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Crube
02-04-2009, 10:23
Now, I'm an experiencded player, and have probably written more lists at 2000 and 2250 points than I care to think about. I have however, never done a 500 point list.

In theory this should be easy, but I'm having a bit of difficulty in reducing down my thinking.

What I'm asking is in general, are there any tips anyone can offer for constructing smaller 500 point lists (any army)?

Thanks

W0lf
02-04-2009, 12:18
At 500 pts you will need 2 core + a character.

As this is mandatory its a good diea to base your army on the 2 core units chosen.
I find due to base DD agic isnt effective so a combat hero + a unit for him w/support is what your looking for.

For example with Orcs and Goblins (they are in your sig).

id take;

Black orc big boss, Kickin boots, shield
121 pts

24 Boyz
FC, Shields
174 pts (iirc)

20 Night gobbos
2x fanatic
110 pts

5 Wolf riders
spears, mus
81 pts (?)

That leaves a few pts to play with.

Another example;

Dark elf master
Great weapon, Pendant of Khaleth
129 pts

20 DE spearmen
Fc
155 pts

10 crossbowmen
100 pts

Bolt thrower
100 pts.


Ofc 500 pts does open up some extremly abusive option, such as Wolfmother who thinks its funny to run;

3x Warlock engineer
1 storm daemon, 1 eye of the horned rat
345 pts

20 clan rats
100 pts

2 posioned wind globidiers
20 pts

Braad
02-04-2009, 12:28
For 200-500 points games, you can also use the rules for warbands. Sadly, they are not on the GW website (only things that can be sold are...) anymore.
Maybe try looking for 'warbands 7th edition' in google or something...
These rules are lot of fun.

If you stick to basic rules that's also just fine. I think more often than not you're gonna keep your units smaller, and characters with less equipment/items. Not necessarily because its better, but I think if you have single huge unit, and the whole game depends on whether that unit kills or dies, its no fun at all.

W0lf
02-04-2009, 13:19
IIRC are warband rules not;

1 character only - must be under 150 pts.
1 core min.
1 special or rare slot
A unit champ may be your general (if you dont include a character).

Edit
02-04-2009, 13:28
500 is easy for some armies (OnG, skaven, Empire) and quite difficult for others (Ogres,Brets,Chaos of most kinds) If your army has an option for a cheap character and a cheap infantry option you are golden, just don't worry about bells and whistles, at 500 numbers are the name of the game. Most armies will have little or no shooting and little to no magic, if they go for harder infantry they will have very little of it. swamp them in your cheapest guys and get flanks :)

Mercules
02-04-2009, 13:29
There are several armies that can't really field a force at 500 points without Warband rules.
Tomb Kings comes to mind as the most crippled. Bretonnia also has issues. Even if you don't use the scenarios at least use the army construction rules and special rules for each army to allow some to have a chance.

Ogres, for example, end up with Bruiser, 3 Bulls, 3 Ironguts, and probably 8-9 Gnoblar Trappers. Basically... screwed.

Skaven will run with 2 Warlock Engineers, Clanrats, Clanrat Slaves, and a Ratling Gun. The magic they can bring will chew most 500 point armies to shreds.

Mercules
02-04-2009, 13:43
IIRC are warband rules not;

1 character only - must be under 150 pts.
1 core min.
1 special or rare slot
A unit champ may be your general (if you dont include a character).

Nope...

Total points spent on Characters may not exceed 150 Pts.(for armies 200-500)
At least 2 Core units, no more than 10(8?) total units.

1 Special and 1 Rare slot or 2 Special slots.
1 Warmachine(Chariots count as warmachines)

US 1 models minimum size for unit is 3
US 2 models minimum size for unit is 2
US 3+ models minimum size for unit is 1
This of course only counts if the Minimum unit size is normally over that amount.

Command options may not be bought for units until they hit their normal minimum size, however most of those with 20 for a Minimum size can do so when they reach 10 models(Goblins, Zombies, Clan Rats...).

