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Sloppyjayman
01-04-2009, 17:34
I have just invested in a new skaven army and bought 2 battalion boxes (got them very cheap). Currently i own 80 Clanrats and 40 slaves. I plan on only putting in 2 units of clanrats with 35 models in each. However, all experienced skaven players tell me not to run more than 25 in a unit and have 3 of them. Can someone tell me why?

The last 2 games i played with units of 25, (both against dwarfs) I only had 15-18 models by the time I got into combat and was outnumbered. So my thought is to put enough rats in to ensure i still outnumber my opponent when i get into combat.

Thanks for the advice.

Whitesox
01-04-2009, 19:42
well my main army is orcs

my rule is

Toughness 4 models with light armour and shields run 25
Toughness 3 models with light armour and shields run 30-35

i use these numbers with my orcs and gobbos and i always have full ranks by the time i get across the board

Desert Rain
01-04-2009, 20:17
I would put them in big units 30+ as you need the Ld bonus and the outnumbering. If you start with 35 and lose 10 to shooting prior to a combat you are still outnumbering most enemies.
So big is better!

SiNNiX
01-04-2009, 21:11
I would wait a few more months until the 7ED army comes out.

But now for, they're Skaven. I'm pretty sure you can be punished in a court of law if you don't take huge, disposable units of them. :D

Orge_ladd
01-04-2009, 21:19
36 strong.

6X6 means more attacks for you, and lots of ranks and outnumbering.

Erie Ed
01-04-2009, 21:20
this is my rule of thumb < 2,000 Points 25, > 2,000 points 25 - 30.

W0lf
01-04-2009, 22:33
25 clan rats w/full command
20 slaves.

X3 + w/e else.

dal9ll
01-04-2009, 23:03
In my 2000 pt. list I run two units of 30, each of which contain a Warlock Engineer, and one containing a BSB. I usually flank these units with 6-man Nightrighter skirmishers to ensure they dont get easily flanked and lose their oh-so-important-rank bonus.

SiNNiX
01-04-2009, 23:14
In my 2000 pt. list I run two units of 30, each of which contain a Warlock Engineer, and one containing a BSB. I usually flank these units with 6-man Nightrighter skirmishers to ensure they dont get easily flanked and lose their oh-so-important-rank bonus.

That's how it's done. It's always good to take large blocks of rodents and as you said, nightriders make the perfect flank-protectors.

fubukii
02-04-2009, 02:24
slaves should be run in 21 man unit with musicians or 25 man units with musicians nothing else.

CLanrats should be at least 25 strong total (24+ char is popular) but i prefer 29 with a char, to keep my rank bonus longer.

Erie Ed
02-04-2009, 02:36
slaves should be run in 21 man unit with musicians or 25 man units with musicians nothing else.

CLanrats should be at least 25 strong total (24+ char is popular) but i prefer 29 with a char, to keep my rank bonus longer.

curious why 21?

Foegnasher
02-04-2009, 02:40
i run mine in groups of 25.

but i run 5-7 units.

if i was only going to do 3, they'd be 30-35.

i like lots of units though.

Bum
02-04-2009, 02:43
21 makes you have to kill 1 more model for panic tests.

Clanrats if were talking below 2000 should be AT LEAST 25 models. In fact at 1000 I usually run 25. At 2000 I run them in units of 30 with Standard + Musician. This allows a nice +5 static CR until 10 rats die, but with enough units 10 rats here or there won't matter.

And I full disagree with 6x6. Clanrats suck ass in combat and taking down a saurus means you have to throw a fiesta for everyone. Always minimize frontage with clanrats, in CC there job is too not die, not to kill.

Slaves I run in units 20, because if something wants to shoot at my slaves feel free too.

SiNNiX
02-04-2009, 03:04
21 makes you have to kill 1 more model for panic tests.

Slaves I run in units 20, because if something wants to shoot at my slaves feel free too.

Lol I've actually seen people shoot at slave units. :rolleyes:

fubukii
02-04-2009, 03:43
Lol I've actually seen people shoot at slave units. :rolleyes:

it happens all the time actually. Its not a bad idea to shoot slaves that arent near the general as thier ld of 5 means they will most likely flee. THis puts the skaven player at a disadvnatage as now he lost a redirecting unit, and its not hard to kill 5/6 models to cause panic on them, thats why i run 25. Its a bit more pts but it seems that the etxra model needed (7th) really saves me alot of the time. Granted if i need a few pts ill drop the slaves to 21.

