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speedygogo
04-04-2009, 11:55
I was just reading the new incredibly vague rumor of the next army release and started to wonder what has brought the rumor forum to a point where new GW product releases have become so secretive. I feel that the hypercritical nature of us fans is somewhat to blame but so is our over enthusiam.

I've seen entire rule sets posted in the forums before a release in the forums. I can see how much of the selling of a new army results from its initial hype. It could be great for other members of warseer to post their ideas reguard how to find a happy medium for us gamers to get excited about a new product line without deflating the excitement of a new release.

My problem with the current incantation of warhammer is that only a handful of armies are competative, especially at a tournament level. Much of the success of these armies relies on complete cheese and no to minimal skill also, ie Daemons, and VC.

badgeraddict
04-04-2009, 12:40
My problem with the current incantation of warhammer is that only a handful of armies are competative, especially at a tournament level. Much of the success of these armies relies on complete cheese and no to minimal skill also, ie Daemons, and VC.

Think you mean 'incarnation.'

Anyway, I like all the hype and rumour-mongering that takes place before an army book is released. You can see the ideas that members would like to see within the new army books. Some good and some god awful.

I feel it adds to the game, discovering which of the rumours turned out to be true and the like.

Yet I can agree that some rumour threads on Warseer are really vague, take the recent thread of vague doom for example.

I still think that GW's way of developing an army on the quiet, is to leak 'false rumours' on the internet. Bet the developers have a good giggle at us arguing about the wrong rules.

:)

Tokamak
04-04-2009, 14:50
I was just reading the new incredibly vague rumor of the next army release and started to wonder what has brought the rumor forum to a point where new GW product releases have become so secretive. I feel that the hypercritical nature of us fans is somewhat to blame but so is our over enthusiam.

I've seen entire rule sets posted in the forums before a release in the forums. I can see how much of the selling of a new army results from its initial hype. It could be great for other members of warseer to post their ideas reguard how to find a happy medium for us gamers to get excited about a new product line without deflating the excitement of a new release.

What does the above have to do with:



My problem with the current incantation of warhammer is that only a handful of armies are competative, especially at a tournament level. Much of the success of these armies relies on complete cheese and no to minimal skill also, ie Daemons, and VC.

I can't really find a connection.

selone
04-04-2009, 15:12
I can't really find a connection with the rumour forum and rumours either. It seems to me to be just advertise your non GW product here ;)

sulla
04-04-2009, 22:20
I can't really find a connection with the rumour forum and rumours either. It seems to me to be just advertise your non GW product here ;) Well, without those alt model posts, it would probably be quite empty thses days...:D

As an aside, I quite like the alternate company sculpting posts. If they were buried in some non-GW forum, I would probably have never seen them.

MalusCalibur
04-04-2009, 22:43
Much of the success of these armies relies on complete cheese and no to minimal skill also, ie Daemons, and VC.

Maybe your time would be better spent finding ways to defeat Daemon/VC armies than whining about how 'broken' they are. Every army has powerful choices, and just because VC and Daemons are the current favourites to moan about doesn't mean they 'rely on cheese' and 'require no skill'.
Daemon and VC players (which includes myself, incidentally) would be fairly offended by your blanket and false statement.


MalusCalibur

Grimstonefire
04-04-2009, 23:20
I wouldn't be surprised at all if they have a good laugh about how little we know.

But in all seriousness I'm certain there are lots of GW staff on here who read what rumours are released. So the greater the depth of the rumours the fewer of them there will be in the future.

Sir Jimmison
05-04-2009, 00:25
I think GW let rumours slip so they can see how much we love the hobby, i think when they read these forums and see people arguing over a new codex's hero will be Ws6 or Ws7 they are laughing.

But in all seriousness we are a good source of info and GW staff and game developers use us so they can increase their profit margin because they are selling what we want :)

speedygogo
05-04-2009, 04:02
What does the above have to do with:



I can't really find a connection.


Two seperate thoughts that both contribute to a potential decline in the hobby. If people lose interest in the product the don't buy it for hoby reasons and if the game is increasingly unbalanced then then don't buy product for gaming reasons. Both points lead to less sales.

speedygogo
05-04-2009, 04:06
Maybe your time would be better spent finding ways to defeat Daemon/VC armies than whining about how 'broken' they are. Every army has powerful choices, and just because VC and Daemons are the current favorites to moan about doesn't mean they 'rely on cheese' and 'require no skill'.
Daemon and VC players (which includes myself, incidentally) would be fairly offended by your blanket and false statement.