There are other specialized rules for various armies, such as Tomb Kings not needing a General and Heirophant. VC having Commander count for Crumble/marching and no need for a Vampire. Ogres being able to be lead by a Maneater as commander(he still counts as your Rare slot though).

Spartan
21-04-2009, 11:04
My main tip is increase it to 750pts.

500 in my experience is a little too hard for some armies so by increasing it it makes it a little bit more balanced.

I have a good vampire counts and bretonnia 750 armies pm if anyone wants them.

Mercules
21-04-2009, 13:37
750 does make several things more viable. Warbands works well though at 500. Either would be good.

Spartan
21-04-2009, 13:59
Yes I just find that the extra 250 pts makes a huge differance.

Yes Warbands works well at 500 pts but does not follow the normal 2 troop chioce 1 HQ minimum criteria if I understand it correctly.

Keller
21-04-2009, 14:09
For 200-500 points games, you can also use the rules for warbands. Sadly, they are not on the GW website (only things that can be sold are...) anymore.
Maybe try looking for 'warbands 7th edition' in google or something...
These rules are lot of fun.

If you stick to basic rules that's also just fine. I think more often than not you're gonna keep your units smaller, and characters with less equipment/items. Not necessarily because its better, but I think if you have single huge unit, and the whole game depends on whether that unit kills or dies, its no fun at all. If you're set on 500 point games and the like, I also encourage Warbands rules. I've a copy of them; PM me w/ an email if you need them.

I would also suggest increasing the games to 750 or even 1000 points. These games can be great fun too, and don't tend to cripple some armies as much. I personally prefer 1K games a lot of the time; they are fast and generally competetive. They also force you to really consider what you want to try to accomplish.


IIRC are warband rules not;

1 character only - must be under 150 pts.
1 core min.
1 special or rare slot
A unit champ may be your general (if you dont include a character).

There are 2 sets for Warbands, depending on what size of game it is.

Cats Laughing
21-04-2009, 19:49
Ofc 500 pts does open up some extremly abusive option, such as Wolfmother who thinks its funny to run;

3x Warlock engineer
1 storm daemon, 1 eye of the horned rat
345 pts

20 clan rats
100 pts

2 posioned wind globidiers
20 pts

Nice :)

Of course, a High elf player can squeeze a Dragon Mage (L2 with a/some minor item(s), or L1 with maxed magic items)into 500pts thanks to only needing 1 core...

That would be funny to deploy. Then say, "nah just kidding, I took 2 RBTs instead"

Mercules
21-04-2009, 19:54
Nice :)

Of course, a High elf player can squeeze a Dragon Mage (L2 with a/some minor item(s), or L1 with maxed magic items)into 500pts thanks to only needing 1 core...

That would be funny to deploy. Then say, "nah just kidding, I took 2 RBTs instead"

Which is why you play Warbands. Total spent on Characters(including mounts/magic) is 150 points. for a Warband 200+ points.

Cats Laughing
21-04-2009, 22:42
Which is why you play Warbands. Total spent on Characters(including mounts/magic) is 150 points. for a Warband 200+ points.

True enough. I don't think I'd run a 500pt league or tourney with any sort of prize at the end, at least not without a warning "There Will Be Cheese." But, I think it would be fun to have a 'just for fun' 500pt gaming night, where you could bring the cheese or take the moral high ground.

Warbands is probably a better system for a 500pt league or tourney, though I think the rules should be updated some (the copy I was directed to recently still references the stupid roll for your general HE rule, and doesn't take into account their new army building limits and there are probably other points that could use updating).

Mercules
22-04-2009, 11:25
Yeah, we updated them for ourselves where I play. We didn't give the HE any additional Special/Rare slots for Warbands, but did make it so they only have to take 1 Core unit, instead of 2, which meant they could spend a tiny bit more on the Rare/Special slots.

Sam skywalker
22-04-2009, 19:00
I played a 500pts game the other day with lizardmen against empire...

Used an EotG and 2 x 10 units of skinks... Kicked ass... Lost 5 skinks in combat and thats it... (The unit needed double 1s not to break... Go skinks :D)

I also play chaos and 500pts kinda stops me taking chaos warriors and knights... So have to take marauders which are poop...

