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View Full Version : Looking for help w/ a 2250 Brettonian army



Ravenousone2
31-03-2009, 16:03
Hey all my wife just got into playing warhammer fantasy and since i've been playing VC for the past 5 yrs.+ was wondering if anyone had any helpful suggestions for her.just assume she has every option (we spent a little over 5k on her new army) could someone help us make a pretty good list against WoC?Any and all help is very appreciated.

EldarBishop
31-03-2009, 17:05
It is customary to post your list and then ask for help regarding that list (ie. you build a list, and we'll fix it, offer suggestions, etc for you). You don't have any list at all?

Another option, is to use the search function to find existing post on Warseer for Bretonnian lists (here is one of mine: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182495 )

At least post ideas of what you want to use and/or do and get help from that.

Generally I try to run a 6 man lance for every 9 man lance (lances bigger then 9 can be very difficult to move around). I sometimes field elite units (Questing and Grail Knights) as 5 man single rank units. Mounted Yeoman can be really useful for march blocking, redirecting charger, etc.

SiNNiX
31-03-2009, 17:11
Just make an army list full of nothing but cavarly (that's always fun) with a unit of grail nights and a Lord wielding Silver Lance of the Blessed with the Virtue of the Impetuous Knight lol. Back in the day when I played Bretonnia, all I had was Knights; no archers, no militia, just nothing but cavarly. Against most armies, you'll get destroyed haha. But it can be extremeley fun against Skaven and Ogres and stuff but like I said, not really that good... just really really fun. :)

SiNNiX
31-03-2009, 17:38
It's probably not a good idea to follow the advice I gave, by the way. I really don't have any good advice to give on a Bretonnian tournament-based army seeing as how I've always seen 7ED Bretonnians as sub-par compared to the other armies. I have yet to see a Bretonnian army do good in any tournament I've ever been in. Nothing against you, EldarBishop; for all I know, you could be a Bret. mastermind and win every tournament you go to! Maybe I just play ******. My tourny-army is pretty anti-bret. (Dwarves)

Lord Dan
31-03-2009, 17:41
It's probably not a good idea to follow the advice I gave, by the way.

...?

That aside, to the OP: If you spent 5k on an army, hopefully you spent $22 on the army book to go with it. Tear through it, post a list here (http://warseer.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=37) and we can take care of you from there.

Ravenousone2
31-03-2009, 17:48
Thanks here's the list that i recently thought up its almost entirely mounted aswell. but MSU for double charges.i guess tell me what u like and dont like about the following.

1x Prophetess w/ DS , DS , DS , and Potion Sacre (in grail Knights)

1x Damsel w/ DS , DS ( in KotR)

1x Pally BSB w/ witrue of duty , and Banner of the lady (in Grail Knights)

1x Paladin w/ Virtue of the impetuos knight and enchanted shield ( in KoTR w/ Damsel)

1x Paladin w/ Lance of artois and virtue of the joust ( in a defferent KotR unit)

6x Knights Errant w/ SB and Errantry Banner

6x Knights Errant w/ SB

5x KotR w/ SB and banner of chalons

5x KotR w/ SB and War Banner

5x KotR w/ SB and Twilight Banner

3x Pegasus Knights w/ SB

7 x Grail Knights w/ SB and Banner of Defense

Ravenousone2
31-03-2009, 17:50
thinking of replacing the Damsel w/ another pally for the 3rd unit of KoTR. the Proph and damsel are really just for a DS every turn but turn 6 5 Dispel dice the Magic resistance in the units and the wolf hunts from lore of beasts for charges

Lord Dan
31-03-2009, 17:58
1x Prophetess w/ DS , DS , DS , and Potion Sacre (in grail Knights)
I've never liked the potion sacre, simply because you have to declare its use before you roll. It would be nice in an army when you NEED to get a certain spell off (such as VC vanhels or chaos gateway) but Bretonnians don't have spells that fall into this category. You're also taking 5 ds in a 2250 game, which is just a waste of points. I wouldn't take more than 3. Drop her down to a regular damsel.


1x Damsel w/ DS , DS ( in KotR)
Remember you have to pay for mounts. I'm sure you realized this, i just didn't see them listed (nor do I see them listed for your paladins). This is fine, but again, I think you went a little crazy with the ds.

1x Pally BSB w/ witrue of duty , and Banner of the lady (in Grail Knights)
I wouldn't put this guy with a unit of grail knights. As soon as your opponent finds out what they are, all shooting will be focused on them (I've actually only played a handful of games with them where they even got to the other side of the table). I would bulk up a unit of KoTR and throw him in with them.