MalusCalibur

Your are just wrong. I own and play all the armies in the warhammer fantasy universe. I am also a good player but not a great one. Daemon and VC are cheese list. Sure, a few other armies can bring cheese also but many cannot. If you are too blind to see that then you are offensive to me.

English 2000
05-04-2009, 05:01
Your are just wrong. I own and play all the armies in the warhammer fantasy universe. I am also a good player but not a great one. Daemon and VC are cheese list. Sure, a few other armies can bring cheese also but many cannot. If you are too blind to see that then you are offensive to me.

So anyone who does not agree with you is blind and offensive?

Care to enlighten us on what armies can't be cheesed out?

fyi - vamps really aren't that hard to beat if you know what you're doing. I can't comment on Daemons as I still haven't faced off against them.

Cypher, the Emperor
05-04-2009, 06:47
So anyone who does not agree with you is blind and offensive?

Care to enlighten us on what armies can't be cheesed out?

fyi - vamps really aren't that hard to beat if you know what you're doing. I can't comment on Daemons as I still haven't faced off against them.

Orcs and Goblins.


HEYOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

No this secretive crap with GW has got to end, look at their main competitor Privateer Press. They start releasing models and rules months before the books even hit shelves!

dsw1
05-04-2009, 09:13
fyi - vamps really aren't that hard to beat if you know what you're doing. I can't comment on Daemons as I still haven't faced off against them.

You are totally correct, if you know what you are doing then you should be fine, the same applies for daemons. I was a daemon player when they where first released and since I switched back to my beloved lizardmen I have had next to no trouble against them.


Two seperate thoughts that both contribute to a potential decline in the hobby. If people lose interest in the product the don't buy it for hoby reasons and if the game is increasingly unbalanced then then don't buy product for gaming reasons. Both points lead to less sales.

Your attitude is to negative, if you play daemons then you should know what to use against them. With your daemons, play a tournament play and see who wins. From this you will see where the strengths of the units and the weaknesses are and then once you know the weaknesses you are set to go.

Anyway, back to the thread:

I find the rumour mill can be quite fun at times, I mean it is nice to imagine how the army book will turn out. As others have said, I reckon that the GW staff who actually know laugh at the people like us who argue over whether the rumour is true or not, and I bet they have even more fun when the book is realised and people find out that what they suggested as a rumour wasn't true.

Harry
05-04-2009, 09:17
The new vagueness of rumours is a reaction to how specific some of the rumours were getting.

What has brought the rumour forum to this point?

It is a problem for GW when a complete army book or codex is scanned/photographed and uploaded to a site where it can be downloaded by anybody and everybody weeks/months before it is released. This is not rumour it is theft.

It is a problem for GW when a complete playtest list is posted on a forum weeks/months before the work is completed. there are all kinds of reasons why some things are left in and out of play test lists .... in order to 'test' things. The developers do not enjoy seeing fans upset, annoyed, excited, disappointed (pick anyone of the emotions expressed in a rumour thread) about stuff that is never going to happen.

It is still a problem when partial information gets out even when it is accurate and fans get upset, annoyed, excited, etc .... about a rule or change in isolation withouut being able to understand it in the context of the rest of the changes. (Although this is less of a problem).

It is a problem for GW when a photograph of a new sculpt gets posted on a forum weeks/months before it is due to be released because they are still trying to sell the stuff that has been released. it is not just about flogging stuff to Indys but about their own staff (who are fans too). They want them to be excited about the new stuff. Not have lost that initial buzz we all get about new stuff when we first see it. They don't want to loose that enthusiasm at store level. They don't want redshirts saying. 'Oh those, yes, those, yes, they made those a while ago but have you heard about THIS stuff that is on the way'.

Also they would like the first time folks see a mini to be a studio photograph, beautifully painted by on of the heavy metal team not some dodgy mobile phone photograph snapped in someones lunch break.

I won't get into NDA's ... I think I covered that on a recent thread.

They just want folks to focus on 'what's next' is all.

The problem is we have an insatiable appitite for new stuff. As soon as we have seen the new stuff we want to know what is next and whats next after that.

The other problem they have is that they now have such huge lead in times on projects (two years and more) that it is difficult to keep things quiet for that length of time.

