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View Full Version : Which legion to pick?



Prokrustes
03-04-2009, 14:12
To sum it up quick: I am starting a csm army and I am pretty much a fluff nut.
Therefore IŽd like to play something fluffy or mostly at least and stay away from mixing cult troops and such. However, I would consider mixing Icons with an undivided champion or so.. Well I am pretty much torn between a bunch of them and need help picking one so that I can finally start the army. Yeah, well, Sons of Malice arent a legion but I somehow still like them.
Any help is appreciated, mostly if you can comment your vote.

Sister_Sin
03-04-2009, 14:28
Thousand Sons are pretty nifty and have some very good background. And I like the Egyptian thing they have going on. Sons of Malice would be nifty too.

Sister Sin

Raven1
03-04-2009, 14:32
Im a big fan of the Iron Warriors. Before GW decided that different rules for different legions was too hard (though apparently not too hard for the Emperor's lapdogs...grumble grumble), they had some neat rules. The fluff is nice, and they have a few books centered around them from black library like, Storm of Iron.

Acheron,Bringer of Terror
03-04-2009, 14:33
Sons of Malice. Great paintjob, and the joy :!

Captain Micha
03-04-2009, 14:46
I've always liked the Thousand Sons myself.

sabreu
03-04-2009, 14:49
I vote for word bearers!

Hypaspist
03-04-2009, 14:51
I am another Thousand Sons Lover, they are going to be my CSM Army project over the coming 12 months. Choose them, you know you want big Egyptian Kartouch style helmets.... :)

Deadmanwade
03-04-2009, 15:03
Given that its possible to field an army of units with the same mark (khorne, tzeentch etc) and cult troops are readily available (bezerkers, noise marines etc) how is it that you cant play as specific legions? Ok, Iron Warriors may not get 4 heavy choices with imperial guard tanks anymore and Word Bearers may not get chaplains, but I cannot see what the problem is. Its like saying that because space marines dont get Salamander specific troops choices that they can only play as Ultramarines.

Anyway, I voted Word Bearers, just use a sorceror for the chaplian/dark apostle. Lash of Submission is a great game usage for his evil charisma and commanding presence.

Vedar
03-04-2009, 18:23
Well you are going to have most people vote the army they play, which is not going to help you. You picked one non-Legion army so you must already like them. I voted you go for that. Also I have never seen a Sons of Malice army and it would be cool if I did.

I know you said you want fluff but I'm going to give you a quick competitive rundown anyway.

Thousand Sons- They look cool, but the point cost and limited range hurt them. AP3 Bolters are not that great in 5th with all the cover saves. Power gamers do not play Thousand Son lists for a reason, they are not a power gamer list. I like Tzeentch Daemon princes though as the do quite well.

Emperors Children-Again Noise marines are pricey, but in 5th more shots are better and nosie marines get more shots. Lash Deamon Prince is quite effective -(cue the groaning..). EC can be a competitive list but being pricey the list will be small. Icons for Slaanesh are cheap so you could get normal marines with Slaanesh icon to beef up your army.

Word Bearers-unfortunatly WB are all about daemons and daemons are some of the poorer choices for Chaos. The Greater Daemon is ok, but the lesser daemons have limited use for almost the cost of a marine. Lesser daemons random deep strike from Icons so if you are playing fluffy you will need them and they don't work very well. You can make a competitive list and a good looking army but most people are not thrilled with the Lesser daemons.

Iron Warriors- Ah the best Chaos Legion! kidding. Fluffy means no lesser daemons and lots of heavy weapons. Obliterators and Daemon Princes are very fluffy with Iron Warriors. The bad side is last Codex they were deemed "broken" and even though most of the power gamers have moved on, people still tend to knee jerk and randomly screem out "cheese!" even when Iron Warriors shoot bolt pistols.

Sons of Malice-Not a lot is known about them so you can play them as you like and with a non Legion army you will not run into many other armies the same. Also they do look cool though painting them might take a bit longer then the others.