1x Paladin w/ Virtue of the impetuos knight and enchanted shield ( in KoTR w/ Damsel)
This guy is fine, but he'd do a lot better in a unit larger than 5, but I'll talk more about this when I get to your KoTR units.

1x Paladin w/ Lance of artois and virtue of the joust ( in a defferent KotR unit)

6x Knights Errant w/ SB and Errantry Banner

6x Knights Errant w/ SB

5x KotR w/ SB and banner of chalons
No. No no no no no. Your KoTR should be no smaller than 8, and THEN you take characters into account. If you want some small, cheap rank breakers take 5-man Knights Errant with no banners. Here you're begging your opponent to pick up some easy 100 point banners. Lance formation is the Bretonnian's greatest strength, and right now you're not using it.

5x KotR w/ SB and War Banner

5x KotR w/ SB and Twilight Banner

3x Pegasus Knights w/ SB

7 x Grail Knights w/ SB and Banner of Defense[/QUOTE]
I don't like grail knights, but hopefully someone will come along and give you some advice that's better than "drop them", because that's all I'm going to say about them.

Ravenousone2
31-03-2009, 18:08
"Remember you have to pay for mounts. I'm sure you realized this, i just didn't see them listed (nor do I see them listed for your paladins). This is fine, but again, I think you went a little crazy with the ds."

yea i have it on army builder all the mounts are already included.

"No. No no no no no. Your KoTR should be no smaller than 8, and THEN you take characters into account. If you want some small, cheap rank breakers take 5-man Knights Errant with no banners. Here you're begging your opponent to pick up some easy 100 point banners. Lance formation is the Bretonnian's greatest strength, and right now you're not using it."

I've actually built lists like you're suggesting this list is what alot of brett players have suggested since long lances get flanked/hard to maneuver. But yea normally i like units of 9 or 12 but like i said im not exactly a brett pro.you need a VC army built im on it. but i've never actually played a game where i was playing bretts.

"I've never liked the potion sacre, simply because you have to declare its use before you roll. It would be nice in an army when you NEED to get a certain spell off (such as VC vanhels or chaos gateway) but Bretonnians don't have spells that fall into this category. You're also taking 5 ds in a 2250 game, which is just a waste of points. I wouldn't take more than 3. Drop her down to a regular damsel."

and as far as the Proph is concerned i agree completely. I dont like the idea of the prophetess but that was from a tactics report i read were 4 or 5 guys suggested the Proph w/ 3 DS's. seems like a waste to me too.

Daleran
31-03-2009, 19:04
Paladins aren't that poweful, and brett magic never wins any games on its own...maxing out characters isn't a good way to get a competetive list. I've been running a lord level character on a peggie with virtue of heroism, tress of isoulde and whatever other goodies for a good chance to pop flying terror causers before they panic you off the board. Small knight units like that don't have enough combat res, a good balance is one large unit and one small unit so that you have the combat res of the large unit with the manouverability of the small unit for flank protection and combined charges on the flank. Also I usually only run 1 level 1 or 2 damsel with 2 scrolls, you should be able to deal with wizards on turn 2 in most situations. Skirmishing bowmen are a good unit to take, they can screen your knight units on turn one, then either charge out of the knights way, or die to get out of the way for charges later in the game. Grail knights are extremely expensive, and kinda pointless to take bigger than 5 in my opinion, as they will either break a unit or fail to break it regardless of 4 more attacks. Plus they are often more of a psychological factor in that they will draw fire off the rest of your army no matter how small they are possibly saving you points. Banner of the lady used to be a staple in my army but I've since dropped it to buy more knights, and been more vigilant in planning my movement phases so I cancel ranks with a flank charge anyway...only difference is it doesn't work on an oathstone unit like banner does. I also use a grail reliquae but most people don't...I just like having one stubborn block of troops who don't run at the drop of a hat.

EldarBishop
31-03-2009, 19:15
It's probably not a good idea to follow the advice I gave, by the way. I really don't have any good advice to give on a Bretonnian tournament-based army seeing as how I've always seen 7ED Bretonnians as sub-par compared to the other armies. I have yet to see a Bretonnian army do good in any tournament I've ever been in. Nothing against you, EldarBishop; for all I know, you could be a Bret. mastermind and win every tournament you go to! Maybe I just play ******. My tourny-army is pretty anti-bret. (Dwarves)

Actually, I normally (did) do quite well in tourneys. Up until the last year or so (Dark Elves, VCs, and Daemons are really hard fights for Brets). Dwarves fall into one of the more difficult "normal difficulty" armies for Brets... however, I'd usually be able to squeek out a win.