Furthermore everyone who works for them are also fans and and as a result can not help but get excited about the new stuff so have to tell somebody ... who tells somebody else, who tells somebody else ...

... so I wouldn't worry about rumours drying up completely any time soon.

The odd snippet will always get out. :D

But

They are trying to tighten up on whole books being uploaded, PDFs being passed around and photographs of unreleased stuff making it onto the net .... and why shouldn't they?

They are trying to focus more on 'whats next' to keep the buzz and excitement about the new releases....and why wouldn't they?

The guys I feel sorry for are the studio guys (who are fans too) who don't get to talk when they meet the fans with enthusiasm about what they are in the middle of and most excited about but have to try and remember where their head was at over a year ago when they were working on a sculpt, painting, or book that is only now being released.

speedygogo
05-04-2009, 10:56
So anyone who does not agree with you is blind and offensive?

Care to enlighten us on what armies can't be cheesed out?

fyi - vamps really aren't that hard to beat if you know what you're doing. I can't comment on Daemons as I still haven't faced off against them.

I didn't say that. I voiced my opinion regarding the VC and daemons and the poster I was offending people who played those armies. I honestly don't care if I offend them. My opinion on those list remains the same and I certaining am not going to censor it.

Ogres, beasts, dwarves and orcs are harder to cheese. This is not rocket science just look at major tournament standings and see who is winning. VC, daemons and followed distantly by dark elves are placing the highest. The last three tourney's I've been to VC and Daemons make up at least half of the entries.

If every Daemon or VC army wasn't cheesed out the problem would be so bad. Most warhammer players are engaging in a cheezeball escalation fest and games are not fun but rather argumentative technicalities. Lists that are easily abused make this problem worse. At every gaming store in NM, we went from having at least 30 people who played warhammer fantasy regularly to 3-4 guys since Daemons and VC came out.

speedygogo
05-04-2009, 11:20
The new vagueness of rumours is a reaction to how specific some of the rumours were getting.

What has brought the rumour forum to this point?

It is a problem for GW when a complete army book or codex is scanned/photographed and uploaded to a site where it can be downloaded by anybody and everybody weeks/months before it is released. This is not rumour it is theft.

It is a problem for GW when a complete playtest list is posted on a forum weeks/months before the work is completed. there are all kinds of reasons why some things are left in and out of play test lists .... in order to 'test' things. The developers do not enjoy seeing fans upset, annoyed, excited, disappointed (pick anyone of the emotions expressed in a rumour thread) about stuff that is never going to happen.

It is still a problem when partial information gets out even when it is accurate and fans get upset, annoyed, excited, etc .... about a rule or change in isolation withouut being able to understand it in the context of the rest of the changes. (Although this is less of a problem).

It is a problem for GW when a photograph of a new sculpt gets posted on a forum weeks/months before it is due to be released because they are still trying to sell the stuff that has been released. it is not just about flogging stuff to Indys but about their own staff (who are fans too). They want them to be excited about the new stuff. Not have lost that initial buzz we all get about new stuff when we first see it. They don't want to loose that enthusiasm at store level. They don't want redshirts saying. 'Oh those, yes, those, yes, they made those a while ago but have you heard about THIS stuff that is on the way'.

Also they would like the first time folks see a mini to be a studio photograph, beautifully painted by on of the heavy metal team not some dodgy mobile phone photograph snapped in someones lunch break.

I won't get into NDA's ... I think I covered that on a recent thread.

They just want folks to focus on 'what's next' is all.

The problem is we have an insatiable appitite for new stuff. As soon as we have seen the new stuff we want to know what is next and whats next after that.

The other problem they have is that they now have such huge lead in times on projects (two years and more) that it is difficult to keep things quiet for that length of time.

Furthermore everyone who works for them are also fans and and as a result can not help but get excited about the new stuff so have to tell somebody ... who tells somebody else, who tells somebody else ...

... so I wouldn't worry about rumours drying up completely any time soon.

The odd snippet will always get out. :D

But

They are trying to tighten up on whole books being uploaded, PDFs being passed around and photographs of unreleased stuff making it onto the net .... and why shouldn't they?

They are trying to focus more on 'whats next' to keep the buzz and excitement about the new releases....and why wouldn't they?

The guys I feel sorry for are the studio guys (who are fans too) who don't get to talk when they meet the fans with enthusiasm about what they are in the middle of and most excited about but have to try and remember where their head was at over a year ago when they were working on a sculpt, painting, or book that is only now being released.

