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Sttucker13
31-03-2009, 23:35
Behold the tabletop periscope:
http://www.terragenesis.co.uk/infopages/page231.html.
I can't decide if I want to laugh, or go to the store and get some mirrors.

Lord Dan
31-03-2009, 23:39
"4) When your opponent demands a look, tell him to make his own."

Sort of defeats the purpose, doesn't it? ;)

Sttucker13
31-03-2009, 23:40
"4) When your opponent demands a look, tell him to make his own."

Sort of defeats the purpose, doesn't it? ;)

No. You have a periscope, and the only TRUE view of the battlefield. Thusly you are always correct. Heck I might just make the box without the mirrors. ;)

Makiaveli
31-03-2009, 23:42
Heh....I may have to make one just for kicks :)

Lord Dan
31-03-2009, 23:45
I actually went back and read the little story he wrote before the article, and I kind of want to hit the guy now.

Sttucker13
01-04-2009, 00:05
Heh....I may have to make one just for kicks :)

I'm thinking about it.

I would love to be able to settle a TLOS debate at the table by whipping out a tabletop periscope. My geek-peen would be huge.

jason_sation
01-04-2009, 00:23
The best part for the IG is that their Lasgun technology will bounce off the mirrors and hit their target!

(Just kidding, it's Guard).

Gensuke626
01-04-2009, 00:28
I think the sentiment that someone should be told to "Make their own" if they want a look definitely defeats the purpose. ************* on that level is likely to earn someone a spot on any gamer's black list.
"Hey I can see your unit with this thing!"
"Really? Let me see."
"No! Make your Own!!"
"Well, then you can't prove that you can see it."
"Wrong! I can see it so I'm taking my shots now!"

Sttucker13
01-04-2009, 00:30
I think the sentiment that someone should be told to "Make their own" if they want a look definitely defeats the purpose. ************* on that level is likely to earn someone a spot on any gamer's black list.
"Hey I can see your unit with this thing!"
"Really? Let me see."
"No! Make your Own!!"
"Well, then you can't prove that you can see it."
"Wrong! I can see it so I'm taking my shots now!"

... I believe that advice, and our references to it, were made in jest.

Hicks
01-04-2009, 00:35
This is genius! The new TLOS rules are so ridiculous sometimes with all this "I can see the toe of this one guardsmen so I'll shoot your squad", so this made me chuckle.

Deadmanwade
01-04-2009, 00:57
Your periscope + my laser pointer = fun?

"I can see your unit"
"no you can't!"
"My eye!! I'm blind!"

I'll stick with my high tech toys for now.:D

Pacific
01-04-2009, 00:57
Ok, this thing is definately on my 'to do' list! :)

After you've had a line of sight traced between 2 different cracks in walls at intervals, and then through the roof of a shed to a model stood inside (this was then proved by poking the tape measure through said holes, regardless of how many times it was actually bent).

ARRGGHH TLOS can be so useful, but it is such a weapon in the hands of a cheat! I think this would be a small price to pay!

Gensuke626
01-04-2009, 01:27
... I believe that advice, and our references to it, were made in jest.

The problem with joking around on the internet is that SOMEONE is going to be stupid enough to take it seriously. There's a guy that plays at my FLGS that I refuse to play because he reads things like that, things made in jest, and takes them seriously and too far. He basically ruins the game because someone makes a joke.

People who understand that it's a joke are all well and good, but I feel like most people over estimate the average person's intelligence.

SanguinaryDan
01-04-2009, 04:12
Make something idiot proof and they'll build a better idiot.

Orkeosaurus
01-04-2009, 04:20
Using your LOS-O-Tronic
1) Put it down on the table.
2) Look through the hole in the top.
3) Say 'Hey! I can see your unit after all!
4) When your opponent demands a look, tell him to make his own.

Absolute brilliance.

Starchild
01-04-2009, 04:21
I use a periscope that actually has a usable length. That little tinbox they're selling is a very poor concept. :(

Why stoop down to get a periscopic view, when you can stoop down and get the same view without squinting into a rat box? :confused:

Occulto
01-04-2009, 04:30
The problem with joking around on the internet is that SOMEONE is going to be stupid enough to take it seriously. There's a guy that plays at my FLGS that I refuse to play because he reads things like that, things made in jest, and takes them seriously and too far. He basically ruins the game because someone makes a joke.