Edit: In my most recent tourney I was 2/1/1 (with the list linked above). The loss came from a magic heavy DE list with 2 Hydras. The draw was against Dwarves... though only due to special objective (kill the general) and a lucky shot (Cannonball to my Lords head on the first turn, failed "Look out roll" and 4+ ward Save).

/edit


Thanks here's the list that i recently thought up its almost entirely mounted aswell. but MSU for double charges.i guess tell me what u like and dont like about the following.

1x Prophetess w/ DS , DS , DS , and Potion Sacre (in grail Knights)

1x Damsel w/ DS , DS ( in KotR)

1x Pally BSB w/ witrue of duty , and Banner of the lady (in Grail Knights)

1x Paladin w/ Virtue of the impetuos knight and enchanted shield ( in KoTR w/ Damsel)

1x Paladin w/ Lance of artois and virtue of the joust ( in a defferent KotR unit)

6x Knights Errant w/ SB and Errantry Banner

6x Knights Errant w/ SB

5x KotR w/ SB and banner of chalons

5x KotR w/ SB and War Banner

5x KotR w/ SB and Twilight Banner

3x Pegasus Knights w/ SB

7 x Grail Knights w/ SB and Banner of Defense

I strongly feel that a Bret Lord is REQUIRED for the additional LD.

I'd take 4 DS at MOST, on 2 Damsels. I occassionally take 2 DS and the Silver Mirror (that's fun times).

I'd run 2 KotR units at about 8 models, and 1 KnEr unit at 8 models w/Errantry Banner. Add characters to increase to full lances (3 deep).

For smaller units, you could do KnEr. I tend to use Questing/Grail Knights here though. Even a small number of them can be quite a threat.

I agree that using a big unit of Grail Knights is generally a waste of points. Sure, it's a big hard unit... but it's also a big giant point sink. And also, a HUGE loss in VPs if they ever do lose combat and flee.

The PKns should not have a Std, at such a small unit size (in a unit of 4 I usually take a Musician if I have the points... I had a couple bad experiences fleeing combat and not rallying for a couple turns).

I only give Stds to the "main" units. Putting them on the "support" or "flanking" units is simply a waste of points, and invites free VPs for your opponent when they are captured.

Also, for flanking bonuses, march blocking, and such... I find that my Yeomen are invaluable in most games (I actually have 18 of them!).

I'd avoid taking the Banner of the Lady. I'd simply TOO expensive. Try taking this instead: BSB w/Virtue of Duty, in a KotR w/War Banner. (that's +4 CR before ranks). I get a lot of mileage out of that combo. As a bonus, you can give the BSB something else too, I tend to use a Sword of Might to help out his combat ability... though something defensive could be nice too.

Most of the other banners (other then War and Errantry) you have listed can also be dropped. Just ends up being a big waste of points.

edit: You need FULL Cmd on your "main" units... it looks like only Stds... looking at your list. /edit

Ravenousone2
01-04-2009, 02:17
thanks Dal and Bishop thats exactly the kind of stuff i was looking for really appreciate all the help folks. Hopefully the wife can pull out a win against WoC now....atleast make it more competitive,she's only played one game and got massacred by a DE army my buddy josh was playing.

SiNNiX
01-04-2009, 03:30
Ravenous: Taking Grail Knight unit with a lord leading it using silver lance of the blessed always does good in lance formation on a charge (from what i've seen in tournaments). My good friend uses that unit and it always produces alot of casualties; I think he also uses a BSB with something in that unit, not sure what though; also not sure what virtues he takes (probably impetuous). just mess around with different strategies in tournaments until you find something that works.

EldarBishop: About the cannonball to the head thing... wow, dude. If that were me who killed your lord in that first turn, I would've felt so bad I would've offered a draw or atleast took you to dinner lol. Talk about bad luck! I never take cannons though, they're not too great when you can take S6 re-roll scatter grudge throwers and S8-9 bolt throwers. :) those are what really wins me tournaments. that and i have really lucky rolls usually! :D

Ravenousone2
01-04-2009, 03:56
thanks Sinn i play VC and am doing very well...no losses to date w/ my new list. 3/0/0 and all massacres atm.But i wont be taking the list to any tourneys I'll be playing VC.my wife is the new Brett player and i'm just really trying to help her out and better understand the army.at my shop theres currently noone but her playing Brettonians so i havent really seen much of them since 4th edition.Hope she feels them out soon though she really seems to like the army alot and so do i. (just something cool about a ton of knights on the board.) nothing looks sweeter after you've setup.anyway just wanted to say thanks for all the help w/ the list really appreciate it guys.best of luck in all your games.