Thank you Harry for you frankness. I understand where GW is coming from. My point is this thread is that the fans are greatly responsible for creating problems in the hobby. I'm of the opinion that the overpowered books as of late are more a problem of GW catering to gamer requests rather than poor play testing. If the problem was poor play testing, why is the overpowering not present in previous books?, the SOC being the only exception to that.

For my part, I liked the models and the hobby and will continue to support GW. Playing games has become burdensome. There is an A**hat mentality that is growing amongst warhammer gamers. I can cheese out and list and beat a good percentage of them but I don't want to be that type of player. What got me into warhammer was it was a fun game and when I play I want my games to be fun not just for me but also for the person I game with. What people don't realize is that if you practice being an A** even in something as small as a game it will help you become one in real life.

I'm been a member of this sites forum for several years. There has never been more hypercritical people than now. Tons of people approach every aspect of the hobby as rules lawyers and it sucks. It is a case of fanatical stupidity.

On a related side note, I've met some really talented and cool people here also. I feel that those kind of gamers are becoming a minority.

Tokamak
05-04-2009, 11:25
If you are too blind to see that then you are offensive to me.

So what?


I can't really find a connection with the rumour forum and rumours either. It seems to me to be just advertise your non GW product here

Yeah I can only agree with that. I would love to see non-gw products get their own forum.

speedygogo
05-04-2009, 11:58
Harry, I wrote a business proposal last december to voice ideas I thought could help GW marketing. Could you PM me an email address to sent it to?

Mireadur
05-04-2009, 13:11
If the problem was poor play testing, why is the overpowering not present in previous books?, the SOC being the only exception to that.



I believe SoC just proves its about the game developers more than the company. At least in what comes to Gav Thorpe, i feel he had so much weight in the company that he could enjoy a good degree of independency in the designing of rules (after all how many know better the WH world than him).

About Matt ward.. im not sure how long he's been around, but i believe he co-worked 1st with Anthony Reynolds for the wood elves, later on he was given O&G 7th ed where his work shows how much he stayed under GW directives. I guess he satisfied the company so much since they ended giving him DoC and space marines where he could finally go wild (unfortunately for the community).

Of course, maybe its just me that prefer to blame on the people whose name appears with the big letters rather than the company itlsef :p

I know that in many articles and investigations the person whose name appears the 1st often hasnt even worked at all on it, but i have my doubts this would happen with an armybook.. Gav's ideas look so genuine, i couldnt believe someone else would be the responsible of them.

DISCLAIMER: Total speculation, feel free to enlighten me with reality :p

GodlessM
05-04-2009, 13:27
If every Daemon or VC army wasn't cheesed out the problem would be so bad. Most warhammer players are engaging in a cheezeball escalation fest and games are not fun but rather argumentative technicalities. Lists that are easily abused make this problem worse. At every gaming store in NM, we went from having at least 30 people who played warhammer fantasy regularly to 3-4 guys since Daemons and VC came out.

Earlier on you were blaming GW, now you've turned the blame, though at the same time, you are correct this time around, the player's are the reason the community is going down the drain the last few months.

But Daemons and VC aren't that hard to beat when you know how to beat them. I recently massacred a GT style DoC army with my WoC, an army book that is considered by most under powered and one dimensional. The problem that arises when you complain so much about how broken they are is that you cloud the opportunity for yourself to come up with a way of beating them as you spend your time instead on moaning. A few months ago I would have said you were right about Daemons, but now that people have had close to a year to adjust to them, there should be no reason to complain.

Mireadur
05-04-2009, 14:33
Defenders of Daemons not being overpowered seem to be missing the real point. Its more than obvious that you can also fall into cliches to make your own army succeed agaisnt DoC, VC, whatever. The point being made is that it is not fun at all to play that way.

GodlessM
05-04-2009, 14:35
Who said everybody falls into cliches and cheese top beat Daemons? I certainly don't and get on just fine against them, as do loads of other players here and elsewhere.

Neknoh
05-04-2009, 14:49
I feel this move of the rumour forum is actually a bad one, what happened to the actual rumours? We just had one "it's something new, something huge, introduced by an event bigger than the collapse of the polar gates, and it's an army in its own"... and it was closed because it did not contain enough viable information?