People who understand that it's a joke are all well and good, but I feel like most people over estimate the average person's intelligence.

I refuse to ever stop joking on the internet due to the impact it might have on idiots. :D

Lord Dan
01-04-2009, 05:15
...and hit their target!

(Just kidding, it's Guard).

Thank you for the laugh.

gothgar
01-04-2009, 05:17
hahaha, that is awesome... technically would that work with laser based weapons?

Lord Dan
01-04-2009, 05:23
Not sure. If in theory the laser beam was concentrated and superheated enough to punch through armor and the likes, I reckon it would melt the reflective surface before it bounced.

But then again I'm a history major, so what do I know?

Ianos
01-04-2009, 05:30
Make something idiot proof and they'll build a better idiot.

Still laughing...!:D

Barbarossa
01-04-2009, 06:16
I refuse to ever stop joking on the internet due to the impact it might have on idiots. :D

You, sir, are what others should aspire to!

And yes, laser pointer > periscope.

Brucopeloso
01-04-2009, 09:08
Tabletop periscope? How about the real life periscope rifle? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periscope_rifle
Model them on your troops and you even have a legitimate and history supported reason to use the tabletop periscope....... just kidding of course! :D

The boyz
01-04-2009, 09:11
Hahaha Tabletop periscope, brilliant. I've got to make me one of them for sure.

IJW
01-04-2009, 10:51
Make something idiot proof and they'll build a better idiot.
Too true. :)

For what it's worth, some historical gamers have been using tabletop periscopes like that for decades - there's nothing 'too far' about it.

x-esiv-4c
01-04-2009, 11:53
I'd like to see someone bust that out at a GT.

doombanner
01-04-2009, 23:47
Saw this ages, ago, thought it was brilliant.

It's just now with the newest rules this is getting some love.

Honestly 40K2 true line of sight rules were great, but 40K is a mass battle game now, and reintroducing true line of sight was one of the few things the new rules got wrong. Yes, it reminds you it's a toy soldier game, but makes things way too overly fiddly and complex.

No laser pointers and tabletop periscopes for me! :p

~Doom Banner

Burke888
02-04-2009, 00:39
I think this is too large to be of any real use.

Tyron
02-04-2009, 00:52
If there were a way to have a gun built in to go off for when the opposing player takes a peak for not believing you :evilgrin:

djinn8
02-04-2009, 01:09
Huh, and there I was using a microcamera and monitor *boi'glaben*

insaniak
02-04-2009, 01:25
and reintroducing true line of sight was one of the few things the new rules got wrong.


They didn't 'reintroduce' true LOS... it's been there in every edition of the game so far.

Go pick up any edition's rulebook and look at the LOS rules. Every single one of them refers to using the model's eye view for LOS.

4th edition simply temporarily added in an abstract system for dealing with area terrain... which was removed in 5th because (as an educated guess) it confused too many people, who thought it was supposed to be used all the time...


So far as the periscope goes, it's not really a new idea. Similar devices have been bandied about for miniature wargaming for decades. This one is a nice 40K-fication of the idea, though.

jselvy
02-04-2009, 02:00
As funny as the instructions are I can see a use for something similar.
I, for one, have a bad back and after a day of stooping and squinting a way to double-check LOS without bending yet again starts to look really good. I wonder if there would be any objection to using something similar for this purpose?

techman
02-04-2009, 04:33
I've been a member of terragenesis for a while (great site)....and I can tell all you people thinking he's serious...he's joking. Though I do love hte idea and hate the TLOS rule to tell u the truth. I'm not an dork about it so I'm cool but I'd hate to be with some people who are

Pooky
02-04-2009, 05:17
Maybe I am missing something here, but what ever happened to just bending ones legs to look down at the eye level of the model? Why do we need the little periscope?

And I think the periscope is kinda neat. I think the guy who wrote the web page is a jerk.

