Ordnance)
Coaxial Twin-linked Long Ranged Heavy Bolter (Range 54", S5, AP4, Heavy 3)
Mega Battle Cannon Battery (Range 72", S9, AP2, 3 Large Blast, Ordnance)
Coaxial Twin-linked Long Ranged Heavy Bolter (Range 54", S5, AP4, Heavy 3)

This vehicle costs 790, just a little bit more than a Warhound, but is capable of dropping 6 S9 Ap2 Large Blast templates per turn, 3 aimed at one target, 3 aimed at another, with rerolls to scatter dice inside 54". Whatever it shoots is going down.

The 2x Double-barreled laser destructor Warhound is commonly found to be the most overpowered and points efficient unit in Apocalypse, but I've made something that costs just a little bit more and gets significantly more killing power. At least, unless you're fighting Tyranid Monstrous Creatures or Monoliths.

Culven
02-04-2009, 03:01
Yes, that is a big nasty, which equal points of Space Marine Devastators could take out fairly quickly. Most players could field one or two Strength D weapons which they will shoot at your vehicle after knocking down the shields. So, while the killiness of that vehicle is impressive, there are ways to deal with it, which pretty much balances everything in Apocalypse (not that there is really a lot of balance in Apocalypse, but it is the mass killiness that makes people want to play anyway).

Or, even better. A lone Guardsman assaults with a Meltabomb and gets a Chain Reaction. Sure, the guardsman is vaporized, but I would say it was a good use of an 11 point model. :D

Angelwing
02-04-2009, 04:03
The VDR is 'legal' with opponents permission and is great for using old models that no longer have stats such as some of the armorcast stuff.
The drawback is that options are point costed for 3rd edition so will not compare favourably to 5th ed.
As Jervis says in the foreword, it's really for 'hey look at this cool conversion I made! Let's get some rules for it'
not 'hey lets design a big gun with all the upgrades so I can surprise my next opponent and blow his army away in one turn' :rolleyes:
The same applies to the tyranid creature design rules.

Yes, you can design abusive models, but the fact is that 1) your opponent can veto it, so that should stop abusive builds (unless both players want abusive builds) and 2) VDR is very strictly WYSIWYG which usually stops stuff like the 100 bolter example mentioned above.