The forum is titled News and Rumours, not merely "news", what made the closing of the thread worse was that Harry, our all-knowing GW guru, actually put some slight information into it, nothing specific, just some sort of semi-confirmation. THAT was a proper rumour thread if you ask me.

I am not asking for whishlistery threads in the forum
Nor am I asking for threads going "wouldn't it be cool if"

I understand why those aren't there.

But a thread that was basically confirmed as a "true" rumour got closed because it was... a rumour?

Mireadur
05-04-2009, 14:52
Ahh such is the magic of those 3 armies you proudly show in your sig: They dont really need many cliches to perform well. Specially the one in the middle.


EDIT: on topic: i like this kind of rumours and their moral given by Harry, certainly we spend too much time dreaming of the things to come.. But this is maybe because we are never completely satisfied with the final products we are given: Some people find satisfaction with the number of times and easy wins they can get out of a book, others do from the good playability and variety of all the elements given in said book.. Hardly compatible and difficult to come by aspirations.

Anyway i believe the closed thread about the new army was an aprils fools thing neknoh.. Dont worry about it :p

Neknoh
05-04-2009, 15:08
Indeed, it does appear to be open now. Would've thought of aprils fools had it been closed on april first, however, it was april third.

Praise be to the mods, and whomever convinced them (themselves or other person) to reopen the thread again.

Deacon Bane
05-04-2009, 15:20
I think Harry is right in his points. However PDFs will be available after the release and people will get them anyways. I will admit to recieving PDFs, this is so I don't spend money on an AB that turns out to be S***. If I like the book then I will purchase it. Too many times in my youth did I spend money that I took a long time to earn, on a book that was not worth it. Or on a load of models, only to find out that a whole new line was being released a month later. So a little insider info can save heartache.

I realize GW is a business and are doing this for money, not so we gamers have a hobby. So I am going to let them in on a little secret, if you want to sell lots of merchandise, then make the people want to play with it. I wonder how many new OK, TK, or OnG armies are being started these days. I have looked into starting all of these armies over the past two years, but when I think of spending time and money on them, i just can't justify it. I don't play alot of friendly games because i don't live close to other players. So most games are in a tourney setting, and I would like to be a little bit competetive.

Harry
05-04-2009, 15:32
I feel this move of the rumour forum is actually a bad one, what happened to the actual rumours? We just had one "it's something new, something huge, introduced by an event bigger than the collapse of the polar gates, and it's an army in its own"... and it was closed because it did not contain enough viable information?

The forum is titled News and Rumours, not merely "news", what made the closing of the thread worse was that Harry, our all-knowing GW guru, actually put some slight information into it, nothing specific, just some sort of semi-confirmation. THAT was a proper rumour thread if you ask me.

I am not asking for whishlistery threads in the forum
Nor am I asking for threads going "wouldn't it be cool if"

I understand why those aren't there.

But a thread that was basically confirmed as a "true" rumour got closed because it was... a rumour?

That thread has been opened again for all of the right reasons.


Praise be to the mods, and whomever convinced them (themselves or other person) to reopen the thread again.
I might have had something to do with that.

I thought it was the best thread we have had in the Fantasy rumour section in months.

Neknoh
05-04-2009, 15:39
Indeed, allready commented on it both here and in the thread... now get back in there and help with the rumour mongering :p

Harry... is there EVER something you openly take credit for? Awesomely done by you, and my theory seemed proper then ^^

And I agree, it's the most awesome rumour thread we've had in months, I remember when it was like this for the OK release and similar, this kind of rumour thread is the one that makes me go to those forums, not "ok, here we have a list of releases" or "here's a bunch of new model greens", simply because there isn't anything fun about it, a pretty picture maybe, but really, it sucks the lust out of getting those pretty models. This results in me missing a lot of the better rumours as well.

But this... oh yes, THIS is an awesome rumour.

GodlessM
06-04-2009, 00:55
Ahh such is the magic of those 3 armies you proudly show in your sig: They dont really need many cliches to perform well. Specially the one in the middle.

Warriors of Chaos is far lower than many other armies in power level, and only medium tier at best. And the new Lizardmen are nothing to be in awe over.

Also, you can't assume from my signature that that's all I have played with, nor can you assume that I play hard and/or cliched lists with buckets of gorgonzola. I also play Empire and Wood Elves and have no problems facing Daemons with those either, I just haven't had time to edit my sig. But would you like to add those too to your "boy who cried broken" list?