Mouldsta
02-04-2009, 05:46
Wow good to see that warseer hates anyone and everyone not just GW. The whole of that webpage is CLEARLY written in tongue-in-cheek style; it even talks about him finding a marine scout in his shed...
The whole thing is done in a qirky fashion, with the "tell your opponent to make his own" an obvious good natured banter.

Instead this gets translated as he's a WAAC player who would actually try preventing an opponent from looking down it in order to claim an advantage and is therefore a jerk:rolleyes:

Maybe that's why GW's publications no longer contain strange references to hamsters, persons with the biggest ears, small boys called brian etc "Thou shall not make comments in jest, lest Warseer try enforcing them as RAW"

Angelwing
02-04-2009, 14:11
Maybe I am missing something here, but what ever happened to just bending ones legs to look down at the eye level of the model? Why do we need the little periscope?


Well, it would help reduce the danger of sharp terrain or models poking you in the eye.

Charistoph
02-04-2009, 16:34
hahaha, that is awesome... technically would that work with laser based weapons?

Considering they use mirrors for laser welders, I would think so. The problem being that any mirrored surface is pretty weak to any ballistic weapons like grenade, bolter, stubber, shuriken, etc., making it only effective against the Guard and Lascannon spamming Marines.

oldgamer56
02-04-2009, 16:43
Not sure. If in theory the laser beam was concentrated and superheated enough to punch through armor and the likes, I reckon it would melt the reflective surface before it bounced.

But then again I'm a history major, so what do I know?

The US Army has had to coat all optics because of the laser threat. There were a number of US chopper pilots that received laser burns in their eyes as a result of Soviet soldiers aiming their laser rangefinders at the choppers and the laser entering the choppers fire control optics while the observor was using it. They were left with permanent burned out spots on the back of their eyes.

The 747 anti missile aircraft will also use mirrors to aim the massive laser energy used to shoot down a ballistic missile from hundreds of miles away.

NealSmith
02-04-2009, 16:47
I realize this is tongue-in-cheek, but periscopes have been used by miniatures players for ages to check LOS. Nothing new here... Move along... :)

Heretic12
02-04-2009, 18:09
Has anyone thought of slathering copious amounts of ink at the rim of this device then waiting for ones opponent to demand use? Would be a moral victory in my eyes no matter the outcome of the game.

Vandelan
02-04-2009, 18:13
I'd like to see someone bust that out at a GT.

GW would get the idea to make one and sue the original makers for copyright infringement!

Sttucker13
02-04-2009, 18:16
Has anyone thought of slathering copious amounts of ink at the rim of this device then waiting for ones opponent to demand use? Would be a moral victory in my eyes no matter the outcome of the game.

That sort of devious trickery sounds more like the work of a heretic than an honorable warrior of the Imperium. Burn him.

borithan
02-04-2009, 20:11
They didn't 'reintroduce' true LOS... it's been there in every edition of the game so far.Well... woods, until 5th edition, have always not worked by TLoS, instead blocking line of sight to varying dergrees (2" in RT, when 12= 2 metres... you could only see 4 metres into a wood? 6" in 3rd. Not sure how far in 2nd and 4th.). There was also "hiding" in ST (and 2nd ed?) which meant that TLoS, which was used normally (woods aside) was ignored and other rules came into play.



There were a number of US chopper pilots that received laser burns in their eyes as a result of Soviet soldiers aiming their laser rangefinders at the choppers and the laser entering the choppers fire control optics while the observor was using it. They were left with permanent burned out spots on the back of their eyes.When were US choppers looking through fire control optics at Soviet troops?

Skyrir
03-04-2009, 01:25
Some people, (i.e. the ****** who wrote the little backstory there) shouldn't be allowed to play 40k..... Have you ever played a game with someone who invents a stupidly overfluffed reason for every action on the board?

Rioghan Murchadha
03-04-2009, 02:18
Some people, (i.e. the ****** who wrote the little backstory there) shouldn't be allowed to play 40k..... Have you ever played a game with someone who invents a stupidly overfluffed reason for every action on the board?

And who exactly 'should' play 40k? Angry misanthropes with nothing better to do than hate everything in sight and complain about how nobody understands them whilst listening to Simple Plan, the Used, and Fallout Boy?.. (Sorry.. That's just not complete without adding in My Chemical Romance...;))

shin'keiro
03-04-2009, 02:28
Your periscope + my laser pointer = fun?