LonelyPath
03-04-2009, 21:22
I've always love the Emperor's Children. But then, Slaanesh swallowed my soul years ago and I gotta do everything he/she/it tells me too :D I really need to get another EC army together again. I miss playing them :(

Fire Harte
03-04-2009, 22:30
I suggest the [Microsoft]Word Bearers. They are pretty badass in their own way.

Vaktathi
03-04-2009, 22:33
Iron Within, Iron Without.

it's coming this way!
03-04-2009, 22:49
The Word Bearers have always been my favorite, so I voted for them

But I'm coming from a cool fluff/modeling potential standpoint, gaming-wise, I dunno, an army that is fluff-obligated to take a ton of mediocre daemons might not make for SUCH a great list.

Chaos Undecided
03-04-2009, 22:58
From your brief outline of what you had in mind I'd suggest going with the Sons of Malice if you like the color scheme after all its pretty much a blank canvas to how you develop your force outside of that your free to mix and match icons as you see fit.

Of the two non power specific legions you mentioned the Word Bearers are generally noted as worshipping Chaos as a pantheon rather than devoting themselves to specific gods and with the Iron Warriors other than a proportion of their force devoted to Khorne that has been mentioned in their old index astartes entry and the BL Library they never come across as particularly worshipping the gods.

R Man
03-04-2009, 23:13
I guess it depends on how you want to play as to which you should choose.
Khorne if you favour direct attacks, Nurgle if you want to grind down your opponents. Slaanesh can be useful if you like to go from defense to attack quickly and Tzeentch is good if you like psyker powers such as mutating people. I can't speak for the Sons of Malice though.

Don't be afraid to use icons, depending on what you want out of your army.
The Icon of Undivided (Glory) is cheap and very good to resist getting run down or pinned. Useful for any unit.
The Icon of Khorne is also useful on most troops, but especially fast troops (fitting for Khorne). Plus Berserkers are excelent cult troops.
Slaanesh isn't quite as alround useful as the Khorne Icon, but I5 is good against Marines, sometimes Eldar and escaping from Sweeping Advances. Plus its cheap. Noise Marines are a little frail, but are still effective.
Nurgle icons reduce the damage of weapons under S7 by 1/6th. Not too bad and can be a surprise for people relying on power weapons. But it is very expensive and only economical on large units of Infantry. Plauge Marines are excellent cult troops too.
Lastly Tzeentch. Unusual. The 5+ invulnerable save is not too good against shooting, as either cover or armour will supercead it. However in close combat it will reduce all (or most) save ignoring attacks by 1/3. Not too bad and will suffer less against power swords and fist, but very situational. Probably a tad too expensive to make a list out of but one or two units can be useful. Thousand sons can confound opponents by falling back and shooting, and their ward save. Generally they need to be used in the right situation to be effective.

So if you want a fast, mechinised force that hits hard in Close combat, go Khorne. If you'd prefer guning them down as they aproach, choose Nurgle. If you want to use mechinised or mobile troops to shoot choose Slaanesh. If you want to take your opponent by surpise use Tzeentch.

Brotheroracle
03-04-2009, 23:22
Given that its possible to field an army of units with the same mark (khorne, tzeentch etc) and cult troops are readily available (bezerkers, noise marines etc) how is it that you cant play as specific legions? Ok, Iron Warriors may not get 4 heavy choices with imperial guard tanks anymore and Word Bearers may not get chaplains, but I cannot see what the problem is. Its like saying that because space marines dont get Salamander specific troops choices that they can only play as Ultramarines.

Anyway, I voted Word Bearers, just use a sorceror for the chaplian/dark apostle. Lash of Submission is a great game usage for his evil charisma and commanding presence.