Keller
23-04-2009, 16:55
I played a 500pts game the other day with lizardmen against empire...

Used an EotG and 2 x 10 units of skinks... Kicked ass... Lost 5 skinks in combat and thats it... (The unit needed double 1s not to break... Go skinks :D)


That sounds like a very OTT list for 500 points.

whiskeytango
23-04-2009, 20:09
Used an EotG and 2 x 10 units of skinks... Kicked ass... Lost 5 skinks in combat and thats it... (The unit needed double 1s not to break... Go skinks :D)

wow... congratulations for your win... also for playing the most ridiculously cheezy list i can imagine at 500pts.

Seriously, EOTG is pretty OOT to bring to 1000pts, why would you bring one to 500? Do you enjoy having your lists win your games for you so you dont have to worry about the little things like generalship?

Papa JJ
23-04-2009, 21:47
I too have had a lot fun playing smaller battles as it allows me to get in a game without having to make much of a time commitment. For small games my prefered is 600 to 750 or so points. And when I do have extra time, I like to play one or two smaller games as a lead in to the full scale match. It's easy to come up with some simple carry-over effects from each battle if you like and for me it helps break up the routine of tournament-style butchery.

This is a Wood Elves 500 point list I've used recently:

Branchwraith
Dryads x 10
Dryads x 10
Treekin x 3

Total: 500 points

Best of luck to ya.
- Papa JJ

Phenatix
23-04-2009, 21:50
wow... congratulations for your win... also for playing the most ridiculously cheezy list i can imagine at 500pts.

Seriously, EOTG is pretty OOT to bring to 1000pts, why would you bring one to 500? Do you enjoy having your lists win your games for you so you dont have to worry about the little things like generalship?


Umm yes, that would be hilarious.. It's ok to forsake honor once in a while for laughs...

dijit80
24-04-2009, 08:22
We've recently had a month of 500pt warband games in order to introduce newer players to the game. It's been pretty good. We're now doing 1250pt games, slowly building up so everyone can keep up. 1250pts allows for some real cheese and wine parties - 3 DE/He mages anyone? So you've got to be a bit careful - thankfully though no one is playing daemons or VC.

Crube
24-04-2009, 10:35
I'm looking at these 500point lists as a jumping off point for later expansion...

So the comments about 750 being better, I take on board, and that's going to be phase 2 :)

Keller
24-04-2009, 12:22
These lower-point lists are a great way to start playing new armies, or to encourage you to get a few new units in to add flexibility to your existing army, in terms of units you normally don't use in conjunction with what you have. And best of all, you don't have to buy all that stuff at once, so you might keep up with the painting (if you're like me, anyway.)

Its been a while since I have played such small point games. I think I will talk to the local shop and see about organizing a new league for small points to try to get some new players started. And if I happen to start painting up my Dogs of War, all the better :)

Mercules
24-04-2009, 14:10
I'm looking at these 500point lists as a jumping off point for later expansion...

So the comments about 750 being better, I take on board, and that's going to be phase 2 :)

750 is a fun upgrade from the 500 points battles. You usually end up filling out the units you started in the Warbands. Often you get to add something like a Chariot or war machine.

Cats Laughing
25-04-2009, 00:53
We've recently had a month of 500pt warband games in order to introduce newer players to the game. It's been pretty good. We're now doing 1250pt games, slowly building up so everyone can keep up. 1250pts allows for some real cheese and wine parties - 3 DE/He mages anyone? So you've got to be a bit careful - thankfully though no one is playing daemons or VC.

Well, you can bring the 3 HE mages at 1000, or even 750 (though then you probably don't have more than 1 RBT in support, at 1k you can bring 2 RBTs and your manadatory core and the 2 L2 Mages with ~50 magic item points each)

Might be good to warn everyone in advance about the possible cheese at this level, or warn people not to go all out, depending on your player base.

sid13
25-04-2009, 19:32
i think it'd be interesting to try using some medium cav. at those points. Always kind of ignore those options for shields on things like dark riders and marauder horsemen, right?