"I can see your unit"
"no you can't!"
"My eye!! I'm blind!"



LOLOL

As for the losotronic :wtf:

Ironmonger
03-04-2009, 02:40
Your periscope + my laser pointer = fun?

"I can see your unit"
"no you can't!"
"My eye!! I'm blind!"

I'll stick with my high tech toys for now.:D

I read this and almost busted a gut when an imaginary episode of Kids in the Hall played through my mind:D

NealSmith
03-04-2009, 03:33
When were US choppers looking through fire control optics at Soviet troops?

Mid to late 1980's?

exsulis
08-04-2009, 02:27
Na, its when a person builds a full gaming table, and then spend hours preparing for TLOS. PLayed the guy once on the table, and never played him again(thank god). Then 5th hit, and every time I tried to play this edition I just remembered that game.

RichBlake
08-04-2009, 03:53
Well, it would help reduce the danger of sharp terrain or models poking you in the eye.

My Grey Knight Terminators tend to stab my opponent in the eyes when they bend over to check LoS


GW would get the idea to make one and sue the original makers for copyright infringement!

GW make a scope shaped "laser" (read: Thin red light) pointer to check LoS with.

Templar Ben
08-04-2009, 04:29
You do know that article is about 3 years old or so.

Templar Ben
08-04-2009, 04:35
When were US choppers looking through fire control optics at Soviet troops?

As recently as the late 90's in the Pacific.

Bekenel
08-04-2009, 08:52
Soviet troops.. in the late 90s? And here I was thinking the USSR disbanded in 1991..

Also, are people seriously thinking that this article is real? The "backstory" is so obviously tongue-in-cheek..

Akuma
08-04-2009, 09:00
Isnt like laser pointer enought ?

Logarithm Udgaur
08-04-2009, 09:07
Your periscope + my laser pointer = fun?

"I can see your unit"
"no you can't!"
"My eye!! I'm blind!"

I'll stick with my high tech toys for now.:D

Epic internet wins!!!!!1!!


There were a number of US chopper pilots that received laser burns in their eyes as a result of Soviet soldiers aiming their laser rangefinders at the choppers and the laser entering the choppers fire control optics while the observor was using it.

WTH was this happening? Vietnam? Afghanistan (the one where US was supporting Taliban)?

borithan
08-04-2009, 10:18
WTH was this happening? Vietnam? Afghanistan (the one where US was supporting Taliban)?Stiil not sure why American chopper pilots would have been looking at Soviet troops through range finders and the like, as the US was never at war with the Soviet Union, and as far as I am aware they never did joint maneuvers together. However, it wouldn't have been Vietnam, as there were no Soviet troops in Vietnam (the USSR, through China, provided many of the weapons, and maybe some technical advice and training, but never fighting), and it wouldn't have been Afghanistan, as American helicopters were not sent to fight there... The US provided arms and technical support (much like the USSR in Vietnam) and there were some special forces chaps out there to train them, but there was never fighting between Soviet and US troops.

Logarithm Udgaur
08-04-2009, 10:48
Well, that is the official line from both countries. I am much to jaded to believe it though.

Templar Ben
08-04-2009, 13:31
I am sorry yes it was Russian in the Pacific. It is not uncommon to look at each other through weapons. I can't tell you the number of times I observed someone through the scope on my rifle.

We had two pilots that I remember that were lased and both ended up grounded due to vision loss.

EVIL INC
08-04-2009, 14:05
I could be wrong but wouldnt that only really be usefull if the model whose LoS you are checking is near enough to the edge of the board for you to reach to look through?
Of course, the taller the player, the further into the board you could set it (Reason # 871 being 6'11" is usefull).

*Good lord, what have I done?!?! Now people will be making telescoping table periscopes with extra mirror lengths so they can set them anywhere on the table and see LoS!

BobTheZombie
08-04-2009, 15:36
I have a mental image of a couple of marines seeing a unit through the persicope and firing their bolters into the air hoping the bullets will eventually come down and hit the enemy, artillery style. Could be easier for missile launchers. Worked just fine on Worms.