Dexter099
06-04-2009, 01:25
Demons are overpowered thanks to their lack of their old special rules.

nosferatu1001
06-04-2009, 09:39
the other reason the rumours section is less...precise is due to the studio guy being let go - did it one too many times.

I'm sort of in the middle - i owuld love some rumour, but knowing everything about a book (or worse, knowing the old, play test rules) before release just spoils theat initial "present" moment for me. Witness the WotR vs new Guard codex - even shop members were banned from reading the book, to make them concentrate on WotR. Despite a new Guard codex being more exciting than WotR in probably most GW players eyes!

Mireadur
06-04-2009, 09:51
Warriors of Chaos is far lower than many other armies in power level, and only medium tier at best. And the new Lizardmen are nothing to be in awe over.

You know perfectly those 2 armies have the 2 main features to make them hard to beat: resilience and good magic. Specially when controlled by a competent player like you.



I also play Empire and Wood Elves and have no problems facing Daemons with those either, I just haven't had time to edit my sig. But would you like to add those too to your "boy who cried broken" list?


As an empire devotee i consider a personal insult The Empire isnt up there with the others :p

I have nothing to add to the original subject of this post so.. Its over for me about overpowerness or not guys (at least in this thread :p).

Isoulle
09-04-2009, 02:54
I understand the new focus on secrecy, and honestly it is the best choice business wise. But there are reasons people want information, like take my friend and I...

Me. You know what my favorite army is flavor wise? Chaos Dwarves. Yep, I'm one of those poor fools who loves the guys that will never get a book (Or at least not for a very, very, very long time). But I love fantasy and want to play an army. so I've been in a constant state of waiting. No army seems to have exactly what I wanted. Some have good models, some have good fluff, some have good rules but none gets me really motivated. I read the Liber Chaotica and finally decided on Chaos a while ago. Have a nice list, run some demons, some beasts, some mortals. It's be a fun mixed army with lots of cool models and themes... and then I wasn't allowed (I play CSM in 40k. I was not pleased about this in 40k either). Well there goes that plan. So basically I'm glued to the screen hoping an army comes out that has fluff I like, models I want to paint, and an army I want to play. I'm not going to spend money on an army until solid rumors or the army book comes out for a faction I can love. If I can get some rumors that get me exicted, I'll start collecting, start playing, etc. Therefore I'm constantly looking forward to the next book, the next release hoping that It'll be a release I can get behind.

You know, unless Chaos Dwarves are in the near future... A man can always dream...

My friend. He's a Skaven player. Loves the game, hates his army book. Honestly I can't blame him. The current Skaven book is really boring. So he's waiting for any word on the Skaven book to rekindle his interest because the army book he has demotivates him from playing and painting. He's in a state of flux waiting for some Skaven info to come along to get him excited. I check here every week hoping that there's some info stating that moulder, eshin, pestilence will be good and Skyre won't be the standard.

I know why GW does what it does but I'm sure you can understand where people like me and my friend are coming from.

Cypher, the Emperor
09-04-2009, 21:11
I had previously mentioned Privater Press, the makers of Warmachine and Hordes. But I want to expand on something I call the "Privateer Leak Effect" I've seen this for YEARS at my LGS and if GW would do the same thing it would be VERY beneficial to them.

Here's how it works.

~4 months or so before the new book is released, PP starts to post images of the new mini's on their website. Usually these are accompanied by one or two of the mini's getting their rules printed in the new edition of their magazine "No Quarter".

People rush into the LGS the very next day and begin to place preorders down on the new mini's and the new book.

This happens EVERY SINGLE TIME. When they posted the picture of the new unique Heavy Warbeast for Skorne (a Cyclopean fellow named Molik), despite that his rules had been released but his model was several months away. People started placing pre-orders the second they could (I did!).

If GW did this it would be amazing. Even if the army book was months away, people would still buy the new plastics if they came out ealier. Even if they didn't release the plastics, if they put up extensive pictures of a plastic Centigor kit on their site right now and then started taking pre-orders BAM! instant cash!

Why is this good for GW?

Because it gets people to buy mini's before their rules are released. Now this sounds underhanded, but what if the book came out and Centigors were overpriced or really sucked or something and no one wanted them. If they had started taking pre orders months in advance, they would already have guaranteed sales of a product that otherwise might not be a big mover.

Just a thought