As for how wide clanrats should be, unless you are fighting weak unarmored enemies with a death frenzied unit of clanrat spearmen you should only be 5 wide. Most of the time you shouldnt take spears on your clanrats either, after taking 100-120 clanrats thats 100-120 extra points your list has to spear, which is a couple of support units.

a typical skaven list i bring to tournaments is something like this
2k
warlord - e shield, weeping blade, Hvy armor, warpstone amulet
Lock - full kit minus pistol, storm daemon, Warpstone charm
Lock full kit minus pistol, scroll eye of horned rat
Lock full kit minus pistol scroll
4x 29 clanrats full cmd
4 x 25 slaves mus
2 x 5 nr
3 x 5 tunnelers with posioned hw
9 jezzails
2wlc

for 2250 ill add some more NR possibly drop the 1 tunnel team add 9 more jezzails, or some ratling guns just to fill pts ( its hard to fit 10 infnatry blocks on the table), in addition i start to consider 2 man PWG units as throw away choices ( 20 pts to make my enemy set up a unit yes plz :P )

Bum
02-04-2009, 04:52
Another option to is not not knit out your Warlord. I've been trying this basically giving him Shield, Heavy Armor, and a Great Weapon. I sit him in the back of a unit and only bring him forward into combat if he isn't going to get his squashed. Even knitted up Skaven Heroes aren't too tough and the LD of the warlord is his most important stat.

fubukii
02-04-2009, 05:42
true story i also sometimes drop the e shield for the bands of power. The weeping blade is great, it allows our warlord to kill most hero level chars and stack up alot of cr, due to over kill

Makarion
02-04-2009, 06:18
I'd personally not bother with expensive gear on the warlord - give him armour, and enchanted shield / a wardsave if you have to, but he should not budge from the back of the unit, anyway...

Now, a plaguepriest with bands of power is another story! Plague censer or flail and he's a serious threat.

fubukii
02-04-2009, 07:04
I'd personally not bother with expensive gear on the warlord - give him armour, and enchanted shield / a wardsave if you have to, but he should not budge from the back of the unit, anyway...

Now, a plaguepriest with bands of power is another story! Plague censer or flail and he's a serious threat.

how is a warlord with weeping blade no a threat? with bands of power your str 10 d3 wounds!!!!! and even vs multiple wound units like flesh hounds and flamers, he does amazing!

xragg
02-04-2009, 12:52
Why not give your locks pistols? I see so many ppl skip the option. Its still a str5 armor piercing shot and an extra CC attack. Granted, its not a must take, but if the points can be spared, I often take them. Then again, my skaven list looks alot different from yours from the get go, so it might just be differing play-style.

Edit
02-04-2009, 13:22
I am fond of 25 for clanrats 20 for slaves, 2-3 of each, but I use monks and stormvermin to to help horde out with more infantry, with these on the table the clanrats don't take much fire as they are not the bigger threats

and my unit of 20 slaves took out a unit of realm knights to the front and a charge from 18 blackorcs during the last tournament, won both, ran both of those units down :)

I like a warplock on one engineer and deathglobes on the other (i take 2 engineers in every list, but never more) that pistol has killed giants and shaggoths and chariots a plenty, worth it imo. Sometimes you just need to do one more wound :)

In bigger lists (2250) I take warlord with felblade, not really using him for leadership but as a giant distraction, slap him with 24 stormvermin and the hatred banner and run him at the biggest, fanciest painted model the enemy has. This typically throws your opponents plan out of whack when he realizes if I get the charge that character/model is dead. This lets you move the rest of your army into beneficial positions and set traps without being quite as obvious.

Sasquatch
02-04-2009, 13:30
Under 2K, 25 clanrats is fine, 20 slaves (21 if you can spare the points). Over 2K, 30 clanrats works, 35 if you're facing a lot of shooting/magic. Standard and musician are must haves for clanrats IMO. Slaves are naked.

There are two reasons not to run monster blocks of clanrats.
1) Over a certain amount, it doesn't change anything. You could run 50 ... but you're still only getting +3 CR for ranks and bigger frontage just means more dead rats.

2) Clanrats are your mainstay units. More clanrat units means more of other units. Want to run 3x5 naked night runner as throw aways? You need 3 clanrat units first. More than three or four doesn't make a difference ... but by then you've usually hit 2K and you can include a unit of Stormvermin.

SiNNiX
02-04-2009, 15:50
For 2,250pt matches, I've always preferred 30 myself.

fubukii
02-04-2009, 18:27
yea 25/29 clanrats at least 3-4 blocks
21 or 25 slaves as many units as possible

Edit
02-04-2009, 21:38
that's one of the benefits of skaven, they have alot of playstyles, and the same unit can have many different uses depending on the player:)