Well the main gripe is that we had these options and they took them away, and if you want to be fluffy your forced to take options that dont really represent what the army is, for example my force is alpha legion for 2 dex's I had nearly entire force that infiltrated and in the last dex I had cultists . And if he wants to play a fluffy word bearers force he cant take chaos marks period unless its undivided, he had a great system in the last dex to represent certain "unorthadox" chaos (funny I know) armies and spent money and time modeling them and now you can mix and match chaos marks willy nilly (I dont know why GW went back on years of restrictions and rules on how you can mix gods in your army not just in 40k but in fantasy too) Anyway where was I .... Oh yeah well seeing as Sons of Malice arnt common and the current dex reflects more of the renegades aspect

Axis
03-04-2009, 23:29
I voted for word bearers but it would be nice to see some iron warriors around again too. You can make fluffy lists of both.

R Man
03-04-2009, 23:32
I dont know why GW went back on years of restrictions and rules on how you can mix gods in your army not just in 40k but in fantasy too)

To make money? Or perhaps they were sick of stereotyping the legions? For Example:


And if he wants to play a fluffy word bearers force he cant take chaos marks period unless its undivided

So Word Bearers won't use cult troops? Some Word Bearer leaders will. Infact the Word Bearers would make a great 4 colours army (one of each cult unit). There is more to an army than units, what makes it is how they use the units. Word Bearers favour the use of troops and massed infantry over infiltration; while Black Legion will strike at a single point with great speed and force. Night lords will use speed and terror to raid the enemies weakest points while Iron Warriors will move up under cover of an artillery barrage and then assault the enemies ruined fortiifications.

Its not just the units you have; its how you use them.

totgeboren
04-04-2009, 00:13
fluff-wise, the Word Bearers follow the Book of Lorgar, and in that book it is stated that to praise one God before the others is heresy, and the punishment is death.

So no, the Word Bearers would not make a great 4 colour army, since the Word Bearers would just kill all the cult followers. ^^

On the other hand, I have a Word Bearer warband, and I use icons of Khorne, Tzeentch and Undivided.

I have taken some liberties with the fluff, and have a chaos lord (the Brother-Captain of the former company) as the leader, instead of a Dark Apostle.
I have two chaplains, one who leads my raptors, and one who leads my terminators. Both rule-wise work as a unit champion carrying an icon of Khorne (to represent the Litanies of Hate), and I have a Sorcerer, who rule-wise is represented by a unit champion with the icon of Tzeentch (to represent his psychic warding, like the SM power Force Dome).
My standard champions count-as carrying the Icon of Chaos Glory, to represent their experience and iron-strong faith.

Using count-as, the Chaos codex can be used to create quite fun armies.
And the Word Bearers are not all about daemons. I would say that cultists play a much bigger part in their fluff, but sadly, the rules for them are not official anymore (though there are great rules in the Chapter Approved 2004 book, which I often use.)

R Man
04-04-2009, 00:58
fluff-wise, the Word Bearers follow the Book of Lorgar, and in that book it is stated that to praise one God before the others is heresy, and the punishment is death.

So no, the Word Bearers would not make a great 4 colour army, since the Word Bearers would just kill all the cult followers. ^^

Those who follow the letter of Lorgar would, but remember, even in this world religous texts have a multitude of interperatations and many followers will simply ignore parts they don't like. Some warbands will take it literally, other in a general sense. Some leaders, those who are unscrupulus will just ignore it.

captainramoz
04-04-2009, 02:32
Sons of malice aren't even a legion i'll have vote night lords but as they aren't present i'll say thousand sons the look dawsome

tacoo
04-04-2009, 02:38
i love thousand sons fluff so i would say them. everytime i think about starting a CSM army, i know i would jusy buy all Thousand sons and convert them to be other stuff like havocs and the like. that and who doesnt love a unit with a 4+ invulnearable and the ability to eat MeQ's for breakfest (gotta love ap3)

tezdal
04-04-2009, 03:34
I'd go word bearers, not overly popular like the IW, lots of demons, dark disciple's etc, and cool fluff

A1TEC
04-04-2009, 03:48
Go with the Thousand Sons

They just look so cool

Ddraiglais
04-04-2009, 05:24
I'm an IW player, but I won't push you in that direction. A lot of how you decide should be on fluff and the paintjob. IW are easy to paint, but does boltgun with hazard stripes appeal to you? Fluff-wise the IW have two BL books dedicated to them, with promises for more. While not a legion, the Sons of Malice have a pretty cool fluff nod. You could expand that army with Skaven as mutants or traitor guard.

A lot of if boils down to how you like to play. The legion rules have gone away, but people should still play with their army's fluff in mind (at least IMO). Iron Warriors are notoriously gun heavy. That means lots of HS. If you go Apoc, then you could include lots of IG artillery. The IW would only use bezerkers as far as cult troops. You could model some new guns and counts as noise marines. You could use bionics and counts as plague marines. However, I wouldn't put noise marines or plague marines in an IW as is. I'd only do it as counts as.

Word Bearers only work in Apoc IMO. They need to have real daemons. Since GW took real daemons out of the codex, a WB army isn't what it use to be.

I'll let others argue for or against the other two legions. I've never been a big fan of the big four (except maybe WE). I've always liked Undivided armies.

Another thing to consider is that we've been all but promised a legion codex/ices. That won't happen for some time, but if they do come out, legions will have special rules again. That means IW will probably get something to make them more shooty. WB might get access to daemons. EC might get more sonic weapons. TS might get more spells. EC and TS might get access to their god specific daemons. Noone knows what rules will come with the new dex, but we can speculate based on the fluff of the armies.

Prokrustes
10-04-2009, 16:11
Well, first of all thanks for everybody for voting and thanks ALOT for your comments!
They proved extremly helpful, even more than reading tacticas and what not!!!

Now you voted Word Bearers...
Well, I do love the Word Bearers but as it is (and after checking some "WB-Lists" in the internet), I am not so sure if I should start them (no disrespect to Warseers opinion more a question of long term finance). The reason for this is, that as far as I see it, they would condense down to a list with a greater demon, lots of lesser demons,every vehicle being a demon machine with litany and many troopers with ICG and possessed, probably some spawn. So, after reading the current CSM tactica on warseer, I cant get rid of the feeling that I would build an army out of the worst stuff?Could they work out? I just cant get myself to mix and match with WB because then they would be the Black Legion wouldnt they?(In all honesty, its not the paintjob that I like about WB ;-) )
Yeah, well probably could live with having a sucky army with good fluff and looking cool, but given that demons have their own codex I doubt WB will ever be as cool as before even with a legion codex, because GW doesnt want overlapping stuff.

Now, how do you handle this problem?Loads of counts as stuff?Giving up on the fluff and going for power? And uhmm..I guess if its not WB I will go for IW, because I like them, they seem to be playable somehow fluffy without mix and match and have some cool conversion possibilities.
I would love to hear your opinion on that and thanks again for helping me so much.

Corax
10-04-2009, 17:05
Alpha Legion. I know they're not on the poll, but they're so crafty that not even Chaos knows what they're really up to.

Prokrustes
10-04-2009, 17:28
Since the poll is closed, I am open to every suggestion, as long as it is somehow reasonably playable with current C:CSM.

Havarel
10-04-2009, 17:28
I've always love the Emperor's Children. But then, Slaanesh swallowed my soul years ago and I gotta do everything he/she/it tells me too :D I really need to get another EC army together again. I miss playing them :(

Your not missing anything in this new codex. I ended up converting mine into a general chaos army; kept the colour scheme, rewrote the fluff but found slaanesh only to be boring now.

Mannimarco
10-04-2009, 17:31
why was there no love for the death guard? T5 and FNP to much?

sons of malice are great and always turn a few heads at the table, theyre not a common army so always stand out

oh and taking them allows you to go on about malal if anybody asks about them